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Karen A

Advice needed please.

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Hello to all.

 

Nice new Forum I hardly recognise it. :notworthy:

 

I have not been an active Forum member for many months and my life is busy as ever with more things than before [alas none of which I am payed for] :) so I will not be back on a regular basis.However I need some specific advice and wonder if anyone has any ideas.

 

Ben is 13 and a half, doing very well academically and socially although not without continued input from myself.We have a tranistion review in early February and are also looking at GCSE options.Ben is currently at level 7 in most subjects and 8 in one or two.However he still appears to have major problems with organisation and has been getting along to this point because he could remember things well.He has access to ICT written into his Statement and we are anticipating he will be given extra time in exams and will use a different room.

 

Any thoughts regarding where we can obtain some other ideas about appropriate support with GCSES.Ben is at a mainstream comprehensive and although the ASD outreach team are helpful I suspect that support for very able pupils with AS/DCD is probably an area more familiar to some of the Specialist Residential Provision.

 

We are thinking about asking for an EP to come along to the AR but any ideas or pointers to books would be appreciated.

 

Thanks Karen.

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Hi Karen, good to see you! Ben's problems sound so familiar. Wish I knew the answers! What help does he get at the moment with organisation?

 

K x

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This is a link to an American website that I found very informative. http://www.schoolbeh...ve-dysfunction/

 

The kind of difficulties you are describing are under executive functions, and probably fall under ASD as well eg. problems with planning, organising, time management, predicting outcomes etc.

 

Yes, I think it would be an idea for you to ask the school to invite the EP and any other professional that has worked with your son ie. the speech and language therapist. What input will they have at this secondary school??

 

The SALT's remit is also social communication, emotional communication etc. As he is moving into a teenager environment, alot of social activity is based around 'language'. And you say yourself he has needs in this area. Those needs must be in part 2 of his Statement with something in part 3 to meet that need - and it must be quantified and specified.

 

Write down what you think his main difficulties are, and also could be [because the Education Act talks about "likely future needs"]. And ask the EP HOW those needs will be met.

 

For example, if he has to write essays or complete topics, how is he going to do that. Does he have the skills currently to work on his own, organise and plan it and produce a relevent on-topic piece of work? If not, what does the EP say his needs are, and how does she say that need will be met. And all that MUST be included in the Statement.

 

The move to secondary school is very daunting. It is moving from being the biggest and best in a small pool, to being the smallest and weakest in a big pool. He will be expected to be independent and to work on his own and to ask for help if he needs it. All these things do not come naturally to those on the spectrum. For example, he may not even know what he needs to do, or even recognise that he needs to ask for help; or may not know who to go to or what to say.

 

You need to also think about environmental things. Will he cope with moving from class to class for each lesson. Will he cope during break and dinnertimes.

 

Remember that whatever is written into the Statement has to be provided by the school and funded by the LA. If they say "we cannot possibly provide a TA just for xxxx throughout the day because we only have funding for one TA per class." That is all rubbish. If you have in writing a need that your son must be supported for throughout the day for xx hours, then that has to be included in the Statement and then legally it has to be provided."

 

There is no monetary limit on what a Statement can provide. Infact SEN Guidance to speech therapits specifically states that they must NOT make recommendations that are within what their service can provide. They MUST identify each and every need and must make provision for it without considering what resources are available. That is because 'available resources' are irrelevent with SEN law states that the LA has to fund the Statement. And that is what Case law upholds.

 

Don't anticipate or assume anything. Get it in writing.

Edited by Sally44

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Hi Karen, good to see you! Ben's problems sound so familiar. Wish I knew the answers! What help does he get at the moment with organisation?

 

K x

 

 

Hi.

Currently as far as I can gather.Ben has two periods per week which he spends with the SENCO or her PA.He misses drama and PAL for these which is fine by him.These periods are used for a mix of help with planning for exams,dealing with problems with teachers which occur on a frequent basis.Usually because Ben tells a teacher in less than diplomatic fashion that their facts are wrong or lesson planning inadequate,or for support with dealing with issues with other pupils.

 

Ben has TA support in some lessons but it is difficult to judge how much he uses it.He uses a laptop for an increasing number of lessons because his handwriting is not in line with his output of work.This works well but there is currently no system for transfering work into books or folders.Work done on sheets comes home in a muddle and Ben then throws it out at periodic intervals when it gets too much.Up to now this has not been such a problem because most classes are mixed ability and he appears to pass tests without revision.

 

I spend a fair amount of time each week Emailing teachers to find out when exams are,deal with problems as they occur.I anticipate it will be a little better once Ben is doing options that he enjoys however I am currently fulfilling the role of a PA I suppose.The problem is that Ben could have more help but is reluctant to accept it.He tells the SENCO not to worry about printing things he will just Email them to dad at work.

 

Ben also gets very stressed out about exams.He does fine in them generally but ends up anxious all day.He ends up looking exhausted.The ASD outreach teacher has suggested flexible days around exams but it is something wel will need to think about.As Ben is very able there is pressure for him to sit some GCSES a year early.I also know with J who is in year 11 that exams or controlled assessments appear to happen frequently from year 10.It may be that we need to push for Ben to do fewer options than he is capable of.

 

Ben does not have any SALT or ASD outreach input specified in his Statement.SALT discharged him just before christmas as he had had no input for a year.I had extremely strong words with the senior SALT for the NHS trust as I had mild concussion at the time......but it appears there is no SALT provision in our area for mainstream pupils who have Social Communication Difficulties without other speech and language needs.

 

If we insist we can probably get ASD outreach input specified however we still have the age old problem that that would use up curriculum time.The SENCO has suggested that Ben stays at homework club next year with an allocted TA to help him out but we have not broached that idea with him yet.The school reduced the school day and they now finish at 1500 which does not allow for lunch time activities.

 

Karen.

Edited by Karen A

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"Ben does not have any SALT or ASD outreach input specified in his Statement.SALT discharged him just before christmas as he had had no input for a year.I had extremely strong words with the senior SALT for the NHS trust as I had mild concussion at the time......but it appears there is no SALT provision in our area for mainstream pupils who have Social Communication Difficulties without other speech and language needs."

 

The above is not true IF you have a SALT report that states he has a, b and c as his needs and must have xx hours of 1:1 therapy, or a social communication programme of xx hours per term, or an emotional literacy programme of xx hours per term etc - then that is what will go into the Statement and the LA MUST fund it by law.

 

For forget about what they are saying they cannot do. Whatever their internal criteria is, it is always trumped by SEN legal law when that provision is in a Statement and is quantified and specified.

 

I understand what you are saying about cutting into his actual learning time. But it maybe worthwhile dropping a subject he isn't going to excel in, or is not interested in, so that these other more important things are done.

 

Afterall, he could leave school with brilliant exam results, but have no idea how to hold a conversation, socialise, form friendships etc. These are also just as important for him.

 

The SALT Guidance for writing reports for a Tribunal categorically states that provison should not be determined on what resources the SALT department has. The SALT should identify every need and make provison for each need regardless of what provision is available because whether the SALT department has the budget or SALT's available is irrelevent when SEN Legal law says that the LA has to fund the Statement. That basically means the LA has to buy in whatever the school or NHS cannot provide as standard.

 

What you will definately find difficulty with is getting an NHS SALT to identify every need and quantify and specify provision. To get SALT input reinstated you most likely will have to get an independent SALT and you will have to lodge an appeal with the SEN Tribunal service against parts 2 and 3 of his Statement.

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I don't know if this link will work, but here goes. http://www.bing.com/...Box&FORM=IE8SRC

 

You want to click on the first option in the list ie. www.helpwithtalking.com

 

When you read it you will see that what you are being told is not true.

 

Print if off.

 

Look specifically at section 3, paragraphs. 3.2.1 and 3.3.1 and 3.4.3.

 

However this is guidance for reports being written for a SEND Tribunal. Until you are actually going to a Tribunal the LA professionals and NHS professionals can evade the legal requirements. It is ONLY at a SEN Tribunal that the Panel will Order that all needs identified are included in part 2 with provision to meet them in part 3.

 

So you could ask the Head of SALT department how she is carrying out her Duty of Care towards your son when she has not identified all his needs and has not quantified and specified how those needs will be met. What standardised assessments has she carried out that confirm to her that he no longer has any Speech and Language therapy, or a Social Communication group/therapy needs. Ask her to show you in writing and through speech therapy targets being achieved how she has come to the decision to discharge him.

 

Standardised Assessments have a whole battery of sub-assessments and typically children with an ASD/Aspergers perform well on some and poor on others. Typically NHS SALTs only carry out the sub-assessments that will give an 'around average' score. My son's SALT assessment results varied from 1 [where 3 is classed as severe] to 14/15 [where 8/13 is classed as average]. And I researched the assessments myself and ask the SALT why she had not carried out certain parts of that assessment, and I asked her to complete them next time. When she did, that is when she found his 'severe' difficulties with formulating sentences. On researching that particular sub-assessment I discovered that the purpose of that sub-test is to give a clear indication of the "a child's ability to access learning and record it in a classroom environment."

 

That is when it became clear why she had not done that sub-assessment before.

 

It also took me three years before I twigged on and asked the SALT to assess my son's 'social communication and interaction skills'. And again we found he had some severe difficulties in certain areas.

 

A child can be as gifted as Einstein and still have special educational needs in other areas such as those you are saying your son has.

 

Does your son have a Statement?

 

At aTribunal the LA has to either meet his needs at his current school. If they cannot do it, you have every right to seek an independent ASD specific placement for academically able students, so that all his needs will be met. I can guarantee that the LA will be falling over themselves to provide support at his current placement, rather than have to pay the school fees of an independent school.

 

It all depends on what you want to achieve. But as you can see, the SALT is being very economical with the truth. She should not have discharged your son. He does have SALT needs simply because he has to have clinically significant difficulties with speech and language and communication to get a diagnosis in the first place. He isn't cured and he wasn't misdiagnosed. So how have those SALT needs disappeared???

 

So just bear this all in mind because although he maybe coping at the moment, things could go downhill very quickly and it would be very useful for you to have a Statement in place that has involved standardised assessments and that the Statement is worded legally and quantifies and specifies.

 

Because that will mean that under the Statement his needs will be being met at his current school and IF things deteriorate you have a baseline of his abilities and what level of provison has not worked.

 

Lack of progress and/or deterioration or school refusal etc is all evidence that either more support/therapies are needed or a different placement is needed.

Edited by Sally44

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Why is Ben having a transition review at 13 and a half?? Is he at middle school??

 

Hi.

It is the year 9 transition review in the COP.Planning ahead for post sixteen and adulthood.

We are looking at GCSE options and also planning ahead for a possible move post sixteen.A local sixth form provision has a wider range of courses for post sixteen in subjects like photography,graphics and other visual arts.Ben may be happier to do this rather than A levels.Although he could probably do A levels I am not sure where it will lead.

 

We are unlikely to win at tribunal.Ben is doing very well academically.He is finding some things in school very difficult but these are whole school issues.An independent school is not an option because it would need to be residential , Ben is very happy at home with us and I believe his right to a family life currently outweighs any gains to be made by a move to residential.

 

Also a close friend has a son with profound ASD and the family are at the end of being able to manage due to the need for twenty four hour support.They have been attempting to obtain residential placement since the summer and have not obtained agreement yet.Ben is about as far towards the oppposite end of the ASD spectrum as one could imagine.I don't think we would have a case.

 

 

 

 

Karen.

Edited by Karen A

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It is a shame that there is nowhere that is ASD specific near enough for Ben to be a day student.

 

And often it is ONLY when the child is not coping in school to the extent that they are no longer at school, that this type of placement becomes an option.

 

I was told by my independent SALT that the Panel will NEVER recommend that a child's placement is one that he is currently refusing to attend.

 

Also it does not matter how well Ben is doing academically.

 

The Statement is always about identifying and meetings needs. Ben still has those eg. the planning and organising of his work. And he also has speech and language and social communication needs.

 

You can still go to a SEN Tribunal over parts 2 and 3. You just need written evidence of his needs. If the LA or NHS professionals will not do that, and will not quantify and specify, then the Panel will do that for you.

 

The LA will take those professionals as their expert witnesses to the Tribunal, and they may argue that Ben does not have any needs that need supporting. However if you have documented evidence that he is struggling with certain things, then it is worth going to Appeal.

 

If you can afford for an independent report that uses standardised assessments of his speech and language and social communication skills, that is even better.

 

As you will see from the SALT Guidance, SALT recommendations should not be made taking into account current resources. The resources available are irrelevent because everything Ben needs should be funded by the school and if they can't fund it the LA must. And you may find that although he is doing very well academically, on his SALT scores he may have areas where he has severe difficulties. If anything can be done to either support or improve those skills it is worth it because it will mean he is more capable as an adult.

 

You need to think about what Bens needs are now, and are likely to be in the near future, and get them in his Statement so that he receives that support. Because that can be the difference between things working, or not. And when things start to go down hill, it can be very fast. Then you are playing catch up, because by then ben maybe 15 and the whole Tribunal process can take about a year.

 

If you start an Appeal the LA may decide to give you what you are after anyway.

 

Believe me, the professionals involved will have come across children like Ben before. They are perfectly aware of what a child like Ben may need to support him. But you may never get it without challenging the Statement via a Tribunal. Unfortunately that is just the way it always is.

Edited by Sally44

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