I wish I wasn't such a horrible person

[Gordie]

 

I'm a horrible person - I really am. I try hard not to let it show in public, coz I selfishly don't want to lose my friends with my nastiness. But deep down, I'm not a nice guy at all.

 

There's this other message board I use a lot that is very general-purpose indeed. Absolutely anything goes there, and it's not for any specific group of people. So I read all sorts of posts, on all sorts of topics.

 

Most people respond positively, with something nice to say, but a lot of the time I just think to myself not-so-nice things (to put it mildly).

 

Let me give you some examples ...

 

Happy birthday messages are often posted for members whose birthdays are on that particular day. But if I don't know that person, I think to myself, "Can't be bothered to wish them a happy birthday - I don't know them."

 

Requests for what is known as "cork power" (as in positive mental strength from everyone on the corkboard) are posted very regularly, for various reasons, such as ill health of themselves, a relative, a friend, etc., or for good luck in a job interview or whatever. Again, if I'm not a friend of whoever has posted, or the post is about anyone I don't know, or reasons are not given for the request (to protect someone's right to privacy), I feel no empathy for their situation whatsoever. So I'll just gloss over the post without giving it a second thought, as I wouldn't really feel anything I might have pretended to feel.

 

Or just today there was someone I quite dislike, saying their paid membership is about to end, but that they'll still be around as a non-paying member. And while virtually everyone responding was showing disappointment about the situation, I was thinking to myself, "Oh, good - he'll be a bit less prominent from now on then - that can only be a good thing." I was even tempted to say to friends of mine that had posted to let him know how loved he is, that "Sorry, but I can't stand him - he really does my nut and I wish he'd leave the site completely." Of course I haven't said that to anyone, but I wanted to.

 

If I actually posted everything I thought, under my recognised nickname there, I wouldn't have any friends left there. No way. I'd have been hounded out of the site long ago.

 

Although just 3 weeks or so ago, I actually did say what I felt about something, and did act upon my feelings, and my actions resulted in a great deal of hurt and pain for my very best friend in the world ever. I first got to know this lovely woman on-line just over 18 months ago. She was learning to become a driving instructor when I first met her on-line. So once she'd qualified and had a slot to fit me into, as I'd not yet learnt to drive, I thought it would be a nice idea to learn with her, despite the long travel distance for lessons each week. What better way to see my best friend on a regular basis? Trouble is I'm now so comfortable and relaxed around her, I've started to take her for granted and take advantage of her extremely good nature. You see ... I didn't like the way she would take phone calls on her mobile during my lessons with her, and she knew that. There was an underlying tension surrounding this issue for some time, but when she told me a forthcoming lesson would have to be cut short because of one of her other students booking a test that clashed a little with my lesson, I tried to insist that she turn her phone off during that shortened lesson, to eliminate any interruptions. She wasn't having any of it though, and wasn't up for an argument about it either, so she went off-line. As I was still raging about it, I lost my cool, and went to the aforementioned message board (that both she and I use) to find out other people's views on the ethics of a driving instructor answering mobile phone calls during lessons. The way I'd worded it, unfairly on my best friend considering the circumstances surrounding our lessons, meant that practically everyone agreed with me. Many also didn't know I was talking about someone who also uses that message board. If they had known that, I expect they'd have worded their responses a little more diplomatically. But those that did know - a couple of mutual friends of she and I - private-messaged me to warn me what I'd done was a real bad move. But I flatly rejected their advice, I felt so strongly about this. I never intended to hurt my friend - I was just trying to make a point. But the truth is once she saw what I'd posted, and what people had posted in response, she felt truly betrayed by me, and stabbed in the back. Understandably so too - I just didn't think, in the heat of the moment. I've not had a lesson with her since. We're trying to mend our friendship slowly, but it will take time. Hopefully soon she'll be comfortable enough to resume lessons with me again, coz I miss seeing her and her lovely family every week.

 

But how could I do such a thing to someone I regard as my very best friend?! How could I threaten my most-valued friendship by fussing about something so comparatively insignificant? Answer: I'm a horrible person. It's bad enough thinking these things so often, let alone acting upon them. What I did to her led me to do a lot of soul-searching - to take a step back and realise what I was doing. I don't like being the way I am, but I can't help the way I naturally think.

 

I'm quite bitter and jealous of anyone who can think nice thoughts all the time, and be genuinely thoughtful and caring towards people, just like my best friend as it happens (that's partly why she's my best friend). They remind me of everything I'm not.

 

James

[Guest flutter]

We all have had situation like this

i have said my feeling soo many times on another forum that i have used, where i know peeps are just out for ((hugs)) ect. i wont do that, i leave chat when they there, cos i wll be rude,

you were upset by your friend, i think the difficulty of using computers, is that we dont always think afore we type, and once it there, is not retractable

maybe you are just having a bad day?

feel free to tell me otherwise

C x

[Gordie]

maybe you are just having a bad day?

Perhaps ... but I think I always think like this. I just don't usually say what I think in full public view.

 

Okay - so you could say other people think the same way as me, and keep it all to themselves, but with some people, you can just tell that's not the case - they're so good-natured, they couldn't hurt a fly, and wouldn't think badly of anyone, ever. I wish I was like that.

 

James

[bid]

Hi Gordie

 

I think you're being far too hard on yourself <'>

 

I actually think most of us are like you...we keep an awful lot of our true feelings hidden so that we can get along with other people.

 

I think most people who are married and/or have children live in a permamnent state of not venting their true feelings in the interests of a happy family life!

 

Feelings are just that, they are only feelings and as such are liable to change over time or when circumstances differ. What matters is how you behave, not how you feel...but all of us slip up sometimes. It doesn't mean we are horrid people, it just means we are human <'>

 

And Gordie, I really don't believe that there are people who never have any horrid thoughts!!

 

And to be honest, it would really annoy me too if my driving instructor took phone calls during my lesson. You may not have handled it in the most tactful way, but show me someone who has never made a mistake! If I were you I would put this down to experience, and remember in the future that it's not always a good idea to involve friends in 'business' arrangements!

Edited June 22, 2005 by bid

[baddad]

Hi gordie -

Bid just pipped me at the post! I agree completely with her - we ain't none of us saints!

As far as the driving lessons thing goes, there are definitely TWO sides to that. Of course, your post on the other forum was maybe a bit of an over-reaction, but, again, we're all human...

I think the real crux of this one is the friendship: i don't think your friend would have been quite so offended (or as inconsiderate, maybe (?)) if it had been a 'regular' customer rather than someone she knew socially, but the flipside of that is you wouldn't have been able to 'out' her to the forum either. Think all you can do with that one is make your apology and give her some time...

Hope it works out OK, but in the meantime don't worry to much about being 'horrible', 'cos horrible is just another facet of human nature. It's not what tyou think that matters, it's what you do and how you do it. If you're getting it wrong half the time that means you're getting it right the other half, and that's a better average than many out there. Also, the fact that you think and worry about it speaks volumes - really horrible people have no time for a guilty conscience.

L&P

BADdad

[oracle]

How can you insturct someone while you are talking on the phone? I think you had every right to be angry. Far from you taking your friend for granted I think that maybe she was taking you for granted?

 

You sound quite a bit like my son David and although you are saying that you have no nice feelings I can't accept that. I believe that David wears his heart on his sleeve, meaning that his emotions show most of the time. He can't hold back with his feelings and he too would make posts that he later regretted, in fact he has done this on the boards he uses.

 

I actually quite admire David because there are no hidden extras with him. He is what you see and at least I always know where I stand with him. Most of us have nasty thoughts about people. I certainly do and I bet that you have never sent a very private e-mail, about someone you do not like, to a very public board? I have And the message was all about how much I disliked one of the members who posted there.

 

Not here folks not here.

 

Carole

[Elanor]

Oh James, you are being so tough on yourself. You hurt your friend, and that was wrong, but you know that you made a mistake, and I wish she could see your post - she sounds like she'd hate to see you hurting.

 

If you're not a nice person, then that makes at least 2 of us. I have friends who always care, and think nice gentle thoughts and are compassionate - whilst I'm thinking harsh judgemental thoughts. I've often thought that I'm not a kind person - but I really do try, and I think I've become nicer, by trying to imitate these kind friends. Of course, like you, I usually keep the unpleasant thoughts to myself.

 

I think that the internet can disinhibit you - you say things that you simply wouldn't say face to face.

 

Take care

 

Elanor

[asereht]

James,

 

You made a mistake don't upset yourself over this.

 

My son is like you too what you see with him is what you get no hidden extras!

 

He too can say the wrong thing at the wrong time and has absolutely no sympathy/empathy for people he does not know. I don't think he can have as he seems to find it impossible if he does not know them.

 

I pm'd you a while back and your reply was both nice and useful my son(14) seen me replying to you and insisted that I tell him what I asked you first so I showed him and when he read your reply he said " ah that was really nice of him" and agreed with your advice.

He doesn't usually take an interest or advice from people he doesn't know so you made a breakthrough!.

 

Please believe you are a nice person and I have no doubt everyone on here thinks so too.

 

By the way I do not dish out compliments easily or because I think it's what people want to hear so I am 100% genuine in what I say. <'> <'>

 

All the best to you and I am sure in time your friend will realise you are sorry and forgive and forget.

 

Theresa xx

[hev]

hello james

 

i also think you are being very hard on yourself,you worry you have upset your friend,you worry about other peoples feelings so you are a caring person which is what i like in a friend.

to be honest if i was having lessons and phone calls kept getting taken i would be annoyed,i also find it hard to feel emotion for people i do not know.

take care from hev

[Kazzen161]

I don't think you are horrible for not posting birthday messages to people you don't know. I don't do that either.

 

Sometimes I come across messages on other boards that if I replied to them, I would sound rude or upset someone, so I just don't post.

 

I also try to avoid posting when I am angry about something, as once something is posted you cannot take it back. It is always best to go away for a while, and calm down first.

 

>>How could I threaten my most-valued friendship by fussing about something so comparatively insignificant?

 

but is was not insignificant to you. Its a shame that a compromise could not be reached.

 

>>I'm quite bitter and jealous of anyone who can think nice thoughts all the time, and be genuinely thoughtful and caring towards people

 

I don't think many people think nice thoughts all the time (in fact I am quite shocked at some of the horrible things that pop into my head sometimes!) BUT we learn that it is not appropriate to voice them/act on them - we only voice our nice thoughts, so we give the impression we are a saint! 0:)

 

Karen

[Kathryn]

Hello James,

 

You are not a horrible person!

 

I think horrible thoughts all the time, even sometimes about my family whom I love and am committed to. It's normal. I think it's only natural that these feelings are voiced occasionally, and probably a good thing as they will only resurface at another time in a more destructive way when one is ill or tired or stressed.

 

Relationships can survive these disagreements if people are honest with one another and it sounds as though yours is beginning to be restored. Try not to dwell on the past too much.

 

K

[Viper]

James, why are you posting on this forum? To help other people understand their children. Ok it may help you too but I bet we get so much more from you than you do from us. In my mind that makes you a very nice person. Also you are an aspie, by nature you don't do compasion, empathy holding back on what you think. Well thats my understanding of aspies anyway, thats how my son works. The thing is you do hold back, so you have learned it hurts people, to hold back on something you want to say about someone you don't like is admirable and I wish I could do it more often.

 

I think your friend pushed your friendship just as much as you did and maybe a frank discussion about taking each other for granted would clear the air. On the other hand she should know better than to take phone calls while she is in charge of a car, she may not be driving but as your instrcutor she is supposed to be as alert as if she were.

 

On the subject of saying happy birthday to people you don't know, why would you? I don't wake up in the morning and say "happy birthday everyone in the world who has a birthday today" and if you did say happy birthday to these people they wouldn't think any more of you they would wonder why someone who they don't know is wishing them H/B.

 

To sum up, don't be so hard on yourself you are no different from me or umpteen other people in all walks of life human nature is not always nice.

 

Viper.

Edited June 22, 2005 by Viper

[call me jaded]

I think you're being too harsh on yourself. Few people outside my immediate friends and family register a blip on my emotional radar. You are being true to yourself by not saying things you don't mean.

 

But you have publicly hurt someone you are close to. If I were your friend I would expect a public apology and some serious grovelling because, even though she stands on dodgy ground ethically (I'm sure her driving instructors course wouldn't endorse this) what you have done is make a disagreement public.

 

Mr Jaded and I have been together a long time (ages and ages) and the rule is, if one of you upsets the other, then grovell even if you have done nothing wrong. I could go on at length with numerous examples, but that would be very dull.

 

I've not been around here very long, but you do come across as a very caring person, James.

[CarerQuie]

James,we ALL have our hiddenside-and you always come over as a great person.None of us is perfect.xx

[KarenT]

Hi James. Wot everyone else has sed, with nobs on! If you're such a horrible person and so many others are confessing to be the same, we must be a right rotten bunch here, mustn't we? No, I think you're just an open and honest person and perhaps you think that everyone else is as open and honest too, so if they're not showing their dark sides then they mustn't have them, right? Wrong - everyone's got a dark side but it's a lifelong skill learning to develop strategies for not showing it and keeping the smiley face on instead. Hell, I'm 44 and I still ###### it up from time to time! And I expect I will continue to do so despite my best efforts not to.

 

The internet is a minefield of over-sensitive, touchy feely types who want warm fuzzy hugs to make everything better. It's not like real life and frankly it pees me off at times. I used to be a prolific poster when I first started to use message boards and forums but now I'm more selective and only reply to issues that either concern me or I care about. I've found that if I reply without thinking too clearly (and even when I've thought VERY clearly) I can upset people without realising it, so I aim to avoid that if I can. I don't go in for the Happy Birthdays much either, unless it's with someone I have an established relationship with and even then I'm more likely to send a personal email.

 

As to your friend, I reckon she was in the wrong from the offset and you were well within your rights to be offended at the lack of care she showed you in your lessons. I doubt very much that she'd behave this way with her 'proper' clients, or she'd soon run out of them. It's a bit like getting a builder friend to do a job for you - he might not charge you the going rate but the job will last for months because he's doing it in his spare time as a 'favour', and because he's a mate you can't question it, or can you? The friendship/business line is very blurred and should be avoided at all costs! OK, so you didn't handle it perfectly but you were right to be cross with her and you gave her plenty of opportunity to see that before you went a step further, didn't you? Mistakes on both sides, agree to own 50% of the blame.

 

I reckon it will blow over, and I really hope that it does. Good friendships stand the test of time and the odd argument won't hurt them, so if she truly is a good pal she'll remain that for a long time, and if she isn't then far better to know sooner than later. Keepign my fingers crossed for you (which is why my typing is so cr*p).

 

Karen

x

[Suze]

James I hope you feel better today.The feelings you have are the same as everyone else has at times.I,d love to say what I really think sometimes .Please don,t be too hard on yourself, my son has said some bad things in the heat of the moment and I know he goes through torment after.This is an order....torment yourself no longer!

[Gordie]

Hi, all.

 

Okay - first, let me come to the defence of my friend. I was hoping not to have to go into this here, but I haven't put across her point-of-view, nor explained the circumstances surrounding our driving lessons. So I need to do that now. This was something I was guilty of on the other message board too, although that was more deliberate on that occasion.

 

I know you're all looking out for me, but the truth is she isn't on the phone very often during my lessons, and she never makes outgoing calls - only takes incoming calls. Those she does take are only from numbers she does not recognise, or from unknown numbers (in case they are potential business, or of some other important nature, such as the school calling about her kids). Should someone call with a number she does recognise, unless she feels it could be important, the call is ignored. And this has happened on at least one occasion that I can remember. Personal/social calls are never taken during lessons. With her other students, time spent taking phone calls is added onto the end of the lesson, so that they don't miss out. (This I actually didn't know until quite recently, but she had been hoping I would trust her to be fair like that.) The reasons that doesn't happen with me are because we're friends, so a few minutes lost here and there shouldn't matter ... because time constraints mean there isn't a lot of time available for us to add onto the end of our lessons ... and because she already only charges me 50% of her usual hourly rate for all my driving lessons with her, as we are such close friends, and she wanted to do me a favour as I have to spend over �20 travelling to her place and back for each lesson - therefore I should not be bickering about how much money I'm losing while the odd phone call is taken.

 

So that's put her case across to you.

 

But thanks for all your support on how horrible I really am, saying you're all just as bad.

 

bid:

If I were you I would put this down to experience, and remember in the future that it's not always a good idea to involve friends in 'business' arrangements!

Actually she also said that maybe it wasn't such a good idea for her to mix business with pleasure, but I suppose neither of us contemplated anything like this ever happening. Even now, I don't regret starting lessons with her. Every Monday I've been to her house, around her and her kids, has been a real pleasure. I probably wouldn't bother learning to drive with any other instructor ... that's exactly why I haven't learned before now, and I'm nearly 25. So I still think it was the right thing for us to do, despite what's happened.

 

baddad & call me jaded: Yeah - I've made plenty of apologies - don't you worry about that one! And that includes a public apology too - just as public an apology as my initial "outing" of her was. I thought it was only right to do that, even though she insisted it wasn't necessary (like she's like that). We're getting there, slowly but surely, although our lessons have not yet resumed - it's been about a month now since my last one.

 

carole:

You sound quite a bit like my son David and although you are saying that you have no nice feelings I can't accept that.

True - I do have some nice feelings ... but only usually towards my friends (and even then, not all the time, as you've seen!). Even my own family doesn't benefit all that much from any niceness from me.

I certainly do and I bet that you have never sent a very private e-mail, about someone you do not like, to a very public board? I have And the message was all about how much I disliked one of the members who posted there.

No ... ... you do have me beat there! That's not something I've ever done, I don't think! I wouldn't put it past me though!

 

Elanor:

I think that the internet can disinhibit you - you say things that you simply wouldn't say face to face.

... how true that is.

 

asereht:

I pm'd you a while back and your reply was both nice and useful my son(14) seen me replying to you and insisted that I tell him what I asked you first so I showed him and when he read your reply he said " ah that was really nice of him" and agreed with your advice.

He doesn't usually take an interest or advice from people he doesn't know so you made a breakthrough!.

Thanks for that ... it is indeed nice to know I was able to make a breakthrough. (Although I can't actually remember what I said now! )

All the best to you and I am sure in time your friend will realise you are sorry and forgive and forget.

Yes - she does know I'm sorry ... still just waiting for her to be totally ready to see me in the flesh again.

 

Kazzen161:

Its a shame that a compromise could not be reached.

Yes - it's a shame, but I sure as hell won't be making any sort of an issue out of it ever again, from now on! It just ain't worth the hassle!

 

Viper:

Ok it may help you too but I bet we get so much more from you than you do from us.

Actually that's a fair point - you're right there.

On the subject of saying happy birthday to people you don't know, why would you? I don't wake up in the morning and say "happy birthday everyone in the world who has a birthday today" and if you did say happy birthday to these people they wouldn't think any more of you they would wonder why someone who they don't know is wishing them H/B.

Other people do though - that's the thing.

 

KarenT:

The internet is a minefield of over-sensitive, touchy feely types who want warm fuzzy hugs to make everything better.

Hey! That's me you're talking about there!!

I doubt very much that she'd behave this way with her 'proper' clients

She does actually. See what I wrote at the top of this post, when I was defending her.

Mistakes on both sides, agree to own 50% of the blame.

Actually I took all of the blame in the end. Not to worry!

 

Suze:

I hope you feel better today.

Yes - I do feel a little better today, thanks.

This is an order....torment yourself no longer!

Oooh! Yes, Ma'am!!

 

Thanks again, everybody. <'>

 

James

Edited June 23, 2005 by Gordie

[lil_me]

I'm honest, if I think something I say it, very rarely bite my lip as some call it, but doing this I have found out who my true friends are, they respect my honesty and ask my opinion knowing I won't say something to just keep them quiet. Exapmle friend of mine started seeing a girl well known in the area for being 'easy' as some might call it, he asks my opinion (he calls me Mam as most of my friends do even tho he is 10 years older than me) and I told him the truth, be careful & make sure you use protection, but if he's happy then I am but I can see it all ending in tears. He was shocked as she was sat in the back seat of my car and he was in the front when he asked me, but I'm honest,what you see is what you get with me. I wouldn't say anything behind someones back that I would not say to their face.

 

My son (ASD) is the same, he will tell someone they stink if they do (happened in the bank few weeks ago with a lady with strong perfume ) he will say if he doesn't like someone and won't be nice to keep the peace.

 

 

Gordie - I've found some of the replies to post you have written extremely informative and interesting, its kind of an insiders view on Autism/Aspergers which is very helpful to parents.

Edited June 23, 2005 by lil_me

[Suze]

Gordie after reading your last post I just wanted to write and say in a not too luvvy way like we web users do.......what an insightful message it was on your part.You have admitted to us all what happened ,taken the blame, realise what you did was wrong, and can completely recognise your wrong doing.Your remorse shows that you" can,t "truly be such a bad person as it,s plain to see to all who read.It would be nice if everyone realised their mistakes and felt as sorry as you do.Sadly a lot of people don,t .....coming on here and admitting to everyone your faux paus was very brave, you,ve got many fine characteristics don,t forget....and thats an order!

[Gordie]

Thanks, Suze.

 

Although this is a very supportive forum all-in-all, and is well-moderated to ensure nothing nasty or inappropriate is said to anyone. However, as I said in my last post, I also made a public apology on that other message board ... a place that is almost completely unmoderated (or at least uncensored), and as long as it's not illegal, any comment will get through the net there. So posting here wasn't as brave as that was.

 

James

[TuX]

 

I'm a horrible person - I really am. I try hard not to let it show in public, coz I selfishly don't want to lose my friends with my nastiness. But deep down, I'm not a nice guy at all.

 

There's this other message board I use a lot that is very general-purpose indeed. Absolutely anything goes there, and it's not for any specific group of people. So I read all sorts of posts, on all sorts of topics.

 

Most people respond positively, with something nice to say, but a lot of the time I just think to myself not-so-nice things (to put it mildly).

 

Let me give you some examples ...

 

Happy birthday messages are often posted for members whose birthdays are on that particular day. But if I don't know that person, I think to myself, "Can't be bothered to wish them a happy birthday - I don't know them."

I do not think a person can be horrible just because they don't say happy birthday and other stuff to others on a message board-you gave a good reason for not doing so,it's not like you said you were trying to be nasty.

 

 

I happen to think the same way as you to,when birthdays are advertised on a forum,there are loads of people saying the same thing, "happy birthday,hope you have a good day" I just cannot believe they actually mean it because they do not know the person personally,

and people shouldn't think they have to say something just because the thread is there,

or just because the member happens to be popular.

Being honest about it is better than saying something and not meaning it(lying)

Edited June 25, 2005 by TuX

[littlenemo]

Horrible - you're not even in the amateur division. For an example of horrible, here's an example of what I find funny:

 

My father-in-law is a truly horrible man - selfish, arrogant, chauvinist, abusive, etc. etc. (And he's NT, so no excuses there).Even his own body hates him (along with several of his organs, his heart tried to quit, so he's now on a pacemaker).

But he does find gadgets irresistable.

 

It was Com's birthday this week and he got a torch that works without batteries - you just shake it and it charges up. Big safety warning - Strong Magnetic Field - do not use near computers, etc. etc. and pacemakers .

Granddad's coming to visit tomorrow - it could be the best day of my life!

 

So where does not wishing strangers Happy Birthday rank on that scale?

[Zemanski]

Com has been told he mustn't show the torch to Grandad!!!!!

 

Zemanski

[littlenemo]

Not by me he hasn't

 

nemo

[Zemanski]

I told him the minute you discovered the warning

 

Zemanski

[Guest flutter]

luv it nemo and zemanski

 

may be handy not to let child do it tho ?? possibly even hide it

i have a few peeps in my life who i openly nasty about ( mum espec) who others find shocking, but i am honest, and when push come to shove kids were honest about how little they liked them,

[littlenemo]

I've told Com why he mustn't give the torch to grandad and as cupboard love is a great motivator (grandad is a good source of regular lump sums and a lot more generous than mum and dad - at least to beloved, perfect grand children ) so I'm pretty confident it will stay under his pillow for the next few days

 

Z

[Gordie]

So where does not wishing strangers Happy Birthday rank on that scale?

Okay! Maybe not quite as high as your mischievious mind is prepared to go!

 

But still, it just feels like I'm doing wrong, even though it seems right to me. Maybe I should tell my best friend (the one I badly offended the other week) not to post "happy birthday"s to people she doesn't know (which she does all the time, coz she's so nice like that), just because she can't possibly mean it. I'm sure that would go down really well!

 

James