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Kathryn

Turned down again

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Hi everybody

 

Just an update on our statutory assessment situation. After almost a week trying to squeeze the news out of them (they wouldn't tell us over the phone) we learned yesterday that our request for a statutory assessment has been turned down for the second time of asking.

 

The evidence provided shows that she does not have special educational needs, but is suffering from depression which has been increasing over the last 18 months. This has had a profound effect on her ability to engage with learning, but does not constitute a special educational need.

 

They go on to say that my daughter's needs are being met by home and hospital education. No mention of ASD. A completely different and contradictory reason from the one given last time: that the school hadn't done enough to support her and that they must contact the autism advisory service.

 

So there we are. Possible tribunal next year, more stress, and the hope that they won't throw the case out on the basis that my daughter is too old. :(:wallbash::angry:

 

K

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Hi Kathryn

 

I'm really sorry that they have done this. They refused a statement for my son until we went to tribunal, and then 2 days before the date they changed their mind.

And they still didn't address the AS. :shame:

 

How old is your daughter?

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Hi Beverley,

 

My daughter will be 16 in March, which is why the LEA are stalling things as much as they can: the longer they hold out, the weaker our case gets. Even if my daughter goes on to further education, it will be difficult to build a case for specialist post 16 support from the Learning and Skills Council without a statement. Connexions told me so.

 

K

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You know you are morally and legally in the right!

 

Don't give them the satisfaction of giving up now!!

 

We are all supporting you >:D<<'>

 

Bidxx

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Hi Carole,

 

No but the NAS are via their tribunal support scheme. I'm sending the case worker all the evidence we have so that she can decide whether we can build a good enough case for tribunal. My daughter will be past 16 by the time we get that far. :(

 

Should I contact IPSEA as well? I know they've shut down for the holidays.

 

Advice from anyone who's been through the process would be very welcome.

 

K

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Hi Kathryn,

 

My friend - who helps me run Sunderland AIM - is also a voluntary worker with IPSEA. I would be willing to run this past her if you like? She is very good and knows her stuff.

 

Carole

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Hi Kathryn,

 

I'm sorry to hear about their decision.

 

I don't know if you have already read the SEN Code of Practice (you can download it), but it may be worth quoting it to the LEA when you appeal. It states that:

 

Children have a learning difficulty if they:

 

a) Have a significantly greater difficulty in learning than the majority of children the same age.

 

The above statement refers to your daughter, they can't disagree with that.

 

Have you also got a copy of your LEA's criteria for making Stautory Assessments? My local LEA's criteria states that:

 

The pupil appears to have significant special educational needs. These may be:

 

1) significant learning difficulties

2) significant impairments, and/or

3) significant emotional and/or behavioural difficulties

 

I quoted the LEA's criteria, relating to my son on my second attempt and it seemed to work.

 

Sorry if i'm telling you stuff you already know,

 

Loulou

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Kathryn, >:D<<'>

 

I am so sorry Kathryn. This is an outrage.

 

They go on to say that my daughter's needs are being met by home and hospital education. No mention of ASD. A completely different and contradictory reason from the one given last time: that the school hadn't done enough to support her and that they must contact the autism advisory service.

 

I think it is shocking that there is no mention of ASD. You should seek advice and support from anyone you can think of. It's great that the NAS are looking at your case, they are IPSEA trained. Hopefully Carole will get some feedback for you.

 

I would try Disagreement Resolution, the tribunal will be happy to see that you have tried to negotiate. Both parties have to agree though and it may be the case that the LEA will refuse, which will not go down too well with the tribunal. It is worth a try though.

 

You could also try the Officer of the Minister for Education. You will find the information posted by Helen53 on this link.

Statement of Special Needs, Big thank you to Everyone

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.ph...wtopic=1256&hl=

 

Nellie >:D<<'>

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Hi Kathryn

 

I think that it is worth exploring and stating the reason for the depresssion. I would almost bet my life that it has been brought on by difficulties being experienced as a result of the poor management of her ASD by the educators.

 

Kathryn, try and stay strong - they have given reasons for not proceding and are interpreting the Code of Practice to suit themselves and their budget- you need to find a reason FOR proceding.

 

Everyone on this forum is behind you 100% and more!

 

I would try the Dfes as Nellie suggested - they may have a big stick that they can beat the LEA with.

 

Best wishes

 

Helen

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Kathryn,

 

Is there anything in the evidence from health to say that her depression and ASD are inter-related? If not, I would try to get evidence as soon as possible from someone with expertise in ASD. I would also make it clear that it should be treated as urgent. Health do not always understand the SEN process.

 

Nellie xx

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Thanks everyone, you are great :)

 

We realised early on when we first made our application that they would probably try to play the mental health card, so we made it explicit in all our evidence that her emotional problems were the result of her autism, or rather the mismanagement of her autism. I wrote lengthy pieces of evidence describing with examples how her ASD manifested itself in the school environment and in specific areas of the curriculum. I made sure every professional who saw her and wrote reports for us made the cause of her problems absoloutely clear: in fact they all asked me how best to word their reports. The professionals who saw her in May and October respectively are both eminent and well respected in the field of ASD. Both of them wrote strongly worded and detailed reports stating where the school was failing to meet her needs. I have been back through the evidence and I fail to see how they can come to the "depression only" conclusion from what we gave them. I suppose they have picked up on the fact that she is out of school because she is mentally and emotionally incapable of being there, and selectively ignored the rest. (I haven't yet seen what the school put in as evidence though).

 

re: disagreement resolution, the NAS advisor thinks that this is a waste of time at this stage: it rarely works and will be used as a further delaying tactic when time is already of the essence. I take your point though, Nellie, about being seen to cooperate so I'm not sure what to do about this. We have a few days to think about it at least.

 

We have been referred to an assessment centre where we will hopefully get ASD specific support and therapy, which we havent had up to now, so that will hopefully produce more expert evidence. The trouble is that her health problems are very much apparent at the moment, in her present state, with a deep aversion to anything that reminds her of school and very little spoken language, playing devil's advocate, the LEA could build a case for her being un-assessable.

 

Thanks for the COP quotes, lou lou, I will be taking my copy away with me over Christmas :wacko: and going through it with a highlighter.

 

K

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Kathryn,

 

Have you thought of contacting the professionals who assessed your daughter, to find out if they would be prepared to attend a tribunal to argue your daughter's case?

 

It may be that once your LEA realises how determined you are, in having those professionals to support you at a possible tribunal, the LEA could re-consider its position and agree to an assessment.

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Kathryn,

 

Like everyone else I am so sorry that this has happened.

 

The assessment centre sounds as if it could be really helpful. My son was assesed by a team which I found really useful. The reports made it quite clear that his emotional difficulties were in the context of his Autistic Spectrum Disorder - that was really music to my ears and as they were experts it could

not be disputed even by the LEA. :dance:

 

All the best

 

Sam

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Hi Kathryn -

Wouldn't life be simple if every diagnosis of autism generated a statement? Even at the highest functioning levels I think the social, emotional and psychological implications would imply that some sort of additional support is likely to be necessary. The problem seems to be that special educational need implies a learning difficulty, which is not necessarily the case, the difficulty can be one of access to learning, or focus or all sorts of other things...

Thinking about DLA, changes had to be made to challenge perceptions of the nature of disability (it being a 'state of mind' rather than a purely physical impediment) before people with 'higher functioning' ASD's were supported appropriately, and I think a similar sort of shift in perspective is needed in education.

The Code of Practice does address these issues, but addresses them vaguely...

From the information you've presented it seems clear that your daughter does have a significantly greater difficulty in learning than the majority of children the same age and that she appears to have significant emotional and/or behavioural difficulties It's just that she's not 'presenting' these problems in the way that they're used to interpreting them.

Keep at it - you'll get there, I'm sure.

Save it for the New Year now, though, (other than in terms of registering an appeal before any deadline) and have a wonderful Christmas...

L&P

BD

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Thanks again, everybody >:D<<'> for all your comments, links and advice. I'm going to stow it all away for the next 4 days and try not to think about it. I'm going away, so that should make it easier. I'll come back (hopefully) refreshed and ready for the next stage..

 

And anyway tomorrow (24th) is my birthday, :thumbs: and I don't intend to spend it reading the COP.

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Thanks Nellie,

 

I see that whilst my back was turned, 'tomorrow' has now become 'today'. :unsure::rolleyes::D Too late (or early ? ) to crack open the champagne though. I'll look forward to that later. :)

 

You have a wonderful Christmas too and I hope Santa brings you everything on your list.

 

Off now to find out how old I am...

 

K

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Thanks Helen, Waccoe,

 

I've had one glass so far (can't arrive at the crib service too sloshed :P ) .

 

Waccoe - wish I had my youth as well ;)

 

Happy Christmas to you both

 

love K

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Hi Kathryn,

 

it is nearly the end of your birthday - I have been out most of the day -

 

Happy Birthday for today.

 

Have a wonderful Christmas and just put your mind in neutral for a few days and regain your strength

 

Jordan and I had a Reiki session today - wonderful!!!- funny, he can never remember what he talked about during his session nor how relaxed he was. We were at the shop and centre for over two hours and he did not get agitated at all - he was very comfortable with the people coming into the place, although they are strangers, but it was a different story when we delivered cards to friends and acquaintances, he refused to get out of the car.

 

try and have a veyr peaceful few days.

 

Love and warm fuzzies

 

 

Helen

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Just managed this by the skin of my teeth - Happy Birthday - well what is left of it.

We have Matthew lying flat out with a temperature, sore throat and very nasty cough. I think we are in for a rough night.

 

Hope you had a good day and are nice and Merry - well it is Christmas :lol:

 

Carole

Edited by carole

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Sorry Kathryn,

mixed you up with different Katherine !!

Youth, it's an overrated quality isn't it ? Am just repeating what I was told on reaching 40, I still don't believe it. I'm no smarter or wiser or patient these days, just more knackered !

Hope you had a good b'day however 'old' you were (you don't have to tell!) it must have been really fun as a child having celebrations 2 days running, or did lots of people try to combine the two ?

very wise not to overdo the champagne before a crib service, the hiccuphing is a bit embarrassing !!

Cheers, and merry xmas !

He's been !!!!

 

wac

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Thanks for the wishes everyone >:D<<'> I have just got back from relaxing Christmas break in the wilds of Sussex. :)

 

My birthday went well, despite spending the evening wrapping Christmas presents as I always seem to do :wacko: .

 

Waccoe, people always gave me two lots of celebrations and presents when I was younger - I would never have accepted anything less :devil: Now I'm older some people try to get away with submerging my birthday in the Christmas melee, and even (horrors) wrap my birthday presents in Christmas paper. :o:wacko: which is totally UNACCEPTABLE :devil:

 

As to my age, you have as much chance of discovering it as finding the answer to life, the universe and everything. ;)

 

K

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