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bjkmummy

dyslexia

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i know not strictly asd but as I have two asd boys I think it might be all related.

 

both my boys are statemented and in special schools.

 

just as I was getting over a long year long battle with my LA my daughter has reminded me that she is still here! she is twin to one of the boys. after the boy won the tribunal to an indie school, the school he was at and where my daughter was fell apart for my daughter. it became clear she was dyslexic. school were not interested in her and she wanted a fresh start so moved her to avery small primary wth 20 kids in it - 10 in a class.

 

it became clear that school had lots of concerns about her. they decided to put in lots of support and ifno progress come sept they would call the EP in. had a meeting with them and they now say she is 4 years behind - she is however not far enough behind to call in the EP as she would need to be 6 years behind. the school are being truthful here as I have read the LA policy on statementing etc and this is true. school did suggest that I could get a private assessment which will happen at the end of the month. I am expecting the report to finally confirm dyslexia - where I go from there I don't know - she is in year 5 but is the eldest so missed year 6 by days. although the LA the school is in has this policy she is actually in school out of county and the home county have no such policy. I feel she should be statemented but after seeing how hard it was to get provision for the boys I dread to think how bad it would be for her. also - dyslexia specific school - do they exsist for dyslexia only or do they have a mix of disabilities at the school - likely such a school would mean she would need to board so I expect I will have a full scale battle with the LA. she has no IEP, school are huffing and puffing about putting her on school action for some reason. however as each year goes by she is falling further nad further behind - school have put it in writing that their intervention has not worked and in fact things he had learnt she has now forgotten again - just wish life could be straightforward - even for just 6 months!

 

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Remember from your last experiences, that whatever the criteria the LA has is irrelevant. SEND Tribunals go on SEN law and nowhere does it say a child has to fall years behind before they get the help and support they need.

 

My son is at an ASD specific school and we won additional funding of £10K a year for a specialist dyslexia teacher [for literacy and numeracy - qualified to both teach and assess] to see him for 3 hours a week. That has made a huge difference.

 

There are dyslexia specific schools - look on the CRESTED website.

 

In some ways her being in year 5 is going to help you because you know how long it will take to get a Statement and to then appeal the statement [as you will be looking at secondary placement by then]. Or if it is earlier you maybe able to ask for an immediate transfer whilst still in primary - if your parental choice of school takes primary aged children.

 

How is she doing with other aspects such as social skills, sensory issues etc. Girls can sometimes be ASD, and not get picked up because their social skills are usually better than boys of the equivalent age.

 

LA EP's can assess for dyslexia, but a private diagnosis might get things sooner. My LA said they had a policy of not assessing for dyslexia. Then they said he had to be over age 7 before he could be assessed. By the age of 10 he could not read or write.

and was on P scales. Two years later, in the right school with the right interventions he is on a 4C for science. 2a for literacy and 3c for maths. But from P scales to 4C is incredible and shows that he was and is capable. Literacy is always going to be difficult for him. When he gets the language side of maths the school have said he may amaze us all.

 

Just don't listen to the LA. Ask the LA to assess for a Statement. Might be an idea to wait for the outcome of the dyslexia assessment. Then put in the request and follow through like you have done for your other two.

 

It is such hard work getting results, and you are to be congratulated on sorting out the boys. One last push and you might be able to put your feet up for a few years.

 

If everything else is okay in a mainstream school, she could have a dyslexia teacher go in. Infact if you look through the Code of Practice it actually gives that as an example of the kind of support a child might receive.

 

Some Dyslexia schools also have some Aspergers students, but mainly dyslexia. And some are boarding too. Again alot will depend on her cognitive ability and how far behind she has been left to fall as to whether an independent boarding school is the right place for her to get the teaching she needs to enable her to catch up and reach her potential.

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thanks sally - that is the plan now to wait and see what the test in 3 weeks reveals. one of the dyslexia peeps ive spoken to thinks as well she may have auiditory processing difficulties as well. im trying not to think about asd but may have my head in the sand on that one. she has always had quite poor eye contact and although quite a sociable outgoing girl she has always been on the sidelines rather than in the middle. I have found a dyslexia teacher who lives in the village she goes to school in and would be willing to go into school but its the cost of it - £150 per month is a lot of money to find. I viewed the nearest secondary school tonight and they made it clear - no statement no help whatsoever. she will be left to sink or swim and only if she sinks would they step in and help. wanted to run straight out of the school and scream.

 

she has never had an IEP even now we don't have one but she has just been left to drift. current teacher did do the report saying how she is struggling so that's good plus the report from the dyslexia assessment as well will at least get me started on the statementing route - at least I now know where to go for experts!!!! I really feel that an independent dyslexia school would be best but they will involve boarding. there is one in the next city that is on the CRESTED website which is £10k a year in fees

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You have the code of practice. The school need to have her on school action and school action plus. Without that you don't have IEPs and you need to submit two of them to ask for an assessment for a Statement. Without that it gives the LA the opportunity to say that the school could do more - which they must because a Statement is about what is needed over and above what they can provide. Obviously a dyslexia teacher is something they could not provide out of their delegated funding. And at some point you must write to the LA specialist teaching services [if they have one], and ask how many dyslexia specific teachers they have and are they qualified to both teach and assess children with dyslexia [i can almost guarantee they don't have anyone].

 

So try to pick apart how dyslexia affects your child and get those as 'needs' that the school need to acknowledge. Such as poor working and short term memory, poor phonological awareness, poor auditory processing [a SALT can assess for auditory processing and auditory memory].

 

Although the LA may have a criteria about having to fall 6 years behind regarding dyslexia, that won't apply to the individual needs if you pick them apart. Also worth mentioning to the LA about the Jim Rose Report commissioned by the government [it is a long document but worth reading as nowhere does it say to wait and see how far behind they can fall before you do anything. It also states that they too have heard of LA's not recognising private diagnoses, and saying that the LA should have 'sound reasons' for not accepting a diagnoses just because their own staff have not diagnosed it. And the SEN Code of Practice details a specialist teacher as the kind of support a child with dyslexia might have.

 

At the moment she is mainstream. If she has any chance of remaining mainstream in secondary she needs to be up to at least a level 3a in all areas of development [and that level is considered a learning difficulty/disability level]. She is not making progress in primary where there is automatically additional support. She will fail at secondary, and may not even be offered a place if she is that far behind. The only thing that might do is give you an even better chance at an independent school as long as her cognitive ability is assessed as at least around average and her poor performance is due to the lack of support provided.

 

But you really need a baseline of assessments, and to see what progress is made over the next year with the support provided. That gives you evidence that she needs MORE. Without any input it is hard to know what she could achieve. So get her onto School Action Plus ASAP.

 

You could speak with the LA EP and then send in a letter. LA EPs can and do assess for dyslexia [although most EPs don't unless pinned into a corner by letters from parents etc]. Although you don't want them to assess, they should give advice to school about the outcome of that assessment. It probably won't be much, but again it proves what the LA typically provides. The same applies about phoning the LA and asking for their specialist teaching services and speaking with them and asking how their services can be drawn upon. Probably they need the school to ask them for advice. [in our case the school did eventually contact this service, after me forcing them to do so. But when I did a freedom of information act search prior to the tribunal I found that apparently this service never keeps any records. So no idea what school phoned them about, what their concerns were, what advice they were given etc - how very convenient for them - but just wanted to forewarn you that you need to provide the paper trail, because now LAs are making it harder and harder by not keeping anything on record].

 

Needing two IEPs to ask for an assessment is not written in stone, but the LA will use that as an opportunity to refuse to assess. But the fact that you have asked for an assessment and the LA says the school needs to do more, means it gives you the opportunity to push the school into a corner to do more and in the meantime you can appeal that decision. Within 6 months you will have the appeal, they will assess and may or maynot issue the statement. If they issue a note in lieu you need to appeal again, or if they issue the statement it will be pants and you will need to appeal anyway. But, as you can see, that means, potentially, that a year at least will have gone by before you even get a Statement.

 

So start the ball rolling, and try not to worry too much because if she is so far behind by that time you will have all the evidence of that starting from now in writing. And her poor performance gives you a greater opportunity of getting a dyslexia specific school.

 

You would think that the LA would have cottoned on that you know the process and would get their finger out. But again their whole process is about delaying having to pay for anything for as long as possible.

 

Keep us updated.

Edited by Sally44

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she had her assessment with dyslexia action last week which we had to pay for as the school refused to refer her to an EP as the EP would refuse to see her as she was not 6 years behind academically - not sure how true that is but the LA policy on line says something similar - school suggested we get a private one done. of course the assessment ahs concluded that she is dyslexic - she is by all accounts a classic dyslexic so also has issues with her short term memory and she cannot process the phonic sounds correctly. the EP did do an IQ test but she didn't tell me the results of that but we will get a full written report in a couple of weeks. she did say that she will require specialist teaching.

 

we have found a specialist teacher who is going into school for an hour a week which the school have allowed - her class teacher is also dyslexic. find it quite unnerving that every time I speak to the class teacher we have the class TA lingering in the background almost as if she is being a witness to what is being said? she is in a class of 10 and she is according to my daughter working with the year 3 kids rather than the year 5 kids ( the class covers year 3 - yr 6 - teeny tiny school) there is still no sign that the school will put her on school action/plus and no IEP either. to be honest im losing faith in the school, the class teacher keeps telling me the school will do all it can for her and I struggle to see that - however at the assessment the EP did comment on the report from the school that the school have put an awful lot of support in for her already - think its something like 6 hours support for her literacy - the report from school concluded that this is making much difference to her - hardly surprising if she is dyslexic as she needs different methods of teaching. not sure now if getting her an hours specialist teaching was a good idea as if she now improves it will be down to that rather than the school.

 

its parents evening on Thursday so im sending my secret weapon in - my husband!!!

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I think i've said this before, so apologies if I have. Although the LA may say that "THEIR POLICY" is not to assess a child for Dyslexia until they are 6 years behind their peers, THAT IS NOT GOVERNMENT SEN LAW. At an educational tribunal all you need to prove is that she has Dyslexia, and have a report that recommends xx hours of 1:1 specialist dyslexia teaching per week to be delivered by a teacher who is both qualified to teach and assess dyslexic children [that bit is essential so that the LA have to fund a specific dyslexia teacher who is qualified to a certain level so that she can both teach and assess to measure progress. Otherwise you might get a trained TA, which is NOT the same thing.]

 

An educational tribunal will not be happy and may well be shocked at this LA policy. It is illegal as far as SEN law is concerned. Why do the LA do it? Because they can get away with it and they won't get fined for doing it. They will continue doing it until an Educational Tribunal issues their Decision Letter and Orders the LA to do x, y and z. Then the LA is legally bound to follow that Order and you can take them to Judicial Review if they don't.

 

I would also suggest holding off on the Dyslexia teaching, unless you use an improvement as 'evidence' that 1:1 teaching is helping your child make progress.

 

I would tell your husband to speak with the Head or SENCO of this school and tell them that you are going to ask your LA to assess for a Statement of SEN, and that you need the school to have put your child onto school action plus, and to have carried out two IEPs before you do that. If they are helping your child, they need to put that on paper and to have her on SA+. What they are trying to do is to help her, but not to follow the process. If they don't follow the SEN process it makes things harder for you and your child.

 

I would also ask the private EP what their findings were regarding her cognitive ability. This EP may have experience of assessing children for Dyslexia, but little or no experience of assessing children with an ASD. If an ASD child is assessed using assessments that involve language processing then she will score low on it, due to the ASD and also due to the Dyslexia. She needs to be assessed using non-verbal assessments too.

 

I would also suggest you speak with the Local Governments Ombudsman about the school giving additional help and support to your child, but not using the SEN process of putting her onto SA+ and having IEPs. This is effectively stopping you requesting a Statutory Assessment for a Statement. It is an administrative failure on the part of the school. See what the LGO advise. If you can lodge a complaint then I would do so. But first you will need to raise a complaint with the school, maybe also the school governors and then also a complaint to the LA complaints department and ask that they register it as a formal complaint and follow their procedure so that you can take this further with the LGO.

 

Sorry this is all so long winded, but that is often how it goes, with parents having to drag the school and LA screaming to get them to do what they should be doing automatically. Stay calm and unemotional, and just start applying the pressure by using letters/meetings/complaints procedure.

Edited by Sally44

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I was in the school playground this evening and I know a boy in her class was undergoing statementing and he has dyslexia - also he has attachment disorder and he is adopted. I saw his mum and mentioned that my daughter has now been dx with dyslexia. she said her son has now received a statement for 13 hours TA time and 2 hours specialist teaching. she asked me what the school were doing for my daughter and ie xplained that they were yet to put her in the sen register, do an iEP etc to which she raised an eyebrow as she is the SEN governor! I explained that we intend to formally request it is done this week. with that she went and k teacher came out. I had a brief chat with her about her assessment last week and she was not interested which is also a worry as she is the senco! she was more interested in complaining that the specialist teacher had spent 90 mins with my daughter rather than 60 so my daughter was tired. they did do an IQ test last week so will be interesting to see the results when the report comes

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Okay an update - she was assessed by dyslexia action and she was on the 2nd centile for reading spelling and writing - she's on the 5th centile to think for working memory/short term memory so the report was pretty dire. However as it was done by dyslexia action it's recommendations were a bit wooly. Recommends specialist teaching but not how much etc.

 

The dyslexia teacher I am paying for has done about 7 sessions with her, she is struggling to retain what she is learning - she also has huge phonological problems so is struggling to hear sounds etc.

 

At parents evening dh demanded an IEP - the one that came is poor very poor. After speaking to both local secondary schools its clear she needs a statement. The first secondary made it clear with a statement they would refuse her if it had specialist teaching on it as they can t provide it. 2nd school did have dyslexia teachers but seems a bit scratchy about what she would actually get plus the school will be hard to get in without a statement as we are out of catchment.

 

I applied for the statement against the schools advice as they are still bleating about the 6 years behind rubbish - the dyslexia action report puts her behind between 3 - 4 years. She is out of county so my LA has no such policy. My LA also have no specialist teachers that they employ.

 

Received a letter from the LA today saying they've received my request and they are now going to get a report from school and if they decide to assess they will call in the EP.

 

My concern now reading above is that yes it's clear she needs specialist teaching but I don't have it in writing how much she needs. I'm guessing I'm going to need an independent EP report to do this? Her dyslexia teacher will write a report for her and she agrees also she needs to statemented. I'm trying to get her seen by an OT re dyspraxia but at the moment the GP is refusing to even refer her saying school should do it, school don't know how to so were contacting school nurse and since then its all gone quiet.

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Firstly an IEP is part of the SEN process at School Action Plus. It is an Individual Education Plan and should set out about 3 targets, how they will be achieved and how that achievement will be monitored and a timescale [usually by the next IEP date]. The Targets should be SMART - Specific, Measurable, Achieveable, Relevant and Timed.

 

So, as an example, your daughter might have a target "to be able to read/write words using the letters SATPIN. This will be achieved by daily work of 15 minutes working on these words [a list of words should be specified] by reading, writing, playing games etc. It will be achieved if she learns all those words and retains that learning and can apply it. This target will be met by the next IEP meeting on xx/xx/xx."

 

If the target is not met the school and/or relevant professional must make amendments so that it becomes achieveable. That might be for additional repetition. It might be by seeking advice from the EP. etc. But if that target is again not met at the next IEP then you need increased support and something additional and different from what has been tried before. You should not have an on-going IEP target for more than two IEPs.

 

Once you have two IEPs [usually takes 6 months], you can apply for a Statement of SEN.

 

You already have evidence, from the Dyslexia Action assessment of how severe her dyslexia is. You can seek a Statement on that. As you've said, they have not been specific in how many hours specialist teaching she needs. And you need a specialist teacher experienced to teach and assess children with dyslexia who also has experience or qualifications in teaching children with autism.

 

But at this stage you can ask the LA for an assessment for a Statement of SEN. You may want to wait to have two IEPs or not. I would probably request an assessment if it were myself.

 

The LA will not quantify and specify the provision needed for this SEN. You will end up at a tribunal, and once you have lodged your appeal with SEND about the finalised Statement, that is when you get any independent reports you might need.

 

Your daughter is suitable for a CRESTED school [for children with dyslexia], depending on the severity of the autism and how that impacts on her learning. Often there are a number of children with both an ASD and Dyslexia. Or you may find a suitable ASD school and then have to get quotes for them to buy in the specialist teaching. That is what we did. So he goes to an independent ASD day school [and now has some residential time there too], and the school get additional funding from the LA to buy in the specialist dyslexia teaching. At the tribunal I had named that school as my parental choice. I had also got two quotes from dyslexia teachers for what they would cost for them to deliver the programme recommended by the independent EP report [ie. 6 hours a week].

 

So you need to think about what all her needs are, and what school can meet all those needs from within their standard provision, and if there is any shortfall remember to get quotes for that additional provision for any tribunal you may end up at.

 

Look at the SEN Code of Practice para 8:13. One of the examples of the kind of provision that could be provided for a SEN is "regular and frequent direct teaching by a specialist teacher."

 

So don't be fobbed off by the LA saying they think her needs can be met within her current school, or that they don't have specialist teachers etc. Regular and frequent is not specific, but it certainly gives you an idea of what could be provided. What you need is a professional to say what they recommend. For our son it was 6 hours a week for literacy and numeracy ie. 3 hours each a week of direct 1:1 specialist teaching which is then practised every day and generalised into all of his lessons.

 

Infact it would be useful, once you have got the final statement, to write to the Head of special needs education at your LA and ask them how many teachers they have within their department that are qualified to both teach and assess children with Dyslexia. They won't have any. They may have 'experienced' teachers, but that is not the same. Her need is severe. She requires an "appropriate professional" to set out a literacy programme and to work with her on a weekly basis in school [or at a CRESTED school where all the teachers will have these qualifications]. And any specialist teacher must be able to assess - so that they can monitor what progress is being made, and so they can identify what the areas of difficulty are.

Edited by Sally44

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Sorry, just read through your post again, and you've already done some of what I suggested.

 

Yes, at some point, you will need to get specific recommendations about how much specialist teaching she needs. But you only need to do that if you end up at an educational tribunal. And you need to follow that process in the hope that the LA will do what is needed without a tribunal - but they usually don't. So you might as well start the process.

 

You need to be thinking long term and what school she needs to be in to get access to the right education and therapy for a child with an ASD, Dyslexia, Dyspraxia. Is that going to be mainstream? What do you think about the schools your other children are at [i seem to remember that one or two of them are at independent schools?].

 

Regarding OT make sure you get it all in writing. Send a letter to the GP saying that you asked for your daughter to be referred to an Occupational Therapist due to her having Dyspraxia and the affect that can have on learning as well as motor planning. Say that the school have told you they don't have any access to an OT. Ask the GP to refer you to an OT department that works with children with Dyspraxia and ask that they send you a copy of the referal letter. [so that you know the referal has been made, or if no letter arrives that no referal has been made - as evidence for any tribunal.

 

Ask the school for the school nurse contact details and write to her/him yourself, again asking for a referal to an OT that works in school with children with Dyspraxia. Ask for a copy of her referal letter.

 

Then you can phone the community OT team [phone your local hospital to find out who they are that cover your area]. Talk to them about your child and their SEN and Dyspraxia and ask them what their service provides in terms of assessment, reports, therapy in school. They won't provide anything. But after the telephone conversation send them a letter detailing what you discussed ie. that they do not offer any on-going in school therapy service for children with dyspraxia [as you know, this is all part of your evidence for tribunal that your parental choice of school, that will have an OT employed on site, is the only one that can meet all her SEN].

 

And this link http://www.cot.co.uk/sites/default/files/publications/public/doubly-disadvantaged.pdf

is from the college of Occupational Therapists and details how serious Dyspraxia is and the prognosis of those children who have it and who do not receive OT therapy for it.

 

And the fact that the NHS does not provide any therapy, and the school does not have an OT employed on site, means that the LA must fund the recommended therapy detailed in the OT report [which will most likely have to be an independent OT report]. The same applies for Sensory Integration Therapy. The NHS does not provide that type of therapy.

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It might also be useful to get in writing the LA's policy of not involving the EP until a child is 6 years behind. Which infact means that she must still be on reception levels at the time she is transferring to secondary school!

 

As you've already been told that by the school, you could just send a letter to the relevant person at the LA [i think you've had enough contact with them to know who that would be!], and say

 

"You are not meeting our daughters SEN of a specific learning difficulty, and your policy of not seeking professional advice from an EP until she is 6 years behind is going to affect her long term educational achievements and her ability to access mainstream education. To not provide any specialist teaching until she is six years behind means she will still be on reception levels by the time she is transferring to secondary school. That is unacceptable and illegal. Your internal LA policy goes against everything recommended in the Jim Rose report to the government about Dyslexia. Can you please respond to this letter within 7 days."

 

And see what they respond with. After that don't contact them again. You've given the information they need to do something. Leave them to do nothing and that will be your evidence at Tribunal, and you will have this letter as your evidence that you did inform them of her dyslexia and they did nothing.

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in relation to her IEP it is shockingly bad - it runs from dec - march so is for a period of 4 months so seems like a long time - a friend told me that the LA expect IEPs to be done 3 times a year so I guess that makes sense. I showed her IEP to a dysleixia specialist who then complained to the head of SEN in the LA which my daughters school is in about how poor it was. she did it on the basis my daughter wouldn't be identified but lo and behold within 24 hours the head of SEN knew it was my daughter and he has phoned her school up and is going into school to discuss it with them! as you can imagine the school are not happy with me. at this stage I really couldn't care as they are trying to say the right things but then are doing nothing and remember this head of sen guy will be the one who stands by the 6 years behind policy.

 

shes in a tiny school and since she was dx the head teacher has not spoken a word to me and outright ignores me, none of the other parents speak to me, there are 3 girls in her class and they now all blank her as well cue a very sad and lonely girl coming home each night. my relationship with the school so dire that I don't think they would listen to me even if I spoke to them about it. her dyslexia teacher says she will need a statement and will write a report when needed. each term she is writing a report so that is really good evidence as well. the problem with my daughter is that she is just so nice and compliant - every report I have ever had about her states this so she has flown straight under the radar. I will now mid January whether they will assess so not too long to wait - already have my OT ready to see her, now just trying to source an excellent dyslexia EP in case I will need them.

 

her current school since the day I told them I had applied for the statement now keeping saying she is fine and is making good progress! that concerns me as they now need to write a report. what I have learnt through the boys that the levels that teachers give are never correct. her twin who at SATS in KS1 was a level 3 now in year 5 is struggling on level 2s, her elder brother also in a special school was put al level 2 in year 6, now in year 8 hes on P scales! looking at her levels she hasn't moved in 2 years and at year 5 is still on level 2s

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My sons KS Levels fluctuated. If I raised concerns with the school they too used to say "no concerns" and his levels would go up a bit. But for the whole of primary, up to end year 4 [as he refused year 5], he was assessed as level P8 - 1B, and it went up and down P8 - 1B - 1C - 1B - P8 etc. I just kept a note of them to prove that no progress was being made.

 

I also had the LA EP assessment in year 1 that he knew 20 High Frequency Words. At the end of year 4 his IEP target was to identify 10 High Frequency Words, and he achieved 6. So I had proof that his ability to identify HFW had gone backwards. That is why it is really important to get assessment or KS levels over the years and be able to compare them.

 

The school will say no concerns, because if they do have concerns they have to raise those with the EP and use some of their budget. At KS level 2 [a, b, or c?], she is behind. To access mainstream education a child must be above level 3a. Even a child with moderate learning disabilities [ie. lower IQ], would be expected to achieve a level 3.

 

Don't keep pushing the school. Just make sure that you have given all the information, and have requested assessments/support etc from the school and LA. But remember that if they do do something and there is an improvement, however small, that it could affect your argument for your parental choice of school at any Educational Tribunal. Leave them to seal their own coffin.

 

And as you say KS levels can be open to interpretation. That is why I always bang on about Standardised Assessments. They are much more accurate. And that is why LA and NHS professionals often don't do them.

 

My own son was nice and compliant until his anxiety levels were so high that he became ill and refused school for a year. And as awful as it is, you know the LA will not do anything proactive. It is all about trying to close the door once the horse has bolted. And if she does end up with anxiety, or an Anxiety Disorder, and out of school, then that too adds to your argument for your parental choice of school.

 

Do you have any school in Mind, because if you are heading towards a tribunal that is probably going to happen at the time of secondary transfer. It will take 6 months for a Statement [if they agree to assess] and another 4 months for a tribunal. And if they refuse to assess it could be a couple of months for them to issue Note in Lieu or refusal to assess, another 4 months to appeal that, then 6 months for the LA to actually make a Statement, and then a further 4 months to appeal the final statement. So you really need to set the ball rolling now.

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no - not thought seriously yet about school but I have checked out thoroughly the local provision already and know that its not going to work. 1st school said with a statement wont take her and without a statement will throw her to the wolves and may still not accept her if she doesn't reach level 3. 2nd school further away so risk her not even getting a place - usual mainstream secondary size, do have dyslexia teachers albeit part time and she would get an hour a week. they would let her drop French and use that time to do other stuff to help her catch up etc. after 1st school sounded fab but not sure if its enough really given how dire her dyslexia reports was.

 

in next city is a crested independent day school which is a normal school with a dyslexia unit. what concerns me there is that she would have to sit an entrance exam for secondary and she is not academically the best so not sure how that would work - my next plan is to now visit this school on the next open day, then it would have to be specialist dyslexia boarding school as no local day specialist school - there is maple hayes but its a day school and so too far to travel every day. we are starting to see signs of anxiety - she has phonological difficulties and I feel she also struggle to process language and it takes her longer so now she just sits on the sidelines and watches rather than being in the middle of everything

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Just try to visit as many schools as you can until you find one with a similar peer group.

 

For my son, although he has severe dyslexia, his anxiety and autism are his main difficulties. He would not cope in a dyslexia specific school due to the difficulties he has that are due to autism, sensory issues, anxiety and now OCD.

 

There probably won't be any school that is 100% right. But you've got to prioritize the needs in terms of how they affect her accessing education and social interaction etc. So, we decided he needed a school that could support the anxiety and give him therapy for his speech and language disorder and the sensory integration disorder and dyspraxia. Then additional funding for the specialist dyslexia teacher - and see how it went from there.

 

We are now at a stage where we think he now needs 1:1 full time due to his OCD. He simply cannot manage on his own all day with those worrying thoughts, obsessions and compulsions. He does have 1:1 for the night he stays over.

 

We did visit Maple Hayes and Dr Brown did a short assessment on him and told me my son's needs were too severe for his school. At the same time his mainstream primary were telling me "no concerns". So I was shocked at what Dr Brown told me, ie. that mainstream was no longer an option. He did suggest frewen college, which maybe somewhere you can look at as they have pupils with Dyslexia, Aspergers and Dyspraxia. But it would be boarding.

 

Your daughter is doing better academically than my son was at that age. He is now in his third year at his new school [year 6, 7 and now 8]. And he is now on 4C for science and in the 2's for literacy and maths.

Edited by Sally44

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well got the refusual to assess letter today - the LA say that her needs can be made at school action plus - that shes made progress - her NC levels have barely moved and now in year 5 she is levels 2a.

 

dont know what to say really - ive already posted the appeal to sendist this afternoon - phonecalls made re getting OT and EP reports - im in shock really and upset especially with the school. the letter even says she has SEN - it states she doesnt meet the criteria for stat assessment. so 2nd tribunal in 2 years awaits me

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Hopefully they will back down before an appeal.

 

Do you have an assessment of her cognitive ability to compare against her academic results? Ie. average and therefore her results should be much higher, and she should be making average progress. 2a in year 5 is below her peers. Do you know what level children her age should typically be achieving?

 

Do you have in writing that the school has said she is 4 years behind? If not get it. Send them a letter detailing all that you have been told ie. 4 years behind her peers etc. No SEND Panel will be happy with that. See also the Jim Rose report because that too says that help should be provided as soon as a child needs it.

 

Also ask the school what their level of delegated funding is per pupil, and ask what support your daughter currently receives in terms of hours of support and staffing arrangements.

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im guessing that the average kid should be well up into the 3s as at year 6 they should be levels 4s

 

I don't have in writing the conversation with the class teacher and since I mentioned iwas applying fo a statement all I now hear is what good progress she is making which Im not sure how as the school have put her spelling age at 7 years so a good 3 years behind. I do have her levels in her dyslexia action report which put her reading age at 6 years plus on lots of areas she is only on the 2nd centile.

 

I spoke to the indep EP who I used for my son yesterday and I read her the levels given in the dyslexia reprt and she was shocked the LA had refused to assess her - she cant assess her until the end of april due to the 6 months thing between reports. I have an OT coming to asses her for dyspraxia - my appeal is lodged and I will see what happens - they may concede yet and yes I will find out about the delegated funding- on my list of things to - the support is listed in the refusual, the LA accept she has SEN but her needs can be met at school action plus.

 

the LA are trying to say she has made progress - in the last term she was a 2a/b - this term she is a 2a so they feel that is good progress even though for the proceeding 2 years she has been stuck at a 2b so her peers have widened the gap away from her.

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That is exactly what you will be saying. The gap has widened.

Her needs are not being met on SA+ as proved by her lack of progress compared to her cognitive ability [which I presume is around average?].

 

The areas of difficulty that DA identified should be being supported in school NOW. Or if that is more than the delegated funding covers, she needs a Statement. So you have right to appeal.

 

And as you know the SEN Code of Practice does include a "specialist teacher" as being one of the options to meet an SEN. What you need to ask for is someone who is qualified to level 7 [to teach and assess for dyslexia/SpLD]. As anyone working with her would need to be qualified to assess to monitor what progress, if any, the interventions were making. Only someone qualified to level 7 can also assess.

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I have concerns that she has dyspraxia - we have had a nHS referral go in but nothing yet so have booked our favourite provate OT that we have both used before sally to go and see her in school and then do a full assessment of her. what I am now also finding quite concerning is that at age 10 the asd flag is slowly starting to be raised about her. ive never seen it before and would always argue that she has had no issues but after talking to someone the other day and they started to ask me lots of questions, it was like a lightbulb had been switched on, she is twin to the boy we went to tribunal last year. I think if I publicly raised any concerns about her re asd that I would be laughed at so its something I think that will have to be a slow burn for now and as we start to get assessments see if they do then flag anything up.

 

one question I do have - we are going to get an OT report re the dyspraxia but someone mentioned that this may not be the best idea as at tribunal it could go against us as in effect we are doing the assessment by getting the report done - its not an argument that I agree with but just wondered if you had heard such an argument before?

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my LA statementing criteria is not published online anywhere but I have managed to get it by other means. it states that she should have 2 IEPS and at age 10 she should have a reading age of 6year and 4 months. the dyslexia action report put her at 6 yrs and 8 months. the older she gets the wider the gap the LA expect her to be so at age 7 she would only have to had been at an age 5 for reading so only 2 years behind whilst now at age 10 she needs to be nearly 4 years behind!

 

the criteria was written in 2007 and so there is absolutely no mention of the rose report and to be honest I do not think my LA have ever even heard of it! im sure this LA has no dyslexia qualified teachers - I think the LA she is in school in does so I may need to do letters to both LA. how much weight does the rose report hold at tribunal?

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Local Authorities can have whatever criteria they decide to have. That does not mean it is legal. That does not mean that you have to wait for your child to fulfill the LA criteria.

 

Nowhere, in SEN law, does it say a child with a SEN has to wait years to fall further and further behind. If the LA refuse to issue a Statement, you simply appeal. A SEND Panel will go on SEN law, and not on the individual LA criteria for anything.

 

The LA won't have anything about the Jim Rose report. Why should they? They are not obliged to. And they don't get reprimanded or fined if they make up any crazy LA criteria which applies to them only. And the only thing you can do about is to ask for a Statement and follow the Statementing process. Because only the SEN Statementing process brings in SEN law and SEND, who will not care diddly squat about the LA criteria. They are only interested in parts 2, 3 and 4 of the Statement.

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They want her to wait til ten to start the Statementing process? Way to go LA for lessening her chances of getting help before secondary! My son's diagnosis of dyslexia came at eight and that was considered late by today's standards (for someone with his level of dyslexia, which is severe). We couldn't get him a statement under that LEA, they said they didn't do them full stop for budgeting reasons and even if they did he would not have got one on his dyslexia alone (and the latter of that was the same up here - they said dyslexia doesn't require the level of help a Statement is set out for, his needs would be met at School Action Plus, bla bla, yadda yadda). That was likely rubbish too like what they're saying to you. I know it's easy to say push push push when we didn't win and get one, but don't give up. An IEP won't mean squat once she hits secondary. We were told he wouldn't need a Statement as his IEP would go up with him - which did happen but they didn't implement it at all, not once, not even a little bit. My son's entire education was ruined by not receiving the help laid out in his SA+ IEP, after all, the way they see it, it's not as binding as a Statement, it's just suggestions.

Edited by KathyM

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well the tribunal date is here - beginning of may so very quick - 3 month turnaround which is quick as there will be a judge and one panel member rather than two. had the sen officer on the phone already wanting to get her views for the tribunal - it is a year ago tomorrow when I was last at tribunal so deffo have a feeling of deja vue tonight.

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Just prepare your case and evidence for Tribunal. Don't give info to the LA because you may give them info they can use against you.

 

Remember that a Statement must contain need in part 2 with SUITABLE provision in part 3. No LA can provide 1:1 specialist teaching in school from a person qualified to both TEACH and ASSESS for dyslexia. That is up to level 7. See the PATOSS website for info and details of suitable teachers. Get a couple of quotes from them to deliver 1:1 once a week for a couple of hours and for their specific literacy and/or numeracy package to be practiced in school every day for 20 mins, with that TA sitting in on the weekly 1:1 session to observe how the specialist teacher is delivering the teaching. For them to give targets to IEPs and come to IEPS and for them to provide an up to date report for the Annual Review and to attend the Annual Review. Get realistic quotes for that package and that is what you want in the Statement in part 3, with the LA funding that.

 

What placement do you think she needs?

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I m appealing a refusal to assess at this stage so got a long battle ahead of me as even if I win the refusal to assess then I may still not get the statement so this could gone on for years! Not sure re placement yet, that will evolve as the journey continues and we get more reports. I can show that since year 2 where her sats were average she has fallen further behind and is not making the adequate progress even though the school put an intensive package in for her which failed to help her. She was upset yesterday as class teacher keeps making her read out loud to her classmates which she hats. Now got her to write a book with her feelings in so I can see how she's coping and what's going on, for the last week she has cried every day at school - is that normal? I'm thinking long term a dyslexia school would be best but there are none in this area at all so would mean residential and that's another battle.

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No it isn't right for a child to be in tears every day about school.

 

Have you looked on the dyslexia school CRESTED website?

 

Hopefully the LA will agree to give her a Statement before the tribunal.

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yes I have looked at crested - there is an independent school in the next city which has been accredited but is not totally dyslexic specific. the 'games' have started. my daughter came home from school the other day and explained how she has been kept in at lunchtime play to rewrite a paragraph which was 5 - 7 lines in her 'bestest neatest ' handwriting - she also missed the next lesson as well to do it. when she had done it the teacher said to her how fantastic it was, how it meant she had gone up to a 3b which the teacher hadn't expected her to achieve this year. all of her work was that day was copied as the teacher had a meeting with someone at 4pm - no idea who and of course none of this has been mentioned to me by the school. the school have agreed for the OT to see her next month - OT going to be looking at her handwriting and dyspraxia. I don't think the school have realised she is an independent OT yet - she is our favourite OT! the school said they would refer her to the NHS OT but I found out no referral was ever done so sorted it but not heard anything from the NHS OT yet. school must be wondering now how an OT is seeing her when they didn't do the referral and they think I think they did! so they must realise also that I now know they haven't done it until the OT is psychic. I hate these games, I hate the tone of the heads voice when she left a message on the phone yesterday , its just horrible. now got the SEN officer trying to take her views. asked for her to send the form through and will get my daughter to do it over half term but silence from them now but that's there problem really. I will get her to do her views anyway which I can always submit in my evidence

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You can write down what your daughter told you about the copied handwriting and that she missed break and the next lesson to write those 5-7 lines. And you can include that in your evidence to SEND if you need to.

 

If the one next door is not totally dyslexia specific, what is it? What is the criteria to get a place. Do they have staff trained to Level 7 to teach and assess for dyslexia. Do they have any other children there with a diagnosis of Aspergers? Do they have speech therapists and OTs employed on site? What is the class size. What is the cognitive ability of these children and is it similar to your daughter.

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dh went into school today and asked why this had happened. the teacher told him it was for her IEP targets. her work that day was copied as she has a meeting with the sen officer. later I got a phone call from the sen officer inviting me to a meeting on weds for 90 mins - the sen officer, head and senco will be at the meeting. I guess it is to convince us that the school will do more and no statement still needed,

 

then at 5pm the head of SEN appeared at my front door! she came to hand deliver a bundle of documents I had requested. in there were notes from my daughters school file where the school state at age 10 she is academically age 6.5 yrs also talks about them advising me to get my daughter seen privately for dyslexia.

 

also got the sen panel minutes. the panel went ahead with my notes that I had sent in so they were then sent to another panel where I guess the decision was the same, theres no minutes from this second panel. on the panel paperwork there is an odd note which makes me think that the paperwork from school wasn't even put before the panel. my friend looked at the school file notes and she is convinced that a lot of the file notes are recent additions rather than being wrote at the time things had happened.

 

so off for the meeting on weds I go - wiil sit and listen - keep my mouth closed and see what they say - I still want her to be assessed and will continue to tribunal no matter what they promise - the school will convert to an academy in april plus the school in a different LA so my sen officer really has no power over the school.

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well had the meeting - it was basically just for the LA to assure us that no statement was needed as school were already doing everything they can - school opened the meeting by saying that they wont call the EPin as she is not 6 years behind as per school/la policy. they also stated that they wont call the EP in now and they wont call in the specialist teaching service either! the school refuse to tell me what the SEN budget is as the school is so small - I have looked it up online and its about 5k a year so I can kind of understand why school wont spend a single penny on her.

 

LA refuse to assess her as she doesn't meet the 'criteria' at age 10 she has to be at age 6 yrs 4 months and she was 6 year and 6 months! the case that was to panel was messed up so much - information from me and the school wasn't even put to panel as the LA decided to put it to panel before the deadline for everyone to get their information in. they then took it to a second panel of less members when they finally got the info but I assume they made the same decision as we got the refusal letter. Ive asked for everything that went to panel and know I have had time to go through it so much stuff is missing - the panel notes refer to information that I have no idea where the LA got it from.

 

the meeting was a bit of a farce - just for the LA to tick the box I guess. we said nothing and just stated that an assessment was needed to understand her needs fully - the sen officer wouldn't listen, school just sat on the fence - they accepted that she was make progress but also conceded that this was probably due to the specialist dyslexia teacher who they had nothing but praise for. they admitted that they had got her to do her work again and it would have scored her higher but they need to see that work o=more and once and school wrote that her handwriting is inconsistent. 2/3 targets in the iep haven't been met - the target that was met was for a target normally given to a reception/yr 1 kid - shes yr 5. school stated she is significantly behind with her peers - however LA just picked up on school saying she is making progress so they are happy - I can show that since year 2 she is falling further behind her peers - keot this bit quiet as they are too dumb topick this up - they are just looking at her slow creep up in NC levels without thinking that her peers are making even more progress so for her the gap is widening.

 

she is due to see an independent SALT next week and OT the following week. LA know we are getting OT done - we have had a referral for the NHS OT but we are getting nowhere with it so far. I handed my daughters views over at the meeting - she had wrote them herself at home so you can barely read them but what she has wrote is very powerful. I have scribed a second copy which I will send to tribunal later. so now on to Thursday and the LA have to respond - later at the end of the school day class teacher came out and spoke to her quickly - she confirmed that the LA have asked her to be a witness at the tribunal so I can guess we know where this is going.

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Will there be minutes of the meeting? I would suggest you write up your own and compare them to what arrives from the LA or school as it maybe very different to how you remember it.

 

You need to prove lack of progress, or the gap widening between her and her peers, or loss of skills etc.

 

If the minutes do not contain the LA's criteria for assessing for Dyslexia, send the Head of the EP service a letter stating that you have been told by the LA that they will not assess for Dyslexia until she is xx years behind her peers. That all the evidence says that the sooner dyslexia is diagnosed the better the prognosis. Ask the Head of the EP service to confirm that they refuse your parental request to assess for Dyslexia and ask them to confirm that they adhere to the LA criteria and are happy for a child to become xx years behind their peers before they are prepared to assess or make recommendations. Ask them to reply within 14 days.

 

I know that you have got professionals coming in to assess, but at this stage you are appealing a refusal to assess? Although your independent reports should give you a baseline from which to measure progress, which would be very useful, the chances are that you most likely will need further assessments carried out, especially for the transition to secondary and depending on the type of school that might be, and you only have a year to go before that.

 

Because what could happen is you get the Statement, it is not worded so that it is legally binding etc and you need to appeal that - or maybe the LA don't agree to your parental choice of placement. That would require you to appeal the finalised Statement. Your independent reports will be more than 6 months old, which gives the LA the opportunity to re-assess and come up with their own findings and recommendations, which will not be the same as the professionals you have paid for. Potentially that might involve your daughter starting at a school that cannot meet her needs, and you having to go back to tribunal to move her.

 

What is her Key Stage level now?

 

how much weight does the rose report hold at tribunal - The Rose Report was commissioned by the Government. But also the SEN Code of Practice says that "Each and every need MUST be identified". So also put that in your letter to the Head of the EP service. They do know this of course. But you putting it in writing and asking them to explain their behaviour works in your favour because the LA cannot deny knowledge of your concerns at any Tribunal, when you have specifically asked them to assess and asked them to abide by the SEN Code of Practice and identify each and every need and quantify and specify in terms of hours of support, staffing arrangements, therapy and specialist teaching input to meet each of those needs. That is what a Statement is for. They cannot deny her a Statement on the grounds she does not need it - and achieve that by not assessing and therefore not finding any needs. And also the LA might have their own criteria, that is not what the SEND Panel goes by. It goes by SEN law as per the Code of Practice.

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The meetiNg was not minuted although I have come home and wrote everything down so it was fresh in my mind and dh was with me.

 

I can show she is not making progress / she started year 2 about 2 NC behind her peers, now in year 5 she is about 5 point behind so the gap is growing and in the last year she has had a lot of intervention.

 

My headache also is that the school is a different LA to to my home so school are quoting there LA policy and the teacher is clearly stating school will not call the EP in as EP will not assess her as she is not 6 years behind, my la officer is sticking to their criteria which states that at her current age she should needs to be below 6 yrs 4 months - the school put her at 6 years 6 months. I only of course have the schools word that this is the LA policy however I am cautious that if I kick up a stink that the EP hasn't seen her then it could be argued that the school haven't done enough and I could lose the appeal. No EP has ever seen her , all we have is the dyslexia action report. School are making noises that she is making progress but have provided no evidence of anything yet. They made her stay in over playtime to re do a piece of work and then told her this would mean she could go up but in the meeting the teacher backtracked and said she couldn't really mark her up as only once piece of work so that improvement has to be seen across the board. The teacher accepts that her handwriting is all over the place and is not consistent at all. She currently at age 10 yrs 6 months and yr 5 is at NC 2a. I have looked at the rose report but i need to actually print it out and of through it. The la due to respond by Thursday, they will say I guess she is making progress but again they only have the teachers word for it. My daughters views which I got her to handwrite were more or less unreadable but what you could read was heartbreaking plus she also drew quite a harrowing picture.

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You know that to attend mainstream secondary she needs to be above level 3.

 

What will help is if you have an EP report that states her cognitive ability is around average, because then it demonstrates that she is underachieving because of specific learning difficulties as opposed to general learning disabilities ie. lower IQ.

 

Do you have in writing the LA's policy of not assessing for dyslexia until 6 years behind? If not get it, and you can do that by writing to the Head of the EP department saying that that is what you have been told and can they confirm that they refuse to assess her for dyslexia.

 

You could still end up at Tribunal and the LA will say themselves that there is more that they can do. So you need to ask for it in writing and get their refusal in writing to demonstrate that they would not do it. Because if the LA then say that they could do more, you can refer to the letter where you have asked them to do what they are now saying they can and will do, and that you did not do it.

 

And you really need to find the school you want because by the time of the Tribunal [for the finalised statement] you will be in transfer year or she might have already be at secondary stage.

 

When you write to the Head of the EP service also include a request for their advice on which school you should visit to consider for secondary, and if they won't name a specific school ask them to name a type of school. You need to know if she is MLD or average cognitive ability with SpLD and it will help to know what the LA is thinking. At 2A at age 10 they may be thinking MLD special school. And if they are thinking mainstream, then they need to get her levels up above 3.

 

Your argument at Tribunal [if you don't already have an EP report that has carried out standardised assessments which state her cognitive ability], is that the EP must assess her because at 2a she will not be able to access mainstream education as she has received no specialist teaching etc yet you, school? and the LA? are saying she should remain at mainstream for secondary. And if the LA thinks she has MLD, they need to assess for that using standardised assessments and also MUST provide a Statement to get access to any special primary or secondary school [which I presume is the criteria within your LA, ie. that a child that is going to attend a special school must have a Statement]. So you are in a win win situation using that argument.

 

Remember that whatever criteria any LA has, that does not mean it is legal. However the only place you can challenge that is at Tribunal. I know the SEND Panel will be on your side if you include documentation in your bundle that states the LA policy on not assessing for dyslexia until 6 years behind. You can highlight aspects of the Jim Rose report relevent to your case, and include that in your bundle too.

 

But you need to find your parental choice of school asap, so that you know what you are aiming for as your next Tribunal about the finalised Statement will also include part 4 [placement].

 

Don't worry about the LA or school saying she is making progress. You can prove she has fallen further behind. You have her own opinion and her own handwriting.

 

What is her current school teacher saying is the secondary school for her. That should tell you if they are thinking mainstream or special school.

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The dyslexia action report states she is of average ability.school just keep bleating that she is now making progress, no one has even raised the question of secondary as school and LA don't seem to think there are any issues and she will i guess be just fine. It's not been discussed at all. The LA are sticking to the fact that she is slowly creeping up the sublevels on the NC levels. LA state school can call in the EP if they want, school state they absolutely won't do that due to this 6 years behind business.

 

My own LA written criteria states that at age 10 she had to be nearly 4 years behind, she missed this criteria by 2 months. The school said in sept her reading age was 6 years 6 months but then the LA refer to school saying in nov is was age 8 years? But I asked for the paperwork sent to the LA and nowhere in the paperwork does it mention this new level. My EP report puts her at 6 and half. I think the age 8 results is for a different reading test which made it easier for her to guess the words.

 

I'm just stuck with everyone telling me everything's fine and refusing to do anything. There is the argument also that she is in a class of 10 with 2 staff so the ratio very high and she should be making rapid progress but that's simply not happening. I don't know if my LA may try and get the EP to see her before tribunal.

 

She is having specialist teaching which I am paying for - an hour a week. The teacher is starting form the beginning as she didn't even know her vowels. Specialist teacher is happy she is making progress but is telling me that secondary is going to over whelm her as she will simply find the reading alone too much too handle. I am going to get the dyslexia teacher to write a report. She also feels she has dyspraxia as well so we will know about that in 2 weeks as our favourite OT is going in to see her . Class teacher said no concerns re dyspraxia but admitted she had no idea what it was!

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Will get my bum into gear over secondary - at the moment as I've hit the brick wall just to even get a statement it feels like a mountain to get over without even thinking about winning that and then to fight for the actual statement and then finally onto schools. I don't see how I'm going to get over the first hurdle but you are right I need to get on and get school placement sorted

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You don't have to tell the LA your decision at this point. Leave that until the Draft Statement.

 

But knowing what school you are aiming for will help. Do you know if your daughter is around average cognitive ability?

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final evidence deadline next week so busy getting all the evidence together - got copies of her school work, got her to hand write her views although LA insisted they were done a second time by PP. We have had the LA response to tribunal now - they are saying she is making progress but provided no evidence of it - she has slowly been going up the sub levels on the NC but her peers are doing more so the gap is actually widening but neither school nor LA picked up on that yet. school saying shes fine. LA say her needs can be met at school action - shes not even on school action plus.

 

dyslexia teacher wrote a report and checked her levels - shes made no progress and thats with being in a class of 10 with TA support and the extra teaching. SALT report was shocking as well - on the 1st centile for some things, her working memory on the 2nd centile, OT report came in today - although she doesnt have dyspraxia she does have difficulties and scored 0.5 centile on one of the tests. OT picked up that she struggles in a noisy class room so needs to be in a small class, she needs help from a TA and she needs a sensory diet. small class and less noise is going to make mainstream secondary difficult i guess.

 

the LA have been playing lots of games - we had over a 3 week period 4 little visits to our home from various LA officers on the pretext of hand delivering documents. its been pretty stressful and im sure that in the next few days as we had to the next deadline something is going to happen. school who have refused point blank to call in EP or specialist teaching service said to me 2 days ago that the SEN governor has agreed to fund the EP to see her - my guard is up and ive got a feeling the LA is behind it so ive said that in light of us being so close now taht it would be prudent to wait until after the tribunal as if they agree to assess than an EP would see her anyway and it would be a different EP to the one the school would call in plus im sure this EP report would be put straight into the hands of the LA - i cant get my own EP report as my last one is less than 6 months old. so now i wait and see what happens next - my evidence pile is huge - LA response was about 2 pages long with 7 appendix - i think im going to have about 100!!!!

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