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Laddo

Western/white culture - a controversial thread

45 posts in this topic

Okay this thread is probably going to create a lot of controversy and debate but I have to say this.

 

Does anyone else think that Western/white culture (I say 'white' because Western culture is almost entirely controlled by white people) is the major cause of humanity's problems? Rampant capitalism that causes people to step on anyone they see as less than them, constant stress and no rest, gossiping about each other and turning us against each other - all very white ideologies. Other cultures still actually have a concept of community, but what do we have? Nothing. We live in huge, anonymous cities where hardly anyone knows each other. Friendships now revolve around work. This is not healthy! And yet we are expected just to deal with it, act as if it's a natural progression of humanity when in reality, it's the fault of various global corporations being too greedy. And who is in charge of these corporations? White people, or at the very least people of different races who have become indoctrinated with the white way of life.

 

What are your thoughts on this?

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I agree entirely.

If I felt better I'd be saying a lot more, but it'll have to wait, for my brain's telling me I must rest and I'll be in bed soon. Only staying up for the cats as they've not seen much of me today...

 

I took on far too much today, and now I'm having to pay for it. It seems I never learn :(

Edited by Mihaela

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Eat, drink, smoke something illegal, calm down.

Try if you can, when you think you can, talk to someone who will listen.

Whatever my faults, I listen. I have on more than one occasion, listened.

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Mihaela: Sorry to hear it. Try and take it easy tonight and tomorrow, yeah? :)

 

Waterboatman: The idea of this thread is to share ideas and debate, not a rant

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I don't think it is down to white people ... I think it is down to people. If you want to see

someone's true nature, give them power and riches and you'll see their true nature.

 

Every culture in the world to my knowledge has had at some point macabre and dangerous laws and rules, rituals or rights of passage.

 

It is human nature to seize more of something, whether that be material, knowledge, love or power. Whatever we see as an advantage ... we will want more, or want to retain what we already have, therein lies the seed of disagreement, when another cannot see why you want more or less, or why you aren't happy or sad. This then leads to envy, spite, greed, hate, murder ... war!

 

It is not down to one culture, I believe it is down to progress. There is more on offer in cities and the more someone has to lose, the more aggressively they will defend.

 

If we did not have cities but had few villages I would still expect the same nature to evolve, though it would be less in ferocity as there's less to defend.

 

Bullies would still be there to turn into managers then eventually leaders

 

Build a big city and a thriving infrastructure for a third world population and let them reap the benefits of it ... I believe that the same egotistical, selfish, downtrodden views would rear themselves within a few generations. They'd want to keep and defend what they have from others who seek it.

 

The same applies for social status, popularity inspires the same vengeance as claiming possessions inspire.

 

Place us all in a city where we're all of equal and exact status ... people would get bored, some would want a change ... others wouldn't want a change! Do we cast them out, do we make more rules ...

 

All cultures have rules that grow naturally.

 

You push me, I'll push you. You eat my orange, I'll eat yours or eat every orange you ever get from this day forward. You get your orange eaten by someone else and do nothing, you'll never have no more oranges, unless you fight or hide your orange. You'll then help another to do the same ... especially if there aren't many oranges.

 

It's natural.

 

We're all human and we all follow human nature. It's just that some 'humans' think that they have more to lose. The problems aren't with western culture or any culture in my opinion. They're always going to develop as more possessions and positions of power are within grasp.

 

Hate and love, sharing and greed, happiness and sadness, laughter and bitterness. We've all felt it in some form ... It's human nature, but so is curiosity and ignorance. All of those distinctions are opposites.

 

There's always another side to something.

 

To make distinctions is human nature. Though to truly understand any nature you have to look at them all as the same. No distinctions, otherwise you inadvertently fall into the trap you try to avoid.

 

I actively think positively. Many people would and have argued that I'm ignorant of the bad in the world ... I would argue that I'm more aware of the bad than they are.

 

I am more aware because I consider both sides ... always. Then I choose which side I should dwell on, which side will make me feel better.

 

Fill your mind with positive thoughts ... eventually they'll come naturally.

 

Fill your mind with negative thoughts ... eventually they'll come naturally.

 

We're all to blame! We're only human.

 

 

I normally try to avoid strong subject because I don't have the knowledge or experience to challenge or argue. I live in a world of fantasy, I watch animated films, read old books and live for the want of a better word, in a self-fashioned bubble. It is not so bad to live looking towards the good!

Please don't think that I'm trying to teach you or anyone else the ways of the world. I am woefully ill-equipped in that department, I merely strive to write fancy sentences. I am cursed with a love of written words. I don't know many ... but the ones that I do know will always be well written.

Or so I hope :)

Edited by UnusualPatronus

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I'd say especially those people who've been indoctrinated into the modern white Anglo-American way of life, in other words pawns to capitalism and its highly noxious values - selfishness, greed, ruthlessness, materialism, consumerism, wastefulness, absolutist morality and shallow short-term thinking. Capitalism arose from the Protestant work ethic which puts far too much value on economic activity designed to serve an elite and even equates this it with progress and righteousness! We have this corrupt systen to thank for the breaking up of our natural communities. I agree, Laddo - not healthy at all!

I don't think it is down to white people ... I think it is down to people. If you want to see someone's true nature, give them power and riches and you'll see their true nature.

 

Laddo didn't say that it was simply down to white people, but it's almost exclusively white males who created the grotesque, devouring monster that has the arrogance to call itself progress.

Every culture in the world to my knowledge has had at some point macabre and dangerous laws and rules, rituals or rights of passage.

 

The Greek philosophers, the message of the gospels, the Renaissance and Enlightenment have all had an enormous effect upon Western civilisation. We now have the information, and evidence of history, to know better than to persist in our many dangerous follies, but the 'system' itself (that ugly mindset controlled by the rich and powerful) rejects all the common-sense findings of centuries in favour of quick fixes and widespread suffering. The system seems to hold all the aces..

It is human nature to seize more of something, whether that be material, knowledge, love or power.

True, but it's a debased, regressive aspect of human nature. By now we should know better, but society lacks good role models. We can fly people to the moon, yet lack such basic common sense. Humans are intelligent, yet so often they either don't use that intelligence or intentionally use it for harmful purposes. Governments condemn 'crime' yet the system is largely responsible for that crime, while they themselves are the biggest criminals of all and have repeatedly let down the people due to their love of power, status and money. Anyone who supports capitalist ideology is morally bankrupt and is betraying humanity.

 

If we did not have cities but had few villages I would still expect the same nature to evolve, though it would be less in ferocity as there's less to defend.

True, but it would be easier to put the brakes on harmful trends. In communities where everyone know everyone else, there is far less crime, such as the Hebrides and rural communities generally. Even the microstate of San Marino with its 31,000 people has its prison. It has a maximum capacity of 12, and hasn't been used for years!

Bullies would still be there to turn into managers then eventually leaders

But only if their parents and schools allowed their harmful traits to flourish.

The same applies for social status, popularity inspires the same vengeance as claiming possessions inspire.

But only in societies who worship status and materialism. It need not be so. Why can't goodness, beauty and truth come first?

Place us all in a city where we're all of equal and exact status ... people would get bored, some would want a change ... others wouldn't want a change! Do we cast them out, do we make more rules ...

We should all want to change, but only in positive, life-affirming ways. I'm never bored, ever learning more, and striving to improve every day. If we lack the inspiration (or encouragement) to change we stagnate and our lives become purposeless.

All cultures have rules that grow naturally.

 

Natural justice is the only true law, for it derives from our consciences over millennia.

We're all human and we all follow human nature.

 

I don't! At least I don't follow that kind! It's also human nature to be selfless, compassionate and altruistic - all qualities of any civilised society. By definition, human nature must be natural. So how can it also be human nature to be the opposite? Even animals can show altruism. We humans have the intelligence and reasoning ability to know that selfishness, greed, etc. are harmful aspects of human nature and should not only be discouraged but condemned at any opportunity. The capitalist system actively encourages them.

Hate and love, sharing and greed, happiness and sadness, laughter and bitterness. We've all felt it in some form ... It's human nature, but so is curiosity and ignorance. All of those distinctions are opposites.

These opposites may or may not have moral dimensions. Happiness and sadness, etc. are part of the natural and universal human condition; they are states of mind. They can't be compared to sharing and greed, etc. which are of a very different order for they have a moral dimension and reflect personality types - virtues and vices, character strengths and weaknesses, right and wrong. Unlike animals, babies and psychopaths, humans develop consciences. We have an awareness of right and wrong, yet sometimes knowingly choose to do wrong. Capitalist ideology is rooted in these unethical human traits. It has no conscience.

To make distinctions is human nature. Though to truly understand any nature you have to look at them all as the same. No distinctions, otherwise you inadvertently fall into the trap you try to avoid.

I disagree for they are not the same. Ethical distinctions must be made when applicable.

I actively think positively. Many people would and have argued that I'm ignorant of the bad in the world ... I would argue that I'm more aware of the bad than they are.

 

Same here; I agree.

Fill your mind with positive thoughts ... eventually they'll come naturally.

Fill your mind with negative thoughts ... eventually they'll come naturally.


Yes!

We're all to blame!

 

No! Most of us are the helpless pawns and (sometimes willing) victims of a cruel and inhuman system, even though we may not all realise this. The blame lies where the power lies, unless we choose to go against our consciences, and even then the system often plays its part.

I live in a world of fantasy, I watch animated films, read old books and live for the want of a better world, in a self-fashioned bubble. It is not so bad to live looking towards the good!

Same here, very much! Folktales, children's fantasy stories, fairies, mermaids, unicorns, enchanted forests... I only learn the 'news' randomly and by chance. I'm so out of touch that I often don't know when elections are taking place until I see those silly political placards people stick in their gardens (banned in certain European countries). The last time I entered a polling station was as a child. I didn't know the name of the current Prime Minister until months after he got the job, and the names of any other current politicians mean nothing to me either. :)

Please don't think that I'm trying to teach you or anyone else the ways of the world. I am woefully ill-equipped in that department, I merely strive to write fancy sentences. I am cursed with a love of written words. I don't know many ... but the ones that I do know will always be well written.

Not at all, and that goes for me too... and, yes, I'm cursed with a love of written words too! You may have noticed... ;)

Edited by Mihaela

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I will reply to both UnusualPatronus's and Mihaela's posts later on when I've thought things through a bit more but after seeing a video of people fighting over slightly reduced products for Black Friday I have to say that Western culture is pretty damn sick. Look up 'Black Friday fights' on Youtube and you'll see what I mean. All those who took part in this absurd, shocking display of human depravity should be utterly ashamed of themselves. And society sees us as the 'disordered' ones! It's ludicrous!

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My choice of words on opening in the latter, poorly written, I apologise, I mean only to echo what you say.

 

I've obviously made a wrong distinction. My whole post was overall wrong. I've interpreted Laddo's question wrongly.

 

In trying to answer I've almost assessed how animals could evolve, how aliens could possibly evolve, how humans could possibly evolve again if time turned back.

 

We are already evolved!

 

I didn't take into account that we make conscious choices. That we have consciousness. That we are aware, far more aware than animals!

 

At the most basic level of human nature what I said might hold some ground. As we are now ... It doesn't.

 

I take it back

 

Language is what I forgot to include. Intelligent learning is what I forgot to include. Knowing about right and wrong and not having to discover it is what I forgot to include.

 

Scriptures, texts, speeches ... all the lessons of the past that teach the right and fair way to live is what I forgot to include.

 

England in its immediate past has known all of the lessons, but those in power have ignored them for personal gain ...

 

That is in no way a natural part of evolution, it is as Laddo describes ... It is a way to suppress those of us not in power, to keep us at bay, to control us.

 

I spend so much time looking for good, which is good, but I need to stop looking at it from the beginning. We already have the knowledge to make a perfect world, what we don't have is the leaders of corporations or government with the competence or sense of human nature to try to make that world.

 

This only serves to show how inexperienced I am in the ways of the world if I can fail to leave all of that out. I need to consider the question fully before answering, I see the error of my logic and in no way would I consider those in power to be led by human nature ... I can only look for good to a certain extent, there is no good in the corporations or government, there is only personal gain, that isn't human nature.

 

Wanting more is human nature ... if it also includes wanting more for others.

 

My thinking was from a restart of civilisation. As our culture stands now I have to agree ...

Those in power do not follow human nature ... they consciously avoid it.

 

It's evil and can't be denied.

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Does anyone else think that Western/white culture (I say 'white' because Western culture is almost entirely controlled by white people) is the major cause of humanity's problems?

After a bit of head scratching I concluded that what you are referring to is the Protestant influenced culture created in the 16th century which is the bedrock of modern day culture in the US and much of Europe, and during the 20th century spread out worldwide.

 

There have been many different cultures throughout history in Europe so it's unjustified to claim there is only one white or western culture.

 

The Protestant culture has spawned many other ideologies over the centuries including:

 

Liberalism

Socialism / Communism

Mass atheism

Multiculturalism

Zionism

Capitalism

Materialism

Americanism

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A very well-reasoned post, UnusualPatronus. I'm glad that my words weren't wasted.

 

An excellent analysis, Canopus - and all those 'isms' work against our natural humanity and the natural order and harmony of life.

 

At least that's when liberalism is interpreted as a political ideology rather than simply a natural and ethical belief in freedom and human rights. Free trade, free and fair elections and freedom to own property are often seen as features of liberalism. Free trade is not necessarily a good thing, especially when applied to multinational capitalism. Free and fair elections often amount to mere tokenism - giving us the impression that putting an 'x' in a box gives us real power over the elites that control our lives! Freedom to own property, without limiting that freedom - is nothing more than a recipe for obscene wealth and abject poverty. The only acceptable freedoms are those that don't deprive others of freedom.

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Liberalism is one of the sacrosanct cornerstones of the British political establishment. The highly controversial Prevent strategy is actually about upholding and enforcing liberalism by creating a police state rather than stopping violent terrorism from occuring. Notice how we didn't have anything like Prevent in the years when the IRA was blowing things up every week!

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Nope, they weren't wasted, I tried to consider everything you wrote :) I will keep checking this thread to learn of others views, though I think it right that I step out as it's already going beyond what I'm reasonably competent at answering on.

 

I shall use it to learn :)

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As a person opposed to the continuation of the state of Israel, there is much critical stuff I can say about Zionism in relation with Protestantism but unfortunately I am unable to publish it here because the mods will view it as antisemitism.

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Anti-Zionism is not antisemitism - many devoutly orthodox Jews are strongly opposed to Zionism. Besides, the Semitic ethnic group has always included Arabs, Akkadians, Maltese, Sabians, etc. It is not restricted to people of the Jewish faith, so the term antisemitism, popularised in 19th century Germany, is a misnomer.

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There are some good points here - it's always interesting to see others' viewpoints on such topics. Canopus, I was unaware that so many modern cultures today stemmed from Protestantism but thinking it through, I can see parallels between the religious movement and modern society. It is interesting that today's British and American societies are so heavily founded on a Christian religious movement considering Jesus reportedly denounced lust for money as sinful and was a proponent of sharing wealth - in other words, the complete opposite of modern capitalism.

 

Does anyone know much about the Icelandic revolution? It was woefully unreported (obviously to prevent other societies from doing the same) but from what I've heard the people of Iceland peacefully overthrew their government and rewrote their constitution.

 

In my opinion, a peaceful revolution would have to begin with the closure of all mainstream media outlets. They're all in the pocket of some political party or another and more and more media censorship is exposed every day. It's a form of mass brainwashing - people trust the media and therefore automatically believe most stories they read or watch on the news. It's actually quite worrying to me that people are so frequently told how to think and even more worrying that this actually works on such a grand scale. I wonder for how long the current systems will continue to operate? Will they end in peaceful revolution, multiple civil wars or will we all kill ourselves in the process? With the war on Islam that's being waged by most NATO countries, (anyone see the parallels with Nazi attitudes towards Jewish people?) I fear the latter option may be the most likely. In a kind of disgusted way, I'm almost looking forward to seeing how things will pan out.

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Canopus, I was unaware that so many modern cultures today stemmed from Protestantism but thinking it through, I can see parallels between the religious movement and modern society.

It's all there in the history books.

 

It is interesting that today's British and American societies are so heavily founded on a Christian religious movement considering Jesus reportedly denounced lust for money as sinful and was a proponent of sharing wealth - in other words, the complete opposite of modern capitalism.

John Calvin was the mastermind behind Protestant economics and the Protestant work ethic.

 

In my opinion, a peaceful revolution would have to begin with the closure of all mainstream media outlets.

I do not buy TV licences.

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Frustration. :wacko:

Eat, Drink, Sleep.

Best solutions to any problem.

Do not annoy others around you, the sanatorium used to scare me. It could come back!

We only live with the support or sufferance from others.

DO NOT FORGET THAT.

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Can you stop trying to derail the thread please? Like I said, the point of this thread is to debate. If you don't like it, you don't have to read it.

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I am not a doctor.

Yet. Your topic title is ####### :bounce: ######

For a start all white's are hybrids already. The populations move.

Its only the 'demented' who insist on genetical pure 'white' populations or cultures exist.

'England' has been repopulated several times. By Germanic tribes! and others.

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Firstly, do you have to be so rude in all your posts or what?

 

Secondly, read my first post properly. I define my meanings for using the term 'white' to describe the culture or collection of cultures I'm referring to.

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I define my meanings for using the term 'white' to describe the culture or collection of cultures I'm referring to.

I'm unsure if you are confused or not. Are you using white to mean the aforementioned Protestant culture, or are you using white as a catch all term for a variety of diverse European cultures that have existed over the centuries? Also take into account that the Protestant culture has spread beyond Europe / North America and European people. I'm interested in how it connects with Hinduism or influences culture in India.

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I'm referring to the Protestant culture you mentioned, Canopus. I have taken into account that it has spread beyond Europe - that's why I'm saying it's a cause of so many problems! The whole thing is founded on greed and elitism.

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I'm referring to the Protestant culture you mentioned, Canopus. I have taken into account that it has spread beyond Europe - that's why I'm saying it's a cause of so many problems! The whole thing is founded on greed and elitism.

You stated your support for liberalism over in another topic but liberalism - in all their different forms - are children of the Protestant culture and their impact on society is greatest in historically Protestant nations. The American definition of liberal is completely different from the British definitions of liberal, and the modern British liberalism is different from the 19th century classic liberalism. A similar situation is true for the British and American definitions of conservative although the similarities are greater than for liberals. The traditional British political yardstick is a continuous left to right spectrum but the Americans use two separate independent camps of liberal and conservative with no middle ground or third alternative. To complicate things even further, the American definition of liberal does not correspond to the British 'left' and the American definition of conservative does not correspond to the British 'right'. Sometimes Americans use liberal as a synonym for the Democrat party and conservative as a synonym for the Republican party.

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I meant liberalism in the sense of treating other human beings as equals and freedom for the people as opposed to the modern definition. It is hard to define such beliefs though when terms are constantly being hijacked for political means.

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The problems are not restricted to colour race or creed, there will be many examples of people from all nationalities that show hatred bigotry and discrimination, equally there will be love compassion and understanding shown again from people of all nations.

Those with the ambition drive and egos and selfishness to take from others are usually the ones that take the primary positions wherever you are in the world. Kind caring considerate people don't always seek recognition and are contented doing what they do in their own lives so don't get the recognition they deserve it's the more negative aspects of life that get the most attention.

I've read through the post and a lot of what I would have said has already been mentioned, a lot of interesting points of view.

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It's part and parcel of the human condition, where good and evil potentially reside in us all. However, the most powerful force in the world today is the influence of US capitalism largely driven by white Anglo-Saxons. Not necessarily Protestants, for a disproportionate number are Jews.

 

Capitalism relies upon the negative qualities of ruthlessness, greed, selfishness, etc. and so attracts those with narcissistic or psychopathic personality disorders like bees to honey. The NT world is run by such people, and that's why is such a total mess. They create a world of hypocrisy ruled by greed, and then we wonder why there are wars, starvation, poverty, cruelty. The personality traits found in unbridled capitalism, nationalism and religious fundamentalism are the cause of all the world's avoidable suffering.

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It's part and parcel of the human condition, where good and evil potentially reside in us all. However, the most powerful force in the world today is the influence of US capitalism largely driven by white Anglo-Saxons. Not necessarily Protestants, for a disproportionate number are Jews.

 

Capitalism relies upon the negative qualities of ruthlessness, greed, selfishness, etc. and so attracts those with narcissistic or psychopathic personality disorders like bees to honey. The NT world is run by such people, and that's why is such a total mess. They create a world of hypocrisy ruled by greed, and then we wonder why there are wars, starvation, poverty, cruelty. The personality traits found in unbridled capitalism, nationalism and religious fundamentalism are the cause of all the world's avoidable suffering.

 

That's all true its sad but a fact.

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for a disproportionate number are Jews.

 

You must have had courage to write this because a few years ago such a statement would have incurred the wrath of a particular moderator. There was also a Jewish member of this forum at one time and I suspect that his presence swayed the attitudes of the moderator team although he may not have always agreed with their approach towards the moderation of comments.

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You must have had courage to write this because a few years ago such a statement would have incurred the wrath of a particular moderator. There was also a Jewish member of this forum at one time and I suspect that his presence swayed the attitudes of the moderator team although he may not have always agreed with their approach towards the moderation of comments.

Mihaela is courageous as a lot of people here are in overcoming some particularly difficult circumstances, one thing I have come to know is that Mihaela makes a lot of effort to help wherever possible and nothing would be said to deliberately upset anyone.

A point of view is an opinion that's all we all have them and are all different and all except another's viewpoint that's what I love about this site the tolerance of opinions without anyone getting upset at least that's my experience so far.

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Thanks for the compliment LL, but I was only stating a fact. It's also a fact that Ashkenazi Jews have a higher average IQ (115) than non-Jews. Sephardim score 10 points lower, but are still 5 above the non-Jewish average. Over five times as many Ashkenazim are eligible for Mensa. The reasons are complex, but purity of the bloodline is one of them. None of this is racism.

Facts are stubborn things because they represent what is true. Too many people are afraid of truth because it can sometimes undermine their cherished myths. People have called me a gentle ikonoklast (I use k's in that very Greek word!) for truth matters more to me than offending sensibilities. No offence is ever intended. My own sensibilities are offended almost every time I go out, but I just have to put up with it.

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Thanks for the compliment LL, but I was only stating a fact. It's also a fact that Ashkenazi Jews have a higher average IQ (115) than non-Jews. Sephardim score 10 points lower, but are still 5 above the non-Jewish average. Over five times as many Ashkenazim are eligible for Mensa. The reasons are complex, but purity of the bloodline is one of them. None of this is racism.

Facts are stubborn things because they represent what is true. Too many people are afraid of truth because it can sometimes undermine their cherished myths. People have called me a gentle ikonoklast (I use k's in that very Greek word!) for truth matters more to me than offending sensibilities. No offence is ever intended. My own sensibilities are offended almost every time I go out, but I just have to put up with it.

 

That's a fair point though the complexity of the facts and statistics you understand are way beyond my comprehension I would never remember all the information.

Myth and traditions are something that's used when fact and logic doesn't give comfort in my opinion and of course sentiment which while I understand it's meaning it has little effect on me. Memory and memories of events are not the same as being sentimental yet some people attach a great deal of irrational feelings causing themselves a lot of distress. While things are not always completely clear myth that surrounds them never helps a final understanding.

Your right when you say things that are offensive are apart of our lives and others don't always care, I attempt not to let this emotion effect me I relate to the people they are and I am and I know who's traits I'm most happy with.

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Thanks for the compliment LL, but I was only stating a fact. It's also a fact that Ashkenazi Jews have a higher average IQ (115) than non-Jews. Sephardim score 10 points lower, but are still 5 above the non-Jewish average. Over five times as many Ashkenazim are eligible for Mensa. The reasons are complex, but purity of the bloodline is one of them. None of this is racism.

 

Is the term Ashkenazi used to describe a large collective group of people in a similar way that English or Italian are used or does it extend down to genetics? What is the genetic origin of the Ashkenazi Jews and why weren't certain social and psychological traits commonly associated with Ashkenazi Jews found in their ancestors living in Europe?

 

Genetic testing has revealed that Jews living in the Levant are genetically indistinguishable from Muslims and Christians living in the Levant, which means that originally there was no such thing as the Jewish race (as a genetic entity) only a Jewish tribe (as a social, cultural and linguistic entity).

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Is the term Ashkenazi used to describe a large collective group of people in a similar way that English or Italian are used or does it extend down to genetics? What is the genetic origin of the Ashkenazi Jews and why weren't certain social and psychological traits commonly associated with Ashkenazi Jews found in their ancestors living in Europe?

 

Genetic testing has revealed that Jews living in the Levant are genetically indistinguishable from Muslims and Christians living in the Levant, which means that originally there was no such thing as the Jewish race (as a genetic entity) only a Jewish tribe (as a social, cultural and linguistic entity).

 

Too complex for me

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Yes, it very complex! I'll answer your question later, Canopus - I'm having great trouble making complete posts at the moment.

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Yes, it very complex! I'll answer your question later, Canopus - I'm having great trouble making complete posts at the moment.

 

Will look forward to some more information Mihaela

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High achieving Jews is a phenomenon that only emerged after about 1800. Throughout most of history the Jews achieved very little when it comes to science, engineering, art, literature, architecture, and medicine compared to the achievements of the ‘gentile’ nations and societies over the centuries. The space of time since the Ashkenazi Jews first started to rise to intellectual prominence appears to be too short for it to be primarily the result of genetic traits so other factors must be at play. A question is whether the rise of intellectual prominence of the Ashkenazi Jews was tied in with the so called age of enlightenment. This question is further complicated because during the period from the late 18th century to the late 19th century, the western European nations were the most advanced and economically developed but only a small fraction of Ashkenazi Jews lived in these countries with the majority living in the underdeveloped and backwards central and eastern Europe that missed out on the industrial revolution and colonialism.

 

In the early Christian era it was difficult to sell Christianity simultaneously to Jews and Greeks. This was because the Jews were most impressed by miracles whereas the Greeks were only happy if they had a rational scientific explanation for something happening. Jews weren’t interested in rational scientific explanations and Greeks didn’t believe in miracles. From this situation it is clearly evident that the Greeks were the intellectual types and the Jews lived in a world of mysticism.

 

Another interesting fact is that many of the communist's 'greatest' minds were inside the heads of Ashkenazi Jews despite it being a concept that is completely incompatible with the Torah and traditional Jewish beliefs. Considering that communism is totally and utterly discredited today, then it raises the question whether the ideas and achievements of Jewish capitalists are also destined to be discredited in the future. A certain faction of Ashkenazi Jews appear to be in games for themselves and concepts like communism, and possibly Thatcherite style capitalism, are merely tools they use for as long as they require to further their cause and are then discarded when they are no longer of use, whilst the vast majority of ‘gentiles’ who support such ideologies are actually being taken for a ride without realising it.

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I agree with you completely, Canopus.

 

The whole area of Jewish origins and genetics is a minefield, a hopelessly tangled labyrinth - even though an enormous amount of research is going into it. It's complicated by Jewish marriage traditions and migration, and the fact that there are many different Jewish 'races' that all share the same very ancient origins. Much of the research is aimed at preventing various medical conditions - quite a number, and found largely or exclusively among Jews. Ashkenazim show skewed IQ results - e.g. they're better than average on verbal and numerical than on spatial abilities. The cause of their much higher average intelligence are still debated, and are not properly understood. Another racial group with high intelligence are the East Asians.

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I agree with you completely, Canopus.

 

The whole area of Jewish origins and genetics is a minefield, a hopelessly tangled labyrinth - even though an enormous amount of research is going into it. It's complicated by Jewish marriage traditions and migration, and the fact that there are many different Jewish 'races' that all share the same very ancient origins. Much of the research is aimed at preventing various medical conditions - quite a number, and found largely or exclusively among Jews. Ashkenazim show skewed IQ results - e.g. they're better than average on verbal and numerical than on spatial abilities. The cause of their much higher average intelligence are still debated, and are not properly understood. Another racial group with high intelligence are the East Asians.

 

The question is whether it's nature or nurture.

 

Israel is one step away from being an apartheid nation. Jews of Middle Eastern and north African origin are overwhelmingly employed in petty jobs like driving taxis, retail, and agriculture. Ashkenazi Jews take almost all the top jobs in government, the armed forces, finance, media, and scientific research. As for Ethiopian Jews, they are barely worth hiring to clean floors. If Israel was a Jewish nation comprised only of Jews from in and around the Middle East then it would be a very different place. There would probably also be very little conflict or tensions with the Palestinians and other neighbouring countries.

 

Local cultures are capable of determining intelligence and Ashkenazi Jews are unlikely to be an exception. For example, students in Britain of south Asian origin perform better in maths and science at secondary school than indigenous British students do and they usually tend to perform better than in arts and humanities subjects. Reasons are as follows:

 

1. They are culturally neutral subjects. Some subjects can only be properly comprehended by people who are 'fluent' in the popular culture of a particular nation.

 

2. It is possible to achieve high grades with a lower level of verbal fluency than with subjects like English or history. This is an important factor if English is not their first language.

 

3. British popular culture considers maths and science to be hard subjects and there is no sin or stigma if one is useless at them. This reduces the incentive for indigenous British students to excel in these subjects. In south Asian cultures high value is placed on excelling in maths and science and these subjects are valued for entry to professional careers.

 

4. There is a greater belief amongst south Asians that education is for the purpose of obtaining a professional career than amongst the indigenous British. South Asians struggle to make sense of the concept of a liberal education. A much smaller fraction of south Asians go to university but they overwhelmingly study subjects like medicine, law, engineering, financial subjects, or pharmacy for the purpose of a professional career. They say that figures for indigenous British people are bloated by soft subjects, arts, and humanities with most students not knowing what they want to do when they graduate.

 

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If it's nature rather than nurture then most of the ideals about equality developed since the late 19th century will be discredited if a person's, or a tribe's general, strengths weaknesses virtues and vices are literally hard wired into their genetic code.

 

This is a very contentious statement but IF the phenomena of underperformance of black people academically and their propensity of them to engage in street crime in Britain is largely down to genetic traits then it will completely overturn prevailing theories supported by establishment political parties and academia since the 1960s that they are the result of poverty, ingrained racism, and lack of positive role models. It will also discretic the Scarman report of 1981 following the riots in Brixton.

 

Something I have noticed over the years is an almost complete absence of black people with AS and HFA. It is possible that AS and HFA does not natively exist in certain races - possibly Native Americans and Pacific Island races as well as sub-Saharan Africans.

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