Despondent about PECs

[moira199]

Dear All,

 

We have started PECS but have already hit the stumbling block that DS is keen to get the goodie ( chocolate or banana) but not so keen as to keep trying while being taught to exchange the card. The therapist seems quite inexperienced too which does not help ! Has anyone else had this problem and did you persevere ?

 

 

I suppose it is a case of wanting too much too soon - not realistic I know but is there life without PECs?

 

 

Moira

[claire33]

sorry to sound so silly but what is PECS?????

[MichelleW]

I believe PECS is the picture exchange system for non verbal children, so they can communicate their needs etc. by handing the revelevent card to an adult in exchange for the item. I'm not sure if this is to reduce frustration, and is an alternative to sign language. I'm also not sure whether it helps with developing speech.

[Lynden]

Hi Moira

 

I dont know if its possible for you to do, but I've just been on the two day training course and it was fantastic - probably the best course of any course I've been on, not just those relating to Logan.

 

I feel so much more able to tackle PECS and keep on taking it through for as long as Logan needs it. Our SALT is really good at it too, but she was keen on having me go to the course as it gives you so much more understanding.

 

Its not cheap but there are various ways to get help with funding. The other thing they (Pyramid) do is offer home/school consultations which I think we will do a little further down the line so I can be sure that my family etc are all on the same playing field in helping him communicate.

 

What I would say, is that if he's not keen to exchange the card for the goodies then maybe its not the right reinforcer to be using? We used crisps initially with Logan because we knew he'd do whatever he had to do to get it - and he did.

 

If you have any questions feel free to email me - I'm no expert but the course is fresh in my mind as I just did it this Thurs/Fri.

 

Lynne x

[Bullet]

Tom's SALT mentioned PECS might work for him if he wanted something but he couldn't see it. Basically if he wants a drink or some food at home and he's in the kitchen or somewhere he knows where the food will be, he'll drag me over to it and put my hand on the item. If he doesn't know where the food or drink might be he just doesn't bother and I don't know if it's because he's not hungry or because he doesn't know how to ask. He can't ask verbally for things yet, even saying something like "juice". He's picking up Makaton well so I'd prefer him to be able to sign, but it does appear at this stage then if it's out of sight then it's out of mind with him so maybe the PECS cards would help him ask for things.

If you think about it PECS do require a certain level of understanding. The child has to understand first what the picture represents. Then they have to understand it can be exchanged for the real object. Finally, they have to know that in order for the exchange to be made they have to go to another person who will give them the desired item.

[something vague]

Hi Moira,

 

How long have you been doing PECS for. It sounds like your son is at the very first stage. When he first began did someone stand /sit behind him and prompt him (non verbal just physically moving his hand). It sounds like he needs lots more practice at PECs with a physical prompter to help him understand to reach for the symbol rather than the food. This stage is very difficult for some to master as their natural reaction is to reach for food offered and it can be very frustrating to have to learn something different. Ideally, until your son has mastered this stage and has an understanding there should be 2 people available to help him through the process.

 

I hope that helps.

 

SV

[moira199]

Many thanks for all the kind replies. I do feel quite despairing at times ( all the time! ) The only positive sign of intereaction we get is that he nearly always looks up when he points to something in his book and waits with eye contact until the word is said. I keep thinking he must have some interest in language and the pointing is communicative but nothing else is all that encouraging in terms of getting communication going.

 

 

Does anyone think it would be worthwhile making up a book of pictures of favourite items and giving him one if he points at it - even if at first it is not because he wants the item. Could this be another way to get him to learn to communicate his needs ?

 

 

Many many thanks to one and all

[elun1]

Hi Moira I don't know if you got my email as I haven't sent that many and not really sure what I'm doin!

My ds was just like that at that age and has never lost his interest in books. He too used to do exactly what you're describing and I remember describing it to the paed who diagnosed him. 2 yrs on there have been many developments, I know that's of little comfort now but he will learn to communicate: it's finding the way that's right for him. PECS can be infuriatingly slow at the very start - you really do need someone to help you with the physical prompting in the early stages. I really found the Hanen book 'More than Words' fab as well at the beginning - we still use it now.

Sorry but must go as ds has horrible sick bug and dh has helpfully informed me that the rugby starts soon and 'where is his England Top?'!!! Men!!

Take care love Elun <'>

[Lynden]

Hi again

 

Re the picture pointing - the main aim with PECS at the stage you are at is getting him to initiate the request, not to recognise the picture. Phases 1 and 2 are all about them learning to initiate communication and to ask for things and you definitely need two people to help them by prompting physically if needed - you shouldn't talk at all during the process till they had over the card requesting the item - then you can talk/praise. Then once that is mastered only then do you move on to teaching them that whats on the picture matches the object they want (although obviously some kids will grasp that immediately anyways).

 

Logan is 3 and completely non verbal, with no communicative gesturing either, he's never pointed at anything or taken us to what he wants but we are getting promising signs with PECS but its not going to be a quick process, it could take months or possibly years but it will be worth it.

 

Also agree with Elun that the Hanen More than Words book is excellent too.

 

Lynne x

[something vague]

Hi Moira,

 

Lynne has put into words perfectly what I was trying to say. PECS does take time and teamwork. In the beginning the work is done for the pupil through physical prompts. These prompts should not stop until the pupil has shown a reliable understanding of the process and is successfully handing over a symbol without first trying to reach for reward. PECS is brilliant for many people but the first stages are crucial and need to be taught consistantly over a long period of time.

 

Your idea of a book is a good one and would fit in with your son's interests but eventually may become combersome as your sons vocabulary and requests grow. It would also confuse issues if he is being taught PECS aswell. Maybe continue to use the books for teaching the spoken word, occasionally giving him the solid objects to reinforce that pictures can stand for the real thing - this will help him to understand the use of symbols/pictures in PECS.

 

I would persevere with PECS, it is a well thought out system that gets easier once your child has begun to understand the process.

 

Good Luck,

 

SV

[moira199]

Thanks again for all the great replies. It is so nice to hear from others who have struggled with the same issues and come out the other end with something tangible to write about !

[shortie]

I would definately carry on and i also recommend Hanens "More than words"manual!! I did the actual course back in january for my DD,and its great,you can get it on amazon for about �32,i know its alot but i covers alot of things!At the time she was only using hand gestures but the improvment over the 13wk course was great and the book was the best thing to keep refering back too!!DD can now say phrases of 3-4words to let me know what she wants but also uses pecs and makaton!!so keep your chin up,it can get better!!!

[katkin]

Just a quick note to add that pecs and makaton do not hinder expressive speech. In fact as the language is kept simple and clear can aid expressive speech development. Hanen is good as it focuses on the child taking the lead in communication and ties in well with pecs as that is about the child initiating the conversation too. Pecs does take time for the child to get into but once it works it really does. It does need two people in the early stages. I seem to remember that should be aiming for up to 5o exchanges a day. Love Kat