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Desperate mum in new suicide bid.

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A woman who twice attempted suicide after claiming she could no longer care for her daughter has tried to take her own life again, her solicitor says.

 

Supply teacher Wendy Ainscow, 65, from Merseyside, survived a suicide pact in which her 75-year-old husband Bill died in November 2004.

 

The pair took anti-depressants before wading into the sea off the island of Tenerife.

 

In April 2005, Mrs Ainscow again travelled to Tenerife and tried to take her life in the same way, but without success.

 

On Saturday, Mrs Ainscow returned to the Canary Islands, where she was rescued unconscious from the sea off the coast of La Gomera.

 

She was flown to the University Hospital in Tenerife, where her condition is described as stable.

 

The latest suicide attempt comes just weeks before ITV is due to screen a 90-minute drama, called Mysterious Creatures, based on the story of Wendy and her daughter Lisa, 35.

 

Mrs Ainscow said her original suicide attempts were in despair at trying to care for her daughter, whom she claims suffers from a form of autism.

 

She says she and her husband were left with huge debts after Lisa, who denies being mentally ill, became obsessed with buying designer clothes and shoes.

 

Mrs Ainscow's solicitor, David Kirwan, said: "This week's suicide attempt is the latest shocking turn in an appalling family tragedy. Three times now Wendy Ainscow has felt left with no alternative but to take her own life.''

 

I can only say from my own personal point of view is that I cannot get respite anymore, nor can I get support and nor can I get a social worker for T but having said that, no matter how hard things get, we do strive on through thick and thin.

Yes I have been low, VERY low and have wanted to run away but I could NEVER think of killing myself b/c of it. T needs me here!.

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Omg the poor family I'd only heard of the first attempt when her husband died. She must be so very desperate to continue trying to end her life again and again. Is no help been given to the family?? I can't begin to imagine what 35 years of constantly managing to look after her daughter must have been like, we know how little support there is now but i believe 30some yrs ago it was even worse. I see in my own parents now just how much age does tire you out and why indeed retirement is really needed by 60/65 though I suppose there are some spritely OAP out there but few of them have given 30yrs care to there children in the way parents of sen kids need to. I think your energy levels go down and everything is much harder and its even easier to become depressed by it all.

 

I just hope someone is there for her this time and her and her daughter get the support they obviously need.

 

Lorraine

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I feel suicidal very often, I've tried to analyze why some people get suicidal and some people feel would go on no matter what cos they have such strong views, my son asd despite getting quite severe mental health probs at times is adamantly against suicide and his relationship with me broke down completely after that because it affected him so badly as he found me and he was only 12, you don't need to criticise me for it as i was already criticised by everyone including mental health people who said I was attention seeking and was not depressed but I felt there was no thother way out, but i do really regret that i did it and he found me I wouldn't have intended that in a million years and don't know why i did that and I blame myself anyway but it doesn't take away the fact I still feel suicidal because I can't cope or organise things and I get so overloaded and frightened and hysterical because I can't sort anything out and no one understands I can't, I think they jusst think I am an attention seeker because I can't explain properly how I feel, and go into too many details without getting to the point and that is part of asd in my case and how I can try and explain things but I sometimes feel there is no point I hate the way i sound when I get like that but don't know how to organise it to make sense in a rational way

 

Things are definitiely loads better when people can be understanding, I also used to feel that I needed to be around for my son when he was younger but now I just feel I made everything worse and I wasn't able able to get him the help he needed anyway, and that has definitely contributed to my feeling of failure and despair and uselessness.

 

Also my father the entire time iknew him was strongly opposed to suicide but funnily enough I found out he had several attempts as a child trying to hang himself etc. MY father was also classic undx asperger syndrome, because they didn't dx it in those days

 

Sometimes there may be additonal mental health problems that aren't dzx because the asd and communication problem masks it.

 

i feel sorry for this woman very sorry but the world is full of people with these types of problems at least hers are getting attention and recognition, and even then there is no help, there so many others that are also in this situation

Edited by florrie

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This is so sad - I read a shorter version of this in the Metro today. The bit about failing the suicide pact with her hubbs is especially sad. It looks like God just keeps telling her it's just not her time to go.

 

I've been suicidal - it becomes all enveloping and you really can't think properly. The strange thing was in the end I was too cowardly to do it - because it's a sin against God and I know it's one of the things he's dead set against and I'd probably go to Hell. So better to live Hell on earth really rather than in eternity.

 

It's not like that now - much improved - but I do feel for this poor woman immensely.

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I feel suicidal very often, I've tried to analyze why some people get suicidal and some people feel would go on no matter what cos they have such strong views, my son asd despite getting quite severe mental health probs at times is adamantly against suicide and his relationship with me broke down completely after that because it affected him so badly as he found me and he was only 12, you don't need to criticise me for it as i was already criticised by everyone including mental health people who said I was attention seeking and was not depressed but I felt there was no thother way out, but i do really regret that i did it and he found me I wouldn't have intended that in a million years and don't know why i did that and I blame myself anyway but it doesn't take away the fact I still feel suicidal because I can't cope or organise things and I get so overloaded and frightened and hysterical because I can't sort anything out and no one understands I can't, I think they jusst think I am an attention seeker because I can't explain properly how I feel, and go into too many details without getting to the point and that is part of asd in my case and how I can try and explain things but I sometimes feel there is no point I hate the way i sound when I get like that but don't know how to organise it to make sense in a rational way

 

Things are definitiely loads better when people can be understanding, I also used to feel that I needed to be around for my son when he was younger but now I just feel I made everything worse and I wasn't able able to get him the help he needed anyway, and that has definitely contributed to my feeling of failure and despair and uselessness.

 

Also my father the entire time iknew him was strongly opposed to suicide but funnily enough I found out he had several attempts as a child trying to hang himself etc. MY father was also classic undx asperger syndrome, because they didn't dx it in those days

 

Sometimes there may be additonal mental health problems that aren't dzx because the asd and communication problem masks it.

 

i feel sorry for this woman very sorry but the world is full of people with these types of problems at least hers are getting attention and recognition, and even then there is no help, there so many others that are also in this situation

 

 

 

Hi Florrie,

 

I can totally relate to what you are saying and I think you expressed your feelings very well. It's very easy for people to judge others and say that they are wrong to consider suicide, etc., it is much harder to understand the utter despair which drives a person to carry out this act.

 

I share a lot of your feelings and I am very mixed on the question of suicide. I come from it from both angles as my father committed suicide when I was nine and I also have suffered with suicidal feelings myself. I feel deeply sorry about the terrible feelings that my father must have been struggling with to make him do what he did, but I also know that, in reality, I could never do the same to my loved ones. However bad it gets and however much I might feel that people are better off without me or that I just can't face going on, in the end we do go on and we must.

 

Try and hold on to the thoughts that whatever you are feeling now and whatever you are going through now, it cannot and will not last forever and things WILL change and it won't always be like this.

 

Be good to yourself.

 

~ Mel ~

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oh my goodness this is awfull.i think i have read about this family a while back and that the parents had never managed to SAY NO to this girl who bled them dry.did she have aspergers was this the same people.they the parents remorgaged there house and alsorts so she(the aspie) could go shopping trips.she loves expensive shoes and handbags and desiner gear...maybe it is a good lesson to all of us.dont give a aspie everything they want cos they are not going to like it when you try to cut them off.these poor oldies got no help with this lass.now its to late.terrible story...noogsy

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dont think im being sarky but the tragedy is these people would probably have been advised to go on a parenting corse....again i get so angry...noogsy

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dont think im being sarky but the tragedy is these people would probably have been advised to go on a parenting corse....again i get so angry...noogsy

 

Umm, guess what course I had offered to me back 3yrs ago when I was fighting for my son's HFA dx and the docs and CAMHS kept saying he wasn't?

:wallbash:

 

Needless to say, I told them where to stick their course. :whistle:

Edited by Tylers-mum

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I understand dispair and feeling helpless and at the end of the rope but what I dont understand is by killing oneself ends that because for those left behind it continues, if that mum had of been successful her daughter wouldnt be any better off, but motherless and if anything more emotional disturbing thoughts for her, how can by killing oneself solves the situation, yes your not here, but the person who has caused you so much heartache is still here, they still need someone to care and love them, why going would that be better for that person, I couldnt bear the thought if I had a accident and died what my J would do, where he would live, who would look after him, who would understand him better than I do, those are the questions many ask, but by committing suicide that act is also a crime in the fact you are leaving emotional harm and torture behind.

 

if by breathing and your heart beating your doing more than by not been here, the best film by far if your ever in daught about is it worth been here is a film that shows you the meaning of ones life been here means.

 

A wonderful life,

 

Its frustrating and unfair there is no support from social services but there is services out there the only problem is footing the bill but that is a far fairer price than not been here at all.

 

JsMum

Edited by JsMum

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This is so sad - although if it's the one that they've just made a drama with Timothy Spall & Brenda Blethin (which I think is on TV this week?) - I read in the paper only last week an article by the daughter saying that she has not got Aspergers and that it was her mother who had all the problems....it was a very odd scenario.

 

Take care,

Jb

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Hi all -

 

TBH I only know this situation from the info in the article itself, but it worries me that Aspergers/Autism is being targeted for the reason behind this family tragedy when there doesn't appear to be any evidence to back that assertion other than the mother's 'home' diagnosis... Even if the daughter IS autistic or asperger, why the assumption that that is the reason for he 'obsession' with designer clothes and spending and her ill treatment of her parents? There are THOUSANDS of people who are in debt up to their eyeballs, who would beg steal and cheat their parents to sustain that life style and who would show no remorse whatsoever. Are they ALL autistic??

Additionally, without wishing to trivialise the situation or ignore the very genuine distress and anguish of the parents, these are hardly typical responses, are they? To the best of my knowledge, people don't commit suicide because they are 'pushed' into it - they do so because they have mental health/social/physical problems that are not being appropriately responded to. Blame society, blame social services, blame the NHS by all means, but to lay the blame for that on one individual seems like the worst sort of cop out, no matter how much that individual may (or may not) have contributed to the whole picture...

 

If there's more to this story than I've seen, please accept my apologies, but based on what's written here, I think there's more than one injustice to be considered...

 

L&P

 

BD

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:(:tearful: Words don't seem enough, do they? :(

 

I agree a horrible situation for ALL involved, regardless of the 'who's' and 'why's'. I hope the programme gives an understanding and (most importantly), an accurate portrayal.

 

Here's a link about the programme - i'd love to know when it's on.

 

 

http://www.awares.org/pkgs/news/news.asp?s...de=&section

Edited by smiley

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From my knowledge the dx is not a home grown one.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/4046053.stm

 

Even if the daughter IS autistic or asperger, why the assumption that that is the reason for he 'obsession' with designer clothes and spending and her ill treatment of her parents? There are THOUSANDS of people who are in debt up to their eyeballs, who would beg steal and cheat their parents to sustain that life style and who would show no remorse whatsoever. Are they ALL autistic??

 

Absoutley not - BUT - from my understanding of this and of course it has been gained via the press and other sites http://www.learningdisabilities.org.uk/pro...830&print=1 also on some of the other group where I am also a member, that this was a full blown auti obsession and there are many of us here who must understand what it is like to live with full blown obsessions no matter what they are or how they manifest.

 

I have to say that my concern was that they did not just draw a line under this obsession as many of us have to but we also know what living with the fall out can be like. This woman no matter what her dx had been sectioned because of mental health problems but was then released within a few months. From what I gather her parents had been screaming for help for years - their daughter was a formidable young woman.

 

Additionally, without wishing to trivialise the situation or ignore the very genuine distress and anguish of the parents, these are hardly typical responses, are they?

 

Desperate I would say and having helped many hundreds of parents I see it on a daily basis.

 

To the best of my knowledge, people don't commit suicide because they are 'pushed' into it - they do so because they have mental health/social/physical problems that are not being appropriately responded to. Blame society, blame social services, blame the NHS by all means, but to lay the blame for that on one individual seems like the worst sort of cop out, no matter how much that individual may (or may not) have contributed to the whole picture...

 

I don't think that one person is being blamed.

 

You know we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. I suppose they could have just walked away but then if you read some of the posts that are up on Awares posted by adults with autism and what happens after people do walk away it is simply horrifying. Suicide is walking away but it's also the most desperate way of pointing out that the needs of this family and the person with autism were not being met and I suppose one last hope that someone will listen.

 

We all have our limits and none of us know what we may or may not do if we are pushed too far.

 

Oracle

Edited by oracle

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I have to say I know nothing about this story at all so I'm not really going to address it too much.

 

The only point I would like to make is in regards to the daughter buying lots of designer stuff at her parents expense.

 

To say that you shouldn't give Aspies what they want is a ridiculous statement that shows a complete lack of understanding of the typical obsessions known to face a lot of Aspies. You can't deny an Aspie their obsessions, it is inhumane. Shall I take away your nightly ritual of watching Eastenders or stop you reading a book before you go to sleep? What you should do is monitor the obsessions and educate the person with Asperger Syndrome to the extent where they can manage to live their life and live with their obessions if they have the capabilities to do so. Where an obsession turns unhealthy to the point where it affects other people/the health of the individual then I believe preventative measures should be taken to ensure the well being of all.

 

However I have a serious problem accepting the fact that the shopping obsession this woman has is largely as a result of her having AS. An ASD maybe, but not AS. One of the traits of AS is a normal/above average form of intelligence. Another trait is strong moral and ethical values. There is no way in a million years that I could ever put the financial status of my parents at risk in order to further my own happiness. I worry about every penny that I have off them. I also couldn't justify spending my own money to that extent as I would be all too aware of the consequences of my actions as well as being aware of my actions at the time. I have enough intelligence that I know all too well right and wrong actions. My tendancy to think in black and white, yes and no, right and wrong would also prevent me from ever being able to get into this kind of financial situation. And if I ever did get into this situation then my parents would make damn sure that I knew about it straight away and they would not let me spend this kind of money or give me means to do so. I have lots of obsessions, somtimes they involve spending money to get that obsession. If I can afford to spend the money I will do but I will usually wrangle with myself over the decision for a few days or weeks first before I buy. If I want a computer game I'll know about that game sometimes months before I actually let myself buy the game.

 

There are certainly a lot of people "to blame" in this situation: the family, the people who gave the family the money ie the banks/credit cards etc, the people who did not support the family to the extent needed. But you know what, blaming anyone will do nothing but make the situation worse. What's done is done ultimately, I see little point arguing over whose fault it is.

 

Anyway, I don't mean to get people's backs up or anything but the shopping thing hit a nerve as it is, in my opinion, obviously nothing to do with AS. Ok I can't say that all Aspies will have the moral and ethical values that I have but it isn't called a "trait" for nothing. Also, in the same respect that I can't generalise Aspies so to other people can't generalise Aspies when they say "don't give Aspies what they want". We are not bad people for having obsessions, it's just the way we live our lives. I don't like it when the term Aspie is used to group those with AS together in a negative way as if we are a bad minority group just like the term Gays is applied to people who are gay in the same way.

 

My name is Emily Jones and I have Asperger Syndrome.

 

I am not an Aspie called Emily Jones.

 

There is a difference.

 

I hope that the family gets the support it needs and that both the daughter and mother get the help they need.

 

Emily (Badonkadonk)

xxx

 

I have to say that I've come back and read all of the articles posted on this thread and listened to the interview with Wendy Ainscow, the mother. I'm just sitting here in total frustration because I don't know how people can so inaccurately portray AS. I do not "suffer" with AS and I don't have an illness. I am sure lots of other people with AS would agree. Maybe, just maybe, if Lisa does have AS or an ASD then maybe she has OCD on top of this and, if she is responsible for wanting to spend the money, then this is the reason. It's really making me mad that they are presenting her as some mad woman and AS is the reason for the madness. Maybe she is mad, I don't know, but if she is it's certainly not caused by having AS. It might well be caused by being mistreated and misunderstood for so long and by not understanding/knowing about AS enough. I don't know how mentally sane I would be now if I hadn't found out/had my diagnosis until in another 10 years time. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm over assuming that traits listed as being common in those with AS doesn't mean that these traits would be present in most people with AS. But I would have thought that in order for a psych to dx her with AS she would have to at least ticked the right boxes. I can't believe that seemingly no one is standing up for AS in this, why aren't the NAS screaming from the rooftops about how unlikely and uncharacteristic of someone with AS this would be????? Why aren't leading voices of AS lending their opinions in this matter? I'm no genius, anyone who knows a dot about AS should think about the moral and ethical values and sense of right and wrong that we have. I mean for gods sake, it took me 2 years to eat off some plates that my sister used to bring her tea home on when she worked in a restaurant and she "accidentally forgot" to take back to work. I used to remind her every shift to take them back and was convinced we would get a visit from the police. I know, I know, it doesn't mean that this woman would be the same even if she does have AS. But I'm so convinced that these values and insistence of following the rules that I have is part of my AS because I was raised the same as my brother and sister and they don't have the same strong values that I have. I lack selfishness because of being Autistic, it's not in my nature in the same way I lack a competitive spirit. I just find it so hard to believe that someone who has AS could be so opposite to myself.

Edited by badonkadonk

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I feel very sorry for this woman. One cannot blame AS, the daughter or the parents for this tragedy, but the lack of support these people had to live with for over 30 years. Their daughter might have other mental health problems such as depression which was untreated.

It seems that she had a proper dx of AS, was sectioned, then she was de-sectioned. The parents lost their home and were old and tired

Listen tothe mother talking about the situation:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolavconsole/ukfs_ne...storyid=4021611

 

I hope that they get some help now.

 

Curra

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Obviously this is sad whichever way it appears - but I read a full double page interview with Lisa Ainscow (the daughter) in one of the papers on the Sunday before last (I think it was the Mail on Sunday) - in the interview she said that her mother had taken her to numerous psychologists (in fact I think it was an absurd number like 30!!) - none diagnosed her with Aspergers or ASD - she said that it's only now that she's from her mothers control that she feels she can say what happened - that it was her mother who had the obsession with shopping and would take her with her and shower her with gifts - she said that she loved her mother very much and was becoming very concerned about the televised drama being released as it would portray things from her mothers perspective. She also said that her father believed everything her mother said and that she was frightened to speak out against her.

 

I can't remember all the interview but the person who interviewed her said that she'd both interviewed and knew numerous people with ASD or Aspergers and in her comments noted that Lisa did not portray herself to her as having an ASD.

 

 

Take care,

Jb

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There was also a programme on this girl and it covered the same as was in the article that JB read. It also said her mother had her sectioned stating she was doing all sorts of things. While the young lady was sectioned she contacted a solicitor and got reassessment which confirmed there was nothing wrong with her. SShe has this in writing.

As previously mentioned the young lady said her mother kept taking her to psychatirsts demanding diagnoses yet none of them could give a diagnosis.

 

This young lady lives on her own in a small flat. The clothes and shoes she had did not represent a large amount of money. Her neighbour said she would see the young lady going up to the shop each day to do food shopping.

 

It appears there are too very different stories here but the press are just printing the mothers side. I can not remember is the programme said the mother had a problem with fabricating problems with the daughter.

 

Jen

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Hi all -

 

TBH I only know this situation from the info in the article itself, but it worries me that Aspergers/Autism is being targeted for the reason behind this family tragedy when there doesn't appear to be any evidence to back that assertion other than the mother's 'home' diagnosis... Even if the daughter IS autistic or asperger, why the assumption that that is the reason for he 'obsession' with designer clothes and spending and her ill treatment of her parents? There are THOUSANDS of people who are in debt up to their eyeballs, who would beg steal and cheat their parents to sustain that life style and who would show no remorse whatsoever. Are they ALL autistic??

Additionally, without wishing to trivialise the situation or ignore the very genuine distress and anguish of the parents, these are hardly typical responses, are they? To the best of my knowledge, people don't commit suicide because they are 'pushed' into it - they do so because they have mental health/social/physical problems that are not being appropriately responded to. Blame society, blame social services, blame the NHS by all means, but to lay the blame for that on one individual seems like the worst sort of cop out, no matter how much that individual may (or may not) have contributed to the whole picture...

 

If there's more to this story than I've seen, please accept my apologies, but based on what's written here, I think there's more than one injustice to be considered...

 

L&P

 

BD

 

I totally agree with what you're saying BD - again I've only read the interview with the daughter and there's another one in this weeks Closer (I like my trashy mags).

 

In the worst case with my son I could never take my own life and clearly leave the blame to him, what would that do to him emotionally? How could he ever overcome that? I am responsible for my own financial matters and as an adult if I wanted to rob my employer of thousands then I would take responsibility for my own actions not blame my child.

 

I can understand the desperation and lack of hope behind suicide attempts but I can't understand the clear aim to blame their daughter? I'm not explaining myself very well at all and hope I'm not offending anyone but there seems to be a lack of love behind the way they went about this that as a parent I can't understand.

 

Also daughter says she was afraid to speak out before (and repeatedly told the interviewer to say how she loves her mother) incase mother attempted suicide again - which she has. I get the feeling that there may be some emotional manipulation.

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I've just remembered in the review of why the daughter was sectioned apparently whoever had dealt with the enquiry didn't find any ASD etc and said the problems the girl had were as a result of 'catastrophic parenting'

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I was just going to delete what I wrote, because I felt embarassed worried of criticism, and anyway I feel a bit today because I got some help to organise stuff, a but I've read all the responses with interest.

 

THanks so much for yur kind response OXgirl, it is clear you have also felt terrible despair, it must have been awful for you to lose your father that way, and you are a very kind understanding person, thanks so much for your kind words, you take care of yourself too.

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I have followed this case for a while because the family are originally from the town where I live, so it has got quite a lot of coverage in the local press.

 

There are a number of things about this case that make me uncomfortable.

 

The parents were plainly in need of support which they didn't get. Their version of events is that her incessant demands for money for Shoes etc. drove her father to steal 30,000 from the post office that he ran.

 

After he had been caught, convicted and punished his reputation and livelihood were destroyed so he and his wife made a suicude pact, he died and she survived.

 

Having a child with special needs can be incredibly hard and overwhelming at times which we all know. But the parents responses are hard to defend.

 

The thing that makes me most uncomfortable is the fact that their daughter has been demonised as someone who is completely unreasonable in her behaviours to the point where she has caused her parents to attempt suicide. I suspect there is more to it than that.

 

The drama thing is very dodgy too. To turn these events into a piece of TV entertainment while the situation is still current, still raw, and yet to be fully resolved is unwarranted intrusion into private matters and inexcusable in my opinion, and very, very unfair to their daughter who deserves better.

 

Simon

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I have followed this case for a while because the family are originally from the town where I live, so it has got quite a lot of coverage in the local press.

 

There are a number of things about this case that make me uncomfortable.

 

The parents were plainly in need of support which they didn't get. Their version of events is that her incessant demands for money for Shoes etc. drove her father to steal 30,000 from the post office that he ran.

 

After he had been caught, convicted and punished his reputation and livelihood were destroyed so he and his wife made a suicude pact, he died and she survived.

 

Having a child with special needs can be incredibly hard and overwhelming at times which we all know. But the parents responses are hard to defend.

 

The thing that makes me most uncomfortable is the fact that their daughter has been demonised as someone who is completely unreasonable in her behaviours to the point where she has caused her parents to attempt suicide. I suspect there is more to it than that.

 

The drama thing is very dodgy too. To turn these events into a piece of TV entertainment while the situation is still current, still raw, and yet to be fully resolved is unwarranted intrusion into private matters and inexcusable in my opinion, and very, very unfair to their daughter who deserves better.

 

Simon

 

 

Yes, it seems like the more we read about this case the more strange and disturbing and becomes! :o

 

~ Mel ~

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I've just bought this week's Closer mag, and found an interview with Lisa inside. Seems to follow along the same lines as the Newspaper one. She's quoted as saying "Its all lies. I never threatened my parents. They intimidated me". I was intrigued and will be watching out for Mysterious Creatures when it is aired.

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This case is not what it seems.

 

The daughter lives independently of her mother.

 

The daughter is not autistic. She has been to court to prove this.

She is not obsessed with shopping. In fact, she lives quite modestly according to a recent interview with her.

She does not demand money from her parents, and never stood outside their door and shouted, and begged the neighbours for money if they declined to give her money. The mother completely invented this. Again, proven in court.

 

When the daughter was a child, the mother took her to all kinds of therapists and psychiatrists, trying to get some 'treatment' for her, and none of them could even find anything wrong (with the daughter). She spent a lot of money on this after NHS professionals refused to treat her because there was nothing wrong. It's been suggested that there was some kind of Munchausens by Proxy on the part of the mother, and the father was also taken in by it.

 

The daughter is now considered a vulnerable adult and has mental health problems, which she attributes mainly to her mother's behaviour toward her.

Edited by Tally

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If all of this has now been proven that it is the Mother and not the Daughter who has the problems, and reading through this thread it strongly suggests that this is the case, even though the Mothers Lawyer was still making statments about the system failing these parents in April of this year, so when was it proven? I am holding my hands up and admit that I am wrong - how are they going to be allowed to show the programme made about the family which, if the report that I have just read is correct, will portray this as being the system which has failed the parents? How will they get round that because it is being billed as a "powerful story will go a long way towards raising awareness of Asperger's syndrome." Well not if it is actually based around lies that have be proven what it will do is to once again raise the curtain on fabricating illness aka as MSBP and parents who have autistic children :crying: .

 

 

Oracle

Edited by oracle

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Why is the mother attempting suicide then? i agree that things may be more complicated than just the daughter having aspergers, if that is what it is and if her mother has a mental illness, she should be in even more need of support, i thought munchhaussen by proxy which was coined by professor roy meadow who was not even qualified in psychiatric illness but was paediatrician was proved not to exist as a conditon

Edited by florrie

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I think the mother has some severe mental health problems of her own, which might explain her repeated suicide attempts.

 

I don't know whether Munchhaussen by Proxy is considered a real condition any more, but it certainly appears that the mother in this case has fabricated illness in her child for some reason, and she is not the only parent to have done this.

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I don't know whether Munchhaussen by Proxy is considered a real condition any more, but it certainly appears that the mother in this case has fabricated illness in her child for some reason, and she is not the only parent to have done this.

 

 

It's a very, very tricky one, isn't it. Because many of us here have seen problems in our children and have come up against brick walls when other's won't or can't 'see' the problems or believe they exist. Many of us have had to fight to prove that our children's problems are not made up. I remember the time clearly when I KNEW something was not right with my son, but nobody, NOBODY would believe me, so I just don't know anymore! :huh:

 

~ Mel ~

Edited by oxgirl

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Why is the mother attempting suicide then? i agree that things may be more complicated than just the daughter having aspergers, if that is what it is and if her mother has a mental illness, she should be in even more need of support, i thought munchhaussen by proxy which was coined by professor roy meadow who was not even qualified in psychiatric illness but was paediatrician was proved not to exist as a conditon

 

Munchausen's by proxy does exist as a medical condition or at least as a symptom of a personality disorder. Beverley Allitt allegedly has it. I don't think Professor Meadows 'invented' it as such but diagnosed it incorrectly in the cases of the mothers accused of killing their babies. The media hype that followed those cases seemed to suggest MBP doesn't exist which was incorrect reporting and harmful to those children whose carers have MBP

 

Lx

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:wacko::wacko::wacko::wacko::wacko:

 

I have read and re-read this thread today...............

 

Whatever way you view it............... Mental illness is a cruel disability :(

 

I hope they all find some peace - however that may be.

 

:wacko::(

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I think the 'new' term for MSBP is Fabricating Illness. Some parents do this to draw attention to themselves and are usually experts on their chosen subject. If it sounds as if I know what I am talking about then maybe that is because I have encountered this and it is very scary and very convincing. So I don't ever believe that parents are beyond fabricating things to meet their own needs. But I would hope that this would not go un-noticed for years and years as it has done in this case.

 

Now for a public stoning. I know lots of adults with ASD now and I have to say that very few of them indeed have anything nice to say about their parents. No matter what their parents did or did not do, they did not do it right on in their child's best interest according to their children. I came to this conclusion a couple of years ago now and I also have an adult son myself I can see how this can become an issue. This is purely a personal observation and can only be based on my own experiences and posts I have read here and on other forums made by adults with ASD. Now before the stones are put down and replaced with heavy duty rifles I do know some adults who have nothing but praise for their parents, but those who tell a different story are greatly out numbered by those who feel that their parents have a lot to answer for. I have thought for a long while that we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. This proves nothing at all but it does give me something to ponder.

 

Oracle

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well all i wanted to say was florrie, i am sending you a big hug and some positive vibes. when things get so bad that you feel you have nowhere to turn, its such a struggle to find even one thing to hold onto to keep you going. but like you say you have to go on for your child, remember it takes courage and strength to keep on going. you are stronger than you know.

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Hey guys,

 

For anyone who is interested, here are two more links to browse.

 

Daily Mail Article - interview with Lisa

 

Article reporting reivew into standard of care received

 

Emily

xxx

 

isnt it amazing how people on here demonize and pillory the daily mail and its readers, EXCEPT when theyread something that they want to use to "suck up" to others, who should know better about only putting one side of the argument. everyone here seems to take the daughters word as gospel and the mother as the one in the wrong, but how many of you have been accused of over emotional, msbp, overinvolved, bad parents and so on ad nausium, and yet still fought on that your child has "SOMETHING WRONG". ever thought that these parents had been doing the same all their lives and couldnt stand it anymore and that they felt that by them not being there then the daughter whom they both loved would get the help she needed.

how easy is it to take one side over the other, make one the good guy and one the bad. what youve all implied, but not had the courage to come right out and say is the mother should have believed everyone wh said there was nothing wrong, they were the professionals. well when you say that peeps especially all of you who are still fighting for your child when ewo's, ed pshyc's, ss, school et al have said no, go look in the mirror before you say another word because those poor parents could just be you

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Now for a public stoning. I know lots of adults with ASD now and I have to say that very few of them indeed have anything nice to say about their parents. No matter what their parents did or did not do, they did not do it right on in their child's best interest according to their children. I came to this conclusion a couple of years ago now and I also have an adult son myself I can see how this can become an issue. This is purely a personal observation and can only be based on my own experiences and posts I have read here and on other forums made by adults with ASD. Now before the stones are put down and replaced with heavy duty rifles I do know some adults who have nothing but praise for their parents, but those who tell a different story are greatly out numbered by those who feel that their parents have a lot to answer for. I have thought for a long while that we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. This proves nothing at all but it does give me something to ponder.

 

Oracle

 

On this one I do agree - I just think you have to remove the 'ASD' from the equation and type 'young adult'... There's a fairly famous poem about it:

 

They **** you up, your mum and dad,

They don't mean to, they just do......

 

Think 'Kevin & Perry' too - stereotypes undoubtedly - but we laugh because the stereotypes are so recognisable.

 

I have no idea what the 'truth' is in this particular case; my initial post was made purely to highlight that there are two sides to every story, which has been amply demonstrated by subsequent posts, but FWIW the 'official' statistics on child abuse are 1 in 8 (or they were a few years ago when I last researched it), and this figure is significantly higher - for all sorts of very complex reasons - where disability is a factor. Sadly, the parents do not always know best, and as you rightly said MSBP - regardless of any issues about over use / pigeonholing - is a very real condition that does at least need to be considered in any holistic assessment.

 

L&P

 

BD

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Hi Mrs P

 

To be honest I can't say that I feel either party is 'right' (if you know what I mean). I remember reading the original articles together with the more recent ones which involved the daughter and it does appear a very strange scenario. I think it's sad whichever way it is because one or both have not had the support they needed.

 

From a personal experience I became paranoid in thinking many a time that the Paed who looked after my daughter thought I had Munchausen's.

 

Take care,

Jb

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Sorry Mrs P, I'm confused. Who is only putting one side of the argument and who is sucking up and to who? Also not sure of who is demonizing Daily Mail readers.......I've found this thread really interesting, although I've possibly missed some vital points, because I don't understand your post. Think I'll go back for a re-read.....I'm intrigued by it all, and wouldn't like to comment on if the parents or the daughter are being truthful, but find both their stories worth merit and consideration. Take care

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On this one I do agree - I just think you have to remove the 'ASD' from the equation and type 'young adult'... There's a fairly famous poem about it:

 

Actually most of the adults that I know with ASD are aged 30 to late 50's and every rotten thing that ever happened to them was brought about by their parents. There is only one exception in my circle and my friends, same age as me late 40's, has a huge love and respect for his Mum but not his Dad,

 

I have encountered fabrication and I know that it does happen but it is very very rare and sadly along with jb I have sat in a Consulting Room where my husband and I were utterly convinced that we were being observed for Munchausen's, and even though I now believe that there are some parents who do fabricate I am still a staunch Campaigner to get rid of this stigma that is following parents who have ASD children around. An occassional parent does not make us all candidates for MSBP/Fabricating Illness call it what you will.

 

Oracle

Edited by oracle

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