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call me jaded

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Aspergers is autism too,thought most people with aspergers have good vocabulary,this is out of context and they find ddifficult to express and communicate and understand social rules and facial expressions,etc,don't have many friends etc.

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Thanks for that caroles.

 

A number of people on here have written about a diagnosis changing from autism to Aspergers. Why has this happened? Was the original dx incorrect? Has the person changed? Or something else?

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Technically a child is diagnosed with Aspergers syndrome if there has not been a dealy in their language ie they began speaking when most other children do. To obtain a diagnosis of High Functioning Autism there has to have been a delay in speech and I would assume that this is also the case for other branches on the autism tree?

 

Carole (without the s)

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Asperger's is much less obvious to an outsider than "straight autism", as I would call it - there are far fewer visual signs that the condition is there, unless you're well-trained/well-educated to spot them.

 

But yes - Asperger's is still autism to a certain extent, as it is a disorder on the autistic spectrum. :)

 

James

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Tony Attwood says the similiarites far outweigh the differences, I go even further because I don't believe the spectrum exists at all. It was only ever meant to be a layman explaination on leaflets, not a literal scientific model.

 

I am always suspicious when a person is 'upgraded'. There's a guy called Ralph Smith who had his diagnosis changed over the phone, he didn't find out why and the implications for it until later. He was called up by his local Autism society in Canada and they offered to contact those who diagnosed him to have his DX changed as he was such a high functioning adult. He didn't object but thought it was a bit weird. It turns out that a lot of adults who just so happen to not hate themselves get told they are not Autistic, but they actually have Aspergers(regardless of speech delays which would block it). There is a deliberate effort to seperate and distinguish soley based on dogma, but 98% of Aspies actually qualify for the Autism DX as did most of Asperger's patients.

 

The only real difference is how each group is observed. Stick the two groups in the same room and any expert will have difficulty picking them out from each other.

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I find it extremely difficult to differentiate. The early speech and language problems is the only difference of which I am aware.

 

I wonder if those who have had a change in diagnosis would care to comment?

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I have not had a change in diagnosis yet. But I was told that Matthew's dx of HFA may well become AS as he grew up. It was explained to me that this is because children on the spectum can and do move up and down the spectrum. I can agree with this as both Matthew and David have, I believe, changed places a few times. They progress and regress and although David's dx will never change now, he has AS at 8 there would of been no way that they could have written that dx in stone.

 

I would not want a dx that could not possibily change with age and any progress that a child may make. I have a friend whose son was diagnosed with Kanners autism when he was just three years old. He was non verbal until he was 8 years old and he now has a diagnosis of AS aged 15. This is why I hate the 'functioning' label because until you can communicate with a child how do you know how they are functioning? Never say never with a child who has ASD because some things are possible and changes do occur but sometimes that means regression.

 

Carole

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I've always been told that the main difference between the 2 is that ASD usually means that language was delayed. The problem with this (in my opinion at least) is that it doesn't take into account that some children may have needed extra help to get their language to begin to develop on time. My eldest didn't speak until he was 3yrs old and so his dx was HFA. I realised quite early on that my youngest son needed help with learning how to point, speak etc and so we used our own form of early intervention. By the time he was assessed at 2yrs old he could say about 15 words and so will probably be classed as AS. If his brother had been given this same level of help then he too may well have been speaking a lot sooner than he did.

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i have been told that if/when(please when :unsure: ) we get a diag from the doc we will be seeing that it will say autism ?

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Without wanting to change the nature of the thread I just wanted to add something to what Carole had posted.My son has had one particularly bad year in which every criteria used to dx was instantly recognisable...it,s hard to elaborate but to see him then you would have asked yourself gosh whats his problem.Two years on the anxiety he was suffering has been alleviated by the implimentation of a statement, changing class etc.He now does,nt arouse an immeadiate question as to his behaviour when people first meet him, he does odd things and is quite challenging but nothing as obvious as before.It,s for this reason that I don,t know if there is truly a definite difference between AS/AUTISM because my experience is that the traits can change in severity and frequency depending on stress, anxiety, age , depression, sensory maturity etc etc.For instance my son could,nt stand to be looked at in the eyes when a toddler, now he will look deeply into my eyes for a very long time.He would never go near a hand drier but now tolerates them.There are endless things that have changed as he adapts and gets older. Has anyone else seen this in their children?

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Has anyone else seen this in their children?

 

Yes This happens with both of my sons. David's AS was very well hidden until he had his breakdown aged 11. Since then there is no doubting his AS it's always on view but it does vary depending on how much stress he is under or feeling. We have great weeks with David but, like at the moment, if he has a worry then the AS is literally hitting us in the face. At the moment David is very stressed because it's the first anniversary of his Grandad's death and it's as if it's really hit him that he is not coming back. He is having some very morbid thoughts, but not about hurting himself, just about loosing people he loves. So his obsessions and rituals are all very much front line at the moment.

 

We have similar with Matthew although taking him out of school helped Matthew a great deal. His stress levels are so much lower but strange to say I am still watching his autism grow - even without the stress. That probably does not make much sense, but it's little things like literal thinking and doing. I see that so much more. It's like it's grown with his language.

 

Yesterday was a very good example with Matthew. He did his first ever sleep over with Boys Brigade. Brilliant!! But that left him exhausted and that meant he was stressed and anxious. We had a rollercoster auti tantrum day -something we see little of these days with Matthew. But it came as a reminder that they are still there.

 

Carole

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I agree with both Suze and Carole my son varies from fairly ok to extremely bad depending on stress levels or whats going on around him or in his life. This can change from day to day, hour to hour,minute to minute, or in a split second!!

 

Theresa

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Carole + Theresa there is alot I can relate to in your boys, at the weekend the family was at home all relaxing and enjoying the weather.My son was inside awaiting the arrival of his friend coming over.The next thing I can hear crashing and banging in the house...I rush to see what the problem is to be greeted by my son beside himself hissing his breath, red and tearful.I immeadiately know we,ve got a problem his friend had just called to say he could,nt come.The rest of the day he was awful....I guess you can all imagine......Jaded sorry I,ve gone off the thread subject .Forgive me :pray: .

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although language delay is the only real difference in diagnostic criteria I have been told that the difference between AS and autism is more of a qualitative judgement on the part of a professional.

 

what that actually means is that it is up to the professional to decide on the basis of their own experience

 

LEAs prefer children to have a diagnosis of AS so you're more likely to get AS from an educational professional - entirely due to the view that kids with autism need more specialist resources than kids with AS who are generally assumed to be capable of functioning in mainstream

 

cynical I know

 

but there you go

 

Zemanski

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I've always been a little confused about this, T's DX came though when he was 9 for AS but he had a signifcant language delay, didn't speak (or rather shout) until 2.5, but this was put down to his glue ear with kept recurring finally cured when he was nearly 7, so the speech thing has always been a query was it autism or hearing? I think if his dx had come through earlier we would've had a dx for HFA, but as his speech was so far on by the time we were dx'd he got the AS dx. His speech has in many ways been his down point though, as most people believe his far more comprehending than he actually is, he used to have a very monotone and loud voice, but since he started singing he has intonation and more control over the volume, with a 1950's BBC lilt.

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language is also one of Com's main weaknesses

 

he was very precocious in terms of vocabulary and diction - he's one of those that sounded like a little professor at 2years old

 

his literal understanding was always very good and he could discuss things on an almost adult level (if it interested him) before school

 

but at school they still don't get that if they tell him to be quiet he will do just that, it doesn't mean stop talking to him - he's had several detentions for this in the last year!!!!

 

There is so much emphasis on other people's points of view in language work too and that really holds him back - all that making something suitable for a particular audience stuff. Now he's in high school that seems to be a problem in things like ICT and technology.

 

The understanding of pragmatics as a problem for autistic and AS kids alike is growing amongst professionals but not many teachers seem to have much of an idea about it yet.

 

Zemanski

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I have always heard that people with aspergers are normally of at least average or higher intelligence. This means less learning difficulties which people with autism face more often.

 

I have never had learning difficulties, just problems with the social side of things though this has gotten easier as I progressed with age.

 

I have aspergers syndrome. I also know a few others with aspergers syndrome and they are mostly above average intelligence, none are below.

 

Einstien himself was believed to have aspergers.

 

Stephanie x.

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I wish the functioning label didn't exist, maybe its how the individual deals with it that makes a difference.

 

I know of someone who went opposite way, diagnosed with HFA @ 3 years old, stopped talking at 6 now at 27 she is diagnosed as profound. She basically talked then didn't see the point any more.

 

The higher functioning ones are the ones who struggle to get diagnosed, from my experience part of me wishes I had not put so much work into my sons language development as now it frustrates him that he knows the words just not how to use them and seems to talk less and less every day. But I also get sick of the comments of 'He can't be autistic he can talk' :angry:

 

I agree with something a support person said to me, fight for the diagnosis, use it to obtain services to improve their life and get the support you and they need, then forget about it. I'm still fighting for that diagnosis but as his mother I'm only interested in it getting him the support he needs with it, whatever the diagnosis he's still my boy :wub: and I love him regardless, I just know how to deal with him better now which can make a massive difference.

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Hi Jaded - Can't remember who (might have been Tony Attwood), but whoever it was said the difference between autism and aspergers is the spelling...

Pretty much my opinion too, i.e. the 'difference' is too small to matter, but sometimes very BIG in terms of the way people respond to it... For many outside of the loop, aspergers is the 'acceptable face' of autism - a differentiation that does nobody any good, but potentially causes a lot of harm.

Donna Williams has some interesting views on the practical (for want of a better word!) differences, as she is ASD and her husband has a diagnosis of AS...[i just whipped across to her website to see if there were any articles on this there, but couldn't see one immediately...Here's the link anyway - there might be other stuff you find useful:

donna williams ] ... I think this is in the 'inside out approach' book - available from all good lending libraries!

L&P

BD :D

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When my son was diagnosed the Paediatric Neurologist who diagnosed him said that medically the label of Autism, Asperger's or HFA was irrelevant as far as he was concerned the term "Neurologically atypical" was more appropriate. However, from the point of view of accessing services he recognised that a label of Autism, AS or HFA was necessary and he would provide whichever label best accessed the services that were required since nobody fitted neatly into any one category.

 

He gave my son the label of AS. We discussed the current view of some professionals that AS is not part of the autistic spectrum and I was told that if some time in the future that AS was not part of the spectrum my son would still be autistic but he felt that the label AS had less negative connotations whilst still enabling me to access the support my son required.

 

Had many conversations with Consultant paediatricians and Paediatric Psychiatrists since who all seem to be of the same opinion.

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When my son got his dx the opinion was that he was on the autistic spectrum but a dx of As would be more benificial to him . He also has dx of developmental co- ordination delay and selective mutisim ( which we are told is not really selective as he does not choose not to talk in certain situations, he just can't!)

Theresa

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I also find speech difficult in certain situations, it's not shyness but an actual physical effort that becomes harder.

 

Often I'm told how there is a big difference between Autism and AS by people(often American or Canadian parents or professionals) but I have seen quite a number of Autistics. I have seen the lowest and highest functioning together and apart, so my world-shattering question is: If Kanner Autistics are supposed to be so different from me and Aspies, why do all I see is Aspies everywhere? The description of Autism is a caracature which doesn't resemble what I see at all.

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To further confuse the issue, we also have the 'Tactical Diagnosis'.

 

Many consultants are acutely aware that the degree of provision varies according to diagnosis even if the need does not.

 

Anecdotal eveidence suggests that many consultants are becoming more reluctant to diagnose Aspergers because LEA's are increasiningly likely to assume "mainstream with some additional support but no need for a statement " as soon as they read the words. In our area a non-specific diagnosis of "Autistic Spectrum Disorder" is becoming increasingly common for, I suspect, this very reason.

 

Simon

Edited by mossgrove

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