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Vaccinations....positive or negative?


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#1 Merry

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:41 PM

I found another thread from a few years ago titled `vaccinations` and it didn't have a single response.
So I'm interested...

Does anyone else here have an interest in this subject?

Does anyone here feel they have a vaccine-injured child or have suffered the loss of a child due to vaccination?

Does anyone here feel that their own problems may have been a result of vaccination?

Does anyone know of other families who have been negatively affected in any way by vaccination?

Is anyone here pro-vaccination, and for what reasons? If you are, is it because you have researched the subject, or have had positive experiences with them, or simply because you are trusting of authority?

I personally believe that it makes people of all ages very ill and sometimes it causes death. I believe it is responsible for cot death, shaken baby syndrome, infertility, and may well be the cause of autism/autistic seeming disorders, kidney failure, failure to thrive, plus more....it's a very emotional subject for me as i'm sure it is for everyone...so lets tred gently. I'm not here to change anybody's views, but i will present links and quotes as evidence if asked for. Really, my intention is just to gather people's thoughts on the subject and i will do my best to restrain my emotions so please do the same. But i have a feeling nobody will reply anyway.

#2 Suze

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:02 PM

Just a warning as this subject has been discussed on the forum before in many guises, MMR etc.It invariably leads to a heated discussion and moderation as I,m sure you,ll find if you search out the old threads.I personally don,t like the title of the thread either.Anyhow ...................I,ll step away now :ph34r:

#3 Merry

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:14 PM

Well feel free to remove it Suze if you feel that's the best thing to do. I won't be offended in the slightest. I was hoping purely to gather information about people's opinions on the subject but sometimes, with an emotional subject, emotions can't simply be left out of people's responses and i understand that. The last thing i want is to deal with knowing i've upset anybody. That would only cause me distress.

#4 Suze

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:22 PM

We will see how it pans out Merry .......... :peace:

#5 A-S warrior

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:22 PM

We'll be watching ;)

#6 Merry

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:25 PM

I have tried to edit the title to something like "Vaccinations....positive or negative?" But i can't find a way to do this. Could you please do it for me? On reflection I see your point about the title! Thank you. Again, I doubt there will be much interest in the subject anyway.

#7 A-S warrior

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:27 PM

Done.

Is the title ok for you? I can change it again if you want?

#8 Suze

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:32 PM

Better title less lightly to incite an argument :notworthy:

#9 Special_talent123

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:34 PM

no vaccines does not cause autism.

#10 Merry

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:40 PM

Thank you! Ok Special Talent. Do you think there is a cause? Or do you think it's genetic, or because of a lack of parental bonding etc...i've read a lot of different theories lately about what `normal` people think the cause is. I'm toying with the idea at the moment, that it's just a natural part of the human race and not necessarily a condition...just a type if you know what i mean...or maybe a part of evolution or something. What is your opinion? :)

#11 Special_talent123

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:47 PM

No, and i disagree with anything antivax. I know someone made there autism regress by using vaccines to treat them. No i dont think there is a cause but it just means our brain functions differently. I dont know when i had vaccinations but mum noticed my issues when i was either 18 weeks or months.

#12 Merry

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:55 PM

That's really interesting- Thanks. :)

#13 Sa Skimrande

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 04:11 PM

Thank you! Ok Special Talent. Do you think there is a cause? Or do you think it's genetic, or because of a lack of parental bonding etc...i've read a lot of different theories lately about what `normal` people think the cause is. I'm toying with the idea at the moment, that it's just a natural part of the human race and not necessarily a condition...just a type if you know what i mean...or maybe a part of evolution or something. What is your opinion? :)


This, as you know given my knowledge of history

And genetic via the 'x' chromosome.

#14 robert7111a

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:23 PM

I will step forward and disagree to (some) vaccinations. And I disagree strongly with a lot of polical policy regarding mass vaccination.

I do not buy herd immunity

And there I shall leave it...

#15 Merry

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:08 PM

Thanks for your input Robert :)

#16 Lyndalou

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 06:33 PM

I will step forward and disagree to (some) vaccinations. And I disagree strongly with a lot of polical policy regarding mass vaccination.

I do not buy herd immunity

And there I shall leave it...

These are my feelings also. There was a time when I would have said that anyone who was against vaccinations were putting their own children and other children at risk and it wasn't that long ago. Then I had my second child and I had to make a decision; would I vaccinate her or not? More specifically, would I let her have the MMR?

It was a difficult decision to make but I based my decision NOT to vaccinate her on an interesting book I read; ''The Truth about Vaccines - How we are used as Guineapigs without knowing it' by Richard Halvorsen as well as the view of two mums I know who do feel that their children were somehow 'vaccine damaged'. This book remains on the market and the author has never been sued for what he is written. He cites information obtained under the Freedom of Information Act about meetings held behind closed doors between polititians, pharmaceutical companies and the World Health Organisation and provides evidence of discussions where various scientists or doctors express concerns about the effectiveness of various vaccinations or lack of long-term studies of health or vaccination benefits.

The author remains a practicing doctor who provides single vaccines and provides advice on which vaccines may benefit children on an individual basis dependant on the child's own health history and health history of family members. His view is that a small amount of children MAY be more likely to develop autism (and I stress MAY) if they have asthma, excema or hay-fever or have had recurrent coughs, colds and ear infections or have family members who have diabetes, MS or thyroid disease.

He believes that vaccination plays it's part in providing health benefits but that 'herd immunity', especially with certain vaccines is a myth and that 'boosters' have been introduced as some of these vaccines have been found to provide much less vaccination protection than thought when they were initially introduced. Hence, being used as 'Guineapigs' because quite literally, a lot of 'proof' of effectiveness is based on spin and simply getting the general public to believe that spin.

Edited by Lyndalou, 07 January 2013 - 06:38 PM.


#17 Lynden

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:12 PM

I know people who swear their children were developing normally until they were vaccinated. However, in our case L was definitely displaying many autistic traits before we even considered the MMR. He was informally diagnosis by a paed before he had his MMR. In my mind it's largely genetic though I don't doubt there are some environmental issues in some cases.

#18 robert7111a

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:20 PM

Here's an example in my case. I work in a profession where we are expected to get flu vaccination each year. But aren't vaccines supposed to give immunity for life?. Not the flu vaccine. We are told that the efficacy of it wears off wihin a year, hence the reason people have to have the vaccine. And how can the current strain be predicted for the upcoming season each year when manufacture is in the spring?

Everybody I work with gets the flu vaccine each year - and they fall ill every year. This is enough to put me off.

#19 Sa Skimrande

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:58 PM

Here's an example in my case. I work in a profession where we are expected to get flu vaccination each year. But aren't vaccines supposed to give immunity for life?. Not the flu vaccine. We are told that the efficacy of it wears off wihin a year, hence the reason people have to have the vaccine. And how can the current strain be predicted for the upcoming season each year when manufacture is in the spring?

Everybody I work with gets the flu vaccine each year - and they fall ill every year. This is enough to put me off.


There are quite a lot of theories regarding the influenza vaccine which could be labelled rightly or wrongly as conspiracy theories;

One could be well there's money in it, vaccines cost and there is a lot of snake oil advocates about as where there is money, there is always dishonesty.

Another could be, every wondered why it is whenever there is a bug going around TV adverts suddenly appear promoting old and new remedies and of the new, they aren't cheap, but when someone is suffering badly they will try anything which includes the new as seen on tv wonder medication that appears to work.

But I didn't know that, that those who get vaccinated actually come down with the illness, that beggars belief and proffers the question exactly what is the point and with that, what a waste of money. But if the forthcoming season's bugs are designed in the spring, does anyone ever consider mutation as people appear to modify bugs.

Remember the BSE epidemic that was found to be possibly due to sloppy lab practices and could have been avoided if Britain did what other countries do, but the slaughter of our herds made us reliant on imports as we are for just about everything else.

I don't get debilitating bugs, sure I get the occasional sniffle but it is always fast cycling with me and usually gone within twelve hours, it has always been the same and I have worked for much of my life in close contact to sewerage where the only real worry was leptospirosis and tetanus.

#20 trekster

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 10:06 PM

i know my IBS got worse after a booster injection. i was upset with my university because
they tricked me into having a mumps booster which was in fact the MMR.

#21 Lyndalou

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 10:34 PM

In November or December 2011 my parents both received their yearly flu vaccinations. They are both advised to have these shots as my dad has serious heart problems and my mum has asthma. After they had their vaccinations they both became very unwell, my dad more so than my mum. He spent much of last January either in bed or stuck in the house. It started with 'flu' symptoms with aching joints and pounding headaches and then the way he described it was that he was 'revisiting' every injury he'd had in his life from sprained wrists to broken toes. He then got the terrible itchy rash he had been having on and off for a year beforehand quite badly and was driven mad by it. He was back and forward to the GP all last year and not until the end of the year was he taken seriously and he was referred to a specialist for tests. It turns out that he has something called Sweet Syndrome and they are currently trying to figure out the 'type' he has. It may be that his medication, vaccinations or a viral infection have contributed to this condition. Although it was never confirmed (there's a surprise!), many people in my parent's town fell seriously ill after their flu vaccinations in Nov or Dec 2011 and there was 'talk' that it was a 'faulty batch' which was withdrawn quickly. It's likely that my dad has had Sweet Syndrome for quite some time but then he has been having these shots for years too! Tell me, what exactly is a 'faulty batch'?.

#22 Sa Skimrande

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 10:53 PM

Faulty batch can mean anything and can be used to hide other deficiencies, but if suggestion of a faulty batch, what was it doing in circulation and questions have to be asked why was the vaccine faulty and why were safeguards to protect the public not adhered to.

But I have found for me to get action regards my ailments I have to take action as past experience is that of being ignored and so it was an issue 22 years old I researched myself and came up with a conclusion only requiring testing and I was proved correct and it would have stopped there, but I have continued to push and now they have found something else which has suddenly created a lot of interest all of a sudden where I am being urged to comply and I wasn't going to until I accessed med papers myself and discovered a potential for a life threatening condition if testing is not carried out and so, I shall comply and if they want to write it up in their research so be it, if it helps others in the future because I do not wish what I have been through with this on anyone. But I got action by I believe meeting the medical establishment half way by giving them a poke in the right direction and I did this via this wonderful medium we have, the internet, which is a more advanced version of the old family medical handbook.

But in time it will happen and I am all for it despite the potential for abuse, I am all for the genetic testing of those born so the medical establishment know exactly what is in the population and can hopefully become more attentive to those it says it serves and being ignored and abused can become a thing of the past.

The only thing I don't trust is politicians and that is the potential for abuse.

#23 robert7111a

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 11:53 PM

Lyndalou, I'm really sorry to hear about your parents. Something so unnecessary when one expects to trust the "experts"

I may be completely off the mark here but I do not buy "faulty batch". To me this sounds like an excuse/cover up. It has cost your dad dearly and this is unforgivable.

Pharmaceutical companies and politicians do not care about the welfare of the public. The swine flu was a complete hoax IMO but sadly I can't prove it. And there's another vaccine being touted towards a certain sector of teenagers which I won't mention here but the whole thing is a scam. I went to a school talk about it given by a public health professor and I knew he was lying because he felt so uncomfortable with some of the questions I had to ask. Plus he could not produce any credible scientific data to back up his sales pitch.

I don't wish to sound big-headed but the whole thing sickens me. People can write to the relevant manufacturers and get the ingredients - they're a real eye opener....

#24 Merry

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:38 AM

Just to note, as i mentioned in another thread, there is an article on VacTruth at the moment about MMR vaccines given to children in Africa who got very poorly shortly after. Parents are asking for help because although their government paid them money, these people don't know how to help their kids and want to know what caused it. They are discussing a faulty batch. There is evidence to show that the vaccines may not have been transported properly at the correct temperature.

I'm so glad that nobody is upset about this thread. It's good to simply hear people's opinions, whether they are for or against, it's just a subject which i struggle with in my own life due to having a child and the decisions which effect every parent. People have questioned whether my opinions in this case are being caused by my aspergers and need to look "Too deeply into things". And so i have to question my judgement daily....Wiithout risking upsetting anybody, i just wanted to hear what other people know and think because the constant reevaluation of my point of view is the only way to know that i am making the right decision. If real evidence comes up anywhere to show me i'm wrong, i'll make those appointments with the dr right away. So far, all i've read backs up my instincts.....unfortunately. Because our lives as parents would be much easier if we didn't have to ask the question which is the title of this thread.

Thank you so much for offering your insight.

Edited by Merry, 08 January 2013 - 12:41 AM.


#25 robert7111a

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 07:20 AM

Merry

Just a couple of final thoughts then on this matter....

The choice of whether to vaccinate or not is a personal one.

Whether you have aspergers or not makes no difference in my view....you must look into this properly in order to make an informed choice. Read widely on the empirical evidence, listen to other parents and go with your gut instinct.

Finally, you would normally look at the ingredients of what you buy in the shop (particularly if you/others have any food sensitivities) - the same goes for vaccines...look at the ingredients - often you can look these up or contact the relevant manufacturer.

Feel free to PM me if you want to continue this away from this topic...

#26 Lyndalou

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 07:59 AM

Lyndalou, I'm really sorry to hear about your parents. Something so unnecessary when one expects to trust the "experts"

I may be completely off the mark here but I do not buy "faulty batch". To me this sounds like an excuse/cover up. It has cost your dad dearly and this is unforgivable.

Pharmaceutical companies and politicians do not care about the welfare of the public. The swine flu was a complete hoax IMO but sadly I can't prove it. And there's another vaccine being touted towards a certain sector of teenagers which I won't mention here but the whole thing is a scam. I went to a school talk about it given by a public health professor and I knew he was lying because he felt so uncomfortable with some of the questions I had to ask. Plus he could not produce any credible scientific data to back up his sales pitch.

I don't wish to sound big-headed but the whole thing sickens me. People can write to the relevant manufacturers and get the ingredients - they're a real eye opener....

Thanks Robert for your kind thoughts. My mum got over it quickly but my dad was the one who suffered.

I'm pretty certain I know which vaccine you are alluding to and my thoughts on that are similar too. I feel that an entirely different health message should be being promoted and not that all their concerns will be alleviated by having an injection. I used to work with older people who were denied medication which had been proven to slow down the progression of dementia. It made me angry that this sector of the population (in Scotland) were being denied a medication that was proven to help an older person have a better quality of life for longer when another sector of the population were having money thrown at them to be given a medication which was not proven to have much (if any)long-term benefit and a young woman died from taking it. Of course, voicing this meant that I was asked 'So, you would put your own daughter at risk by not allowing her to have this?'. It's not that I'm against this vaccine per se, it's because the cause of the problem needs to be addressed, it doesn't just need a medication for people to feel they have carte blanche to treat their own bodies with disrespect.

Edited by Lyndalou, 08 January 2013 - 08:01 AM.


#27 Tarantamom

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 07:56 AM

Finally, you would normally look at the ingredients of what you buy in the shop (particularly if you/others have any food sensitivities) - the same goes for vaccines...look at the ingredients - often you can look these up or contact the relevant manufacturer.


Dramatic yes.


As for my feelings...eh. I could write you a novella on how I feel about vaccines, but in short, I don't understand the point...viruses mutate SO much that there is absolutely no way to effectively vaccinate against any existing virus-i.e. by the time the strains in the vaccine were injected into your bloodstream, the disease would have already mutated enough to be a completely different strain and thus...what? Then there's shedding...then there is the issue of vaccine adjuvants causing food allergies (that's not crazy talk, the inserts say so---i.e. peanut oil as an adjuvants is responsible for the rise in peanut allergies these days, gliadin proteins causing coeliac sprue, egg embryo gelatine ect ect) let alone the inflammatory preservatives and stabilizers...near lethal amounts of aluminum ect al.

The notion that vaccines cause autism is, in my opinion, complete and utter nonsense. Just like the theory that tylenol 'causes' AS, ect. My theory? The real reason these crazed rumours came to be, is that the inflammatory agents contained in these products-whether you agree as to them "working" or not-irritate the nervous system which can essentially make the sensory issues we experience feel much more vivid, and painful...Also, some neurological damage could render, in more severe cases, people unable to speak properly. I believe autistic folks are more sensitive and thus a vaccine would more likely trigger these issues---and so if someone had AS and was not "noticed", say a child, and suddenly they were having three times as many meltdowns because their clothes felt suddenly extremely painful and they couldn't bear the light of day- or maybe they stopped talking altogether or....y'know? Then the parent would realise something was wrong and take them for assessment when they otherwise might not have, and believe that the incident then was related to vaccines, believing then that AUTISM was related to vaccines...but vaccines do not cause autism. Not at all. They just cause inflammation and nerve damage, food sensitivities and more for many folk, and autis tend to be far more sensitive to these things, because we are sensitive people. Does this make any sense?

Also, I was vaccinated as a kid, but not until I was a bit older...and I was autistic before I had vaccines, and after I had vaccines too...my son is not having vaccines and we suspect he is on the spectrum too. *shrug*

#28 Sa Skimrande

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 09:16 AM

Vaccines are amongst much of which I am learning to distrust and that primarily because of pharmasuits and the business interests involved and do the medications actually do what they are meant to do or do they just cause further problems and that exemplified by the GP response in that they say; we'll try this medication and see if it works- hardly accurate, does it work or not and when it doesn't or causes other issues, it is another bit of experimentation or add something else to address the issues the previous med has caused and all of it, is based on theory not proof, but whilst one is giving the medication a fair run to see if it works big pharma is making money and their pals in the front line are creating more disorders to fit medications to and why I distrust the DSM criteria it is not for us, it is for industry.

But I have a general anaesthetic coming up and it scares me because the last time I had one of those I did not wake up when expected and in fact woke up the next day when it should have been the day before and not waking up when expected I learned caused a bit of a panic as it turned out, it wasn't found to be overdose. But I have an idea what it might have been and have been researching on the topic and discovered some others have had the same and some have been killed by it and it all bears down to that extra X, where the supposition is we are being dosed as males because we look like males but are genetically different. I have to get together some research and present it to my GP to make sure a warning is put on my records in regards to the forthcoming procedure to let them know, there could be a problem if they don't think about it and I will reiterate the issue when I go in for the procedure and refuse if they don't take serious note.

But vaccines, I have been vaccinated against some non European diseases, a lot pertaining to Africa the Far East and South America and memories of those vaccinations they made me very sick where others were up and about with apparently no problems. I never went to those places but I had to be ready to go at twenty four hours notice and that meant keeping on top of the vaccines a major problem for me at the time.

#29 Merry

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 02:08 PM

http://vactruth.com/...causing-autism/

This is another really interesting article from the VacTruth website about families who have been compensated for the encephalitis (Swelling of the brain) caused to their children proven to be caused by vaccines...Real life, it really happened. Court awarded these parents compensation for their children's autism, caused by encephalitis, caused by vaccines. Whether it is the same way we got our problems or not, whether it is true autism or just misdiagnosed, i don't know. What these kids have is brain damage....and i personally don't think of myself as brain damaged so I have no agenda here to say that autism is caused by vaccination...however it is true that certain types of brain damage, including shaken baby syndrome are caused by vaccinations. Yes! I'm an "Anti-Vax!!!" No, I don't follow the crowd....but having your own mind and doing your own research, and having your own opinions is allowed because we are apparently `free` people. And since when was it not ok or normal anymore to follow one's own instincts and intuition? If something smells like poop and looks like poop, a million people could tell me it's a duck but.... :)

Anyway, I am really glad this thread is not getting emotional or nasty. Going against the majority isn't a crime. It's simply a matter-of-fact difference of opinion. It so often seems that people take offense sometimes like you're not allowed to think differently....as though you're hurting them personally by not agreeing with them....as though you're insulting them by not sharing their beliefs. But our beliefs are not who we are....just because someone doesn't like one of my paintings, doesn't mean they dislike me as a person...The painting isn't me, it's merely a creation...just like an idea...or an opinion. So although i don't always agree with people about this subject (My sister for example), we agree on plenty of other things so what does it matter?

I won't go into my findings on the subject too much, because I was just interested to see what other people think. If there is a link to autism, then by ignoring it on this forum, we may be missing out on the most important aspect of autism that we could be discussing. Although i wasn't interested in the autism link particularly...it's all the other damage that i obsess over, due to being a person who is prone to having obsessions because of aspergers, and also being a parent.

Sa i'm going to look into that x chromosome lead....something i've not researched before. Thanks for that. I don't disagree with anything people have said at all....there's no reason why my opinion would be any more valid than anyone elses.

Edited by Merry, 20 January 2013 - 03:01 PM.


#30 trekster

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 08:09 PM

Im a little confused, how can shaken baby syndrome be caused by vaccines? Unless people think it is false shaken baby syndrome.

#31 Merry

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 08:21 PM

Em, I'll try to explain it. It's just that the trauma in some babies resulting from encephalitis can look extremely similar to the trauma caused by shaking a baby. There have been parents accused of abuse/murdering their child who have fought to prove that it happened directly after vaccination rather than as a result of abuse. It's a set of explainable circumstances in a lot of cases. I.e often if post mortem finds that the baby also has broken ribs, it builds the case against the parents but actually, it's often a result of paramedics trying to revive the baby.

#32 trekster

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 09:37 PM

Ah yes that makes sense thanks for explaining what you meant.




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