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Skaro7

Job Seeking & Prejudice

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Hi,

 

For the last few months I have been looking for part-time work to fit around an upcoming Uni course. I have taken the decision to tell any prospective employers that I have Asperger's Syndrome, because at my last job I didn't (because I hadn't been diagnosed then) and, long story short, I had to quit because of the stain the job put on me. I worked at a petrol filling station and, to be fair, the boss wasn't very good - but what also stressed me out was dealing with customers that I found difficult to read and understand as they often did silly, illogical things that often confused me.

 

Right, that's enough context - what I am wondering is does anyone have an experience where they feel that they have been turned down for a job because of an ASD? I'm quite sure that my last boss wouldn't have employed me had she known I was autistic, as I think she wasn't intelligent enough to realise that it doesn't mean that you're a loony.

 

I know that since the Equalities Act (2010) stipulated Asperger's Syndrome as an official disability that it is illegal for an employer to discriminate against someone with an ASD. However it can be covered up with excuses like "you're just not quite the candidate we're looking for" or what I seem to get: "the vacancy's been filled". It's hard enough that I struggle with Asperger's without bigoted middle managers scuppering my employment chances.

 

Any shared experiences gratefully accepted. :gather:

 

-Skaro7

 

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Just had a callback from a corner shop job I applied for. Manageress enquired about the disability I put on the application form. On telling her that I'm autistic she said "That could be a problem" and that I might not be able to do the job. She's thinking about it and will let me know if she wants me to come in for an interview.

 

Is this fair? My references are excellent and I haven't even had an interview yet, but it seems she may have already made her mind up based on my disability. :unsure:

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Sorry for the spelling, grammar etc... from this point on-wards, a little "miffed" and disorientated today (all the words look wrong).

 

It wasn't until recently that I have had the same reaction from prospective employers as yourself. In fact, I hadn't been turned down for any job since the age of 16.

 

I was lucky enough to have a position created for me - by a college who thought I was a perfect student - they made me a tutor, however, I was made redundant last September.

 

A year on - I have applied for many jobs (32ish + ). Succeeded in getting an interview for every one that I applied for (I didn't disclose a disability on my forms). They seemed to really like me until I disclosed that I might have Asperger's. So, 32+ jobs applied for = No - 0 jobs for me...over-qualified or they don't think that a person with autism can do the job - I'm not diagnosed yet.

 

However, because of the lack of success with job hunting, I decided to go on a PT degree course. For this course I had to do a work based placement - I haven't done it yet, but have met with the mentor at the work-place a few times and he's created a job for me - I haven't disclosed my possible "aspie-ness" yet. I'll let him see my work first I think and then tell him.

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Last year I handed my CV to a company at a trade fair. A month later they got back to me inviting me to attend an interview for a position as an Oceanographer. At this point I asked my contact at NAS Prospects Transitions to intervene and give the prospective employer a pep talk about Asperger's, reasonable adjustments and so forth. Then, the day before the Oceanographer interview was due to take place, and with my rail ticket already booked, the firm postponed the interview by a week. The reason they gave was that they had decided to interview me for a Database Systems Administrator position instead. I found hard to summon up much enthusiasm for the alternative job and was rejected after the interview.

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They seemed to really like me until I disclosed that I might have Asperger's. So, 32+ jobs applied for = No - 0 jobs for me...over-qualified or they don't think that a person with autism can do the job

 

That's exactly the response I've come across. It can be so upsetting, I'm sorry the bigots treated you like that. :(

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they had decided to interview me for a Database Systems Administrator position instead.

 

Such obvious stereotyping/prejudice. Too many people assume all those with ASDs are like Rain Man.

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That's exactly the response I've come across. It can be so upsetting, I'm sorry the bigots treated you like that. :(

 

I am too. It's so frustrating and patronising. But, hey ho, that's life at the moment I suppose. However, I do really wish that your luck will change :)

 

The only thing that I can do from now on is: wait for my diagnostic process to be over/get an official diagnosis - not disclose anything on my application forms - wait for a letter of confirmation that I have been accepted for a job and then tell the employer via a letter (recorded delivery) and a dated e-mail (keeping copies for myself). I think it is also very important to help the employer to understand, make reasonable adjustments and raise awareness - disclosure and education for the rest of the workforce. If I am then discriminated against in anyway (in reference to the autism act/equality act), I believe I will at least "have a leg to stand on".

 

However, I don't know whether this is illegal or not. Can anyone on here clarify this for me please (as I do not know what the correct procedures are)?

 

Thanks K

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Hi

 

I don't have ASD but do get where you are coming from. My children have a very foreign sounding surname,and so did I until recently(reverted back to maiden name) and I absolutley think it has an impact regarding getting through to interview stage and beyond. It is one of the main reasons why I have changed it back to my maiden name and I do feel for my boys(especially the two who have ASD on top of this...double discrimination!)

 

However I think we need to always be careful waving the discrimination card about. If a CV is read and a letter sent out saying they did not think you met the requirements(or similar) it would be very difficult to prove it was due to ASD. Nowdays the job market is a brutal place indeed, many people are either over qualified or under qualified and it can be as many as 100 people applying for just one job...not an easy task at all for the employer!

 

The example given above when the employer called back and only when ASD was mentioned the employer changed their tone, that is more clear discrimination but again still hard to prove. Some employers can have very valid reasons to not employ someone with a certain disability.Funny example is like that in the TV comedy Come Fly with me, there is a man in a wheelchair employed to push clients in a wheelchair therefore unable to push is own chair and having to employ someone else to push him. Clearly this is an extreme and unrealistic example but it shows there are some jobs just not suitable for those with disabilities. If they can give clear and just reasons in a court of law then you have no chance of winning a discrimination suit.

 

Personally I would not disclose any information about your diagnosis until you have a secure job. I know women who do this when preganant for the same reasons. Once you have a foot in the door and explain about your ASD the employer will be able to see(after about 3-6months)that you are more than capable of the job. If they do sack you then you will definatley have a stronger discrimination case. Like with anything document everything. So if prior to your disclosure you get good praise at work make note of it in a diary,or possibly get it in writing. When you do disclose make a note of this,date time and what was said. If you are sacked you must get a letter explaining the reasons why and anything you dont know must be explained.

 

I hope everyone who is looking for work will find what they are looking for. Its awful when those who do want to work cannot yet those who are never serious about work get the opportunities and waste them!

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Thanks guys,

 

I am wondering though - if you don't disclose before you get a job, only afterwards could you be in breach of contract? The latest application form I filled in said that they would terminate employment if anything was filled in untruthfully.

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On a more positive note, I had an interview in May, this time for an Energy Analyst role. Once again I asked NAS Prospects Transitions to intervene, and according to them the response from the interviewers was very positive. I didn't get the job, but the feedback was very encouraging, as in I performed well at interview, I was definitely among the three strongest candidates and if they'd only had more vacancies to fill I they would have taken me on straightaway.

 

Mind you, that only goes to show what a difference being interested in a job helps in an interview situation.

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Thanks guys,

 

I am wondering though - if you don't disclose before you get a job, only afterwards could you be in breach of contract? The latest application form I filled in said that they would terminate employment if anything was filled in untruthfully.

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However not disclosing something is not being dishonest. Where it asks if you have a disability you can say you do not wish to disclose that way you not lying. There are many medical conditions that can effect work performance but you are still not obligated to mention as example is HIV. Its nobodys buisness to know the status but someone may disclose this years into employment due to detoriorating health.

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I don't have an ASD, but I have other medical conditions such as RSI and Fibromyalgia. I am currently self employed because I felt that that was the best way that I could hold a job, so that I can be flexible in what I do and when I do it. But if I were going for an interview I don't think I would disclose it anyway. I would just try to find as suitable a job as I could ie. no repetitive movements, especially the desk top/typing kind, and probably part time too.

 

On the other side, as an employer, we did hire someone with a disability. They had had cancer twice in the last 5 years and were currently on medication/chemo. They had never had a job before as no employer would touch them [they were only in their teens]. We gave them a job, and six months down the line they've handed in their notice because they've found a better paid job.

 

Okay, they went for the money. And having worked for us probably helped another employer take the step and consider employing them too. But they were on a training course with us. They've left us just at the time when they were becoming more independent and my husband and I could get out and seek further work/orders for our business. And now we won't be able to have a holiday this year as there is no-one capable of running the shop whilst we are away, and we probably won't manage to train someone up to speed for Christmas. So we feel we've really been dumped on having given someone a chance.

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...

Personally I would not disclose any information about your diagnosis until you have a secure job

...

 

I am wondering though - if you don't disclose before you get a job, only afterwards could you be in breach of contract? The latest application form I filled in said that they would terminate employment if anything was filled in untruthfully.

This is a tricky one, I've posted on a couple of similar threads recently. While I was unemployed in periods between 2007-11, I was advised when writing 'open' cover letters with CVs, not to disclose in those, but when doing a more closed application form which asks the question, disclose on that as per Skaro7's post. For most of my early working years I had tried to muddle through without disclosing it to employers, however often got told in appraisals to "improve" at communication skills, which showed with hindsight that I ought to have been disclosing it.

 

I got to start with my current employer as an agency temp two years ago doing data entry, a few other temps were telephone call handlers, but for most temps to be made permanent was generally conditional on cross-training on the other side. Now if normal application and interview process had been used for permanent recruitment from the outset, if I hadn't disclosed a disability at application or interview stage, I would automatically be expected to do the call handling because the official spec of the job is that it involves both sides. As it had been more a "temp-to-perm" situation disclosing my disability from the start showed that call handling training would not be for me, yet they were still pleased to take me on given the capability I had shown with the database and finance work.

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I don't have an ASD, but I have other medical conditions such as RSI and Fibromyalgia. I am currently self employed because I felt that that was the best way that I could hold a job, so that I can be flexible in what I do and when I do it. But if I were going for an interview I don't think I would disclose it anyway. I would just try to find as suitable a job as I could ie. no repetitive movements, especially the desk top/typing kind, and probably part time too.

 

On the other side, as an employer, we did hire someone with a disability. They had had cancer twice in the last 5 years and were currently on medication/chemo. They had never had a job before as no employer would touch them [they were only in their teens]. We gave them a job, and six months down the line they've handed in their notice because they've found a better paid job.

 

Okay, they went for the money. And having worked for us probably helped another employer take the step and consider employing them too. But they were on a training course with us. They've left us just at the time when they were becoming more independent and my husband and I could get out and seek further work/orders for our business. And now we won't be able to have a holiday this year as there is no-one capable of running the shop whilst we are away, and we probably won't manage to train someone up to speed for Christmas. So we feel we've really been dumped on having given someone a chance.

This is such a difficult situation for you. I think sometimes people forget that "employers" are people too and have responsibilities to keep businesses going thus keeping the economy afloat (such as it is!!). Self employment is a good option for people with AS or who may have AS but thats pretty stressful too. Business is stressful - when your house is on the line employers, in particular those with small businesses, simply cannot afford to take risks. Statutary organisations , Colleges & Unis etc are under extreme pressure to cut back. Its a really hard time. However, we`ve been through recessions before and things have improved. (showing my advanced age here!). There will come a time when able, useful people like Aspies will be needed. Can I suggest using this immediate time to prepare as far as possible? To practice interview or phone skills or whatever each person needs to practice as well as honing your specialist subjects and it sounds as though there are some real specialists here. Think very carefully before telling potential employers of your AS (especially if you dont yet have the diagnosis). When trying to decide among many potential employees they may well just decide to go for the most straightforward option ie maybe not you. Sad but true.

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There are good employers and bad employers out there - and many are particularly bad during the recruitment process. Just because a prospective employer treats you badly or changes his mind during the application process does not necessarily mean they are discriminating against you - they can be equally bad with all candidates.

 

As to whether, and when, you should disclose it - that really depends on whether you are expecting the employer to make "reasonable adjustments". If you are happy to compete for the job and do the job with no special allowances made then you don't need to disclose at all. If you think your performance at interview will be impacted then you need to make sure they know during the interview process. In that case I would probably recommend letting the company know once they have asked you for interview.

 

An experienced interviewer will almost certainly pick up something unusual in the communication skills of most people who are ASD. Without being given a reason, that might be enough to put a question mark over you as a prospective candidate and in these days where there are a lot of applicants, a question mark is likely to mean "no" unless you have exceptional skills.

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