My driving instructor has dumped me

[trekster]

Hello

 

My driving instructor phoned me today out of the blue (after agreeing to see me next Wednesday)

to cancel me as one of his clients. He works for a driving school and is aware im autistic.

 

He told me he was "reducing his hours" but didn't give a straight answer as to how many hours that would be.

He is supposed to understand autism so why cancel an autistic client when he knows

"autistics are unable to cope with unexpected events"?

 

He started comparing the situation to "being run under a bus tomorrow and so unable to teach me". How is that

related to a grey area of "im reducing my hours and have to choose which clients i cant teach".

He also compared my situation (of being dumped by my driving instructor) to others (which aren't autisitc and could find another instructor easier than me).

He is supposed to teach disabled people how to drive and he has taught other autistics in the past.

 

Just before November i decided to postpone my driving lessons until Jan 4th. He went away on holiday (after agreeing to phone me on the 2nd Jan)

and so neither rung me as promised neither let me know he couldn't ring me. He normally tells me hes got holidays booked but this one was

"unexpectedly extended".

 

His reason for reducing his hours is very vague (family problems and hes entitled not to tell me, i didn't say he wasn't entitled to keep it from me).

i mentioned reasonable adjustments of keeping me on (i haven't been abusive, threatening or anything similar to him) as im unable to cope with

sudden unexpected changes (hes not retiring so could keep me on) but he didn't say anything supportive.

 

He kept pushing me for a straight answer about getting permission for someone to ring me from the Nailsea area. But he couldn't give me a straight answer to the question "is he autistic friendly?" Also referred me to another centre, basically passing the buck and trying to ease his guilt about having to get rid of me. i get the feeling my mental health problems were too much for him to deal with which is the real reason for getting rid of me.

 

Im considering making a complaint under the DDA about him since he took me on knowing full well that autistics cannot cope with "sudden unexpected

changes". Could this be considered against the DDA? Since it was possible to keep me on (reducing ones hours is different from retiring) if he really understood autistics. Im also considering reporting him to the NAS as "don't go with this company they don't understand autistics inabilities to cope with change".

 

Alexis

 

Edited January 6, 2010 by trekster

[Tally]

I'm sorry this has happened. He has been unreliable recently and has not maintained good communication with you. It is very annoying when people do this, but sometimes there are very good reasons. Maybe he did not take your phone number on holiday with him and could not access it until he got home. He may be struggling with some unexpected circumstances himself.

 

Being run over by a bus is comparable to his personal problems in a way. Both are unexpected events which would prevent him from teaching you.

 

He has offered to refer you to an alternative instructor. I don't think this is necessarily anything to do with easing his guilt or passing the buck. You have told him it would be hard for you to find another instructor and he has tried to help you - you could say he has made a reasonable adjustment so that you can continue to receive driving lessons from his employer.

 

As for whether the new instructor is autistic friendly, I don't think it's easy to define what is autistic friendly since people with autism are all so different. It might be a good idea to speak to the new instructor yourself, maybe try a lesson or two with him, and make up your own mind.

[NobbyNobbs]

whether autistics can deal with suddent change is somewhat irrelevant, sometimes it is unavoidable. emergencies come up and people have to deal with them. unless you and he signed a contract that stated that he would not cancel appointments and that he would give you a certain number of lessons then i dont see that theres anything wrong with what he has done. he is the one losing money by ending his work with you. he certainly isn't required to give you details about his work pattern or justify his choices to you. you say you were booked to see him next wednesday... he has given you a full weeks notice which seems reasonable.

 

as Tally said it sounds like he was trying to help you by giving you the details of some other people who might be suitable. i would assume he has a fair number of clients and he can't be expected to know exact details of other instructors and match them up.

 

it seems he hasn't stopped teaching you because you have autism, he has stopped because he has had to reduce his hours and, given that you suspended your lessons for over 2 months, it is logical that he wants to keep on with the most reliable people. this would be particularly important during a family crisis when he needs to maximise his earnings during the reduced hours.

[trekster]

I'm sorry this has happened. He has been unreliable recently and has not maintained good communication with you. It is very annoying when people do this, but sometimes there are very good reasons. Maybe he did not take your phone number on holiday with him and could not access it until he got home. He may be struggling with some unexpected circumstances himself.

 

For some reason he thought that because i had texted him that he didn't need to ring me on the 2nd. But i didn't cancel the 2nd at all.

Being run over by a bus is comparable to his personal problems in a way. Both are unexpected events which would prevent him from teaching you.

 

i thought he was comparing being killed with being unable to teach me because of his vague family problems? Being run over by a bus is understandable as he wouldn't be physically able to drive. According to a friend of mine he was very unprofessional when he contacted me about this.

He has offered to refer you to an alternative instructor. I don't think this is necessarily anything to do with easing his guilt or passing the buck. You have told him it would be hard for you to find another instructor and he has tried to help you - you could say he has made a reasonable adjustment so that you can continue to receive driving lessons from his employer.

 

No it's not a reasonable adjustment since he's reducing his hours rather than retiring. He is aware that i take a long time to develop a rapport with the instructor and that continuity is important yet he still cancelled me. Reasonable adjustment would have been to keep me on as that would show awareness of autistic needs.

As for whether the new instructor is autistic friendly, I don't think it's easy to define what is autistic friendly since people with autism are all so different. It might be a good idea to speak to the new instructor yourself, maybe try a lesson or two with him, and make up your own mind.

 

Surely cancelling at the last minute frequently would mean "non autistic friendly instructor" which he was doing with me leading up to these events?

When i say autistic friendly i mean "able to comply with reasonable adjustments for the criterion for autism as set out in the autism alert card".

 

Also why text back "OK" to agreeing to a lesson then phone up the next day to cancel permanently? He asked me to phone back when i cancelled his call 3 times (hello i was on the other phone), then when i did he was engaged.......to his manager about me! i heard this from the bsm office. Im tempted to text him to ask "why did you ring your manager about me?"

 

Im so upset another kick in the teeth from people who claim they know what they're doing!

 

Alexis

 

[sesley]

actually its good to know its possible for people with ASD can get a driving licence and be able to drive,for my 10 year old. in the future.why not, old people drive, they even drive those scooters without needing insurence and licences,so a person like my person when he is ready is just as capable as long as he understands the rules. However, the thing about driving is that unexpected things do happen and you do have to be able to deal with the situations that,do arise,so this is a good learning curve for you,knowing that changes that are unexpected do happen,so go find your self someone else that will teach you and accept, i know its hard,but unexpected changes do happen,go with the situation rather than hold yourself back by it.

Edited January 6, 2010 by sesley

[trekster]

whether autistics can deal with sudden change is somewhat irrelevant,

 

Actually it's not since it;s part of our disability being unable to deal with "sudden changes or unexpected events". People who wish to work with autistics have to be aware of this. We were understandable when you had to leave university so please be understandable to my frightening situation.

sometimes it is unavoidable.

 

i accept that but he didn't accept i needed black and whiteness about this unexpected event. It didn't make sense to me and sounded like an excuse because he couldn't be bothered with working with me.

emergencies come up and people have to deal with them.

 

Why was he engaged to his manager talking about me when i rang back last night in that case? He was talking about me (the office told me this voluntarily today when i rang them up). He asked me to ring him back by text (i was engaged on the other line at the time), i texted back to say "when i have finished on the other phone will do". Then choose to discuss me with his manager whilst waiting for that call. Then confirmed he could see me next week (after speaking to his manager) when he couldn't. He lied to me because he wasn't open with me. i have enough trust issues as it is (due to my ptsd), i don't need people making up vague excuses to cover their own backs. He had the nerve to wish me "good luck" after behaving so unprofessionally on the phone to me. It wasn't what he said it was how he said it and before you ask no hes not autistic.

unless you and he signed a contract that stated that he would not cancel appointments

 

i have no idea what i signed with him if anything, it was so long ago now (i would have read it at the time, whether i could understand it would be another matter). i do have my bsm handbook which im going to look up to see if he has broken any of his terms and conditions. i will bring this up with his manager (since he isn't prepared to discuss it with me).

...that he would give you a certain number of lessons then i don't see that there's anything wrong with what he has done. he is the one losing money by ending his work with you. he certainly isn't required to give you details about his work pattern or justify his choices to you. you say you were booked to see him next Wednesday... he has given you a full weeks notice which seems reasonable.

 

Hes cancelling permanently the day after agreeing to a lesson next week. I've had 2 months off due to a bad cold at the beginning then severe mental health problems resulting afterwards.

as Tally said it sounds like he was trying to help you by giving you the details of some other people who might be suitable. i would assume he has a fair number of clients and he can't be expected to know exact details of other instructors and match them up.

 

He treated me like an NT not like a distressed autistic. It was as though i wasn't autistic and i was just a number to him not a valued client who had paid £500 for her lessons over the course of a number of months. i was very understanding when he couldn't manage 2 lessons a week as he kept being ill and even ordered replacement books for him when they ran out. Telling me something i am 100% unable to cope with then trying to help me go to someone else is patronising and condescending. "Never mind here's someone else to mess you around" was how it felt. We're not talking about other clients though and im wondering how the other autistic client is coping with this news. We are talking about autistic clients under his teaching (which is why i put the subject in "general discussion" instead of in the "off topic" section. This is an autistic issue and i would appreciate if it was kept on topic please.

it seems he hasn't stopped teaching you because you have autism, he has stopped because he has had to reduce his hours

 

He wouldn't tell me if he was teaching for less or more than 6 hours though (which is the amount required to teach both autistic clients). Also that proves i wasn't just thinking about myself. i'm not going to beleive his story unless i find out straight from his manager what went on. He was talking to his manager about me when i was trying to get through to him, i feel like hes gone behind my back because he doesn't have the guts to tell me to my face, typically behaviour of many people autistic and non autistic alike.

given that you suspended your lessons for over 2 months, it is logical that he wants to keep on with the most reliable people. this would be particularly important during a family crisis when he needs to maximise his earnings during the reduced hours.

 

Actually im not unreliable as i had severe depression at the time (which i will now add into my original post as it isn't clear). How is reducing the hours going to increase his earnings? he knows my situation but is unwilling to make reasonable adjustments for that situation (all disability related). To make matters worse the EHRC helpline has closed and only accepts emails.

 

Alexis

 

[trekster]

The software isn't allowing me to edit, so I'm adding in here......

 

I cancelled my lessons for 2 months due to severe mental health problems which im now almost over. i did tell him this at the time and he wished me well

but took a bit of negotiating to work out when best to ring me (2nd Jan we both agreed). If he had texted me on the 2nd to say "i will ring you when i get back as ive been unexpectedly delayed" even though it would have been last minute i would have accepted it. But i felt like he was ignoring me.

 

Alexis

[trekster]

actually its good to know its possible for people with ASD can get a driving licence and be able to drive,for my 10 year old. in the future. why not, old people drive, they even drive those scooters without needing insurance and licences, so a person like my person when he is ready is just as capable as long as he understands the rules.

 

We can get a licence but passing a test depends on the driving instructor and how professional they are with us. Old people do drive so i don't understand what you mean? i do get the rules just not what to expect from a driving instructor rules. So what i can expect at the moment is "i will cancel you and not give a reason when i feel like it". That i cannot cope with at all and no autistic should be expected to cope with that sort of distressing situation.

 

However, the thing about driving is that unexpected things do happen and you do have to be able to deal with the situations that,do arise,so this is a good learning curve for you,knowing that changes that are unexpected do happen,so go find your self someone else that will teach you and accept, i know its hard,but unexpected changes do happen,go with the situation rather than hold yourself back by it.

 

Actually it isn't as its an unrelated event, being able to deal with people cancelling on me for non autistic friendly reasons doesn't dictate whether i can drive or not. Please use a related example of how autistic respond to "vague reasons for cancelling something the day after they have agreed to see them a week later". Also make sure it relates to a physical skill that an autistic is likely to struggle with (and could affect their ability to obtain work).

 

All i can learn from this is driving instructors are untrustworthy and people aren't straight with me, which makes me wonder why i bother to try and interact with people at all. im very upset about this and i don't need a "you can learn from this" or a "there there attitude". i need empathy from someone who had a driving instructor who claimed to be autistic friendly but wasn't and then moved onto a more autistic friendly driving instructor.

 

So far no ones answered my question as what to do about the manner in which the driving instructor has treated me. If you wouldn't do anything about it please don't answer. i need something concrete, some ideas of what to say on Friday with this meeting.

 

Alexis

[Meethoss]

Alexis, what I would suggest is that you don't go in all gun's blazing as that probably won't help. You have to accept that if he's said he's no longer able to teach you then that will probably stand, and in fact if her were somehow forced to teach you he would probably not appreciate it and it would not help you pass your test.

 

Unexpected events like this will always happen in life, whether you have autistic related issues (or others) or not. As difficult as it may seem you simply have to learn to deal with these situations - I'm not saying "it's tough so deal with it", but what I am actually saying is that it will happen so you must find ways of coping with it should it happen; that's how I've gotten through many difficult situations, and that's why I cover up my issues so well. I tackle things head on. If something unnerves me I don't give up or shy away, I keep trying and I learn from every mistake and every feeling and that is what you must do - I feel that it's what everyone in our situation should do, not just say "Well I've got Asperger's so I can't do it" (and that is not a reflection on you, just generally the vibe I get sometimes on the forum).

 

As for your issue with the instructor, what I would do is mention to him what the issue is and maybe write a polite note to the driving school - try to help them understand what the situation is and how they may improve things in the future for yourself and others. What you don't want to do is upset them and then make life more difficult for yourself - there's a time for fighting and there's a time to just take it on the chin, to grin and bear it, especially when it's your interests that are affected.

 

I know you're annoyed and that you think it is unfair, and he's probably not been as communicative as he has been but he has given you some notice and tried to assist in your transition, and yes he may be keeping other students on but you do not know what their situation or why he's selected as he has done. Either way it's not going to help you so you need to let it wash over you and not let it affect your driving.

 

Good luck with your meeting and I hope you're able to find a new, reliable instructor that will help you pass your test.

[Kathryn]

Hi Alexis,

 

Your original question was whether you had a DDA claim against your instructor. I think it's unlikely to succeed. DDA claims are notoriously difficult to pursue and you have to have very strong evidence that your instructor treated you less favourably that other non disabled clients (how do you know he hasn't cancelled other people in the same way?) or that he failed to make reasonable adjustments for you. Since he has told you that the cancellation is due to family circumstances there appears to be no firm evidence to indicate otherwise.

 

I also think reporting him to the NAS on the basis that he hasn't behaved in an autistic friendly manner would be a disproportionate response. You've had lessons with him for a long time, so clearly you have been able to get along with him and have found him a competent instructor - is it realy fair to label him as not autism friendly?

 

I understand you're feeling upset and annoyed at being "dumped" and maybe you can explain your feelings to the manager with the hope of getting an apology for the miscommunication and the abrupt way your lessons were terminated. I'm not sure you can expect much more than that.

 

Whatever the outcome of any action you pursue though, you can't force this instructor to take you back and if you feel he does not want to teach you any more, would you want him back anyway? If your ultimate goal is still learning to drive it might be best to try and put the matter to rest, and find another driving school or instructor - perhaps someone can give you a recommendation via pm.

 

K x.

Edited January 6, 2010 by Kathryn

[JsMum]

Hi Alexis,

 

I couldnt go with a Driving School as I was aware that the driving instructers could be multipul and I cant cope with different people, so I searched for a Lady Driving Instructer and we had driving lessons for over a year, she was great, and we had a lot in common, sadly she did retire and I had to find another Driving Instrcuter, I searched for one that had qualitities to understand Anxious people and disabilities, finally I found one, he is really cool guy, we get on great, he understands when I forgot to cancel the indicater, or if I was too hesitant, we have really been on a really great journey together and after many fails in my test I passed just before christmas, I am now taking my Pass Plus, for me the real driving begins when your on your own, with no instructer, Ive completely been scared wits of some driving situations, Ive also been scared wits of other peoples driving, it maybe that a Driving school isnt compatable for your needs, I would strongly advise you to look at a Private Driving Instructer who can commit to sticking around for you.

 

My recommendations also is to really commit yourself to at least an hour a week driving lesson because having a break just for even a couple of weeks really does make it harder to go back to driving, so I would try as much as possible keep your driving consistant, that way you will get more use to the changes, you will eventually begin to cope with the changes in driving, but it is exhausting concentrating all the time, I understand how disapointed you are with your DI but by the sounds of it, your better off without him, start a fresh with a Private Driving Instructer.

 

JsMumxxxx

 

Edited January 6, 2010 by JsMum

[Tally]

i do get the rules just not what to expect from a driving instructor rules. So what i can expect at the moment is "i will cancel you and not give a reason when i feel like it".

This is true of anyone providing a service, they can always cancel without having to give you a reason. It doesn't mean they all will.

 

That i cannot cope with at all and no autistic should be expected to cope with that sort of distressing situation.

I don't agree. We all come across unexpected changes and sometimes they are unavoidable. I woke up this morning and the town was covered in snow and I couldn't do anything I planned. It was annoying, but I had no choice but to find a way to cope. You have no idea of your driving instructor's personal situation, so I don't think you're in a position to judge what he can and can't do as a result of it.

 

So far no ones answered my question as what to do about the manner in which the driving instructor has treated me. If you wouldn't do anything about it please don't answer.

Actually, your question was about whether your driving instructor has defied the DDA. You have had lots of opinions. I'm sorry that none of them were to your liking, but you can't ask a question and then ask people only to reply if they agree with you.

[NobbyNobbs]

Actually it's not since it;s part of our disability being unable to deal with "sudden changes or unexpected events". People who wish to work with autistics have to be aware of this. We were understandable when you had to leave university so please be understandable to my frightening situation.

 

i was due to have a session with my ASD support worker today. she called and cancelled because of the snow. this is a completely unpredictable situation and there is nothing she could do, but i'm not saying she is being unreasonable. equally, i expect her to understand if i need to cancel a session because of an emergency. as to the situation at university i did not post agressively about the situation, and it was a completely different circumstance. i fell it is completely unfair to bring that up with a claim i am not being understanding. i was simply replying to the comments you had made on this open forum.

 

Hes cancelling permanently the day after agreeing to a lesson next week. I've had 2 months off due to a bad cold at the beginning then severe mental health problems resulting afterwards.

you expected him to be understanding of your circumstances, but you are not willing to be understanding of his.

 

 

 

He wouldn't tell me if he was teaching for less or more than 6 hours though (which is the amount required to teach both autistic clients).

of course he wouldn't! he has no obligation to give you any personal details, justify his decisions or give you his work schedules, especially since he is no longer working with you. driving instructors are self-employed (even when they work under a company) and as such he can change his work hours at any point to anything. the only thing he has to do is meet his obligations to the company he works under.

 

i understand it is difficult to adjust to change, but if you feel that you are totally unable to cope with anything that doesn't follow the 'correct' path i would think driving would be incredible dangerous. what happens when someone jumps a light, or carves you up on the road? there is constant unpredictablity in life and its not practical to expect there to never be any change to deal with

[trekster]

methoss said

Alexis, what I would suggest is that you don't go in all gun's blazing as that probably won't help. You have to accept that if he's said he's no longer able to teach you then that will probably stand, and in fact if her were somehow forced to teach you he would probably not appreciate it and it would not help you pass your test.

 

trekster replied

That is something im determined to do, be a "im shaking and very upset about this situation" rather than a volcano!

Ahhhhh this annoying quoting rule is bugging me now!

 

Meethoss said

Unexpected events like this will always happen in life, whether you have autistic related issues (or others) or not. As difficult as it may seem you simply have to learn to deal with these situations

 

trekster replied

Please stop giving me the "its life type responses" they are not helping in fact they are further killing the little self confidence i have at present. Telling an autistic to "learn to deal with something" without teaching them (in this case at least) isn't helpful. Please keep it to the subject of autism instead of comparing what NT life is like to autistic life.

 

meethos said

- I'm not saying "it's tough so deal with it", but what I am actually saying is that it will happen so you must find ways of coping with it should it happen;

 

trekster reply

That is too vague for me to understand and is causing further mental distress to me. i am trying to deal with this unexpected event not unexpected events in general. You haven't used an example that fitted my criterion mentioned earlier. i will repeat it below as you seem to have forgotten it;

 

" Please use a related example of how autistic respond to "vague reasons for cancelling something the day after they have agreed to see them a week later". Also make sure it relates to a physical skill that an autistic is likely to struggle with (and could affect their ability to obtain work). "

ie a real life event you have experienced and how distressed you were about it at the time (this is 12 hours post event and im still upset about it).

 

methoos then wrote

that's how I've gotten through many difficult situations, and that's why I cover up my issues so well. I tackle things head on. If something unnerves me I don't give up or shy away, I keep trying and I learn from every mistake and every feeling and that is what you must do - I feel that it's what everyone in our situation should do, not just say "Well I've got Asperger's so I can't do it" (and that is not a reflection on you, just generally the vibe I get sometimes on the forum).

 

trekster reply

i can't learn from a mistake if i don't know what it is (who can), something i pointed out on the "not making the same mistake twice" thread earlier. No offence but you haven't seemed to cover up your issue here, since you didn't use a related example. im going to give up if i a) cannot get an apology over the way my instructor treated me on the phone today, or cannot convince him to change his mind (will accept a short break to sort out whichever event hes trying to sort out), or c) admits he dropped me as hes not autistic friendly and is prepared to retract that claim. Even if his manager deals with the situation satisfactory (taking along a uni mentor for a witness) that will be enough for me. i want to prevent this from happening to another distressed autistic again.

 

As for your issue with the instructor, what I would do is mention to him what the issue is and maybe write a polite note to the driving school - try to help them understand what the situation is and how they may improve things in the future for yourself and others. What you don't want to do is upset them and then make life more difficult for yourself - there's a time for fighting and there's a time to just take it on the chin, to grin and bear it, especially when it's your interests that are affected.

 

Im going to the meeting on Friday to talk to the manager. i will mention i am a very upset and distressed autistic who feels they have been treated unfairly by their driving instructor. i will also ask if he has any other instructors under his wing who would cancel an autistic under these circumstances. i will ask why my instructor wasnt honest and open with me and why he didn't accept my autism (kept using rhetorical questions even when i explained to him i couldn't recall the answer and drive at the same time).

 

How can i convince them of the situation when no replies on this board have been understanding in the 1st place? Actually if they are going to get upset that would be the fault of their company policy for claiming they could teach autistics when they obviously cant. i cannot control whether someone's going to be upset by my feedback or not never 100%. How will complaining make life more difficult for myself? i will have stuck up for myself in a constructive way (i hope) then mentioned the DDA (if the conversation doesn't go anywhere within about 30mins) and reasonable adjustments. i never take it on the chin as that would make me a walkover and im anything but that. No nonsense approach i have since too many people have messed me around in my life.

I know you're annoyed and that you think it is unfair,

 

Actually i know it is unfair, none of the members who've replied this year have agreed with me on that. it is unfair for a professional to be unprofessional with an autistic under and circumstances. If he couldn't communicate with me he should have waited for a better time to tell me ie not after agreeing to the next lesson.

he's probably not been as communicative as he has been

 

Actually according to some friends of mine (have discussed this situation with others) he has been unprofessional. Non autistics aren't allowed to be unprofessional and im 100% sure hes not autistic!

but he has given you some notice and tried to assist in your transition,

 

Assisting me in transition would take at least 4 months as it takes that long for me to get used to a new situation. Which is why i cant use the so called job coaching as they end too soon for me. He was pushing me to make a decision whether to have my private details passed onto a complete stranger! At least he didn't tell me "sorry this isn't what you didn't want to hear" that would have resulted in him being cut off after me saying "you claimed to be autistic friendly and you lied to me". You shouldn't claim to be autistic friendly if you haven't helped them when distressed.

yes he may be keeping other students on but you do not know what their situation or why he's selected as he has done.

 

That is part of the reason for my distress there are too many unknowns. i know he teaches physically disabled people so hes obviously gotten rid of ones he finds difficult. Reminds me of my school days when i was classed as naughty. im anything but naughty!

Either way it's not going to help you so you need to let it wash over you and not let it affect your driving.

 

Im not preventing it from washing over me. Your post has severely upset me showing 0 empathy towards my distress. i hate people giving me the "well that's life" or "just let it go" or obvious (apologies if they weren't obvious to you) responses to my complaints.

Good luck with your meeting and I hope you're able to find a new, reliable instructor that will help you pass your test.

 

Do you really mean that? You seem to be just telling me to toughen up, im waiting for the magic wand to enable me to do that!

 

Alexis (wondering why she bothered to post)

 

PS thanks for the lady who sent me some useful links on this subject.

[trekster]

Hi Alexis,

 

Your original question was whether you had a DDA claim against your instructor. I think it's unlikely to succeed. DDA claims are notoriously difficult to pursue and you have to have very strong evidence that your instructor treated you less favourably that other non disabled clients (how do you know he hasn't cancelled other people in the same way?) or that he failed to make reasonable adjustments for you. Since he has told you that the cancellation is due to family circumstances there appears to be no firm evidence to indicate otherwise.

 

i asked if it was a possibly route to explore not if it was likely to win (ive been told im unlikely to get things before but i still succeeded in obtaining a satisfactory result, the complaint about FGW for example). Im speaking about the "reasonable adjustments" not the "less favourably than other clients", as the reason why i was unable to cope with this unexpected change of heart was due to my ASD. i don't see any other disabilities having "unable to cope with sudden unexpected events or change" as part of the diagnostic criterion.

 

He was engaged to his manager at the same time as i was attempting to ring him back. When i phoned the company today i was told without asking "oh x rung yesterday to speak to his manager about you". Why clear something with the manager, then say "ok" to a driving lesson shortly afterwards. ive checked the times and they work out since he texted me 1 min before the office closed. Why say ok just to tel the person "not ok anything but" the next day?

 

Also he is "cutting down his hours" meaning "keeping certain clients but not others" and seems to have favoured others over me!

I also think reporting him to the NAS on the basis that he hasn't behaved in an autistic friendly manner would be a disproportionate response. You've had lessons with him for a long time, so clearly you have been able to get along with him and have found him a competent instructor - is it realy fair to label him as not autism friendly?

 

Yes as i have been struggling for sometime communicating with him. Also i am reporting him to the NAS (if i don't get anywhere on Friday) so they know that "if you cannot cope with your instructor telling you he can't teach you very suddenly don't go with (name of company)" Also if they cant cope with a vague instructor who agrees to phone someone then doesn't "because they contacted 1st" and doesn't apologise for it, then don't go with (name of company here).

I understand you're feeling upset and annoyed at being "dumped" and maybe you can explain your feelings to the manager with the hope of getting an apology for the miscommunication and the abrupt way your lessons were terminated. I'm not sure you can expect much more than that.

 

That would be something and thanks for the suggestion, i expect at least that from BSM.

Whatever the outcome of any action you pursue though, you can't force this instructor to take you back and if you feel he does not want to teach you any more, would you want him back anyway? If your ultimate goal is still learning to drive it might be best to try and put the matter to rest, and find another driving school or instructor - perhaps someone can give you a recommendation via pm.

 

K x.

 

i would like him to at least retract his "im autistic friendly claims", no autistic friendly person mentions "that's life" or is vague when talking to autistic customers. Once i have had them admit they handled the situation badly, are sorry and wont claim autistic awareness without proper training i can move on and try and find another instructor. Problem is what's the prevent the next instructor giving up on me in this way? Ironically as i mentioned originally i had a personal recommendation from a "more severe than me asperger" to prevent this situation that's happening now from occurring! i do things to make life easier for myself with preparation and then it goes pear shaped.

 

Alexis

 

[trekster]

Hi Alexis,

 

I couldnt go with a Driving School as I was aware that the driving instructors could be multiple and I cant cope with different people, so I searched for a Lady Driving Instructor and we had driving lessons for over a year, she was great, and we had a lot in common, sadly she did retire and I had to find another Driving Instituter, I searched for one that had qualities to understand Anxious people and disabilities, finally I found one, he is really cool guy, we get on great, he understands when I forgot to cancel the indicator, or if I was too hesitant, we have really been on a really great journey together and after many fails in my test I passed just before Christmas, I am now taking my Pass Plus, for me the real driving begins when your on your own, with no instructor, Ive completely been scared wits of some driving situations, Ive also been scared wits of other peoples driving, it maybe that a Driving school isn't compatible for your needs, I would strongly advise you to look at a Private Driving Instructor who can commit to sticking around for you.

 

Im pleased there is light at the end of the tunnel thanks for your support and hope.

My recommendations also is to really commit yourself to at least an hour a week driving lesson because having a break just for even a couple of weeks really does make it harder to go back to driving, so I would try as much as possible keep your driving consistent, that way you will get more use to the changes, you will eventually begin to cope with the changes in driving, but it is exhausting concentrating all the time, I understand how disappointed you are with your DI but by the sounds of it, your better off without him, start a fresh with a Private Driving Instructor.

 

JsMumxxxx

 

i understand that but the depression related anxiety was severely hindering my concentration at the time. i was becoming medically unfit to drive. i needed time off and driving in extremely cold weather could risk loosing my extremities due to my circulation disorder. Lessons were 2 hours long. Another person Pmd me to say he was being an idiot as well!

 

Alexis

 

[trekster]

This is true of anyone providing a service, they can always cancel without having to give you a reason. It doesn't mean they all will.

 

Ah so it is a service? In that case DDA rules can apply. A reasonable adjustment would be "not to cancel me suddenly due to the nature of my autism". Im definitely getting them to retract their claims of being autistic friendly. This is a permanent cancellation we're talking about though rather than a temporary one, so does it still apply? (going to read the terms and conditions of them).

I don't agree. We all come across unexpected changes and sometimes they are unavoidable. I woke up this morning and the town was covered in snow and I couldn't do anything I planned. It was annoying, but I had no choice but to find a way to cope. You have no idea of your driving instructor's personal situation, so I don't think you're in a position to judge what he can and can't do as a result of it.

 

i think i am considering hes breaking the DDA (you said so yourself hes providing a service and DDA covers services). He didn't mention the weather to me this morning when he rang, In fact he was very unprofessional about the situation. How does your situation of the change in the weather relate to my situation of trying to learn a practical skill that can help me find work? For the 3rd time use a related example or none at all. Also im asking about this situation not unexpected changes in general (which in fact hinders my ability to recover from this as every stupid situation is different)

 

Actually, your question was about whether your driving instructor has defied the DDA. You have had lots of opinions. I'm sorry that none of them were to your liking, but you can't ask a question and then ask people only to reply if they agree with you.

 

Ive had speculations from the members here, no ones has replied to my DDA question which was in the original post. As you have met me in person i expected more of you. i am very disappointed in your response i thought you of all people would understand.

i actually (if you properly read my posts) asked for those that would take 0 action to refrain from replying (as that possibility has been discounted).

 

The specific questions are now;

 

1, is he breaking the DDA for his reasons for cancelling me?

 

Evidence: He's had sustained incidents of unfair practice towards his methods of teaching me to drive which I've found extremely distressing but have kept up with it. i was aware transitioning into a new situation would be difficult and felt i had to educate him about my autism despite his claims of teaching autistics successfully in the past. One lesson he asked me "what my problem was" to which i told him "nothing personal and went into details" but that was in the middle of the lessons.

 

Last time i saw him i was about to take my theory test. The point of doing so now is what exactly? He was pushing me to book the theory test instead of asking if there was a problem booking the test and if i needed a hand with doing so. He never asked why i behaved in certain ways just treated me as though i was acting up whenever there was an issue.

 

2, what should i say in the meeting with his manager on Friday?

 

i understand not to swear or shout at the manager and to shake hands to begin the meeting. But apart from "im asking as a distressed autistic client (getting out my autism alert card) for you to help me resolve this situation. 'Instructor' has refused to teach me and his way of informing me (mentioning the details of speaking the obvious when i was upset, being purposefully vague and refusing to ease my distress, also pushing me to make a decision i was unable to make at the time) caused severe distress which i wouldn't expect from an autistic friendly instructor". i will ask him if there are autistic friendly instructors in his company that are specific with clients and wouldn't do what 'Instructor' has just done to me.

 

3, was he punishing me because my mental health difficulties were too much for him?

 

Answer most likely yes, "your too mentally unwell go away" he might of well have said to me.

 

Alexis (10 times more distressed than when she wrote the OP).

Please use related examples or i cant understand what you are talking about.

[trekster]

nobby wrote;

i was due to have a session with my ASD support worker today. she called and cancelled because of the snow. this is a completely unpredictable situation and there is nothing she could do, but i'm not saying she is being unreasonable. equally, i expect her to understand if i need to cancel a session because of an emergency. as to the situation at university i did not post aggressively about the situation, and it was a completely different circumstance. i fell it is completely unfair to bring that up with a claim i am not being understanding. i was simply replying to the comments you had made on this open forum.

 

trekster reply

Use a related example for the 4th time Unless it's a lesson for a practical skill that can enable you to get a job i cant see the relevance to your response. i fully accept the weather as a reason for cancellation (we wouldn't be having this conversation if 'instructor' had given "really severe weather conditions" as a reason).

 

She gave you a "black and white" reason my instructor didn't therefore not a related example (the distress is over the vagueness of the conversation and the manner of which a so called professional handled the situation). Apologies if i havent made that clear before now. Why bring it up (support worker and weather situation i mean) if it was a completely different circumstance? Which part of use a related example don't folk on here get?

i see you have later mentioned "i can understand how change can be difficult" this is what i would call understanding. Sympathy isn't being understanding and empathy is being understanding and im sure autistics are capable of that (this one is with situations shes been in or has witnessed herself).

 

i brought the university situation up as it was life changing and involved something that could enable you to find work. So it is 50% related in that respect. It wasn't intended to upset or distress you if that was your interpretation of the situation.

 

Which parts of that original post were aggressive and how should i have worded them? Be specific!

 

How is posting without using capitalisation or unproven accusations aggressive? Part of the autism alert card is "seems aggressive" therefore i am NOT aggressive as you are claiming i am being, now whose being unfair?

 

nobby nobbs wrote

you expected him to be understanding of your circumstances, but you are not willing to be understanding of his.

 

trekster reply

Who says anything about not being willing to be understanding. i am UNABLE to understand this grey area, many autistics in my situation would react the way i did. i think he is hiding behind this excuse and doesn't have the guts to admit hes not autistic friendly as he claimed to be in the 1st place.

 

He's breaking the DDA not me, therefore he's in the wrong not me here. The law states he has to make reasonable adjustments and as a driving instructor for disabled people he should know better. Transitioning me to a new instructor would be a reasonable adjustment. Telling me "its life" or "im not perfect" (i never expect people to be perfect) and comparing a grey area to a black and white one were abusive and that behaviour was not on!

 

How many autistics here wouldn't react this badly if their driving instructor phoned them up (out of the blue)

when they were

 

a) in a bout of severe depression

 

had workmen that had to interrupt the phone conversation

and

 

c) when the autistic had a sore throat

 

Don't forget he didn't apologise for not ringing me when agreed therefore i was understandably wary of him to begin with. Professionals are not allowed to get exasperated with customers hence the term professional. If he couldn't cope with that sort of work he shouldn't be a driving instructor. He shouldn't ring me if he's unable to deal with my autistic overload or be willing to discuss the issue which he gave up on too easily.

 

People give up on me too easily, they find me hard work and find someone else to deal with me passed around like a sack of spuds to the next willing helper. im fed up of being dumped in the naughty camp.

 

nobby nobbs

of course he wouldn't! he has no obligation to give you any personal details, justify his decisions or give you his work schedules, especially since he is no longer working with you. driving instructors are self-employed (even when they work under a company) and as such he can change his work hours at any point to anything. the only thing he has to do is meet his obligations to the company he works under.

 

trekster reply

That is offensive to point something out as though it is obvious. If i mention something then that means it is not obvious to me. That is not respecting my common sense deficits. He should have an obligation to justify his decision, (people expect me to do this in a non professional capacity) i believe he was lying to me i have a right to a straight answer from him after all he claims to be a Christian and those people never lie according to their rules!

 

nobby wrote

i understand it is difficult to adjust to change

 

trekster

Thank you for acknowledging that now were getting somewhere i think.

 

nobby

but if you feel that you are totally unable to cope with anything that doesn't follow the 'correct' path

 

trekster

i neither said nor implied that but you did mention if and this isn't the situation. i am beginning to wonder what's the point in going out, trying my best just to be (messed) on in the end? Sounds like my depression talking i know, i was almost recovered from my latest severe bout (nearly ended it at the end of November) but this 'news' has sent me right down again. It feels like being rejected from a job interview when you are told you didn't get an interview and they give you a load of excuses when you ring them up. Autistics are black and white and since it is part of our autism society needs to do something to help us deal with it. One of those things would be for my 'instructor' to receive autistic awareness training as it sounds like his could do with some updating.

My qualifications for judging him this way? 12 years voluntary work with the NAS (soon to be made official), 14 years post diagnosis, mountains of literature of the subject of autism, autistic friends from a variety of backgrounds, was told by a severe asperger that (his company) was autistic friendly. Hmm that's got me wondering i need a straight answer from my recommender, she wasn't diagnosed at the time of learning and might have recommended the company rather than the instructor (the company mentioned the only instructor whose autistic friendly).

 

nobby wrote

i would think driving would be incredible dangerous. what happens when someone jumps a light, or carves you up on the road? there is constant unpredictability in life and its not practical to expect there to never be any change to deal with

 

trekster

Not a related example, we are talking about coping with this change not change in general, i am getting upset as responses have been about change in general (have responded more constructively to the driving changes types of subjects). It is upsetting me when its drifting to "change in general" (which you are free to mention on another thread). im after answers to change of an instructor who dumps me for reasons i cannot cope with then treats me like anyone else instead of a distressed autistic ie abusively! Dyslexia has been 20 times worse today replying to these posts as i am so distressed by all of this. i get abused by my instructor and ask for help and get abused by members of this group who aren't keeping to the specifics of this change. ive lost count of the number of typos ive felt compelled to correct.

 

Where did i literally state i don't want anything to change? Im not unrealistic in that sense. i know change happens but i also know that autistic friendly people shouldn't make these claims if they cannot deal with autistics who respond negatively due to their autism! i would understand him dropping me if i had been physically abusive towards him but that hasn't been the case.

 

i am upset due to the manner of my instructor informing me out of the blue that he cannot teach me, nothing more nothing less 9except i think hes breaking the DDA and if i can prove it he wont get away with it).

 

In fact i am normally the most resilient person you could ever meet. Examples of my achievements include......

 

a, 7 years to pass my A levels (i did it and had a breakdown in the middle)

b, survived numerous suicide attempts and im determined to make it to feb as it would be 5 years since my last attempt.

c, almost 7 years to pass my Bphil in autism

d, getting this place (im not lucky by any means i just happened to have a social worker that knew Gran was getting a raw deal and did something about it)

e, successfully running short break caravan holidays for 10 years at least 2 a year, collecting money, writing plan getting us there and back finding stuff to do whilst away etc.

 

So to an extent i can cope with change but this situation was someone who didn't understand my inability to cope with "sudden unexpected change". i had 3 contributing factors, if instructor had rung and workmen weren't in and i was fit as a fiddle i would have reacted differently. They all happened at once and i became severely distressed on the phone to which the instructor gave me a "hard cheese" attitude.

 

in this case i am minding my own business then i get a call out of the blue saying "not teaching you anymore, that's life, im not perfect etc". (i never said he was perfect). He wasn't prepared to tell me the real reason why he's cancelling me (how do family problems relate to not being able to teach 2 autistics?) and i feel the family stuff was just a rouse. He told me his mum was sick a few months ago and i offered understanding "sorry about that Instructor is there anything i can do to help?"

 

Alexis

 

Ps i have replaced the name of my instructor with the word "instructor" to protect xyr identity i owe them that much.

[baddad]

Ah so it is a service? In that case DDA rules can apply. A reasonable adjustment would be "not to cancel me suddenly due to the nature of my autism".

 

No - for that to be a reasonable adjustment it would have to be the case that all autistic people would respond in the same way to having their service suddenly cancelled (or at the very least that it was reasonable to assume that a high majority of autistic people would respond in the same way). I do not think that a majority of autistic adults functioning at a level where driving lessons would be a possibility would be challenged in the same way that you were by a similar situation arising. You seem to be showing a great deal of 'lateral thinking' in the way you have interpreted his behaviour towards you and to look at all the angles that might or might not apply, so it would certainly be difficult to suggest, given that level of lateral thinking/understanding, you were 'unable to cope with sudden or unexpected events', which - while being part of the diagnostic criteria - is something generally regarded as a problem for people who lack exactly the kind of conceptual understanding you are demonstrating. It is, by the way, a diagnostic guideline - certainly not a rule, and given his assertion that he has successfully taught other autistics it was not something he was anticipating and (FWIW) is not something I've regularly encountered as a major problem in Higher Functioning autistic adults either in my professional career or as a 'private' support network for my son or autistic nephew or in my relationships with other autistic adults... Don't get me wrong - i'm not saying it couldn't be a factor for you (I couldn't possibly know), but unless there was some specific agreement made on that point in some sort of personal contract he entered into with you it certainly wouldn't stand up as a 'truism' for all autistic people that he should have predicted and made allowances for...

 

I don't know if they are 'related examples' but I've made them as clearly as I can. You do seem quite adept at spotting key points/issues in posts people have made so far, so hope you won't struggle too much

 

L&P

 

BD

 

Sorry - looking back through your post above i noticed a couple of other things:

 

people shouldn't make these claims if they cannot deal with autistics who respond negatively due to their autism!

How can you know that you respond the way you do 'due to your autism'? And how could he if his experience with other autistic people hasn't included people who respond in that way?

 

i get abused by my instructor and ask for help and get abused by members of this group who aren't keeping to the specifics of this change.

 

Without a complete transcipt of the conversation you had it would be impossible to make any sort of judgement about whether the instructor 'abused' you (though from what you've written IMO he has not) but certainly no one replying has 'abused' you in any way. It is not an 'abuse' to make general observations about aspects of autism that you yourself have raised, nor to disagree with you about your interpretation of events. That you perceive yourself as a victim does not make you a victim; that you perceive others as abusers does not make them abusers.

 

L&P

 

BD

 

 

Edited January 7, 2010 by baddad

[Kathryn]

Ive had speculations from the members here, no ones has replied to my DDA question which was in the original post. As you have met me in person i expected more of you. i am very disappointed in your response i thought you of all people would understand.

 

I think Tally does understand, and has given you a very honest, lucid and reasonable response, which you may not happen to agree with, but that's no reason to attack her.

 

I think you appear to have very unrealistic expectations of people and the world in general. If you go through life believing that people should be 100% tuned in to your needs and wants all the time, without making any allowances of your own in return, you're in for a lifetime of frustration, I fear.

 

I wish you luck with the meeting anyway and hope you get some kind of resolution to this which satisfies you and helps you move on.

 

K x

[Juno20]

Hi Alexis,

 

I can see how upsetting this situation must have been for you and it seems to be that your instructor has not been as profesional as he could have been, however as a self employed person your instructor has the right to pick and choose his customers, just like a builder can pick and choose which jobs he decides to take on. Sadly these choices have nothing to do with who deserves the work the most its all about making money.

 

As a driving instructor I do occasionally stop teaching certain people for varios reasons. Last summer I was extremely busy and couldn't fit everyone in and so had to let one or two pupils go. I chose which ones to let go based on which people had the most regular lessons as this made good business sence as they were least likely to cancel lessons that could have been taken up by other people. This is not to say that they were unreliable but simply less consistent with having regular weekly times. I also let people go who were unrelaiable if they had cancelled at short notice.

 

I am not saying that you were unrelaiable at all but if your instructor needed to cut back on pupils for personal reasons he will only think of himself in chooseing these pupils as he is running a business. He will need to consider what is the most sensible way to go, with regard to future profits and therefore will choose to keep pupils that have lots of regular lessons and not ones who may have a week off here and there because of health problems. He is perfectly within his rights to do this if he wishes and he doesn't have to give a reason why.

 

This may seem very harsh and i'm not saying that it is right but unfortunately it is the way most self employed people think as they cannot afford to be not working, especially if they only work part time.

 

You will be happy to know however that not all instructors are like this and if you can find someone who is an indipendant rather than with a big company like BSM they are far more likely to value you as a customer and should be more profesional as they want to keep you happy so that you will stay with them and hopefully recommend them to others.

 

My experience of instructors who work for big companies is that they don't try as hard and often can't find there own work so rely on the company finding them customers, I get quite a few learners that have had bad experiences with these big companies.

 

If you would like some help finding a suitable instructor in your area who is qualified in teaching people with disabilities then send me a PM and i'll get you some numbers to call, or if you prefer i can get them to call you.

 

Don't be put off by this one bad experence.

[KezT]

In answer to your original question, from a legal point of view if you came to see me I would say you don't have any hope whatsoever of bringing a case under DDA - it would be virtually impossible to show that he treated you less favourably BECAUSE of your autism. He could say he chose you because of your reliability, the day or time of your lesson, as a random selection, because he cut everyone whose name began with A-M etc etc etc....... Equally, he has made reasonable adjustments in the service he provides, on the simple basis that he ahs been providing it successfully for so long.

 

Regarding his dumping you and acting unprofessionally, it would be an idea to cut him some slack here - you don't know what his "personal circumstances" are, and he has not told you despite asking, which probably means they are difficult for him to talk about/come to terms with. It could be anything, but comparing it to being run over by a bus would make me think it is something pretty major! I have had a few really awful things happen to me which have impacted on my work once or twice. I felt awful enough about letting people down and trying to deal with my grief/stress/change in circumstances without having complaints made against me! In the end it is not going to help you or him, or anyone else, to make a big issue out of this. As has been said, use it as an experience, and find another instructor. Forcing him to take you back, or to think about you unfavourably is not going to make your life any better.

[Tally]

Alexis, I have met you in person, and the more I've got to know you, the more I like you. It doesn't mean I have to agree with everything you think, and I would not expect you to agree with everything I think either.

 

I understand that this is difficult for you. But I do not agree that the DDA applies in your situation. I think you will cause yourself stress by pursuing an official complaint, because I think you will put a lot of energy into a complaint which won't be upheld. I think that the best thing you could do in your meeting on Friday would be to ask for their advice on seeking a new instructor who is better suited to your needs.

 

You have no evidence that your mental health problems are the reason why he has decided he can no longer teach you. A driving instructor is not a person who would have to deal with your mental health problems. His only involvement with them have been that you decided to take a break from your lessons. His involvement has not been a close personal involvement and would not have been difficult for him to cope with. I don't think you would ever be able to prove your mental health problems influenced his decision in any way.

[cmuir]

Hi

 

I can't specifically comment on your instructor as I don't know exactly (only generally) what was said. All sorts of factors have to be taken into account when assessing whether someone is being rude or disrespectful (emails/text - not applicable), for example - tone of voice, what was actually said (sometimes, it not about what is said, but the way it is said), eye contact, body language, facial expression, etc. I know my son (he's 8 and has AS) struggles with all of that - he thinks everyone is being sarcastic (I think because he 'got it' once, but has now focussed on sarcasm). There can be all sorts of reasons why your instruction has called it a day with your lessons. Could be that he has genuine family reasons and has some appreciation for the fact that you need a routine, but cannot guarantee that he can commit to that. I know when my sister and I (we're twins) were taking driving lessons with the same instructor, my sister couldn't stand him, yet I got on really well with him (in fact, I used to get free lessons sometimes!). My sister stopped having lessons with him after 4, yet I continued and passed my test with him. Fact is, that some people don't 'gel' well together. It can be difficult to determine exact reasons, but we all have very different personalities - some people are very reserved and quiet, others are forthright and unreserved. It's not always necessary a criticism on either party when people don't 'gel' - guess (I see it as ...) being down to personal preference. I don't know if it's a personality issue with you and your instructor, but if it were, guess I'm trying to put you at ease by saying that it happens to us all.

 

BTW with what you have achieved. Hope you can find another instructor and add passing driving test to the list!

 

I know that some instructors offer discounts for block bookings. Might be an idea to book only one lesson and see how it goes before considering a block booking.

 

Best wishes.

 

Caroline.

[JeanneA]

Hi my husband used to be a driving instructor, he had his own business for a while and has worked for driving schools. He has had to let pupils go for various reasons, mainly like some else has already said, if he had too much work on he would let a couple of pupils go, it was unfortunate but this situation can arise. He would never treat anyone differently whether there were disabled or not. It is possible that this instruction was genuine and that the fact you are autistic has nothing to do with it. Hope all goes well tomorrow, let us know.

[Meethoss]

Do you really mean that? You seem to be just telling me to toughen up, im waiting for the magic wand to enable me to do that!

 

Alexis (wondering why she bothered to post)

 

Yes I really meant that - it was entirely genuine. And I feel that my post was honest and constructive, based upon real world situations. I tried my best to fulfil your requests in your questions and I tried my best to put them in an honest way that was not belittling or offensive. Your response, however, I feel was not considerate and, to be honest, was quite rude.

 

I and others have all tried our best to help you. Pretty much all our answers follow the same line, and none of them have been remotely abusive. I understand that you are upset but that is no reason to take it out on the people who are trying their very best to help you.

 

At the end of the day it is your decision as to what you do or say, but if you honestly feel that we are beating up on you then I would suggest that you follow your own route and see what comes of it. You can then assess the situation that this lands you in (whether that is a positive or negative situation) and compare to what we have said, and then use that as a lesson for the future.

 

I have absolutely no doubt that you will take this as me being horrible to you, but I can guarantee that my tone is simply one of shock (in response to your reply to me) and has no negative undertones what-so-ever.

[trekster]

Yes I really meant that - it was entirely genuine. I feel that my post was honest and constructive, based upon real world situations. I tried my best to fulfil your requests in your questions and I tried my best to put them in an honest way that was not belittling or offensive. Your response, however, I feel was not considerate and, to be honest, was quite rude.

 

Being told to do something without being specific is what i reacted to in your post. "seem you simply have to learn to deal with these situations" as if it was going to be simple. i wasn't being rude i was being my honest self and most people respect me for that as they know where they stand with me. There weren't any specifics on how you managed to deal with this type of situation (the topic at hand at the time). i felt like you were implying i was giving up and shying away, severely depressed people get their confidence dented easily. i was told "not to upset them" without details of what could upset them getting me more scared of approaching them in the 1st place. Also that i think it is unfair, since when is the treatment by someone who claims to understand autism then uses that person autism against them fair? Also that i should "let it wash over me" as though that was possible, if things wash over me or not i have no control over that at all.

I and others have all tried our best to help you. Pretty much all our answers follow the same line, and none of them have been remotely abusive. I understand that you are upset but that is no reason to take it out on the people who are trying their very best to help you.

 

The answers were making excuses for the instructor which isn't what i asked for help with. i didn't need to know what his intentions were at that time, just what to do about making a complaint about him. The extra sea of text was too much for me to cope with, which is why i overloaded further. In fact the comments deeply upset me so much they resulted in a sleepless night and ringing the Samaritans in the morning for help.

At the end of the day it is your decision as to what you do or say,

 

Unless i am under extreme stress as asperger syndrome practical solutions for tantrum rage and meltdowns would clearly document "when under stress people with aspergers do not think before they act". Hence the reason why "cannot foresee consequences of their own actions" is on the autism alert card.

but if you honestly feel that we are beating up on you then I would suggest that you follow your own route and see what comes of it.

 

i felt you were supporting the driving instructor, but i will hold my hands up and say im sorry for

 

a) not giving enough information about the instructor (ie the bullying behaviour)

and

for not ringing the samaritans so i could be calm enough to post and reply to peoples messages.

c) not explaining that this was triggering my PTSD as person i was trusting abused his power over me

 

Unfortunately i happen to be an Asperger who when gets depressed expresses it in anger, especially when she's hardly eaten (as was the case yesterday).

You can then assess the situation that this lands you in (whether that is a positive or negative situation) and compare to what we have said, and then use that as a lesson for the future.

 

If i know what's gone wrong/right or can recognise this situation occurring again then yes i can learn from any errors occurred. But when it comes to my "seeming aggressive when stressed" (flight or fight mode) that's something that's ongoing and part of my unfortunate history. That history resulted in my memories from secondary school being virtually wiped and a breakdown in 1998.

I have absolutely no doubt that you will take this as me being horrible to you, but I can guarantee that my tone is simply one of shock (in response to your reply to me) and has no negative undertones what-so-ever.

 

Actually i haven't taken it that way this time (no one can tell a persons state of mind when they read others posts).

 

Alexis

[bid]

In answer to your original question, from a legal point of view if you came to see me I would say you don't have any hope whatsoever of bringing a case under DDA - it would be virtually impossible to show that he treated you less favourably BECAUSE of your autism. He could say he chose you because of your reliability, the day or time of your lesson, as a random selection, because he cut everyone whose name began with A-M etc etc etc....... Equally, he has made reasonable adjustments in the service he provides, on the simple basis that he ahs been providing it successfully for so long.

With regard to your question about the DDA, I think Kez has given you her professional legal opinion, which seems very sound to me.

 

Bid

 

[Meethoss]

Alexis, I actually did give you specifics - I said you should "mention to him what the issue is and maybe write a polite note to the driving school - try to help them understand what the situation is and how they may improve things in the future for yourself and others". By this I meant talk the issue through with the instructor in a calm manner (write a list if it helps) and ask if there is anyway that he is able to change his decision as you appreciate his teaching style and would like to remain a student of his (my feeling though is that he will not change his decision but it's always worth a try). If this does not work then you should write a polite and constructive letter to the school (if you need help with this then I'm sure I or others on here would be willing to help).

 

In reference to upsetting them I thought it was obvious (my mistake if it wasn't) that you would upset them by bringing them up on the DDA - this is actually a very serious thing to do and should by no means ever be undertaken lightly. In most incidents it is simply the perception of the "victim" and not the actual case. It would also be very difficult to prove and everyone here has stated that we do not feel that you are a victim of discrimination and therefore that you will struggle - this would cause you more stress and pain and we are trying to help you limit (or preferably avoid) this.

 

In regards to the fact that this instructor is supposed to understand autism it may be that he does, however you have to remember that people are not perfect. They are not automatons that can repeat a process exactly the same each time, and therefore they are open to error. He may have erred in your case but that doesn't mean he will do so every time, and to attempt to prove this will cause both of you a lot of stress.

 

As for supporting him, no we weren't doing that we were simply stating that it does not seem like he discriminated against you given what you have told us. If you provide more information that may be different but you must accept that people will not always agree with your opinion - as difficult as I find it myself (I am very stubborn) I do my very best to take other people's opinions in to account and, if reasonable, adjust my own opinion to take in to consideration factors that I may have otherwise ignored or overlooked.

 

I understand that you get angry for different reasons, this is something that I've experienced my entire life and have generally learnt to deal with and I'm sure many others on here have had similar experiences, but you need to learn that if you are in that state then taking it out on those who are trying to help is not fair on them and will simply result in you shrinking your own support group.

 

I suggest you learn some coping techniques (usually controlled breathing and a change of topic or physically getting away from the situation temporarily, helps me) and using these when you feel like that. The good thing about forums is that you do not have to respond instantly and you can take the time to calm down and think things through before responding. I know it's difficult to look at things from other people's perspective, as having Asperger's myself I also experience the same issues, but I recommend trying to see the angle that the speaker is coming from and thinking through all of the different possibilities - maybe think "outside the box" more.

 

You may also want to focus less on "I do x because of y" and just deciding "I do x regardless and I'm going to do z to resolve that". I hope that makes sense - I just get the feeling that you read too much about different conditions and take it "as gospel" and that it limits you; you need to be aware of what issues you have (I agree) but rather than accept that "that's the way things are and will always be" you need to challenge those difficulties and remove them. If you want specific examples about how to do this then I can try, but it's not always possible or easy to give an example.

 

Finally, I'm aware that your meeting was actually due to occur yesterday - did it go ahead? If so, what happened? How did it go?

 

Before answering please note that I am not trying to make an attack on you but simply making observations and using my experience to provide advice (which you may or may not agree with - that's your right) as I wish to help, so a calm and collected response (more like your last one) would be appreciated

[trekster]

meethoss wrote

Alexis, I actually did give you specifics - I said you should "mention to him what the issue is and maybe write a polite note to the driving school - try to help them understand what the situation is and how they may improve things in the future for yourself and others". By this I meant talk the issue through with the instructor in a calm manner (write a list if it helps) and ask if there is anyway that he is able to change his decision as you appreciate his teaching style and would like to remain a student of his (my feeling though is that he will not change his decision but it's always worth a try). If this does not work then you should write a polite and constructive letter to the school (if you need help with this then I'm sure I or others on here would be willing to help).

 

trekster

(MODS this stupid "more than the allowed quotes rule" is really bugging me now. Where do i find out the number of allowed quotes please?)

 

Ah ok, i hadnt mentioned that he is impossible to talk things through with. i prefer to speak to his manager since i attempted when he dropped me to explain autism to him one last time. i had attempted to change his mind, but now ive decided im better off without him. im getting my mentor to help me with wording the covering letter for the 26 incidents in which i feel he has let me down.

 

meethos

In reference to upsetting them I thought it was obvious (my mistake if it wasn't) that you would upset them by bringing them up on the DDA - this is actually a very serious thing to do and should by no means ever be undertaken lightly. In most incidents it is simply the perception of the "victim" and not the actual case. It would also be very difficult to prove and everyone here has stated that we do not feel that you are a victim of discrimination and therefore that you will struggle - this would cause you more stress and pain and we are trying to help you limit (or preferably avoid) this.

 

trekster

What is obvious to one person isnt to another, also the term obvious implies common sense which is patchy in autistics. The DDA would be mentioned nearer the end of the meeting since last time i brought up the DDA at the beginning i got shouted at by a pub manager. i understand that was a different situation but it was someone who claimed to be autistic aware telling us to change something last minute. Since he is offering a service (as Tally kindly pointed out) i think it could work. All i can do is give it a try and will email the EHRC if unsuccessful.

 

meethos

In regards to the fact that this instructor is supposed to understand autism it may be that he does, however you have to remember that people are not perfect. They are not automatons that can repeat a process exactly the same each time, and therefore they are open to error. He may have erred in your case but that doesn't mean he will do so every time, and to attempt to prove this will cause both of you a lot of stress.

 

trekster

That comment has upset me as he used the "im not perfect" excuse every time i attempted to explain autism to him! i didnt say nor imply he was perfect (no such thing as perfect) however these incidents happened virtually every lesson. He claimed to write notes about his clients and their progress therefore i expected that any errors in "forgetting Alexis is literal" wouldnt happen the next time. ie he would write it down "alexis works better with no question prompts took 5 lessons in a row to resolve. Also he was teaching disabled clients at the time (at least one other autistic who i am feeling deeply for and wondering how hes coping with this change). i accept it will be difficult (when isnt life difficult? rhet) but im preparedto talk it through until some resolution is reached (whether that be the instructor had retired, the instructor wont teach autistics anymore or he apologises).

 

Also his definition of understanding autism is probably having clients that just follow his instructions whether or not they understand them. i was more likely to question why we were doing something which is part of my autism and he should have accepted that.

 

meethos

As for supporting him, no we weren't doing that we were simply stating that it does not seem like he discriminated against you given what you have told us. If you provide more information that may be different but you must accept that people will not always agree with your opinion - as difficult as I find it myself (I am very stubborn) I do my very best to take other people's opinions in to account and, if reasonable, adjust my own opinion to take in to consideration factors that I may have otherwise ignored or overlooked.

 

trekster

Accepted i didnt give enough information at the time which i apologised for in the last post. Part of my dyslexia is not knowing how to sumarise or what to include in. i dont expect people to agree with my opinion necessarily just explain why they disagree. Im also the same regarding changing my mind, my supposedly NT aunt tends to pick me up on this and wont accept ive changed my mind.

 

meethos

I understand that you get angry for different reasons, this is something that I've experienced my entire life and have generally learnt to deal with and I'm sure many others on here have had similar experiences,

 

trekster

im guessing the non angry ones didnt experience PTSD or have parents that bullied them into submission at home? Unless thats a personality issue which way i react?

 

meethos

but you need to learn that if you are in that state then taking it out on those who are trying to help is not fair on them and will simply result in you shrinking your own support group.

 

trekster

This is what i meant about not being specific, "you need to learn" without giving me that lesson or letting me know where i can obtain that lesson. My dad used to shout that at me as a kid which is why i find it very upsetting. Also i dont recognise im in that state until after i have upset someone. i wasnt taking it out on you guys (not intentionally anyway). If i was name calling and swearing and all caps would have come into it. If people dont wish to help me because they DONT understand meltdowns/rages etc thats their problem not mine and they dont understand my autism either. If an epelpetic is 'forgiven' from having a seizure then an autistic should be understood for their behavioural episodes. Same with a bipolar patient.

 

meethos

I suggest you learn some coping techniques

 

trekster

Please stop using this term "learn" without being willing to teach me. Instead say something along the lines of "ive found x technique helps me" (which is what i meant by specifics).

 

meethos

(usually controlled breathing and a change of topic or physically getting away from the situation temporarily, helps me)

 

trekster

The situation is right in front of me, since i spend most of my time in my lounge. i am reminded of it whilst im in my lounge.

 

meethos

and using these when you feel like that. The good thing about forums is that you do not have to respond instantly and you can take the time to calm down and think things through before responding.

 

trekster

As i have mentioned before i didnt realise i wasnt calm at the time of posting, look ive apologised for not ringing the samaritans before responding so please just leave it at that. Online post mortems dont help me self esteem especially since im stuck in severe depression.

 

I know it's difficult to look at things from other people's perspective, as having Asperger's myself I also experience the same issues, but I recommend trying to see the angle that the speaker is coming from and thinking through all of the different possibilities - maybe think "outside the box" more.

 

Actually when im not overloaded i am excellent at looking at things from others perspectives provided ive seem or experienced that myself. As i keep saying when overloaded i am unble to see the angle of the other speaker. It is only since ive caught up on my sleep and had sometime away from my place that i have come to this more stable mentality.

You may also want to focus less on "I do x because of y"

 

Part of my experiences is feeling i have to justify and explain myself. If you mean dont mention my disabilities i will never do that. i find it is educational to teach others about the effects of AS, dyslexia, ocd, depression, sensory overload, fibromyalgia, insomnia, ptsd etc. Dont deny my free speech also anyone put off by this isnt worth havng as a friend.

just deciding "I do x regardless and I'm going to do z to resolve that". I hope that makes sense - I just get the feeling that you read too much about different conditions and take it "as gospel" and that it limits you; you need to be aware of what issues you have (I agree) but rather than accept that "that's the way things are and will always be" you need to challenge those difficulties and remove them. If you want specific examples about how to do this then I can try, but it's not always possible or easy to give an example.

 

No you are totally wrong about me and have judged me harshly. Either i end up feeling suicidal because i cannot understand why i do certain things or i try and learn about them, which do you prefer? It doesnt limit me, actually protects me so i dont attend horror movies or 18s because my dyslexia for example. Dyslexics have very colourful dreams especially about their day experiences. i never said that any of my issues were permanent, stop putting words into my mouth and these implications have deeply upset me. You might want to deny that aspergers causes problems doing x y and z but im not going to do that ever. if it isnt posisble to give an example please dont express that opinion. Also you havent mentioned your definition of "reading too much" in fact ive read nothing about autism/aspergers for a few weeks.

Finally, I'm aware that your meeting was actually due to occur yesterday - did it go ahead? If so, what happened? How did it go?

 

Postponed until tuesday weather permitting. Will let the group know, kind of you to ask.

Before answering please note that I am not trying to make an attack on you but simply making observations and using my experience to provide advice (which you may or may not agree with - that's your right) as I wish to help, so a calm and collected response (more like your last one) would be appreciated

 

Shame you didnt put that at the beginning of the reply. It would be appreciated also if you refrained from suggesting that i stop talking about how my disabilities affect me.

 

Alexis

[trekster]

Hi my husband used to be a driving instructor, he had his own business for a while and has worked for driving schools. He has had to let pupils go for various reasons, mainly like some else has already said, if he had too much work on he would let a couple of pupils go, it was unfortunate but this situation can arise. He would never treat anyone differently whether there were disabled or not. It is possible that this instruction was genuine and that the fact you are autistic has nothing to do with it. Hope all goes well tomorrow, let us know.

 

It hasnt happened yet, i think folk are misisng the point here. i wasnt transitioned into a new driving instructor just told "i cant teach you anymore" then pressurised into giving out my private phone number so a new person could start from scratch. Intructor had agreed to introduce me to my potential examiner well before the transition so he was aware it would help me so why not with a new instructor? Also trying to get me to go with an instructor when he hasnt asked if they understand autism, shows his lack of awareness of my autism.

 

if there wasnt a problem then a friend of mine in the NAS wouldnt have suggested ringing the company to offer autism awareness training.

 

Alexis

[bid]

In answer to your original question, from a legal point of view if you came to see me I would say you don't have any hope whatsoever of bringing a case under DDA - it would be virtually impossible to show that he treated you less favourably BECAUSE of your autism. He could say he chose you because of your reliability, the day or time of your lesson, as a random selection, because he cut everyone whose name began with A-M etc etc etc....... Equally, he has made reasonable adjustments in the service he provides, on the simple basis that he ahs been providing it successfully for so long.

 

I'm posting this again because you don't seem to be acknowledging Kez' professional legal advice over the DDA.

 

Bid

 

[Lufty]

Dear All

 

I think the general consensus from forum members is that the driving instructor was entitled to decide which clients to continue giving driving lessons to and consequently any claim under the DDA is unlikely to succeed and hopefully this has now answered the original question.

 

Before this thread deteriorates further into personal attacks on members I suggest we let this thread lapse now.

 

Kind regards

 

 

Lufty

 

 

 

 

[Meethoss]

Lufty, I don't think it's necessary to stop the thread as I don't believe any personal attacks will happen - but if you definitely wish it to stop then I will do so.

 

Sorry Alexis, I didn't wanna put my disclaimer at the top in case it made it seem like the rest of my post would be negative, I hope you understand

 

I think I understand more about your instructor and I agree that he hasn't taken your best interests in to account by not helping you in your to transition. That still doesn't change the fact that a claim under the DDA probably wouldn't hold, so it's good that you recognise that he clearly wasn't good for you. It may therefore be wise just to politely approach the business and re-advise them of your needs or, as has been previously suggested, to seek out another instructor that would be more appropriate for you. I understand that this may be difficult for you with all the change you are having but it may actually be better for you in the long run. I often find myself opposed to change but after giving it a go it usually works out better - an example of this for me would be food, which I've always had a big issue with. Refused to eat Chinese and Indian for years and now I love the stuff

 

I'm sorry that you think I don't wish you to talk about your problems - that's not what I meant at all, I like to learn more about people and I would certainly NEVER wish to prevent anyone from their right to free speech. What I meant was that you often seem to quote that you are unable to do something because, for instance, "Asperger's people can't do that" and this can be a limiting factor in terms of challenging oneself (the only way to really get ahead in life) - take Phil Packer, for instance. He was paralysed from the waist down when fighting in Iraq and has since managed to run the London marathon among other things! (http://www.seriousinjurylaw.co.uk/news/Spinal-Injury-News/Army-major-with-spinal-cord-injury-receives-award.php). Amazing!

 

Again, I might be reading you wrong (in which case, I apologise) but either way I think it's something that everyone needs to do to further their own development and that of those around them

 

May I suggest you prepare some bullet points to discuss at your meeting on Tuesday, and to hold off on mentioning DDA at least until you've given them a chance as doing so will just make them clam up i.e. be resistant to helping you.