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bjkmummy

result from the tribunal is here

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and we won !! that's 2 tribunals that we have now won in 15 months - not out of the woods yet as ive got an awful feeling a NIL is coming our way but today the sun is shining and I am so so pleased. thank you all for holding my hand through this especially sally who as always is truly fabulous!!!

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Great news, bjkmummy. :notworthy: Well done to you for all your hard work and I hope you get exactly what you need for your daughter. :notworthy:

All the best.

 

~ Mel ~

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What a relief to finally get the Decision letter. I know the feeling. Well done. I know you have more infront of you, but this is a good start. Now you really need to be looking for secondary placement. Somewhere that can meet all her needs. Are any of the schools her brothers are at a possibility?

 

Anyway, take some time off, while we have this glorious weather, because it cannot last for ever.

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no - her twin brother school is a specialist asd school. her elder brothers is an special school but a generic one - he has autism and some learning difficulties - hes still on P levels at age 12

 

some of the grounds we won on was that the panel recognised the need for specialist teaching that we are funding and that if we stopped paying for it then the school would need to buy it in and that they had concerns that her progress has been slow in such a small school of 24 children that they have concerns how this will be managed in a mainstream secondary school where she will not get the current level of support or small class sizes. they were also concerned that all of her needs are still to be identified. heard nothing from the LA yet which isn't surprising as we only got the decision on Friday -they have 4 weeks so will be interesting to see how long it takes. our dyslexia teacher wants to stop in sept as she is retiring.

 

I don't know what to do about secondary - there is a school in county but across the other side which has 'access' to specialist teachers as in they will come in for part of the week, a classroom where the children are withdrawn from lessons and she would drop languages.

 

nearest dyslexia specialist school is in Lichfield but too far to travel each day and is a day school only. there is an independent school in the next city which has a unit type placement for dyslexia and is crested accreditied but also concerned about sending her to an out of county school and isolating her socially and also the battle that any out of county school is going to be bring but I think used to fighting now!

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It is difficult trying to decide between a local or out of county school.

 

How is your daughter now? Does he have friends in school? Does she socialise with them out of school? What do you feel her social skills are like compared to your other boys?

 

My advice would be that she is NOT making progress in the small school and small class sizes she has now. So you need smaller classes, specialist teaching.

 

In any school that does not provide specialist teaching as part of their standard delivery, that means that any specialist teaching will be reviewed every year under your daughters Statement, and so that could potentially be reduced, or increased every year [but usually LAs are looking to reduce].

 

So you need to get specific Dyslexia qualified teacher to come into whatever secondary school she attends. And they would deliver the specific literacy [and numeracy if needed] programme for a set time each week eg. 1 hour each week for literacy or numeracy [the specialist teacher SHOULD detail what length of time the session should be]. That same teacher should train/liaise and give advice to the class teacher and a specific teaching assistant who should practice that literacy programme [and numeracy?] every day for xx minutes.

 

The specialist teacher should also advise school on how her work should be presented in class eg. does your daughter need all her work on a laptop. Does she need voice recognition software. Does she need a reader/writer etc.

 

What is MOST IMPORTANT is that the specialist teacher is trained to a level to both teach AND ASSESS. Because you need that specialist teacher to be able to assess and monitor if your daughter is making progress. At the time we sought this out they needed to be qualified to a LEVEL 7.

 

There is a website https://www.patoss-dyslexia.org/ where you can find the level of teacher you are looking for.

 

Then you also want including in the Statement, which must be in the specialist teachers report of assessment and recommendations. That they attend the Annual Review. That they give IEP targets to school. That they train/laise with the class teacher, TA and parents.

 

They must quantify and specify as above so that you know exactly what they are doing. As you know that is the most important. So try to find a teacher that does know about the SEN Statementing and Annual Review process.

 

Visit any potential school and see what they can provide. I think the most important is to remember how she is not making progress in the current setting so she needs significantly more than she is receiving now.

Edited by Sally44

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im going to take your advice above sally and meet with the secondary school hopefully in the next week or so and see what they say - I will ask them all the questions.

 

the LA EP phoned yesterday - he is not going to do any assessments with her as he says that looking through her file he can see she has had lots of assessments recently (which is true) and he has asked if he can use the dyslexia action EP report which I have agreed to as that puts her on the 2nd centile across all core subjects.

 

I am disappointed that the LA seem to be doing the bare minimum - the tribunal ruled that all of her needs need to be identified and yet the LA are just going to go on our reports - they are getting no SALT or OT and just the generic paed report. I have concerns that they will do the assessment purely because they have been ordered to do so and then come back and say her needs can still be met at school action plus. the EP report they are going to use is the same report they have had since December when the panel refused the assessment. also this report is now over 6 months old as it was written at the end of Oct. I suppose if they do issue a NIL and we head back to tribunal the LA will hardly again be able to argue that they have fully assessed all of her needs

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If SEND Ordered that ALL her needs must be identified, then the LA must comply with that.

 

Typically she must have difficulties with speech and language and social communication to be on the spectrum. So I would recommend that you write to the LA Inclusion Officer and ask that your daughter is referred for a Speech and Language Assessment. I would ask the LA which department they would use, and I would recommend you then phone that department. Ask to speak to the Head of the Department and ask that they allocate a SALT that has experience of assessing and working with children on the autistic spectrum. Say that you want them to assess his expressive and receptive speech and language skills. That you want them to do that using Standardised Assessments. And that you also want her social communication to be assessed as well. And after the telephone conversation, put that all in writing, along with a copy of the Order from SEND.

 

You can ask the LA to refer to an Occupational Therapist, again for the same reasons ie. the Order from SEND to identify all her needs. See what they say. They may say the NHS has to do that. And I would then check that with IPSEA, as the SEND process is changing in September 2014.

 

Regarding the LA EP. If you feel there are needs that have not been identified, I would speak with the EP and ask them to assess. Yes your daughter might have undergone a number of assessments. But the Order clearly says that ALL her needs must be identified. What do you think needs adding to the list of needs your currently have detailed in your reports?

 

The EP is also responsible for assessing emotional literacy.

 

Are you in the process of getting a diagnoses of an ASD?

 

You are within your rights to list her needs - the ones currently identified, and ask the LA EP to quantify and specify provision to meet each of those needs [unless your reports already detail that, in which case the Statement should be a cut and paste job of those reports. If there are other needs you believe she has, which are not currently identified, then tell the LA EP that and ask him to assess. Again using Standardised Assessments [as that gives a baseline measurement from which to measure progress].

 

Does your EP report say anything about class sizes or the type of school she needs? Again this is something the LA EP should address as part of the quantifying and specifying requirement of the Code of Practice. If she has not made progress in a class of 12? She needs smaller class sizes. What does the LA EP recommend in terms of schools that are suitable for your to visit that have smaller class sizes than the current school, and which are ASD specific, but for children who are cognitively able?

Edited by Sally44

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at the moment she is purely dyslexic with a few other bits thrown in - however its all kicked off at school and im going in for a meeting today - a close friend last night had the balls to say to me that she thinks my daughter is on the spectrum - hit me hard I have to say but it is what it is and now I have to move on and work out what I need to do. I am aware of someone who specialises in dx girls on the spectrum so have contacted them to see if they will assess her - this is turning into pandoras box - the more we scratch the more is coming out and im struggling to deal with it but deal with it I must.

 

my OT reports makes recommendations for a statement and what she would need. the EP report was the dyslexia report so although it makes some recommendations it doesn't go far enough - if the LA issue a NIL or a water downed statement I will go and get an indie EP report then - just wanted to wait and see what card the LA play first

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I think, like you, the LA are worried that the more they assess, the more they could find, and the more it will cost them to fund that Statement. But that is what the process is supposed to be about.

 

So, my advice would be to get back in touch with the EP and say that your daughter has ONLY been assessed for dyslexia by a psychologist, and that you want a complete cognitive and emotional literacy assessment using standardised assessments.

 

The fact that you already have two children on the spectrum means she should definately be assessed too. I cannot imagine how hard it is for you to have to consider that all three children are on the spectrum - but it happens. And as you know each child is different and will have different strengths and weaknesses. But you need her to be assessed, even if they definitely rule it out you will at least know she is not ASD, instead of always wondering if she is. And if she is, then she needs a diagnoses to get access to the things your sons get.

 

Here is a link to the NICE Guidance, which will help you ask the EP the right questions, and even mention you have been reading the NICE Guidance for assessment/referral for diagnoses of an ASD.

 

http://www.nice.org.uk/CG128

 

Yes you may well need an independent report at your appeal about the finalised Statement. BUT if an ASD diagnosis is a possibility, it needs to be looked at now, as it can take months to get a diagnoses.

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im seriously considering taking her privately sally to be dx. the last few days have been hard as she has had an awful time at school = mainly to do with social issues at school - teacher has dealt with it but if shes struggling in a class of 12.... met with teacher yesterday and she says that the EP is looking at doing some cognitive tests with her. teacher still saying she doesn't understand how we will get a statement even after this assessment as she is still higher than a 1A which means she still doesn't meet the criteria for a statement. I think I need to just give up with the teacher as she just doesn't have a clue. in tribunal she assured the panel she would refer her to the specialist teaching service given the difficulties the SALt report highlighted - she phoned them , they didn't know what to suggest so that's all she is going to do! the OT report, she spoke to their LA EP and they've advised I go back to the NHS and ask for whatever it is she needs. and then to round it all off the teacher kept talking about when she had her chat twith the children she explained to them that my daughter was different to them so they need to deal with her differently - I give up........... hence why im looking at taking her to be assessed by margo sharp who has a lot of experience with girls. the EP is due in the next week so will speak to him but he is quite a sit on the fence person so don't think he would be someone who would support us - he gave evidence at her brothers tribunal.

 

im also meeting the senco at the secondary next week so will ask all the questions I need to ask

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I'm sorry, but this teacher does not know what she is talking about. The SEN Code of Practice specifically states the DIFFERENT types of SEN. It can be cognitive, speech and language and social communicaton, physical, emotional, sensory.

 

My son is on a level 4 and is at an independent ASD specific school. It is nothing to do with academic levels - only to the extent that the child is cognitively able, but is not making progress.

 

Whose "Criteria" is she talking about - the LA's??? Because whatever the LA may have as their own criteria for issuing a Statement SEN law trumps it. As you found out at your recent tribunal. The SEND Panel believe she has significant needs, which should be assessed to get a complete picture, because they think she most likely will need a Statement.

 

I would speak with the EP to find out what assessments they are going to do. You want STANDARDISED ASSESSMENTS. Not just observations. And it must take into account her Dyslexia and the fact that she might be on the spectrum.

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this teacher actually was told clearly by the tribunal judge when she attempted to say my daughter didn't meet the LA criteria for an assessment that the tribunal were not interested in 'policy' and the law only - the teacher even now cannot understand why the judge has said that as her LA training courses have made it clear that unless they meet the LA policy they wont be assessed. im arguing with someone who is currently the senco and her class teacher - she just doesn't get it.

 

the salt report we have had done both state that she has expressive and receptive language delay - she was assessed for social communication at the SALT was looking more from a dyslexia view point rather than ASD. I have decided to go with a specialist SALt to assess her who can also do the disco - im doing the paperwork this weekend and sending all of her reports to her so hopefully she will be assessed properly asap - the person I am using is expensive but she is a specialist in asd in girls so at least I will know one way or another.

 

 

got a letter from the NHS yesterday - I thought it was about the generic medical they have for statementing but letter seemed odd as it was asking for reports and wasn't an appointment - I phoned and queried it and they had sent me the GP letter by mistake - they also said there is a waiting list for an appointment as they have a lack of paeds so looks like the medical report wont meet the LA deadline so more delay I guess

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As I am sure you realise - you can't really rely on the NHS (or the LA) for any help in this process. The NHS have neither the expertise nor the resources to assess fully, and the LA are a little stuck in having to rely on the NHS, who are often too little too late. The LA are not going to put anything in a statement that isn't based on an "expert" report so if they don't get the reports then with the best will in the world (and not many LAs have that) they cannot produce a good statement.

 

It is almost certain you will need independent reports sometime - your only decision is when. You either do them now and feed them into the assessment process in the hope you get a half-decent statement or wait until you get the statement (or not) and then appeal again.

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this is what ive been trying to decide bed - the timing of it - ive decided to try and get this assessment done now to feed into the statementing assessment and that should hopefully fend off them trying to issue a NIL and see what kind of statement comes back - if I have to appeal again then I will still need to get an indie EP report done as well.

 

by getting this assessment done at least it will decide if ASD is an issue as well what help she needs in school with her other difficulties as well. my concern now is will the person be able to see her before the deadline - the LA have given me a deadline of mid july to give my views etc which is 6 weeks into the 10 week assessment process so even after ive submitted my views I would have a few weeks to get a further report in which I may need to do. the LA EP is coming in a week so at least he will go in first and then my expert will go in hopefully before the end of this term.

 

winning this appeal has just opened up an even bigger can of worms and battle it seems

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I think it might be worth speaking with IPSEA about the LA assessing for a Statement.

I presume, if it works the same way as with a finalised Statement, that if they issue a Note in Lieu, and you appeal, that the LA can decide to issue a Statement before the actual Tribunal Date. And of course that will depend on what evidence is coming in from their experts, and yours.

 

It isn't fair that you have to keep paying for independent assessments due to a refusal to assess, then more so that you don't get a Note in Lieu, and then again to appeal the finalised Statement. I'm not sure how SEN law is changing this September. Have you spoken with IPSEA about that?

 

If you can appeal the Note in Lieu, it might be worth waiting to see what evidence is in by the deadline. Even if all the reports are in the likelihood is that the LA will issue a Note in Lieu or produce a proposed Statement that will be pants anyway. I'm just trying to think of how you can save money and get reports once rather than again and again. And to time it so that your reports are the most up to date.

 

If the LA does not get the LA EP and the NHS SALT to assess, then you have evidence immediately that they have not even attempted to identify all her needs, as per the Order from SEND. So you would appeal the Note in Lieu [if that is what they produce], and get your independent reports in before the deadline for submissions for that Appeal. And then if they issue a Proposed Statement that does not contain everything in the independent reports you've had done, you would appeal the finalised Statement too. And if you have another Tribunal hopefully your independent reports would still be less than 6 months old?

 

Has your daughter been referred to the NHS Speech and Language Therapy department. Have you phoned them and asked for a speech therapist with expertise in working with and assessing children on the autistic spectrum?

Edited by Sally44

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Does your LA routinely issue NILs? I know ours doesn't so once they have agreed to assess then a statement almost always follows. You would hope that having lost the tribunal on assessment they would not have the temerity to issue an NIL but if that is likely then any input you put into that will be wasted.

 

If you want a DX then that is better done through the NHS - can you persuade your GP to refer you? I am not sure of the value of a formal DX obtained privately. OTOH of all the assessments we have had done it was that which was done by the psychologist that was the most useful (I don't think a psychologist can give a DX). All the DX says is "ASD" that gives little clues to his specific needs. The psychologist (who in our case was both a clinical and educational psychologist) is the one who went into detail into the strengths and weaknesses and provided the majority of the recommendations that eventually became his statement.

 

We also passed the results of the tests and report the private EP did on to the LA EP which worked well as they were able to agree with the findings without doing much work and without having to do the tests themselves (which they don't have the time to do and often aren't qualified to do either).

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as far as I am aware my area has never issued a NIL but then until me they had never been to tribunal over a refusal to assess! im concerned about the NIL due to something the LA wrote in their response to the appeal - that even if an assessment highlighted more issues then they still wouldn't issue a statement plus the tribunal judgement is only ordering an assessment - it cant say whether that assessment would lead to a statement. common sense and from what else was in the judgement in how much she is struggling you would think they would issue a statement but I wouldn't like to call it.

 

ive decided to have a week of thinking about things before I rush in - im meeting the secondary school senco this week and the LA EP next week so I will get a good feel I think of what help is out there and where I need to be fighting for her. I doubt very much that the NHS would see her - she is very very passive and it will need a good expert in asd in girls to see her which is why I was planning to get her seen privately - also she has significant delay in SALT and the expert I was going to get her to see is also a specialist SALT as well as an expert in asd for girls so I would have all angles covered so to speak without battling for years. services here are very poor and her twin brother we battled for 5 years to get him dx and he is blatantly obvious so with my daughter I honestly think we will just go round and round in circles - my biggest fear is her mental health - she has two brother with asd, she has dyslexia and other learning difficulties so if there is a possiblility that she may have asd I would rather resolve it soon rather than later especially as the secondary school years are looming so I can get her the support. in an ideal world I would love for the NHS to see. she had a private OT report done which was so detailed - she then also did see the NHS OT and although they agreed with our report etc the report that came back from the NHS was absolutely dire as it had no meat on the bones. I hate getting indie reports as I feel that the NHS should be there but in these days of cash strapped services its just so hard now. even getting an appointment for her medical for her statement is going to be long winded and she is now on a waiting list as they have such a lack of paedatricains so the report is not going to be ready for the deadline

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It is almost impossible to get an NHS or LA professional to quantify and specify.

 

I think you need to know if she is on the spectrum.

 

I also think you need to seriously consider that she is not coping in a primary setting in class sizes of 12 and she is not on a level 3 so would find it very hard to access mainstream education and how it is delivered [not ASD or Dyslexia specific] - and she definately would struggle with the class sizes and environment and the need to be independent in a mainstream secondary school.

 

I think a SEND Panel would see that. But i'm sure your LA is planning on her going to mainstream secondary.

 

When you visit the mainstream secondary you need to know what are the smallest class sizes they can provide.

How would she access the curriculum on her current KS levels for maths and english.

What amount [in terms of hours] of 1:1 support could the school provide without a Statement.

What access she would get to SALT or EP via the schools budget [and ask what that is each year and for how many pupils] eg. it maybe something like 6 hours EP time for 2000 kids per term/per annum. And if they have a disruptive child they would most likely get most or all of the EP input.

Ask what would trigger a referal to the EP or SALT ie. behaviour, low attainment etc. Would they refer your daughter on what you have told them? Most likely not.

What specialist teachers they have in the school for dyslexia. What level are they qualified to [school probably won't even know what you mean. Contact PATOSS and ask them about the level of specialist teacher needed to both teach and assess a child with dyslexia. I believe they have to be qualified to level 7.

Remember to also ask your LA for how many dyslexia specialist teachers they have. And again to what level they are trained and can they teach and assess. Ask if they go into mainstream schools. Ask how the school would access their input. Ask how many hours of specialist 1:1 teaching they could provide in school [they probably won't provide any - mine only gave telephone advice to school!].

Ask how many other pupils in the secondary school have a diagnosis of ASD and Dyslexia [co-morbid, not separate diagnoses].

Ask what the typical class sizes are.

Ask what class size your child would be put in.

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I know the answer to how many specialist teachers there are in my LA - 0 - not a single one and I have that in writing and that was submitted in my last hearing. we have no specialist teaching service whatsoever. the LA apparently (my daughters teacher told me this as the SEN officer was complaining to her in the waiting room at the tribunal) devolved all the money to the schools so they could employ them directly - all the secondaries here are academies. one academy has a TA specialist in dyslexia and the other one im going to see tomorrow have part time dyslexia teachers - they said she would get an hours worth of teaching a week. I will take your questions tomorrow and go and get my answers.

 

my daughter also has a significant delay in her receptive language and working memory and also has difficulties in her expressive language as well. ive been offered another appointment privately by a highly regarded specialist in girls in London - she does accept private medical insurance so im off now to check if we would be covered on that which would be helpful if we are

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well I went to the secondary school and I left it tears. senco was completely different this time - they have no unit so she would be in mainstream classes of the usual size and nothing they could /would do about that. they told me before they had specialist teachers but this time it was more about 'if' they have specialist teachers when she got there. any TA support would be shared and used for other children. she blanked most of my questions and wouldn't really answer them - I get the feeling that she realised who I was and we are 'that' family who go to tribunal and fight. she said last time about how well she got on with the sen team at the LA and dropped in this time how she was at a meeting with them all a few days before - im now in absolute limbo - the nearest school I can find is 150 miles away. a dyslexia specialist boarding school is approx. £22k a year. as it stands today I don't even have a statement - on Monday I come face to face with the LA EP and I know he will ask me what I think she needs and my mind is blank. I say she needs specialist teaching but have nothing to quantify how many hours etc, its accepted she needs a laptop so I guess will need to be taught how to touch type etc. I just know we are just going through the motions to them to give her the least amount of support possible

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It is not for you to say what she needs. You are her mum. They are the professionals, they should assess and tell you what she needs. They should quantify and specify.

 

Regarding mainstream. I think the SENCO has spelt out how it would be for your daughter, and I think you can see she would not cope in a mainstream size class.

 

However, a Statement is a legally binding document, so anything the Panel Order the LA to include in the Statement MUST be provided. The difficulty is going to be with things like class size. Would they see it as a good use of their resources to put together a class of no more than 8 pupils, so that your daughter had the right class size? And all the therapy and specialist teaching would have to be quantified and specified too. And with it being within a mainstream, that gives the school/LA the chance at every AR to reduce the provision/support, where that would be impossible to do in a specific independent school where everything was provided 'as standard'.

 

I think it is also going to be very important whether she is on the spectrum, as that would give you access to other types of independent school nearer to home. And they would have to buy in specialist dyslexia teaching. That is what happened with my son. He wasn't mainstream material. We found an independent ASD school that costs £55K+ a year. They have SALT's and OT's employed on site. So we said that was the only school that could meet his ASD needs, but that they could not meet his dyslexia and dyscalculia needs. So we got quotes for a suitably qualified teacher [qualified to level 7 to both teach and assess], and SEND agreed that the Statement should also include additional funding for that teaching. So it is possible to achieve.

 

This mainstream school is most likely to have other children with SEN in school that would need small class sizes, but they might be MLD rather than Dyslexia.

 

Would the LA argue that having to set up such a class would not be a good use of their resources? It would probably be cheaper than a dyslexia specific school. And you would probably argue that your daughter needed these things [as per your reports] ie. small class sizes no bigger than 8, 1:1 dyslexia teaching of xx hours per week, practised daily with a TA etc. But what if she is on the spectrum too??

 

I think a worst case scenario is that you get all the support/therapy/teaching into the mainstream and see if she makes progress. If she doesn't you wouldhave that evidence that she needs a specific type of school because she will not have made progress.

 

Are either of the schools your sons go to a possibility? Isn't one of your son's in an ASD unit?

Edited by Sally44

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On the whole I think the dyslexia schools are very good, even for ASD children if they are not too autistic. They also have the benefit that they tend to be cheap and so it may be more cost effective for the LA to send her there than to provide additional support in mainstream

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I think that's where she maybe best bed - yes there is a possibility she may have asd - if she is given support etc then she will probably be okay - she has no behavourial issues as such and is compliant as school and if anything is too passive so has gone straight under the radar. dyslexia boarding school is approx. £22k per year whereas a more specialist one I looked at was about £85k to board. her twin brothers indie asd day school is £42k plus £28k transport.

 

her elder brother is in a special school but I regard it more like a unit type school as its in a separate building from the main school and is secondary only with about 50 kids in the whole part of it. there are a mixture of sen kids in there including some children who can be challenging and I think she would find them very difficult to cope with especially with having a very demanding brother at home plus don't think the school has a real specialism in dyslexia but more general special needs. there are girls there and girls with asd who appear to be quite high functioning - some of them went to mainstream secondary but it failed so they moved to this school. the school is popular now and is over subscribed and techincially she is also out of county so would struggle to get a place and im not sure it would be right for her anyway.

 

at the moment I need to focus I guess on getting the statement as a NIL is still a possibility which would bring another tribunal

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Don't be drawn on saying what you want. Because at this point the professionals should be assessing and saying what that is. You don't want to say what you want, and be offered it, and then find she actually needs alot more than you agreed to. You then end up at a tribunal with the LA saying "Mrs asked for xxxx and we provided it and she still is not happy."

 

So "What you want" is "I want my daughter to be properly and thoroughly assessed using Standardised Assessments to determine what ALL her needs [dyslexia, speech and communication, ASD?, dyspraxia, sensory processing disorder and any other things you think are relevent] are and to quantify and specify for those needs so that we can find the right educational placement so that she will be happy to go into school and will make progress and reach her potential."

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that's what I thinking sally - hubby wants to go in and say she needs x y and z - im not convinced at this stage as we still don't know what all her needs are so if we said we wanted 15 hours TA support and 2 hours specialist teaching that's likely what they may offer but they will have done no actual assessment of her so we are no further forward than we were 8 months ago. the reports we have had done have shown more needs - exactly what happened with her twin. LA are scared I guess to dig any deeper after how they got their fingers burnt with her brother when they made an attempt to dismiss our reports. what I also learnt is that this EP will test her areas of strength only - he told me he was just going to use our dyslexia action report but has told the class teacher he is doing cognitive tests - hes going to have a very limited time with her so not going to be a very full assessment at all. sounds like the teacher will also be there as well.

 

with her twin we got 20 hours and we were so relieved he got a statement that we were happy - that was to last a matter of months as the placement fell apart and his support was upped to full time but by that point he become so upset that he was out of school so never got the benefit of those full time hours so I am cautious this time. its likely that the asd assessment on my daughter wont be done until august so probably after the time line of the statement but guess I can send the report in late or when the NIL appears........

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I would phone the EP and speak with them and ask them what assessments [named assessments], they are going to carry out eg. British Abilities II, WISC etc. And ask that the EP carries out the complete assessment [and see what they say to that], and then follow up that conversation with a letter. Eg.

 

"Further to our telephone conversation today I would just like to clarify what we discussed. As you are aware, the Special Educational Needs and Disability Tribunal has ordered that our daughter is to be assessed to identify all her needs. You have informed me that you will be completing the xxx test [or confirm they have said they will not carry out standardised assessments - depends on the outcome of the conversation], but that you will not be carrying out the complete test as you won't have time.

 

I want to raise our concerns about this as the SEND Order specifically says that the Local Authority must identify all her needs, and we do not see how you can do that if you do not use standardised assessments or only select elements of that assessment instead of completing the entire assessment, which would identify all her strengths and weaknesses and would highlight any other areas of need our daughter may have.

 

As per our discussion, can you please confirm that you will carry out standardised assessments of cognitive ability so that we have a baseline measurement from which to measure progress, or explain to us in writing why you are not going to do that. Please also bear in mind that we have two other children who are both on the autistic spectrum, one being her twin, and it maybe that our daughter is as well.

 

Can you also quantify and specify the support and provision our daugthter will require for each need you identify. Please follow the SEN Code of Practice and be specific in terms of hours of support, staffing arrangements, therapy input etc.

 

Depending on the outcome of your assessments could you please recommend which secondary schools can meet all our daughters needs so that we are able to visit them."

 

Or something similar, I think you get the gist.

 

And yes, what your husband wants to do is to say what she 'needs', but you don't know do you. And it isn't your job to quantify and specify either. That is what professionals are for. That is what the SALT, EP, OT and other professionals should be doing. If they don't, that is what you appeal about and SEND would go on your reports recommendations, or if the LA/NHS professionals also attend they would ask them to quantify and specify in terms of hours/staffing arrangements etc.

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the meeting happened today and was kind of surreal really - after all ive been through it came down to a generic chat where he confirmed he was reusing our reports (which is fine in the sense they put her on the 2nd centile) he agreed she has working memory and auditory processing difficulties and they would impact on her but that's about it. after he spoke to me he saw my daughter where he showed her 2 lists of words to grade her reading, he didn't do a handwriting sample but agreed she had poor handwriting from the samples I had provided previously. I tried to press about her difficulties outside of dyslexia but most were dismissed as learnt behaviour from her twin. the class teacher had already expressed to him the amazing progress she has made and she spoke to him again after my daughter. he quizzed me about secondary but I sat on the fence and said no decision had been made as we were awaiting the outcome of these assessments.

 

I just hope now that it doesn't go against us in the sense that he has done no assessments - I think she will get a statement but will be generic and wishy washy and not worth the paper it will be written on. I also had an email today to say one of my indies has contacted the school and set up a date for assessment - she is a specialist SALt but can also dx ASD. she is a specialist in girls. she has caught me out slightly as no idea she would contact the school before speaking to me but there we are. the date means that hopefully the report will be ready in time for the statementing cut off point and we will finally know the answer to the ASD question once and for all so that is positive

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he didn't do that today - he had said previously to class teacher he was but today went back on that - she is average cognitively - 21st centile I think

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well the medical for the assessment consisted of a 4 minute phone call - this has to be the biggest farce of an assessment I have seen. they were ordered to look at all of her needs and the assessment so far has done none of that. the specialist salt coming in 10 days now and my daughter is also booked to see another specialist who looks at asd in high functioning girls so that will be interesting as well to see what happens - now we wait to see if the LA will issue a statement and how wishy washy it is - I know that I have at least one more tribunal ahead of me

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It is a joke isn't it. That is why I always bang on about Standardised Assessments. You cannot dispute them. So every professional involved should be asked verbally and in writing to carry out standardised assessments. From those scores you can identify what cognitive ability the child has, you can identify all the strengths and weaknesses a child has, and just as important, you can measure what progress they make year on year. Telephone conversations and observations are not going to identify each and every need.

 

Who was the telephone call with?

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I think the thing to take from this diagnosis is that your daughter is obviously capable to have crept under the radar for so long.

 

Now you have the diagnosis [and also specific learning difficulty], you should get the Statement and if you get that as tight as you can for it to be meeting all her needs, legally binding, and in the right placement, then she should go far.

 

Feel free to have a cry, and go through the emotions you will undoubtedly have now that you know that all your children are on the autistic spectrum. Then give yourself a big hug and congratulate yourself and your husband on having managed to get to the stage you are now at with all your children.

 

Try to take some time off to relax and have some time with your husband before the next stage.

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that's the plan now - she finishes school on Friday for the summer and I plan to take the summer off - if she is to get a statement we will get it towards the end of august so there is nothing I can do at the moment. I now need to get the full report which will take up to a month to come through so as far as the LA are concerned they have no idea she has been dx. when I get the report I will send it to them then. it was hard to listen to how hard she has covered it all up. I was also told she is unlikely to be able to access a mainstream secondary due to the dyslexia, the asd and also because she has significant sensory difficulties as well . I have now started to look at schools and have some to view in September so im finally getting on with that as well - September going to be a crazy month and I will have no name a mainstream school through the normal admission process in October and then wait and see what happens with the statement or if I get a NIL. both myself and dh are currently in denial about it but I think it will just take time for us to come to terms with it all. according to the specialist its blindingly obvious she is but the school were clueless and as she doesn't cause a fuss she has gone under the radar with them as well. the school are still saying unlikely she will get a statement as she is not more than 6 years behind. my battle now is the right placement - if I can get that right now then she will indeed go far but as we know with my LA whatever happens im on a one way ticket back to tribunal

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Don't listen to what the school say. SEN law does not say anywhere that a child has to be 6 years behind before they get any help. All professionals for just about every diagnoses you can get, will say that the earlier the need is identified and supported the better the prognosis. Letting a child fall further and further behind, leaving them to get frustrated and lose confidence and have self esteem issues - how is that in the best interests of the child? It is just about the LA saving money. The SEND Panel will not be impressed with that at all. That is your local authorities own criteria, not SEN law.

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