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MMR and autism


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#1 call me jaded

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Posted 04 June 2006 - 07:26 AM

QUOTE
Study Finds MMR Is Linked With Autism

By Lucy Johnston for the Sunday Express http://www.express.co.uk

Scientists have confirmed the controversial link between MMR and
autism.
The findings corroborate research by Dr Andrew Wakefield, discredited
by the Department of Health for suggesting the combined measles, mumps and
rubella jab may have contributed to rises in the disorder.
The new study, led by Dr Arthur Krigsman, a child gastroenterologist
from New York University School of Medicine, has led to calls for an
immediate overhaul of Britain's child vaccination programme.
The research, to be presented at the International Conference for
Autism Research in Montreal next week, is still going on but, unusually
early findings have been released because of the significance.
The study, which covers 275 children and is being carried out at
different medical centres in America, found serious intestinal inflammation
in autistic children identical to that described by Dr Wakefield and his
colleagues eight years ago.
Gut biopsy tissue from 82 of these children reveals that 85 per cent
have evidence of the measles virus in their inflamed intestines. Fourteen
have so far been confirmed by more stringent DNA tests.
The news will be a huge embarrassment for the Department of Health
which rubbished Dr Wakefield's research on the grounds it was uncorroborated
"bad science". Steve Walker, assistant professor at Wake Forest University
Medical Centre, North Carolina, who analysed the gut samples, said the work
mirrored Dr Wakefield's study.
"We're very excited by our findings," he said. "Wakefield's study was
criticised because it lacked replication. Our goal is to see if the finding
was real. Preliminary results show that it was."
Just as Dr Wakefield discovered in his work on the children with a
previously unidentified bowel condition, Dr Krigsman's patients had all
inexplicably deteriorated, losing language and other skills at around 12 to
18 months of age.
All of the children under both doctors were diagnosed with autism and
had come to them seeking help for symptoms of serious digestive problems for
which no explanation could be found.
Dr Wakefield, who was forced to resign his job as a gastroenterologist
at the Royal Free Hospital in north London after he publicised his theory,
welcomed the research. He said: "The Department of Health was able to
discredit our research by saying no one else had found similar results to
ours but no one else had looked.
"In the light of these results - which are strikingly similar to ours
- the Government and its regulators are obliged to act. At this stage it
would be prudent and in the best interests of vaccine uptake to make single
vaccines available."
Dr Richard Halvorsen, a GP from the Holborn Medical Centre in central
London, who is writing a book on the child vaccination programme, said:
"This is incredibly powerful evidence confirming the link between autism,
MMR and bowel disease.
"The Government should withdraw MMR until its safety can be proven,
particularly as we have safer and effective alternatives."
Jackie Fletcher, founder of Jabs, a support group for parents who
believe their children have been damaged by vaccines, said: "This study
confirms that the measles virus is present in the guts of these children
when it shouldn't be.
"This also shows that the studies, which the Government use as proof
of the safety of MMR vaccine, are inadequate. The MMR should be suspended
and single jabs reinstated immediately. We cannot take risks with our
children."
A spokeswoman for the Department of Health said it could not comment
on the research until it had been presented but she defended the triple jab.
"There is no link between autism and the MMR vaccine," she said. "MMR
remains the best form of protection against measles, mumps and rubella."


#2 LizK

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Posted 04 June 2006 - 12:27 PM

I saw a similar article in the Daily Mail yesterday which made me raise my eyebrows as they'd already published the same thing a week before. Think there is a thread elsewhere on this site about it.

I'm not sure what the study is really saying. At the most there is an association between MMR and the presence of the measles vaccine in the gut wall lining but that is a long way from saying that it is actually causing MMR though no doubtedly some people will make that leap of faith. They are using a very select group of autistic children, have announced result half way through the study which could be argued to be poor scientific practice. It's prelim results and the study has yet to be published in a peer reviewed journal. Where is the control group? Maybe all NT MMRed children have measles vaccine components in their gut lining too? Maybe all vaccines have residual components in the gut wall? Have they tested for the presence of diptheria, haemophilus, tetanus? What about children who have single vaccines, what happens to their guts? Like alot of reseach it poses more questions than answers

Lx

#3 baddad

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Posted 04 June 2006 - 08:51 PM

Hi liz - I think I can answer a few of those question...

Control group - That could be feasible NOW, but earlier tests lacked a control group option because there simply weren't enough unvaccinated children. If you meant a control group that had had individual vaccines that would still be hellishly difficult, as individual vaccines have not been generally available in this country and the quality controls where they have been available privately have been less than rigorous...

NT MMRe'd kids were not found to have the same antibody's in Wakefields research in anywhere near the same sort of numbers> That said, if the MMR is a 'trigger' for an underlying predisposition, finding it in the NT kids gut lining would be a moot point anyway - they weren't 'predisposed'...

On the other stuff - I think publication of 'early findings' or 'preliminary findings' is pretty much standard practice in medical journals - Wakefield's own research was released under similar circumstances... the 'poor scientific practice' is a bit of a spin doctor's red-herring - used to discredit data without actually admitting that it IS STANDARD (poor scientific) practice...

That 'leap of faith' is not surprising, given the fact that despite all the rhetoric and spin there has never been any DIRECT study other than the research that implies a connection. Additionally, the information used by the government to reassure people about MMR HAS been full of very real inconsistencies and misinformation: That could just be DOH 'blunder', but it does serve to add fuel to the fire when the DOH say one thing and there is positive evidence to the contrary...
For me, it comes down to a couple of very basic pieces of information:
All three components of the MMR vaccine have been historically linked with autism - two directly and the third (mumps) indirectly. Those three components are given (in the case of the first vaccine) during the single most important phase of post natal neurological development... To me the assumption that this IS safe seems far more far fetched than accepting the possibility that there MIGHT be something worthy of further investigation...

L&P

BD biggrin.gif

#4 CarolJ

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Posted 05 June 2006 - 09:54 AM

QUOTE (baddad @ Jun 4 2006, 09:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
For me, it comes down to a couple of very basic pieces of information:
All three components of the MMR vaccine have been historically linked with autism - two directly and the third (mumps) indirectly. Those three components are given (in the case of the first vaccine) during the single most important phase of post natal neurological development... To me the assumption that this IS safe seems far more far fetched than accepting the possibility that there MIGHT be something worthy of further investigation...

L&P

BD biggrin.gif


Hi BD, hows it going.

Chicken pox virus is a another one that is suspected to trigger autism too and plans are to introduce it to the MMR as licence for MMR has now expired so we will be looking at the MMRV smile.gif

Will take this opportunity to repeat a posting on another thread!


"RESEARCH REVIEW INTERNATIONAL Vol. 20, No.1, 2006 Biomedical Update: Harvard researchers confirm Gl/autism link Harvard physician Timothy Buie recently reported that biopsies performed by him revealed the presence of chronic inflammation of the gastrointestinal tract, as well as the presence of lymphoid nodular hyperplasia, in 15 of 89 autistic children. The findings parallel those of Andrew Wakefield, the researcher who first identified the presence of a unique type of gastrointestinal disorder in children with autism spectrum disorders. Buie told a conference in December, ?These children are ill, in distress and pain, and not just mentally, neurologically dysfunctional.? Buie, Rafail Kushak, and colleagues also have measured the activity of dissaccharidases (enzymes that break down carbohydrates in the intestine) in tissues obtained from duodenal biopsies from 308 autistic individuals, comparing them to samples from 206 non-autistic controls. All of the subjects underwent endoscopy for suspected gastrointestinal problems. The researchers report, ?Autistic individuals with diarrhea [206 individuals] demonstrated significantly lower maltase activity than non-autistic individuals with diarrhea. Frequency of lactase deficiency in autistic individuals with failure to thrive [five individuals] was significantly higher (80% vs. 25%) than in non-autistic individuals with failure to thrive, and frequency of palatinase deficiency in autistic individuals with diarrhea was significantly higher than in nonautistic individuals with the same gastrointestinal problem.? Autistic and non-autistic individuals with other gastrointestinal problems exhibited similar frequencies of disaccharidase deficiencies. These findings further support the link between autism and a novel form of gastrointestinal disease, and are consistent with clinical evidence that many autistic children improve physically and behaviorally when they are placed on gluten- and casein-free diets and receive supplements of disaccharidase enzymes. ??? ??? ??? ?Gastrointestinal symptoms and intestinal disaccharidase activities in children with autism,? Rafail Kushak, Harland Winter, Nathan Farber, and Timothy Buie, Abstract of presentation to the North American Society of Pediatric Gastroenterology, Hepatology, and Nutrition, Annual Meeting, October 20-22, 2005, Salt Lake City, Utah. ?Gastrointestinal symptoms and intestinal disaccharidase activities in children with autism,? Rafail Kushak, Harland Winter, Nathan Farber, and Timothy Buie, Journal of Pediatric Gastroenterology and Nutrition, Vol. 41, No.4, October 2005. ?Harvard Clinic scientist finds gut/autism link, like Wakefield findings,? FEAT Newsletter, December 2005. Address: Rafail I. Kushak, Pediatric GI/Nu- trition, Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, MA02l14."

#5 Paula

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Posted 05 June 2006 - 11:25 AM

I know this is going againsnt what many people professionals and parents alike think but its what i beleive.

My son had the mmr vacine but im of the mind that it had nothing to do with his autism.I personally dont think anything triggers or causes autism.I beleive children are autisic from the moment of conception and its just a coincidence that parents start to notice differences around the time of the vacine.



I beleive and againe just my opinion that the autistic braine is fundementally wired differently to nt braines and this happens in the very beginnings of life.

Not everyone agrees.But its what i think.

#6 Flora

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Posted 05 June 2006 - 12:13 PM

Paula,

I don't think MMR causes every instance of autism, after all autism has been around much longer than the MMR, but I believe it is a trigger. There is some research information on the Sunderland research site which outlines specific 'types'. My eldest son was definately born with autism and I can identify his type from Paul Shattocks research. However, the MMR and the booster MMR definately caused regression and severe bowel problems so I'm unwilling to accept that the coincidence occurred twice, there has got to be a biological link! My youngest son was perfectly fine up until he had the MMR vaccine, after which he became a totally non-verbal spaced out toddler and developed severe constipation almost overnight. I didn't dare allow him to have the booster as I'm certain we would have seen more regression.

What ever way the research is presented, whether for or against a link to MMR, nothing can detract from the overwhelming circumtantial evidence which our government is ignoring. It's totally irresponsible for them to ignore this evidence.

Lauren

#7 KezT

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 06:04 PM

http://news.bbc.co.u...lth/8268302.stm

New study shows no rise in autism rates sicne the introduction of MMR - therefore the chances it "causes" or even "triggers" autism seems even less likely.

The study discussed above just showed that children with digestive problems may have had the mmr - what has that got to do with thier autism? Neither of the autistic people in my family have digestive problems, one is too old for the MMR and the other had it. I don't consider that was anything to do with his autism tho.

#8 baddad

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 07:37 PM

QUOTE (KezT @ Sep 22 2009, 07:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
http://news.bbc.co.u...lth/8268302.stm

New study shows no rise in autism rates sicne the introduction of MMR - therefore the chances it "causes" or even "triggers" autism seems even less likely.

The study discussed above just showed that children with digestive problems may have had the mmr - what has that got to do with thier autism? Neither of the autistic people in my family have digestive problems, one is too old for the MMR and the other had it. I don't consider that was anything to do with his autism tho.


Blimey - you must have been trawling to find this thread! laughing.gif
Not banging a drum for either side, but I suspect this research will cause more speculation than it resolves. 'No increase in the incidence of autism' goes against just about every previous study for the past 20 years or so, and vague mutterings about a huge population of undiagnosed adults isn't going to overcome the weight of those previous studies, especially when it comes from an NHS study funded (presumably) from govt coffers...

whistle.gif

#9 KezT

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 07:41 PM

QUOTE (baddad @ Sep 22 2009, 08:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Blimey - you must have been trawling to find this thread! laughing.gif


It was the first one with MMR in the title on the top page when I went to "vaccines" - I don't usually bother to contribute to these threads as I know most of the people here have already made up their mind that there must be someone to blame for autism, and no amount of evidence will ever change thier minds rolleyes.gif

#10 Wildkat

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 10:40 PM

As with Paula's post, this is only my opinion. I think the research is great, it won't make a difference to me and mine, but if it prevents another family having to cope with Autism, then it's worth it. The health autority should stop the vacines even if there is a small chance there might be a problem. Who are they to mess with others lives like that, If they aren't stopped, people should be informed about the possible risks and given an alternitive if they wish.

I whole heartedly believe that the MMR triggered my wee ones autism. She was late in getting it and was developing fine until then.
Research is good, debate is great as it opens the doors for more reasearch.

Again, this is only my opinion.

#11 shaz71

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 01:06 PM

QUOTE (Wildkat @ Sep 22 2009, 11:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As with Paula's post, this is only my opinion. I think the research is great, it won't make a difference to me and mine, but if it prevents another family having to cope with Autism, then it's worth it. The health autority should stop the vacines even if there is a small chance there might be a problem. Who are they to mess with others lives like that, If they aren't stopped, people should be informed about the possible risks and given an alternitive if they wish.

I whole heartedly believe that the MMR triggered my wee ones autism. She was late in getting it and was developing fine until then.
Research is good, debate is great as it opens the doors for more reasearch.

Again, this is only my opinion.


Hi i believe both sides i do think they are born with it but that mmr can attribute to it worsening, my daughter who is presenting with autistic tendencies which she did have but not has bad then after the mmr her reflux got really bad which made her stop breathing and have seizures for a while which have now gone but then she lost the ten words that she knew including mum and dad then it took her until age 2 to start again and in them 7mths her tantrums were severe to the point where she was head butting and causing herself damage and others, although she is a lot better , this obviously showed that she is allergic to something in the mmr vaccine it doesn't mean it is the thiomersal which is the ingrediant they thought was the cause which funnily enough i am allergic to...... I had really bad guts when growing up and still do to some extent i had a fistula which is a opening in my intestines which caused real bad infections in my urinary tract as it was blocking everything no wonder i did autistic things myself due to all the poison in my system which they think is another reason why they act like they do, i could go over 2wks without going to the toilet which obviously isn't healthy and needed supplements to help me go. I now have dermitis on the eyes which the consultant said he dealt with a woman with similar pattern and she had crohns, never had my insides checked since being young although i know i need to get them checked as my bowel movements have changed from once a week to twice a day so i need to do something but i don't like approaching on that subject. So we all could be right each child is different and the mmr might cause symptoms in one child and not in the other so i don't think anyone is wrong here. Sharon x

#12 rasin555

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  • Interests:Knowledge and understanding against measles with the mmr vaccine autism.
    Prevent and understand the process use mmr vaccine autism. And understand
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Posted 03 November 2013 - 07:02 PM

Knowledge and understanding against measles with the mmr vaccine autism.

Prevent and understand the process use mmr vaccine autism. And understand

the process of MMR immunisation. You can follow website http://www.mmrvaccineautism.com/






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