Predjudice towards Autism

[Jester]

 

I shall say nothing more than this ....my first post made a number of references to those of the 'PE' persuasion, and I thought it best to delete it and start again.

 

Even when training we used to jeer at the PE 'potentials' with the cry..

 

"A year ago I couldn't spell 'PE'...now I is a teacher of it"

 

A secondary Head of PE I knew divided the new year sevens into the categories Good, OK and 'spas'. I explained, complained and eventually just took the p#ss and he didn't understand any of it! When I left he STILL thought I was "a good crack" because I'd tried to tell him 'why losers should make the team'

 

They are well developed from the neck down. Dead in the other direction and when they are old they teach geography because they know how to colour in.

 

Harrumph!

 

 

PS of course I don't want to be rude to people who have skills with contact sports, they should be included in society and valued for what they are. Oh, S#d it! String 'em all up and leave me with the aspies ... THEY can remember useful stuff like test match scores and where Bangladesh is.

[oracle]

Never mind they are all banding together now to save Barriesmart - so there is another thread to read.

 

Carole

[oracle]

Make that two threads. I have tried to stay out of this one BUT I am ofended that these so called 'professionals' can make light of this and find it funny. It's not and one ###### good reason why they should be nowhere near our kids.

 

Rant over

 

Carole

[Lucas]

I've made a strong-worded post.

[lisa]

I think Barrie is just out to provoke. I don't think he's in the "professional" field at all, he probably works collecting trollies in Tesco. If you read down his posts, one minute he refers to teaching in several schools under heads with differing attitudes to SEN, then he claims to be a clinician, then he claims he can't even go out shopping he has to have it delivered. If a person genuinely has this kind of attitude to children with disabilities, why would they train in that particular field. I think he's sick and he gets a kick out of trying to shock and upset people on the internet.

 

Lisa

[oracle]

Barrie is a woman.

 

Carole

[bid]

Can you imagine the outrage if there had been some slight differences on this TES thread...?

 

What if it had been 'black' instead of 'disabled/autistic', and 'ni**er' instead of 'dinky'??

 

Would some of the contributors have still said it was 'just' their legitimate personal opinion and 'just' a word??

 

I think not!!

 

Bid

 

I wanted to post this on the TES site, but was put off by the fact that to register you seem to have to give loads of personal details

 

Well done to the Superdudes who did post, cunningly disguised!

Edited May 27, 2005 by bid

[Lucas]

I have now engaged Thisislondon in verbal sparring.

[Hectorshouse]

I have posted on this thread a couple of times (incognito) and I have been sure to make no reference to my connection here.

 

I was particularly appalled by the use of 'dinky' I am still amazed that there is such prejudice out there from a so called professional.

 

I agree with you Bid, what would've happened if the thread had been about an ASBO being given to a young black hoodied teen for 'stareing', we are dealing with a culture of fear.

 

Barrie is a woman I hope she hasn't got any children.

[asereht]

I had a look at this website and I think that it would be one best kept away from!

 

Theresa

[bid]

Hi Lucas

 

Just take care that the people on the TES site don't get to you too much! <'>

 

Bidx

[Suze]

Glad some krismites have crept over to the dark side and posted opinions, felt it was important that TES users know the daily struggles our kids have the prejudice and bullying and violence they suffer from NT,S.My son comes home from school where he is verbally abused on a daily basis.Bruises and scratches are common.Go LUCAS,read your post you,ll pass on your wisdom I,m sure.

[Hectorshouse]

Am off to check out the sparring between thisislondon and lucas

 

HHxx

[Zemanski]

just another tack - with my professional hat on - those loons in the corner of the staffroom are sometimes quite good for us; they provoke us into thinking more deeply about issues and definitely push us in the right direction when they get our backs up.

 

good professionals don't take their arguments on board; they stand against them

 

devil's advocates sometimes shake us up

 

let's hope there are more people irritated enough with barrie to think the opposite - good news for our kids

 

zemanski

[juliebusfreak]

After conferring with some friends and colleagues on ASD forums, I have only this to add:

 

That "frothing loon" in the corner may well be the one who voices the "concerns" that results in your life being turned upside down.

 

History has elevated quite a few frothing loons to prominence. And there are still some in high places, determined to drag everyone round to their way of thinking. I believe in having the freedom to make an informed decision. If I choose to bury my head in the sand and stick my feathered bottom in the air, then I should not be surprised if I "come a cropper".

 

If these offensive terms were applied racially, there would be hell to pay.

[loulou]

Hi everyone,

 

I've just checked out this website, but i felt too angry to read it all.

 

However, i just noted that Barriesmart has been "removed" from the website!

 

 

Shame she can't be removed from the planet.

 

Loulou x

[bid]

Oooh, hot news!!

 

According to a poster on the 'Support barrie' thread, the NAS have lodged a complaint with the TES, and the discussion has been forwarded to the Minister for Disabilities!!

 

Hurrah...the 'dinkys' fight back!!

 

Bid

 

Maybe this appalling thread will ultimately open some eyes and help make some changes for the better!

[Zemanski]

I heartily agree with Juliebusfreak - frothing loons are dangerous

 

but great news that this frothing loon's thread has had an outcome that may lead to some of the awful prejudices voiced on the TES site being addressed

 

well done, NAS

 

 

zemanski

 

Oh. and Nemo says:

 

Lucas, you really should know better than to argue semantics with a lawyer

Edited May 27, 2005 by Zemanski

[bid]

Just discovered that you can send a complaint to the editor of the TES website, without having to join!

 

Go to the link above, and scroll down, then click on 'Contact Us' on the lefthand side.

 

I've just sent a complaint!

 

Let's make this into something big...what would happen if every Autistic family/Autist who has read this offensive prejudice made a complaint!

 

I used my analogy with racist language and attitudes...something I don't see they can disagree with

 

Bid

[juliebusfreak]

Hurrah! If you have the information, you can make a choice. And many of us have, it seems. I feel grateful to have been able to speak out on behalf of my child and others with ASD before the F.L's ridicule, demonize and silence us.

[baddad]

Bid - you naughty, woman! Whatever happened to "I may not agree with what you say but I defend..." Even gormless, prejudiced, probable pe teachers are entitled to their (stupid) opinions...

Of course, that doesn't mean they have a right to air them without expectation of some sort of response, which is why the forums moderator will be hearing from me too soon!

Oh, and big up to the NAS for lodging a formal complaint... generally I feel they've lost touch with (or become too politically 'dependant' to lobby for effectively) the people they represent, so it's nice to hear their not completely toothless!

L&P

BD

[littlenemo]

For those who can't face reading 32 pages (at the last count) of 'frothing loons', all you really need to know is this:

side 1: kids/people with disabilities should not be given special dispensation in the eyes of the law

side 2: kids/people with disabilities should be treated fairly in society

(I'm simplifying here)

 

barriesmart, who seems to have started the ruckus deserves our sympathy. She is so NT that, quote "I avoid the disabled ( yeah true!), I dont go into resturants, leave places where dinkies come in, rarely go shopping ( use internet)." [ 'dinkies' is the word she uses for the disabled.]

OK, maybe not our sympathy, but certainly some professional help. Maybe some of that professional 'help' that has made our lives so much easier

 

And to give an idea of the sort of intelligent discussion these professionals are having over there, here is my favourite post (by grouch):

 

"A heart becomes available for transplant. there are 2 candidates.

 

Candidate one is a manual worker - no savings but has worked all his life.

 

Candidate 2 is a workshy man who has been on benefits or training since leaving school 30 years ago.

 

God, if I was in charge of allocations, I wouldn't even need to think about it."

 

I have AS, I have had 4 years employment in the last 20 (would you give a job to someone who avoids eye contact at interviews?[well, I know you lot would, but you get the point])

So to make some money I wrote a couple of books on Maths and Art. I've had letters asking to use my work from String Theorists, been cited in academic publications, and 15 years on still get emails from readers telling me how I've changed their lives for the better.

I may not have any money or a job, but I've got a heart.

More than can be said of many of the posters on that bizarre forum.

 

It would be amusing if it weren't for the fact that some of these people are the ones ruining our kids'lives.

 

Have a nice evening - don't get sucked into that forum's vitriol. Lucas did, and he's probably still debating he meaning of the word 'intent' with someone who claims he's the Devil's advocate

 

L&P and a big yellow bus

 

nemo

[baddad]

It means "Gone camping" I think. Intense means "On the scouts jamboree"...

Hope that helps, Lucas. Nemo - shame on you!

[oracle]

It has now been made common knowledge on this site that numerous people have complained to amongst others, The National Autistic Society and the Minister for Disabilities. Now what they can actually do about postings on this forum I do not know? It has also been made clear that this topic is being discussed on almost EVERY ASD Group on the net. But still they post. Are these people really Lemmings? I know that the only way they can be made public is if TES decided to pass over ID's and I can not see this happening. But I do believe that this is an excellent snap shot for the DFES to be viewing - it is after all they who are telling us that these people are qualified to teach our kids?

 

Carole

[littlenemo]

It means "Gone camping" I think. Intense means "On the scouts jamboree"...

Hope that helps, Lucas. Nemo - shame on you!

Shame on me???

You'll get an ASBO slapped on you for using loaded puns in a public place: you won't be allowed within one paragraph of a double entendre.

And if you break your conditions you'll be locked in a cell and made to listen to every episode of I'm Sorry I'll Read That Again.

Forewarned is four armed (or legged)

 

nemo

[baddad]

And if you break your conditions you'll be locked in a cell and made to listen to every episode of I'm Sorry I'll Read That Again.

nemo

I've got the broil version "I'm sorry, I'll feel that again"

I've got the brail version...

[Peter Cook, 1973, God bless him]

[Suze]

Morning everyone, it seems Lucas was up a bit late last night .Particularly liked post 387.Was no one watching big brother?So glad the NAS are on board hope they can put the wind up them.Shall be off to lodge my complaint momentarily.Did anyone catch the other post in this thread that referred to the practises of DR,s and nurses,and their mistreatment of patients.It seems if your a self harmer and need A&E to stitch you up they,ll gladly do it but without a any pain relief.They have the same disdain for attempted suicides.Shocking!!!It seems Barriesmart met a few of these nice people while working in the NHS.

[Hectorshouse]

I have printed off a large section of it to use in the campaigning work I do, it highlights the ignorance and prejudice that is daily disguised behind a banner of professionalism. It also admirably argues for the plight of the autist in a society that chose to be ignorant.

 

The reason I printed it out was I've heard through the grapevine that it is going to be removed shorty.

 

HHxx

[Sri]

Hello,

 

I'm a freelance journalist writing an article about people with conditions such as autism being given Asbos - how inappropriate this is and how it helps to promote misunderstanding and intolerance within communities.

 

If anyone has any firsthand experience of this issue or knows someone who is willing to talk to me, please could you email me on sricarmichael@hotmail.com. I would be happy to make interviews anonymous.

 

I realise you may be quite apprehensive about talking to journalists, especially given the trend within the media to attribute the behaviour of autistic children to bad parenting. But I assure you my sympathies lie with the parents who too often do not receive sufficient support and understanding from schools and social services. My mother - Helen Carmichael - is an educational psychologist and runs the behaviour management team for Norfolk schools and my sister is SEN teacher, about to train to be an ed psych, who has worked extensively with autistic children - so I have some understanding of autism and am fully aware that slapping an asbo on someone whose behaviour is not intentional is not the best solution. My aim is to expose the use of asbos on people with autism/ADHD as a mistake - not in any way promote it.

 

I guess many parents whose autistic children have been given Asbos may feel they have been through enough and won't want any more publicity. But, as I said, I can make any interviews completely anonymous. My article will be far more powerful and be more likely to grab people's attention if it includes people's personal stories.

 

Many thanks,

 

Sri Carmichael

[Suze]

Welcome to the forum Sri.Hope you get a reply regarding your article.Wanted to bump up this thread as I had a reply from the TES site regarding my complaint to them about the ASBO/ Autism thread .Very nice it was too and unexpected.Has anyone else had one or just me .

[Sri]

Thanks Suze. I'm crossing my fingers someone gets in touch soon as my deadline is the end of next week. I'm trying to get the article done soon while the C4 documentary is still fresh. Did you see it tonight? What did you think? I'm hoping to interview the headteacher of the Spa School next week.

I'm glad the TES website replied to your complaint. Some of the comments on that thread were very disturbing in their level of ignorance and intolerance. Do you mind me asking what the reply said? No worries if you'd rather keep it private! Cheers again for your welcome.

[bid]

I had a reply from the TES too.

 

Bid

[Pop]

It strikes me that a lot of people have just jumped on the bandwagon here without actually knowing what is being discussed. It is clear that many posters didn't read the TES thread and therefore weren't in a position to comment. In addition complaining about something you haven't even read is appalling and amounts to something of a witch hunt. Unfortunately in your eagerness to condemn those who you find offensive many of you have managed to be offensive yourselves. I don't think that calling anyone a loon is particularly polite and might be considered pretty offensive in itself. Also offensive language on any forum is unwarranted and certain posters who appear to post both here and TES are pretty foul in their language.

[Lucas]

I don't suppose you will actually specify exactly who has jumped on a bandwagon? What is your evidence that people did not read the thread? Some read as much as they were able but had to stop because it is yet another knock added to many in already difficult lives.

 

I'm sorry you find strong langauge more offensive than discrimination, or am I wrong about you?

[Pop]

I would say that all of those who stated that Barriesmart was a man, or referred to Barriesmart as he, clearly hadn't read the thread and therefore they would seem to be jumping on a bandwagon.

 

I don't find strong language offensive, I find profane language offensive. I don't find it more offensive than discrimination and I can't see what basis you have for saying this.

[Kris]

Deep breath please!! Lets keep it calm and clean!!

 

Kris

[Lucas]

I didn't know Barriesmart was a woman until the second thread started up supporting her and there was no indication she was to any outsider until some way into the ASBOs & Autism thread, at which point most who are not pig-ignorant would have bee physically sick.

 

Langauge itself cannot be implicitly offensive or profane, it requires such abstract meanings to be projected into it. It is offensive when it is an extention of libel and that is when the person is using the langauge to express anger, malice or hate when they have no good cause to. Those who responded with strong langauge to the thread had very good cause to.

 

My evidence for suggesting that you are more offended by certain use of langauge than you are discrimination is where you place your priorities. It is tact to first acknowledge that discrimination has happened and it is wrong before criticising the response to it, it makes whatever point you have much more clear, which it is not at the moment.

[Pop]

I think if you didn't read the whole thread then you are not in a position to comment. That is just my opinion.

 

Sorry but language can be offensive. Certain words are considered to be offensive and are even defined as such in the dictionary, you know which words they are. As was pointed out on the other thread, no argument or debate is ever enriched by throwing insults.

[Jester]

Please everyone... the 'our forum' thread is full of how much we love the fact that Krism has never degenerated into the sort of nit-picking bile that the TES site did.

 

Many Krismites read the TES site and walked away; many of us will never budge an inch in what we believe and neither will others. 'An eye for an eye simply results in the world becoming blind' (said someone)

 

I am mortified that the term 'frothing loon' could cause offense and apologise unreservedly. I could argue that it is defined in the dictionary as an effervescent North American avian, but we all know I didn't mean that.

 

Relax. Support each other...that is why we are here.

 

If we are not here to support each other, then why are we here?

 

Jester

[mossgrove]

Pop

 

I read the whole thread, or at least the first 32 pages of it, not sure where it is up to now or if it is still there.

 

I thought to be honest that some of Barriesmarts postings had an attention-seeking 'there, I've said it now, what are you going to do about it?'quality to them, be it intentional or not, so the ensuing controversy was perhaps not too surprising,

 

The bit that wound me up the most was the ? got assaulted once so I''m not going to have anything to do with autistic people ever again. (or anyone else with an issue I donlt like) To try to understand where many of us are coing from consider the staement

 

"I got assualted by a black pupil once, Had to take tablets afterwards. From now on I'm teaching in an all-white school where they donlt let pakis in either"

 

It isn't acceptable is it?

 

I am not saying what Bariesmart said was racist. (The example above is made up BTW!). What I am saying is that what Bariesmart was saying seems no more sensible or rational than the above example to someone who has spent a lot of time with autistic people as there is such a brilliant and bewildering diversity within autism that treating all autistic people en masse as being the same and lumping them in with anyone else that Barriesmart doesn't deem mentally capable enough for the honour of being taught by her is going to cause offence. Barriesmart is an intelligent woman. She knew the likely effect before she posted.

 

The "I'm only saying what other people are already thinking'' argument only takes you so far. Barriesmart is not an innocent and unwitting victim in all this, and I hope you are not seeking to imply that she is.

 

Simon