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steverogers

Why do so many Aspies 'look Autistic'?

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This is a question which I have asked all of my support staff, but I haven't really been able to get a satisfactory answer for it.

 

Namely why do so many of us (namely those who are on the more 'higher functioning' end of the spectrum, and thus are more aware of ourselves) 'look autistic'?

 

When I say this, yes I am aware that ASD is not a physical condition, but raher a mental one, so thus (to cut a long story short) it does not effect ones outward appearance in itself.

 

Rather I would like to know why so many Aspies and Auties look scruffy, are overweight, don't brush or comb their hair, wear ill fitting or dirty clothes, don't shave the appropriate areas of the body and (even when they are no longer teenagers) have spots or boils.

 

I know that sometimes people aren't aware of what they look like, have little interest in looking like an NT, have sensory issues regarding things like razors or even are happy with the way they look regardless of how they may appear.

 

But let me share with you all a little story...

 

Some years ago I knew a girl (by the name of Becky) with AS, (who should now be in her early thirties) who was into all the kind of things a typical girl in he teenage years/early twenties would be into, but due to her AS, she was into them a lot more intensely (eg she would write her own fanfiction based on characters in music videos) as she had an obsession with Britney Spears (I think she even had a lesbian crush on her).

 

However partly due to her being cooped up in, firstly a special school and then later a care home, she had become institutionalized.

 

Thus she was sorely lacking in various skills.

 

One day I asked her why she did not put more effort into her appearance (I did not use those words, rather I simply pointed out all the things I saw her carers do that she didn't).

 

Her answer, as she knew I wasn't having a go at her, was "I never thought of it."

 

So why don't more people (eg parents and care staff) point this out and tell them what to do bout it?

Edited by trekster

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It's different for everyone. Some don't and haven't been taught personal hygiene, or there physically unable to manage like me bath causes pain and washing hair hurts bending over. Not everyone is the same

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It's different for everyone. Some don't and haven't been taught personal hygiene, or there physically unable to manage like me bath causes pain and washing hair hurts bending over. Not everyone is the same

Thank you for your reply, as it answered my question.

 

I must admit I never really thought of people finding it physically painful or are unable to maintain their appearance as most of those with ASD that I have known don't have those kind of issues.

 

Just to extend it a little what do you all think of those who are very stubborn in so much they refuse to 'change', if you pardon the expression.. .

 

Thank you

Edited by trekster

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Also do you think that family and staff members should bluntly point out an Aspie's or Autie's 'shortcomings' and tell them what to do in order to change?

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Thank you for your reply, as it answered my question.

 

I must admit I never really thought of people finding it physically painful or are unable to maintain their appearance as most of those with ASD that I have known don't have those kind of issues.

 

Just to extend it a little what do you all think of those who are 'ugly' and very stubborn in so much they refuse to 'change', if you pardon the expression.. .

 

Thank you

Don't think it's nice to see people that way, if you say it it will upset one and then they going to feel ugly and have an ED issue. So I'm not judgemental

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verbeia   

While I know what you mean about some individuals with ASD having little interest in fashion, choosing comfort ahead of tight, formal clothing, or in some cases forgoing personal hygiene because of issues with their executive functioning, I find 'ugly' such a loaded term.

 

Not everyone, including many NT people, believe in having all their bodily hair removed. That's a very recent trend, led by Hollywood stars and pop stars who are often seen publicly wearing revealing clothing. Not everyone wants to have dyed and highly styled hair or full make up, not everyone believes you have to be on a permanent weight loss diet, or working on a six pack in the gym, in order to be presentable. The Twitter celebrity culture has promoted this idea of it being 'normal' to be glamorous.

 

For those having employment problems, poverty can have an impact on health, and suffering secondary depression or anxiety can also cause health problems affecting your appearance.

 

I do object when people say I should 'get my teeth sorted out', simply because I have a slight gap, or should wear designer dresses rather than M&S.

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While I know what you mean about some individuals with ASD having little interest in fashion, choosing comfort ahead of tight, formal clothing, or in some cases forgoing personal hygiene because of issues with their executive functioning, I find 'ugly' such a loaded term.

 

Not everyone, including many NT people, believe in having all their bodily hair removed. That's a very recent trend, led by Hollywood stars and pop stars who are often seen publicly wearing revealing clothing. Not everyone wants to have dyed and highly styled hair or full make up, not everyone believes you have to be on a permanent weight loss diet, or working on a six pack in the gym, in order to be presentable. The Twitter celebrity culture has promoted this idea of it being 'normal' to be glamorous.

 

For those having employment problems, poverty can have an impact on health, and suffering secondary depression or anxiety can also cause health problems affecting your appearance.

 

I do object when people say I should 'get my teeth sorted out', simply because I have a slight gap, or should wear designer dresses rather than M&S.

With regard to the the recent trend for stars to look less 'flashy' and 'cheesy' I myself have seen this, and I myself have seen people on the street looking like them.

 

However I would like to point out that Aspies and Auties have done this long before NT's (or stars) did, and I would like to know the reason why...

Edited by trekster

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One thing I would particularly like to know is why so many people (myself included) are overweight?

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verbeia   

 

With regard to the the recent trend for stars to look less 'flashy' and 'cheesy' I myself have seen this, and I myself have seen people on the street looking like them.

 

However I would like to point out that Aspies and Auties have done this long before NT's (or stars) did, and I would like to know the reason why...

 

I guess the point I was making was that it was actually a social norm at one time to look clean and presentable rather than 'perfect'. The focus has shifted very recently towards an ideal of looking airbrushed, and anyone, ASD or otherwise, who doesn't do that, may be labelled as ugly or not making enough effort. I don't mean necessarily the high-glamour all-over tan, false eyelashes and full make-up, but there is a greater expectation to tick a lot more boxes while still looking 'natural' - slim, straight teeth, completely smooth and clear skin, no bodily hair (in the case of women), no visible blemishes, smooth, freshly-styled looking, straightened hair, without a hair out of place. If you go back two or three decades, and look at photographs of the majority of everyday folk, many people of today would label them ugly or not taking enough care of their appearance.

 

I accept some people with ASD may have problems with executive functioning that mean they neglect actual hygiene and cleanliness, and some will chose clothes for physical comfort rather than flattering, fashionable or well co-ordinated clothing.

 

But is it the case that many more people with ASD are living up to older-fashioned basic standards of what constitutes a presentable appearance, and don't see why they should go to the much bigger efforts more widely expected today? The example I gave you of people telling me I should get cosmetic dental surgery, is such a case, I think. I don't have that much money, and my teeth are natural and not 'bad' as far as I'm concerned, I just have a slight gap at the front. But 'getting work done' is such a catchphrase these days. Older members of my family can't believe people would think cosmetic treatment is necessary, younger ones think it looks hideous.

 

As for being overweight, that can very often be linked to anxiety or depression, lack of exercise (especially if you spend most of your time in the house), and poor eating habits due to poor executive function or organising skills.

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Not every autie is overweight.

 

And I have fashion sense too but when in so much pain it's hard to even manage to do it like right now I'm having hard time with my legs with fibro j have to still keep moving so I try and walk but I'm limping so it's too painful at times to be perfect

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I wear glasses all the time because of my astigmatism and long sight but because of my Irlen syndrome which has significantly made an improvement because of that I gone from 2 red, grey and a brown to now only needing orange and grey yay. I have to wear rest of my life though

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Mihaela   

A very interesting thread, and there's so much I could say. For now, I'll just speak of myself. I've never been interested in fashion or my appearance, simply because my mind was on 'higher things' - my special interests. For many years my mother chose my clothes, and I was always being remined to brush my hair. Ever since childhood I've had a phobia of dentists (and operations), and I've also had teeth knocked out when passing out with hypoglycaemia. I never visit hairdressers, for I see it as unnecessary luxury/vanity, and besides, absolutely detest the smell of those places - even when it wafts into the street! I've always dressed inconspicuously and modestly, and choose clothes for comfort rather than fashion. My logical mind simply can't se any point in following fashion, and anyway it's a total waste of money. Like many Aspies I tend to be androgynous, although I do often wear skirts and like a little jewellery - but I rarely use make-up. I remain slim regardless of what I eat, and my weight has remained at around 9.5 stone for decades ever since my teens.

 

I must admit that I'm attracted to unusual people, most of whom turn out to be on the spectrum - or at least I sense that they are. We seem to gravitate towards one another. Naturalness is important to my view of physical beauty, and I find myself attracted to both stereotypically beautiful faces and atypical faces too, which wouldn't generally be seen as beautiful. The clothes they wear and their hair styles mean little to me. Most of all, though, it's beautiful personalities that draw me.

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A very interesting thread, and there's so much I could say. For now, I'll just speak of myself. I've never been interested in fashion or my appearance, simply because my mind was on 'higher things' - my special interests.

 

 

I spoke to a friend quite recently about this subject and he said that for us 'interests come first'.

However what is the difference between that and 'living' by your diagnoses?

After all NT people tend to just get on with it as they may very well have their own hobbies which do not include fashion or maintaining one's home/appearance/job and so on...

However many (but far from all) aspies and auties live in somewhat more 'institutionalized' settings eg with parents, group homes or supported living where many daily tasks are done for them.

Thus they do not live a so called 'normal' life and thus can devote more time to their hobbies!

Just a thought which I felt I'd put out there.

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Mihaela   

...for us 'interests come first'.

Yes they do. It's our way of coping with all the sensory sensitivities, chaos and confusion of the insane NT world!

After all NT people tend to just get on with it as they may very well have their own hobbies which do not include fashion or maintaining one's home/appearance/job and so on...

True, but their hobbies aren't as important for their mental health. If we were deprived of our special interests we'd find it very difficult to manage day-to-day life. Or rather, even more difficult! We also tend to pursue our hobbies a lot more intensely than NT people. We can get carried away and lose sense of time. We allow nothing to get in the way.

However many (but far from all) aspies and auties live in somewhat more 'institutionalized' settings eg with parents, group homes or supported living where many daily tasks are done for them.

We devote more time to them because we need to. Our need to escape from the NT world, is something that NT people will never understand because they are part of that world, and accept it as normal and logical; I don't, and can't. I see it as hypocritical, deceitful, noisy, ugly, chaotic, selfish, greedy, violent, etc.

Although I spent much of my time living away from my parents, every few weeks I stayed with them. This went on until they died, and now I realise that I simply can't manage on my own, so I've had to seek support - which itself was very difficult and stressful. The appalling way that I've been treated by 'officialdom' - who should know better - has added to my difficulties. It's as if they're intentionally making me suffer for being born with a particular genetic difference. That's not my idea of justice.

Thus they do not live a so called 'normal' life and thus can devote more time to their hobbies!

Exactly, so-called normal! Who are they to define normality? There's a great deal about their world that I feel is not normal at all. It may well be the norm in that world, but it's not normal in a moral sense, such as rampant consumerism, mass media manipulation, mass 'education', militarism, factory farming, obsession with money, etc. None of this 'normality' promotes our well-being.

Edited by Mihaela

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I wear comfy fashionable clothes some days it's basic dressings, leggings, hoodies , others be trousers and basic tops and then some days is tye dye clothes I go by how feel on the day or what. I dress up on special occasions

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Just for the record, I myself wear jeans (or sometimes tracksuit bottoms, although at the moment I have none that fit thanks to them shrinking in the dryer) T-Shirts and trainers or Tuxedos and smart shoes (on special occasions) when I go out.

 

When I stay in I wear pretty much the same, although if I don't have company I'll wear my PY's around my flat.

 

I also shave every other day, have a bath every night and wash my hair most nights and go to the gym three times a week to work out (mostly to lose weight).

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Oh yes and I also sometimes wear glasses, but I don't always need to wear them.

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Livelife   

I dont think I look particularly Autistic but then when I look in the mirror I just see the same reflection I dont see anything odd or special in my looks. I dont know if looks do have any reflection because some people with Autism look no different to me than somebody who does not have the diagnosis. Maybe thats just me maybe I cant tell the difference myself as I do have trouble with recognizing people sometimes.

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For me at least, I know about personal hygiene I just don't spend time thinking about the last time I showered or changed. I like to dress comfortable and if NTs think that's scruffy who cares. Id say they waste their life in the mirror, who cares about what they care too much about if they think the things we obsess over are 'faults'. I had never ever thought about 'lookimg autistic' before and its an interesting notion, however personally I just think my brain is far more happy being preoccupied with other things. When im fixing things my mind had been doing it for ages already so when I touch the puzzle I just fix it. If my brain had been at all concerned about what I looked like, the magic wouldn't happen! #hyperismsrock

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Abagley   

I am annoyed about the comment that Autistic people look like they have Autism. That has is offensive and very unkind. Whoever said that has said that. I have Aspergers Syndrome. I look after my self and I am wash always have clean clothes.

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trekster   

We often have difficulties with our short term memories so lack the skills which keep us maintaining our appearance. Also maintaining our appearance takes concentration and effort and energy we don't have to spare especially if we have secondary mh problems.

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trekster   

Also do you think that family and staff members should bluntly point out an Aspie's or Autie's 'shortcomings' and tell them what to do in order to change?

No ridiculing those unable to maintain their appearance is cruel. You have to find out why they're not doing something and eliminate that reason so they can do the desired action or behaviour.

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trekster   

One thing I would particularly like to know is why so many people (myself included) are overweight?

You eat too much and avoid exercising. You are addicted to gluten and dairy ladden foods. You are self harming with food to punish yourself.

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trekster   

I spoke to a friend quite recently about this subject and he said that for us 'interests come first'.

However what is the difference between that and 'living' by your diagnoses?

After all NT people tend to just get on with it as they may very well have their own hobbies which do not include fashion or maintaining one's home/appearance/job and so on...

However many (but far from all) aspies and auties live in somewhat more 'institutionalized' settings eg with parents, group homes or supported living where many daily tasks are done for them.

Thus they do not live a so called 'normal' life and thus can devote more time to their hobbies!

Just a thought which I felt I'd put out there.

Where I'd your evidence that many of us live with parents in the wrong sort of setting? Who defines whats a normal life? Provided we aren't hurting anyone else in our lives no one has a right to define what is or isn't normal by our lives.

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trekster   

People who don't look after their appearance look depressed and for many of us we have secondary depression.

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Right, erm just a moment while I write this reply as I can see that my OP has made some people upset...

 

Firstly I would like to point out that while I may not seem to be very accepting of people who do not look 'normal' (if you pardon my use of the term) I would like to add that I myself do not look 100% NT myself.

 

This is because in the past year I have started to greesy skin, thus I not have a lot of spots.

 

Also as trekster has pointed out, yes I'll admit it I do like to eat quite a bit of the fattening foods and while I haven't spent much time in the gym over the last four or five months I have long since gotten (ever since childhood) into the habit of taking long walks in the park or into town.

 

Yes, as it happens I will sometimes eat a small bag of fries and a medium sized bottle (or can) of Coke I am wiling to admit to that.

 

However I only spend about 2 or 3 pounds max on this, the rest goes on items such as my weekly payments for food, tolietres and cleaning products.

 

What's left of that always go towards books (hard copies and/or kindle) collectable action figures (eg Transformers Masterpieces, Hot Toys and various satues-mainly I must confess of anime and manga girls) DVDs and Blu Rays relating to my intersts.

 

About two or three times a year I will go for a BIG clothes shop, where I will get lots of clothes, underwear and shoes.

 

While I do not closely follow fashion, prefering to wear clothing that is conforable and practial, I will, as it happens, buy items that I think 'look good' and yes I do own a number of item which are of the big brands here and there.

 

This is more to the point of what I was trying to drive at, where I wasn't trying to be judgemental towards people who have health problems or who are in a long term state of depression (both of which I have been though in the past and may indeed go though again in the future) or indeed are intersted only in 'higher things' which I tend to focus on a lot as do most people on the spectrum which I have met over the years.

 

For example, in my flat all of my toys, books, BluRays, DVDs and computer equipment (dito for my other electronic things, such as my TV, BluRay player and kitchen things) take pride of place on my shelves, neatly, in order and (for the most part) looking (almost) brand new.

 

My clothes on the other hand are in my cupboards and closerts.

 

Granted they are not all in size or colour order, or even in whatever type or garment order, but as far as I see things, if they are clean, intact and not on the floor I'm fine with them being in that kind of storeage arragement.

 

After all if you get a bit of mud splashed onto your jacket, all you have to do is toss it in the washing matchine, hang it out to dry, and then it will fine.

 

You can't very much do that with a book or DVD, and if it is no longer avaible, then you are sunk!

 

However on the other hand, it is my view that that us Aspies and Auties perfer to be told what we need to know point blank, not in a rude way, or in a way that could be seen as abusive or like bullying, just a simple statement of whatever is 'wrong' in any given sitution (it does not always have to be about appearance) and what they need to do in order to 'fix' it.

 

eg A service user (or resident) comes downstairs from his/her flat/bedroom, said person is dirty and smells a bit 'off'.

A Support Worker/Carer point black, in a calm, professional tone speeks words to the effect of..

"Simon, you smell, you are dirty, you need a bath and need to put on some clean clothes, go upstairs to your room/flat, have a bath, put on some clean clothes and put the dirty ones in the washing matchine."

 

(I will add that the above quote is NOT the exact wording that I think should be used in such a sitution in real life, I only used as an example)

 

Please explain to me how this could be seen as bullying or mocking are person for being different, if it were bullying then it would have words to he effect of...

 

"EWW Simon, you smell! You are dirty! I hate you!"

 

My second quote, is the kind of thing a billy would say.

 

The first one however, merely states a problem, followed by how it could be resolved.

 

As Nick Fury, said in the movie version of the 'Winter Soilder' storyline (from Captain America) " SHIELD deals with the world how it is, not how we'd like it to be."

 

Even though I am a BIG (and long term, well, well before the new movies, or in fact well before the Burbaker run) fan of Cap, and I often see myself as a kind of British Steve Rogers, in this case I can see quite a lot of Steve Rogers in many of the staff that I have worked with over the years.

 

While to many (if not most) of them will simply see their work as 'just a job' (don't get me wrong I have had many, many wonderful staff work with me over the years and indeed most of them have said that I am a lot easyer for them to work with than some of the other service users) and will quickly 'jump ship' whenever a 'better deal' comes their way, I have found that they seem to be sort of...naive regarding the public's views reguarding Autism and other mental health disorders. They often seem to think that because they are OK with our little 'qurks' or 'differences' and even quite like us in a way. (edited to remove derogatory terms by moderator)

 

You may think that the soltion to this issue would be for us to date those who are in the same boat as ourseleves, (edited to remove derogatory terms by moderator)

 

Think about it.....

 

Yes I for one have dated a number of girls who are on the spectrum but I know for a fact what would happen if I right out informed them that they did not meet my 'standards' of beauty and good manners....

 

think about it...

 

Lastly I would like to say that I am very, very sorry if my tone in my past posts upset anyone as it wasn't my intention to do so.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

Edited by trekster

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trekster   

My only issue with the way you mentioned about letting someone know their personal hygiene is less than adequate by NT standards is that a long winded list of instructions is likely to be forgotten by someone on the spectrum.

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Just got back from a short holiday in Scotland, had been meaning to say this before, but was unable to do so until now.

 

Firstly, regarding overloading an Autie or Aspie with information is a factor that I am aware of.

 

For example I myself can get a little stressed out if I have a lot of different apointments to make which involve a lot of traveling on my part.back and fourth the city on the bus. I'm fine if the places that I need to go to are close together (eg shops in the city centre) but if I have to get a lot of buses all the way up and down Liverpool and/or various outskirts, then I choose to pick the more important one(s) (eg going to the doctor's for a check up or if I am ill) over a less important one (eg going to the pictures to see a film).

 

As has been said before, myself included, 'for us interests come first' so I can understand how this may work regarding taking care of ones outward apperence.

 

However there is this thread which I found some tome ago on Wrong Planet, I don't normally go on there very much anymore (for reasons of my own, chiefly the negitivity from various theads and post) but I thought that some of you out there might like to see it.

 

You'll find the link here.

 

https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=290963

 

There is also the issue of inderviduals being taken advantage of by others with a lower moral character, however one of the many, many downsizes to 'looking autistic' can include being taken advantage of by those who know what they are looking for in a victim.Thus one could say that it may be better if we all tried to 'pass' or blend in.

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trekster   

How do you know whether we are trying to 'pass' or 'blend in' though? Any effort we may be able to make would cause secondary mental health problems which would be hard to hide. Trying harder to blend in wont be the answer to avoid being taken advantage of. Yes folk affected by autism can be socially naive and that upsets me the most that there isnt an effective strategy to counteract this (resulting in bullying, abuse and many secondary mental health problems) because every situation is different. All i can suggest is that we make a thread "is this a scam" or "scam alert" and find ways to help each other rather than suggesting we 'just try harder'.

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After reading all of your replies, I now feel that I must swollow my pride and say....

 

I stand corrected.

 

Nuff said

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Just to expand on this matter, the reason why I said what I said was that I always thought that it was a part of what I call 'Autistic Culture'.

 

As I have lived and mixed with quite a few Aspies and Auties over the years I came to the conclusion that many of the traits that a lot of people out there exist because of our/their mixing with others who have Autism and in order to 'mix in' they/we chose to (without really realising it) copy their/our peers, as indeed any other group of people who are mixed together be it by choise or by cercomstances would do.

 

For example, when I first went to Special Ed (a long story) I found that many of the kids there enjoyed, of all things, Sonic the Hedgehog games, comics and cartoons.

 

Granted this was the 90s, so it was (at the time) a common thing for children of that age and era to be into, before the discovered, how shall I put it, 'other' and more 'adult' things. But after I started surfing the net I found that it was very common for Sonic fans to have some kind of Autism or learning difficulty.

 

This I feel would make the subject of an even wider debate, which I would like to share with you my veiws and observations regarding it.

 

I also felt, chiefly by by my own expernce of being told by the staff at my old school that the reason why (to put it bluntly) the more 'worse off' (for want of a better term) pupils behaved in the ways that they did was due to the fact that (again to put it bluntly) they 'did not know any better'.

 

Cuppled with the fact that I have over the years read a large number of books about Autism (mostly ones written by and for health care professionalsand parents, not always the best place to get info, but still...) and had seen a lot of documentaries regarding the subject, from what I had seen I was under the impression that many people on the spectrum simply (for want of a better term) 'did not know any better' because nobody told them otherwise.

 

I personlly am a very tolerant person, as my 'rule of the thumb' regarding other people is as follows...

 

'If it isn't harming or offending me and/or my loved ones/friends then it is OK by me'

 

However, while I take back what I said regading the idea that we should all try to 'fit in' I do still feel that there should be more done to 'explain how the world works' and 'what is expected of an adult in this life'.

 

Granted I personally don't agree with a lot of things that happen in the world, this also happens to include a great many things which are considered 'normal' or 'life' but I feel that a lot of our kind are at this very moment being bullied by their peers and want very badly to 'crack the code' of social 'norms' but are unable to do so as no one is giving them the infomation they want or are not being told said infomation in ways which they can accept or understand.

 

However if someone were to be given this infomation, understood it accept it, but then (fully aware of what may happen as a result) chooses to do it 'my way' (as the old song says) then (provided that is not harming anyone else) that is fine by me.

 

In fact for me I personally have a lot of respect for people who do this, such as the case of one woman who lives life as though she lived in the 1950s because she did not like the way the world is going today.

 

I respect her for this a great deal, not just because I happen to enjoy and lot of old media and respect the many of the values of those eras, but also because I feel that she has done a far, far more sensable thing to do, in that she outright went and did something about her problems she had with living in the 21st Century rather than the 1950s, instend of just sitting around and moping in a pub, or on FaceBook moaning about the fact that the 'good old days' (relaitively speaking) were gone like I find a lot of people doing both IRL and on the net.

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I did have questionable personal hygine when younger, even now I don't always brush my teeth but gone the opposite way with cleanliness i.e shower every day and can't function without it.

 

I do wear clean or cleanish clothes in the sense I can wear something for days as long as it doesn't smell but if I can I put it on washing line so if I don't go out for days it will be airing for days, if I do something intense like go to gym I don't use that t shirt again till its washed.

 

In terms of fashion I did change in my twenties till a family death put me back to old ways, I was scruffy but neat when younger and now if you get what I mean.

 

If not I mean I would wear like a shirt and trousers but the shirt was badly ironed and may be tucked in badly and maybe even buttoned up wrong, I would change the buttons if I noticed but things like tucking shirt in I would forget.

 

And when I wash my clothes a quick wash can't be enough, it needs to be a long wash and handwashing is a no no unless I am desperate and even then I try and avoid doing it.

 

Anyway from your own posts it reminds me of what people think about autistic people, you come across as I assume(or hope its an assumption) intolerant or at very least not understanding other viewpoints in the sense you have a "right and wrong" mentality to things and that it seems even more so that you are thinking (Again not in a intentional way) that theres a fault with the individual for not changing their ways even if you think the act they are doing is neither right nor wrong.

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AS I have said before, as it was some time ago when I first started this thread, I now stand corrected.

 

What you said in your repily hits the nail right on the head regarding my not undrstanding other people's views, which indeed you are correct that I have a (to use your words) a 'right and wrong' mentailty to things that people do or say.

 

My term that I often use is 'behavor is king' meaning that as long as someone engages in the 'right' behavor(s) when they are arroud me then I consider them to be whatever they are at face value.

 

This does not mean that I have an issue uderstanding, say the motives of a fictional character, or indeed irony in works of fiction, as it happens there is a lot of ironic humour and satire in a great many of the fictional works which I enjoy (eg 'Tintin' and the writings of 'Mark Twain') which-yes- I happen to 'get'.

 

However in real life, I stuggle with that kid of thing, granted I have picked up a LOT of things along the way in this life and have been thought socal skills by my support staff and by my family. Plus I have read a lot of books about the workings of the human mind and quite a bit about Autsim, in order to better understand myself.

 

Regardless of this I do still slip up from time to time.

 

When I first put up the OP I was under the impression that as Autism is a mental condiction (ie to do with the brain) and not a pyisical condiction (ie to do with the body) then I was baffled as to why I so many people with Autism look the way we do.

 

What I meant was that if you see a man who (for whatever reason) who has lost his legs (or was born without any) you can see that he has no legs and may or may not be using a wheelchair. However if it is someone with Autism he will not, let's say, happen to have been born wirh blue skin, what you can tell however is the way that they behave, and in some cases how they look.

 

For many years I acepted, without really thinking about it that people who had Autism, to put it bluntly, were 'just like that' and that it was pointless to tell them to act or look otherwise.

 

However then there came a female resident to the group home that I happened to be living in at the time, who had AS and all that, but who took care of her appearace and who had even (to use my term that I used at the time) 'lived a life' in that she, had spent her entire school years in mainstream school, was not a virgin, who had lived on her own outside of her family or a care company and who had held down a number of jobs in her time cheifly due to the simple fact that she had ot been diginosed until adulthood.

 

She did however have large number of emotional issues, plus she had a few 'quirks' here and there and (partly as a result) I did grow quite fond or her at the time but that is another story for another time...

 

This competly blew my mind at the time, because here there was right in front of me was an Aspie who did pretty much everything that a NT would do regarding her apprence and (for the most part) her social interactions.

 

By the time she, and a little later myself, left the group home we were in I became imspired by her to 'live a life' as much as I could and as safely as possible.

 

Over time I also began to notice that many of the men and women who I interacted (who had Autism that is) started (for me) 'look Autistic' and I began to question the views and asumpsions that I held ever since late childhood regarding those in the comunity, so while I had (and in some cases still have) quirks here and there I fell back on my view hat 'behaivor is king' as after all looking after yourself involves 'behavors' (eg brushing your teeth or combing your hair) which result in your looking nice.

 

As it happens this thread has answared my questions and brought my attention a great number of issues which can 'get in the way' of looking like an NT.

 

Thank you for reading

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trekster   

Steverogers i commend you for sticking with this thread, at the time you didn't realize this was a sensitive subject for folk. Something i learnt a few years ago is that self neglect is a form of self harm. i am pleased you have the support you need regarding how to look after yourself. i can understand you wishing to pass that information onto others.

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