Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Canopus

EBacc - triple science and foreign languages

Recommended Posts

Does your kid's secondary school require students to have a predicted C grade in a foreign language to be allowed to take the triple science GCSE?

 

I have received an unhappy story of a secondary school student with AS who is being denied the opportunity to take triple science and higher tier maths for GCSE simply because he struggles at French and is predicted lower than a C grade. This is despite him being in the top quartile of top set for both maths and science and predicted A* grade in both subjects. The reason is because the school allocates students into an EBacc set where all take triple science and higher tier maths, and a non-EBacc set where all take double science and intermediate tier maths. As a foreign language is a requirement for EBacc, then all students in the EBacc set take one but it is optional for students in the non-EBacc set. His teachers feel that he is up to the academic standard required to be in the EBacc set with the exception of the his French teacher who recommends that he drop French for GCSE. The student himself is happy to take French and accept a low grade if it enables him to take triple science and higher tier maths. His parents have discussed the issue with the deputy head but he does everything by the book and is unhelpful. There are only two students in the school who are up to EBacc standard on every subject except for foreign languages. To make matters worse most of the kids he gets on well with are in the EBacc set and the non-EBacc set is full of kids who disrespect him.

 

He feels very demoralised at this situation. His parents are doubly heartbroken in that he is denied the opportunity to excel in subjects he is good at and the way the government is trying to get more kids to study STEM subjects but allows schools to impose stupid barriers by having to be good at a foreign language. They all think that the EBacc disadvantages students with uneven profiles more than it works against students who's strengths are the arts and creative subjects.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This doesn't sound fair to me. My younger son has now chosen his options but the triple science which he is expected to learn is based on exams in the next couple of weeks. The top scorer's are given the triple science option. Unfortunately he has broken his writing arm so will be interesting to see how that will work. He is rubbish at languages as well but has to learn one. I think some flexibility and reasonable adjustment is required as AS is defined as a disability. Doesn't sound like the school are doing this. Doesn't sound like this person is getting the right support. If he is willing to undertake French the school could always give extra tuition.

 

Personally I was useless at exams.

 

Put concerns in writing as deputy head is not going by the right book. Perhaps check the schools disability and SEN policies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suspected at the outset that it's all down to timetabling. When the EBacc set have their foreign language lessons there are no other subjects available for students who are weak at foreign languages and the school will not give them a free study period instead. Eventually the deputy head reluctantly admitted this.

 

Nobody is sure exactly how disability and SEN policies square with EBacc. Triple science and higher tier maths is not a right even if students are of exceptional calibre. The deputy head re-iterates that the student in question will still get GCSEs in maths up to B grade and double science up to A* grade. His parents have written a letter stressing that he wants to study maths and science beyond GCSE level and taking double science and intermediate tier maths will put him at a disadvantage. Many A Level maths courses will not accept intermediate tier maths GCSEs. The deputy head doesn't care less. The parents get the impression that he is career building and by being a hard man puts him in a better position to take a position of a head teacher (of another school) in the future.

 

Part of the problem is that the student finds the French teacher rubbish and unhelpful and there is also a personality clash. The student has asked for more help with French but due to cutbacks the school is unable to offer it.

 

The parents are looking at another school that is more accommodating and willing to offer triple science and higher tier maths. If all else fails they will withdraw their son, stating a reason why, and find alternatives outside of the school system as they refuse to accept stupid compromises and second best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does he have a statement? or on SAP?

 

I would say that most people who are capable of getting A/A* in Maths ought to be able to get a C in French if they are taught correctly. There is a good correlation between maths ability and some linguistic skills and many AS children also have good memories. You can approach a foreign language either as a science or an arts subject, and I would expect the scientific approach to suit AS children.

 

Sounds as if some negotiation is required, perhaps they can arrange some additional hep in the French. As he has a disability the school has a responsibility to make reasonable adjustments but clearly they can't arrange the whole school timetable around a single pupil. His parents should ask (as they probably have) that they waive the predicted grade standard in his case (sounds as if they have done that) - or perhaps they can come up with some other solution to the timetabling problem

 

They can quote the equality act but that is really a bit of a bluff - it is difficult to say what view a disability tribunal would take, and anyway by the time they got there it would probably be too late.

 

It would also help if the parent

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He doesn't have a statement of SEN. Both primary and secondary schools refused to offer him a statement because his ability in literacy and numeracy is too high.

 

The non-EBacc set has kids with a wide variation in ability for foreign languages. Some who are hopeless are not studying it for GCSE and others are taking two foreign language GCSEs with predicted A* grades. Very few of the kids in the non-EBacc set are above average ability in maths and science. There are more talented linguists in the non-EBacc set than in the EBacc set which contains a significant proportion of kids taking one language GCSE scraping a C grade but none who are completely hopeless.

 

The parents have concluded that it won't help anybody or do their son an ounce of justice if he is put into the non-EBacc set. They will not be fobbed off with false promises or stupid compromises, like being put in top class in the non-EBacc set with the potential to move up to the EBacc set if things go well. It's blindingly obvious that if he doesn't take a foreign language for GCSE then there is no chance at all of being moved up into the EBacc set. If he takes French for GCSE then there is no guarantee that his standard will improve any more in the non-EBacc set than the EBacc set due to the wide variation of abilities of kids in the non-Ebacc set.

 

What has happened is that the parents have discussed the matter with the French teacher explaining that they are acting in an unjust way by depriving their son of the opportunity to take triple science and higher tier maths simply because he struggles with French. They have suggested creating two classes in the EBacc set, one for kids who are good at French aiming at A* grade and another for kids who struggle and are happy with a C grade. They are still awaiting the outcome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I am sure you know - it is not up to the school to determine whether he needs a statement, but if he doesn't have one then it can't help here (and almost certainly too late to worry about anyway).

 

It is good to here that the school are listening - I hope they go with the suggestion of the two French streams.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I am sure you know - it is not up to the school to determine whether he needs a statement, but if he doesn't have one then it can't help here (and almost certainly too late to worry about anyway).

I already know this but head teachers provide information to LA officials that they use to decide whether to provide a statement if a parent tries to request one, which is what happened. That is where the bit about the high ability in literacy and numeracy comes from.

 

It is good to here that the school are listening - I hope they go with the suggestion of the two French streams.

The parents are not holding their breath. Again, it boils down to timetabling and staff availability.

 

It has been mentioned that if the deputy head manages to put the student into the non-EBacc set then he will include this on his CV to demonstrate that he is a tough individual that does not cave in to parent's requests even if they are in the interest of the child. Whether this is true or not is difficult to say but the parents can't help thinking that there is something political or career related in the mix. The deputy head seems unperturbed about preventing one of the best students in science and maths in his year from achieving top grades in GCSE, and making him share many lessons with people who disrespect him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would have thought that as being on the spectrum means you must have some difficulty with speech and language and social communication that affects your mother tongue to a clinically significant degree, that that would almost certainly mean additional difficulties with a foreign language.

 

There are some with AS that have a savant ability with languages, but that is the exception rather than the norm.

 

I don't know if Disability Discrimination Law would be helpful in this instance at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It depends on the individual and is a function of several variables. As bed32 has stated, the style of the teaching and learning plays a large part. I think the problem is that this year the French course is very oral and based around social situations which the student finds difficult to handle. A course that is more grammatical would be more in tune with the student's way of thinking. He is interested in foreign languages and has learned a bit of Russian and Japanese outside of school. The deputy head knows this but it means diddly squat to him.

 

The parents have written to the school governors about the matter and are awaiting the reply.

Edited by Canopus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good news. He has been allowed to take higher tier maths and triple science for GCSE. He is also taking French for GCSE but the school sensibly decided to have different sets according to ability each with students from both the EBacc and non-EBacc set. His parents suspect that success could be connected with the resignation of Michael Gove as education secretary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's great news. Not sure I understand the connection to Mr Gove though.

 

I'm still trying to figure than one out. It might have something to do with many of his education reforms destined to come to an end. It is quite possible that next year's Y10 will not have EBacc and non-EBacc sets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...