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A-S warrior

homosexuality and christian teachings

11 posts in this topic

one thing i cant stand is ignorance, dont get me wrong, i love my god and what my religon represents (for the most part) but what i cant stand is pepole preeching that gays, lesbians, transexuals, bisexuals, trisexuals, quadrasexuals, etc are wrong. i find this absurd and quite frankly insulting and downright igorant. im a hetrosexual but that doesnt mean i cant in my own head transualate and see that gays can feel love like strait pepole do. the bible says that its not love with gays, its lust. how do they know that?!!! how do the preechers know that? cant they see that there debunking there own logic? its as natural as being strait is. god does things in such a way that we learn acceptance and tolerence, exactly why he created gays, and it also keeps the population down. i love my church but i hate this narrow mindedness. why cant they see the basic 1+1=2 logic that i see? it really is as simple as that! the only thing that is a sin in this argument imo is sheer ignorance. but unfortunatley that isnt a sin, i wonder why?

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Big debate with a relatively short answer from me - the bible isn't always right - yes there are some very sound teachings in it but it was written between 1900 and 3500 years ago (approx.) and I guess some things have changed since then.

 

 

It also wouldn't surprise me if much older religions were more at ease with stuff like this...

 

 

My main contention with any religious document written by people, is that they were written by people, so someone had to choose what went it there and what got left out - there's numerous theories about missing parts and sacred documents...

 

 

What really blows my mind though - is the thought of how different things could be or could have been if different stuff was in religious books.

 

 

But as I see it, love is love, is doesn't matter who you are, what your sexual preferences are, or what gender you are...

 

 

I think on this subject the church needs to reconsider - but how do they do that if they believe in everything else?

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the problem is alot of my friends at the church are like robots. they wont hear of anything that contridicts the bible. i often bring up very very valid arguments at our debate group and they pretend i havent said anything. some are open to a good debate but some just dont say a word.

 

nice coluor by the way, the words were like skittles lol.

Edited by A-S warrior

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the problem is alot of my friends at the church are like robots. they wont hear of anything that contridicts the bible. i often bring up very very valid arguments at our debate group and they pretend i havent said anything. some are open to a good debate but some just dont say a word.

 

That's difficult.... My mum goes to church and she tends to be a bit robotic too, kinda annoys me!!

 

I guess it's a case of finding the people willing to discuss things and making the most of those people.

 

nice coluor by the way, the words were like skittles lol.

 

Thanks - I figured since it's late that it'd be nice to not have a massive chunk of black text to kill our eyes :)

Edited by darkshine

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Before I begin, yes I am a Christian (sort of) and no I am not a homophobe, nor do I hate transgender people.

 

However the fact remains that if one reads the Bible there are one or two passages which say that 'man shall not lay down with man', which really means that gay partners cannot have sex with each other.

 

This does NOT mean that gays cannot be together, it only prohibits gay sex.

 

Also with regards to transgender people there is a passage which says that men who do not cover the heads in the appropriate male covering are a disgrace and women who dress and act like men are an abomination in the sight of the Lord.

 

That is the ONLY reason why Christians hate people of, how shall I put it, an 'alternative' sexual bent.

 

The only other possible reason why they hate people who choose to express themselves in the manners which I have just described, is that Christians have what are called 'old world values'.

 

These do not really date back to the time of Christ, but rather, to the 19th Century.

 

The best place to see those values in action is the Hays code era Hollywood movies of the mid 1930s to early 1960s.

 

I would also like to point out that while I do not think that gays shouldn't have sex or that transgender people grin and bear it, with regards to their bodies.

 

I am only stating my understanding of traditional Christian values/views as I have come to understand them.

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Thankfully, the Bible is silent on asexuality, so I'm saved from that being a potential 'sin'. :P

Ironically, people find it harder to grasp than being lesbian, gay, bisexual, etc.

 

By the way the book of Leviticus lists some pretty foul punishments in the name of religion, such as stoning women to death for adultery, and much more. So much for the God of Christians, Jews and Moslems being a compassionate one. Reading the OT portryas him as jealous, narcissistic, vindictive, war-mongering, intolerant, capricious, sadistic....etc. Not my kind of God at all. :(

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I believe that God in its many forms has no bias towards anybody or anything. Everything in creation comes from what we or most people call God. I prefer the term source energy it's more reflective of the reality of every life form no matter what or where it is.

Most of what is said about religion comes from the human mind not the creator Itself so it will have flaws biased and confling ways just the same as every human you only need look at what we do to see that.

People will use God to support their own opinions berate others and to get their own way and create wealth, look at all the churches adorned with decorations and other religious places of worship they dont spare the decorations while people starve hardly the best use of funds when people need basic provisions.

Homosexuality is just one of the many things hated by bigoted people not God.

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I believe that God in its many forms has no bias towards anybody or anything. Everything in creation comes from what we or most people call God. I prefer the term source energy it's more reflective of the reality of every life form no matter what or where it is.

Most of what is said about religion comes from the human mind not the creator Itself so it will have flaws biased and confling ways just the same as every human you only need look at what we do to see that.

People will use God to support their own opinions berate others and to get their own way and create wealth, look at all the churches adorned with decorations and other religious places of worship they dont spare the decorations while people starve hardly the best use of funds when people need basic provisions.

Homosexuality is just one of the many things hated by bigoted people not God.

 

AMEN, to that Bro.

 

Just for the record I wasn't trying to promote bigoted views from the Bible (or rather the versions that the Church puts out) but rather explain why Christians believe that being gay is sinful.

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Religiously disposed people are attracted to particular religions (when allowed a choice) that match their personality and temperament, e.g. In the Abrahamic faiths an authoritarian personality is attracted to authoritarian branches of their religion, that require blind obedience to a hierarchy as well as to 'sacred writings', as interpreted by that hierarchy. (This psychological factor is the cause of the countless schisms within religions, and the cause of religion itself). The founder of a break-away sect interprets the 'holy book' in a way that conforms with his pre-existing personality traits. The hierarchy or elders simply follow their leader, and occasionally some my break away over some doctrinal issue to form their own sect. The flock simply follow whatever their elders dictate.

However, that's the general rule, for children and vulnerable adults are easily manipulated into joining whatever sect or denomination their manipulators/abusers belong to. Sects and cults attract disproportionate numbers of vulnerable people, especially those with mental health problems and who are no position to make decisions for themselves. Often these people are lonely or desperately seeking help, which makes them easy prey. This brainwashing of the young and vulnerable can cause much psychological damage, often lifelong.

 

As for atypical sexual orientations, the Abrahamic faiths, especially their fundamentalist wings, are obsessed with anything sexual. Usually the most pious ones are the most sexually repressed. Piety and perversion are often different sides of the same coin. They deny their own sexual 'demons' and project them onto others - 'sodomites', 'fornicators', 'onanists', adulterers, 'loose women', etc. (Significantly, lesbianism is not listed in the 613 laws of Judaism, and nor was it ever an offence in English law). This tendency is strongest in hard-line Islam, extreme Orthodox Judaism and American-style Christian fundamentalism (including JW's & Mormons) - products of Puritan Protestantism. They create numerous elaborate rules related to sexual matters, usually based upon the Old Testament (esp. Leviticus). Catholics dealt with this in a different way by using confession to absolve them of their sins. Anti-gay propaganda is much more closely associated with the US Christian Right and European fascism than with the Catholic Church or mainstream Anglicanism.

None of this joyless repression results from Christian teachings. It all originates in Jewish law, and as far I know there's nothing in the Bible that relates to Jesus having anything to say on sexual matters, however, as a Jew, he had a religious duty to marry and produce offspring - and I strongly suspect that he did.

Edited by Mihaela

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Religion is an area that I have taken an interest in and like you I don't believe the generally excepted account of the life of Jesus as is portrayed to us in the bible.

The most vulnerable people are so open to brainwashing and religion is an area where people can easily be led if you are inclined to have those particular inclinations. Even if your not particularly vulnerable it's easy to conclude how manipulation of the mind can easily be achieved even if your not aware that it's actually being applied.

You only have to look at the many wars and persecutions in its name to realise that it's human kinds traits not religion that causes these problems this ranges from the manipulated people to those that manipulate to further their own agendas and needs.

JW are just one of many that have simply got it wrong, any religion that states implies or indicates anything other than peace compassion love and unity is not from any God, only humanity causes suffering in the name of God.

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I'm not a christian, but many of the christian people I have known are wonderful people and real ambassadors of their faith.

 

I have also had a lot of run ins with fundamentalists and will admit to having a little fun at their expense.

 

The problem is many christians do not understand their own religion.

 

The Jewish relationship with God is one of a covenant of law and obedience. This 'failed' and so God sent Jesus to set a new covenant, one of grace and forgiveness. Yet so many still revert back to the old laws when it suits their prejudices, often failing to see their context.

 

To give an example on one hand many believe abortion is wrong and is murder dooming those involved to eternal damnation, on the other they are happy to quote 'an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth' to justify themselves.

 

The quote appears once in the bible, and it is discussing the penalties if two men are drunk and fighting resulting in harm to a pregnant woman. In the same section if they cause harm to an unborn child the law is clear about what should happen. The father, not mother, can set a sum to be compensated for the loss of the unborn child. However if the person who caused the loss of life feels this is set too high they can take it to the judges to make a final decision. So the value of the unborn child is what the father decides what it is but can be tempered by another man (judge).

 

Another thing often overlooked is the only example of Jesus sending his apostles out to speak to people about him and his teaching he specifically told them to ignore the gentiles - non Jews. It wasn't until after his death and ascension that men decided to include gentiles. Talk about the dilemma of dying and finding you picked the wrong religion.

 

Nothing however demonstrates the personal prejudices of the religious bigots than their attitude to sexual matters, and gay sex in particular, but are far more tolerant toward adulterers, fornicators etc.

 

On a lighter note, do you know the oldest make of motorbike? In the old testament it says of King David that they heard the roar of his triumph across the lands.

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