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Suze

Absences, epilepsy........??

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Hi guys had a meeting at school today and something cropped up.It had been noted by two seperate members of staff that my ds will one minute be engaged in work and the next will lose concentration and appear to be in a daze.These absences can last up to a minute and several times a day.When he comes back he needs reminding what it was he was doing, and he appears a little confused.This was also observed in a social context and not just the classroom.I wondered wether sensory overload may be a factor, but was told he does it in quiet situations aswell.There was an autism advisor at the meeting who has lots of experience of ASD and she said how she had seen similar things happen with children she worked with, some had brain scans but nothing conclusive was found.Epilepsy was raised aswell...........the school will continue to monitor things although those present at the meeting did,nt seem too alarmed.Just wondered if anyone had experience of this , it was mentioned as being more common around puberty , my son is 10. He does appear switched off at home on occassion and you have to be in his vision to engage him...then he comes back round.

Edited by Suze

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Hi Suze,

 

I work with young people with severe epilepsy and related special needs.

 

What you describe could be an absence seizure, so to put your mind at rest I would see your GP.

 

My son had slightly more dramatic 'episodes' when he was much younger, but exhaustive tests showed no epileptic activity, and the final conclusion was that they were a form of severe panic attack. He hasn't had one for about 2 years now, and before that they had become much more infrequent.

 

HTH, and I do understand how worrying this sort of thing can be >:D<<'> >:D<<'>

 

Bid >:D<<'>

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It could be Petit Mals which is a form of epilepsy. When you child is having these absences can you get through to him?? My daughter has a dx of epilepsy and has had Petit Mals she will gaze into thin air and you cannot get through to her they last only a few minutes if that and they are unaware of what has taken place or what has been said.

 

If you would like to know anymore pm me.

 

NIkrix

Edited by nikrix

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Suze,

 

Luke does the same thing. He has had MRI scans and EEG's and another test where he had to blow constantly on a piece of paper to keep it afloat. Nothing came from the tests. He often just blanks out and goes through phases of having fainting fits. Because nothing came up on the tests it was put down to 'just one of those thing' :huh:

 

Apparently there is a form of epilepsy where there is no obvious seizure, the person just appears to go in to a trance and without close observation it can easily be missed. This is what the paed thought Luke had but obviously he hasn't.

 

Hope you can get to the bottom of it and hope it's just 'one of those things'.

 

Lauren

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Hi again Just found this, may be of some help

 

Petite Mal Seizures

Petite mal seizures, also known as absence attacks, or primary generalized seizures, occur almost exclusively in children. Typically they affect people younger than 20, with children between the ages of 6 and 12 most likely to experience them. This type of seizure can run in families. Most children with petit mal seizures have otherwise normal neurological systems. Many can expect to outgrow the disorder.

 

Petite mal, or absence, seizures are characterized by an abrupt interruption of consciousness without convulsion. During the typical, seconds-long episode there is a zoning out, rarely with chewing, swallowing, or blinking automatisms. The individual usually continues doing what he was doing, despite the seizure, yet his actions are void of intention, automated. Interaction is not possible during the episode. Following the seizure, the child often continues in the activity that engaged him prior to the seizure?s onset as though a lapse did not occur. In their subtlety, petite mals can be easily missed. Sometimes children with these seizure are misdiagnosed with learning or behavioral problems.

 

Nikrix

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It could be Petit Mals which is a form of epilepsy. When you child is having these absences can you get through to him?? NIkrix

 

 

I agree with Nikrix its sounds like petite mals to me and i would go and have it checked out by your GP.

 

justamom

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My daughter is 9 and is dyspraxic and is being assessed for aspergers as well. We saw an OT and I asked daughter if there was anything she was worried about that she could discuss with the OT. We ended up with a list as long as your arm, but one of the things that Daughter mentioned that sometimes in the class room she would just stare at something and she couldn't stop stareing, she could hear what was going on arround her but she couldn't snap out of it. We brought up the subject of petite mal but the OT thought it was more likely that there was so much going on arround her that she was just shutting off.

 

If it was a petite mal would daughter be aware that it was happening? Should I be worrying?

 

Deb

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Hi Suze,

 

Down the years, my daughter's teachers mentioned in passing that she would shut off and appear to freeze in class for a few minutes at a time. At the time we just shrugged it off as there were so many other inexplicable things going on with her and she didn't have a dx. Now, with hindsight, I believe that she was experiencing overload during these times - she herself confirmed that this happened during one or two incidents in the classroom when she was 14. It happened at home as well occasionally and less noticeably.

 

She's had every scan and investigation going, so in her case we could rule out epileptic seizures. I agree with the advice that you need to check first whether there's a medical cause for your son's behaviour.

 

For a very interesting discussion of shutdown and autism I can recommend Donna Williams Exposure Anxiety - the Invisible Cage. Like all her books it's complex, but definitely worth a read; it helped me to understand a bit more about my daughter's behaviour and reactions.

 

K x

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Guest hallyscomet

Hi Suze

 

When my daughter was diagosed with Epilepsy they recommended a booklet to read. There is grandmal, benign tonic, and petit mal. This sounds similar to the mildest one Petit Mal.

 

I was speaking to various people about my daughter afterwards, and a mother explained to me exactly what you and a few of the others had said and her son was diagnosed with petit mal. Just blanking out like staring into space.

 

There is nothing to worry about as this one cannot do any harm.

 

Ring the Epilepsy Association for the booklet it tells you all about it. My daughters epilepsy was Benign Tonic so I don't know much about Petit Mal, have you spoken to your doctor, or rang Epilepsy Association for advice.

 

Actually just type in to google Petit Mal

 

Here is one

http://www.healthline.com/health/neurological/000696.html

 

 

Hope this helps

 

Hailey

Edited by hallyscomet

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If epilepsy is ruled out it may be a response to flicker in the school lighting wher changes can be seen in brain arousal levels. (increased alpha at occipital cortex)

Send me an e mail and will send you info

IanJordan@visualdyslexia.com

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A has these and was tested for epilepsy but this was ruled out. His ASD specialist said that it is an autistic shut down in response to sensory over load (similar to tuning out but taken to a much greater extreme and all senses and sometimes movement shuts down), doesn't need to be light or sound, can be smell or touch that causes it.

 

A's home tutor says that she finds it scary when it happens because there's just nothing there. He also complains about being confused afterwards and it takes him some time to recover just as it would with an epiletic absence or fit. Maybe mention it to the Doctor and see what they think.

 

 

HERE is a link to an article on the internet. I did read another article that stressed the "absence" more and why epilepsy is often considered.

 

 

HERE is another article.

Edited by Tez

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:D Thank you so much for all your replies and information, off to school now but I,ll be back at dinner to go through all the info cheers guys knew you,d be able to help >:D<<'> >:D<<'> >:D<<'> ...........a very appreciative Suzexxx :wub:

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Hiya Suze >:D<<'>

 

M does this as well - it was one of the fist things that concerned me when he was a toddler - he had all sorts of MRI, EEG....(can't remember the name of them all now....) tests. Nothing was conclusive, except for an acnaroid cyst on the right frontal lobe - which apparently wouldn't cause seizures). When he was younger he would have upto 25 a day.

 

From what i've been told - it is a sensory overload problem (he has a dx of SID)- they do happen mainly at school (or if we take him somewhere crowded). But, they can happen even if he's quite - or the area he's in is, to everyone else (but him! IYSWIM) thought to be quite. It sometimes happens hours after an overload - just his bodys way of 'recovering'. He goes 'blank' and cannot hear or see anyone - he 'freezes', and then takes a huge breath in and is usually confused afterwards...

 

Reading that back - my brains doing this......... :wacko: Hope that's made some sense!! :lol:

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There are over 40 types of epileptic seizure. A generalised seizure, which affects the whole brain, can result in a petit mal/absence seizure, but a partial seizure, affecting only a part of the brain, can also result in an absence seizure, but there might not be a complete loss of awareness.

 

There is also a type of seizure which results in the muscles completely relaxing and the person falls to the floor, without convulsions. This is called an atonic seizure, and may be what the "fainting" actually is.

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Guest hallyscomet
A has these and was tested for epilepsy but this was ruled out. His ASD specialist said that it is an autistic shut down in response to sensory over load (similar to tuning out but taken to a much greater extreme and all senses and sometimes movement shuts down), doesn't need to be light or sound, can be smell or touch that causes it.

 

A's home tutor says that she finds it scary when it happens because there's just nothing there. He also complains about being confused afterwards and it takes him some time to recover just as it would with an epiletic absence or fit. Maybe mention it to the Doctor and see what they think.

HERE is a link to an article on the internet. I did read another article that stressed the "absence" more and why epilepsy is often considered.

HERE is another article.

 

 

Hi Tez,

 

Thanks just read these amazing reports. This is what happened to B when I first noticed the Autism at age two really glassy eyed - I believe since he had the MMR booster at 15 even though he is taking medication that helped him with this, all these things explained in the report are what are happening to him all over again.

I am going to print these reports and take the to his Paediatrician and email them to the special ed teacher at the college to see if she can come up with some suggestions.

 

This is my boy everyday lately.... and he is 18.. :wub: he was put on medication for the anxiety but he is still everything this report suggest. :tearful::o so desperate for answers as he is a recluse in his room day by day and nothing I or the Paediatrician can do to change that at present. Just letting him go and waiting, like they say for him to come back on his terms..... :wub:

 

Thanks again

 

Hailey

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Guest hallyscomet

Hi Suze, >:D<<'> >:D<<'>

 

Just wanted to send you some of these >:D<<'> >:D<<'> >:D<<'> >:D<<'> >:D<<'>

 

Love

Haileyx

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This is what happened to B when I first noticed the Autism at age two really glassy eyed - I believe since he had the MMR booster at 15 even though he is taking medication that helped him with this, all these things explained in the report are what are happening to him all over again.............

 

This is my boy everyday lately.... and he is 18.. he was put on medication for the anxiety but he is still everything this report suggest. so desperate for answers as he is a recluse in his room day by day and nothing I or the Paediatrician can do to change that at present. Just letting him go and waiting, like they say for him to come back on his terms.....

 

>:D<<'> >:D<<'> Hailey for us the sensory difficulties, and the shutdowns in particular, are the most debilitating part of A's autism. Like your son, A is virtually confined to the house because of his shutdowns, he even has to be educated at home. I know the Doctors are right and that it is not epilepsy because when in an environment he can control, A doesn't have them. Outside the house, they happen constantly with no obvious trigger.

 

I hope things improve for you and everyone else soon. If anyone comes up with any miracle solutions, other than controlling the environment, I'd love to hear.

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Most obvious trigger is visual instability.

Ask the following questions as a start

 

Do things appear strange sometimes

Do colours change / pulse or can he see colours when looking around

Do some "images" appear on top of others - ie do they persist

Does he feel dizzy / sick

Does what he looks at change during viewing

Is he frightened by anything he sees

Do things "jump" into his field of vision

Do peoples faces look strange

Does light hurt his eyes / head

Is noise painful / disturbing

 

If the answer is yes to any then you need to follow it up

The good news is that they CAN be helped

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Guest hallyscomet
>:D<<'> >:D<<'> Hailey for us the sensory difficulties, and the shutdowns in particular, are the most debilitating part of A's autism. Like your son, A is virtually confined to the house because of his shutdowns, he even has to be educated at home. I know the Doctors are right and that it is not epilepsy because when in an environment he can control, A doesn't have them. Outside the house, they happen constantly with no obvious trigger.

 

I hope things improve for you and everyone else soon. If anyone comes up with any miracle solutions, other than controlling the environment, I'd love to hear.

 

 

I agree Tez, if anyone comes up with a miracle solution, I would love to hear about it too.

 

How old is A. .... and how is the homeschooling going.... if you don't mind.

 

H.

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Hmmmmmm - the hardest part with my son is trying to get him to explain how things affect him - most of the time, the things he will comment on, he feels are normal to everyone else, and becomes upset or confused if i ask him about it.... Plus, he has huge problems expressing himself - so it makes asking him questions really difficult.... If pushed he will go into shutdown

 

Do things appear strange sometimes

Yes - at school - things wiggle around when my brain is tired

 

Do colours change / pulse or can he see colours when looking around

Some things have colours around them - things bump about if i look at them too many minutes

 

Do some "images" appear on top of others - ie do they persist

He didnt understand

 

Does he feel dizzy / sick

Yes, dizzy - my mind hurts

 

Does what he looks at change during viewing

Things wiggle, things far away move

 

Is he frightened by anything he sees

Scary people faces

 

Do things "jump" into his field of vision

He didnt understand

 

Do peoples faces look strange

Yes (he wouldnt elaborate...'Just do')

 

Does light hurt his eyes / head

Yes - lots.

 

Is noise painful / disturbing

Yes - all the banging at school and all the talking at school makes my brain get confused. The lights make a 'hhhhmmmmmm' noise all the time and my brain can't think - it gets bashed about.

 

 

And there we have it, im really proud of him - it was alot more than i can usually get out of him - :wacko: Anyone speak Little Monkey??? :rolleyes:

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:( ..........gosh Smiley just reading your post made me realise just how flipping hard it must be to be in such an environment and learn at the same time :( .

Tez...........your post was really interesting, can you describe what you observe about your son when he has these shutdowns, I,d love to hear if there similar to my sons thanks.Suzex.

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Hi Suze, >:D<<'>

 

You have so many informations already but I thought to put for you the link I have put last week about epilepsy you can navigate through it there is a lot there, in any case I think it would be wise to ask a letter to the school and show it to your GP for a referal regarding epilepsy it is always better to know the answer has it can get worst with time.

 

Take care.

 

Malika.

 

This the link:

 

http://www.emedicine.com/NEURO/topic687.htm

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Hi Suze,

 

You've had loads of great information so far. Just wanted to send you a >:D<<'> Jaden has epilepsy - but he has / had (under control with meds :pray: ) Grand mals and I don't know a lot about the other types of seizures.

 

Denisex

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:D thanks for the link malika, it,s a good idea for the school to put in writing their observations, had,nt thought of that.Jadensmum, >:D<<'> ,thanks.

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hi Ian sorry I did,nt get back to you about the questions, my dear son has been a little un-forthcoming.....

he said some lights hurt his eyes and head..........things change colour...........he was reluctant to answer as he can be a bit stubborn bless him :rolleyes: .

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Diagnosed by psychiatrist:

 

Autistic Spectrum Problem, Pervasive Developmental Problem

(Not to be diagnosed as Disorders)

 

Self-Diagnosis:

 

1.) I have a short memory loss for seconds or so.

 

2. )While I am sleeping, saliva goes into respiratory tract and I wake up because I can't breathe. It happens once or twice a year from early childhood. I think it happens when the stress is accumulated and it happens only during the sleeping time.

I try to reduce stress and sleep well. Once I had a serious problem during the sleeping, saliva went into the respiratory tract but when I tried to take out saliva in the deep place ofrespiratory tract, every time I can't deep breathe but at that time some gastric fluid dropped into respiratory tract. It happened in 2003 and I was working hard at that time and had inflammation, it was hard to speak for a day or so at that time. However, it is very hard for me when I can't breathe.

 

I wonder why those things happen ?

 

In 2006, I visited psychiatrist at University Hospital and had EEG and CT exam but there isn't any evidence about epilepsy through the examinations.

 

I have autistic spectrum problem and I've been medicated for sleeping med and minor tranquilizer. And I try to reduce my stress and sleeping well.

 

It seems absence seizures.... I think...

 

 

 

:(

Edited by jessicaanne

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