Jump to content
Cariad

ASD and aggression

Recommended Posts

How many of you have children with ASD and aggression or behavioural problems?

 

I'm asking this as my DS has this, is it a part of being autistic or a seperate issue do you think?

 

I'm asking this as i got off the phone with the SENCO from the high school the LEA want to put him in, she said they can't have him there as he is aggressive towards adults and children. Would ans ASD unit in a mainsteam highschool be able to handle this do you reckon?

 

Sorry about so many posts, it's just all my worries are rushing out on this forum, you all are so helpful!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i asked one of ellie's psychiatrists about her agression and she said it was due to the autism, but she also said that cos el is adhd she has less impulse control so that was also a factor. things got very bad and last september el was prescribed risperdal which has helped a lot!

 

i think it depends on the individual schools behaviour policy how understanding they would be it would be worth talking to them to see where they stand. >:D<<'>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Cariad,

 

My son has agression/behaviour problems. My feeling is that it's all a part of his AS, in that the behaviour problems are the result of his lack of social skills and the agression the result of frustration and stress.

 

Alex was in a mainstream school, then an ASD unit attached to a mainstream. He had a bad time in both situations. It wasn't until he was taught in small groups out of the education setting that the agression and behaviour problems changed dramatically :thumbs: . He's 17 now, nearly 6ft :wub: and thankfully so much calmer. The amount of times he loses it now are few and far between. Maturity has played a part too.

 

Annie

xx

Edited by annie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

 

My son is 5 and has although is stated as being 'mild' on the autistic spectrum, he has massive behavioural problems. He can be extremely aggressive, hostile, violent, etc. I have no doubt that this is part of his condition. He can lose control and hit me, then after rolling around the floor, throwing things, sobbing, screaming, etc for 30 minutes, act like nothing has happened. That used to completely baffle me. I read the book 'The curious incident of the dog' (or something along those lines). I would thoroughly recommend this book. It gave me a real insight into how Robert may view things. Christopher is a teenager and he talks about how one incident in which he attached his father. The next things he recalls was sitting on the floor and looking at his father with a ###### lip and ripped shirt, yet he has no memory of what happened in between. I genuinely believe that Robert is the same.

 

In terms of schooling, it's a difficult one. I feel that my son is kind of in the twilight zone - doesn't quite fit in to mainstream, yet doesn't quite fit in the special. I'm aware that there are schools that aren't specialist ASD schools, but are schools for kids with emotional, social and behavioural problems. I went to visit one in Edinburgh and I have to say that I was so impressed. I asked lots of questions (all of which were answered), I saw kids having meltdowns and saw how the staff reacted, etc. Although they weren't ASD specialists, they were knowledgeable. Tricky one, because once my son got diagnosed, a place was no longer open to us because it came under someone else's remit. Yet, I felt strongly that they were far better equipped to meet my son's needs in lots of way. It's a very individual thing. I guess you could contact your son's EP and consultant (if they're helpful) and see what they recommend.

 

Best wishes.

 

Caroline.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep my son is VERY violent and i do think it is part of autism & PDA, he can hit me say sorry ever so quick then just as fast hit me again! (definately PDA behaviour) His violence can be due to being touched or saying something to him he doesnt want to hear, along with transitions (he doesnt cope with transitions at all). Basically he is like a time bomb day in & out thats T and this has been my main worry as i feel if he doesnt stop being this violent what happens when he is big enough to knock me out or anyone else for that matter?

 

I am awaiting the next step as we have just received the dx last week so waiting for it in writing and hopefully something can be done to help curb it, but as i understand PDA more the violence may always be there :(

 

Bambi x

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It certainly seems to go hand in hand. Often because of some problem with communication. Certainly at the special school most agressive situations occured because of misunderstandings. Also sometimes it is because they like predictable responses. One thing people respond predictably towards is agression. A telling off can seem comforting to an autistic youngster because it is a predictable responce. A few of the books I have read talk about this sort of thing. If you haven't read their books look up Tony Attwood and Rita Jordan. Both have a lot of good interesting books. I'm pleased the head at the special school recommended them to me. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My son can be very violent and had attacked myself and my daughter so many times I have lost count. He has come at me with knives, scissors and a hammer, plus the usual kicks, punches, slaps, scratches etc. He has a diagnosis of Aspergers plus a whole host of other stuff. I have been told the violence and complete lack of emotional control are down to his AS plus general lack of impulse control.

 

He's been on Risperidone now for a few weeks and it has made a HUGE difference. He is much clamer in general, 'loses' it far less and when he does it is no where near as bad.

 

I'm having the same trouble finding a school for him. He's been out of school now for 7 weeks and all of the schools I have contacted are unwilling to take him because of the agression plus the fact that he has mental health problems. My last hope now lies with an out of town NAS school.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, totally. J's extremely aggressive when he gets out of control due to stress and can be very violent. He's pulled me off chairs before (then thrown said chair across the room), slammed me up against the wall with such force that pictures have fallen off, trashed his room (several times), most recent example involved snapping a staircase spindle off the banister and brandishing it at me as a sword. And he's only 8.

 

Since October I've been doing some anger management work with J and he's come on a treat, these incidents becoming increasingly rare. He has a 5-point chart showing the different levels of anger, and what he (and I) can do to help at each level. He helped devise it with me, on a Star Wars theme, and although it took a lot of effort to get it working he'll now consult it after a meltdown and can point out where he went wrong, what he could have done differently etc. He can now understand the different levels and see a pattern emerging (though as yet he has difficulty regaining control once he's lost it, but it's early days). It's one of our most valuable tools.

 

We've made the most progress since we faced the anger head-on and admitted to it. I don't think you can expect a child to be able to work on aggression problems if they don't understand and acknowledge they are present. I've talked to J a lot about his anger, how it affects him and others, how it will affect him in the future and why we need to help him manage it. He can now tell me he is angry and that means we can head off the aggressive outbursts before they go too far. I think he's only had three proper meltdowns now since before Christmas.

 

Karen

x

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not my son (ASD), he is 3.5 and very sweet natured and wouldn't hurt a fly. His teachers love him and the only meltdowns happen when you disrupt his routine without warning. But I think he is the exception to the rule to be honest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My son can be very aggressive and violent as well, though he also has a dx of oppostional defiant disorder, so I guess that'll make it a lot worse. He is on respirodone which has made a huge difference, though it can still be quite tough.

Most of his aggression comes when things don't go the way HE wants them to go, and from his totally self-centered point of view he can simply not understand that other people have needs and wants as well, and he feels that whatever anyone does, it is in order to spite him (eg, I didn't allow him an icecream a while ago when we stopped for petrol, someone came out of the shop eating one and he felt that person did it just to upset him).

School is a huge stress factor, though since he has full-time 1:1, he has become a lot easier to handle. Before that, school couldn't cope with him and I was told it was better if I kept him home for a while........ Fortunately this actually helped a lot in obtaining his statement and the help he is now getting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My son has huge behavioural problems and can be very violent.

 

Our ASD liasion teacher described him as being in a 'constant heightened defensive state' which means that it takes very little to tip him over the edge.

 

On an recent Early Bird course we learnt that there are so many states that we are usually in

 

Coma

Asleep

Normal Waking State

Stressed

Full Blown Panic / Meltdown

 

They said that were are usually in a normal state, quite happy etc - something happens and that can make us stressed. Whereas our ASD children are usually in a constant state of 'Stressed' due to everyday living so if that one thing happens to them they go straight into full blown panic.

 

Does that make sense? I found that way of looking at G very helpful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hi cariad

my son who is coming up for 15 is very aggressive both physically and verbally. We all struggle and last week was particularly bad. It really gets the whole family down and I worry about the future as he is now taller than me. On the bad days I wonder if he should continue living with us. We have had alot of good support form our local hospital but it doesn't feel enough when he's losing it. I feel gulity talking about him in such a negative way as he also has a very kind side and I realise that his aspergers doesn't always allow him to react in a way I would wish just because we have dissagreed on something....or that I have answered NO to his wishes. Last week I really felt it would be better for all of us if he didn't live with us anymore and it seems as though I am not alone from reading your posting and the replies. I just wonder how long we are all mean't to put up with things if my son doesn't change...

 

luv

jessie :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To balance the general tone of the thread, the NAS says that there is no evidence linking Autism/AS with aggression. There is even plenty of evidence of Autistics of any age going to any lengths to avoid stress and lash out as 'last straw' reactions when every reasonable means they could think of was exhausted.

 

I've been called aggressive and described as having 'a history of violence', I don't agree with either but it never mattered because I was too young to object to people saying these things about me and give my version of events.

 

A psychiatrist should be kept as far as possible from any Autistic after they've put any aggressive episode as being caused by Autism, unless they can prove it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How many of you have children with ASD and aggression or behavioural problems?

IMHO these are two separate things. A behavioural problem in ASDs can often occur through misunderstandings or simply inattention/impulsivity, or even certain stims (esp. vocal things or touching or sniffing people), and in such cases it is usually possible to adapt the environment and slowly teach less intrusive behaviours (and teach that certain stims are inappropriate in public for example).

 

The child or adult is often not aware of their behaviour being a problem, or is unaware that they are even doing this behaviour. Of course there are many types of such problems that are 'the same' in ASDs and NTs (e.g. misbehaviour because it gets you what you want or as a rebellion etc.) but there is a great difference in how they can be helped.

 

Aggression in ASDs on the other hand, while often also linked to environmental triggers (especially overload etc.), is frequently something that is either linked with signs of childhood Bipolar (the NAS reckons 30-40% or so of kids on the Spectrum have these signs), which is a whole different animal and responds to a completely different type of treatment.

 

I know you probably didn't mean it that way but these are two very different sets of behaviours and shouldn't be used interchangeably and labelled as being similar.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

mmmm....one incident i was thinking of was when el punched her 3 year old cousin in the face because he was in her room....i mentioned it to the psych and they said that it was probably due to the fact that he was in her space..... :unsure:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hi cariad

my son who is coming up for 15 is very aggressive both physically and verbally. We all struggle and last week was particularly bad. It really gets the whole family down and I worry about the future as he is now taller than me. On the bad days I wonder if he should continue living with us. We have had alot of good support form our local hospital but it doesn't feel enough when he's losing it. I feel gulity talking about him in such a negative way as he also has a very kind side and I realise that his aspergers doesn't always allow him to react in a way I would wish just because we have dissagreed on something....or that I have answered NO to his wishes. Last week I really felt it would be better for all of us if he didn't live with us anymore and it seems as though I am not alone from reading your posting and the replies. I just wonder how long we are all mean't to put up with things if my son doesn't change...

 

luv

jessie :(

Oh Jessie, I sooooooooo feel the same. If I had had a a gun in my hand yesterday I would have shot him, honest. Right now I am sitting here crying and wondering what would happen if I rang SS and told them to take him away or else. But I can't, I just love him too much. I am losing my other two children (due to me not being available for them most of the time), and I feel I am going to end up having to choose between my AS son (with a life of abuse and loneliness) or my other two boys and enjoy a normal life.... :crying::crying::crying::crying::crying::crying::crying::crying::crying::crying:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just got DS into school and he is tearful and refusing to do work and lashing out, he was upset will start another thread for that as i'nm so angry!.

 

His teacher said it isn't his ADHD as others in the class have ADHD and don't act like this!, also the ADHD kids haven't got ASD.

 

So ASD kids with ADHD don't lash out and get aggressive???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the basic laws of physics and psychology - for any sort of action there will be a.........reaction!

 

Autism isn't an 'Action', but it is a variable which will have an effect on the reaction...

 

There will always be a 'trigger', be it an internal impulse (this is often the case with AS/ADHD) or an outside event, and often the responses to those triggers will be 'inappropriate' (which in itself is a completely objective term, depending on the make up of the audience judging the behaviour!), but autism of itself is not a trigger, it's a variable.

 

The real difficulty is that the two things are so intertwined it sometimes becomes impossible to seperate them out. If you CAN identify and remove the trigger - brilliant! If you can't, and the reactions to them are seriously impacting on the person themselves or on others, you have to intervene accordingly.

 

In most cases the situation will get better with time - because the person will gain social/conceptual understanding and/or become less sensitive to the triggers by repeated exposure. The 'reactions' haven't stopped - but the variables have changed.

 

 

 

Blimey! I've got a headache now :wacko::wacko::lol::lol::lol:

 

 

 

L&P

 

BD :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My son (AS Add Odd) has got repeatedly aggressive verbally,is constantly threatening to beat me up. yesterday he attacked me physically for the first time. He has been getting worse and worse about getting ready for school-40 min showers has missed school been late i dont know how many times. He was simply asked was he going to school (he had been getting ready for 2 hours and had missed his lift. He said my harassment of him was stopping him from getting ready even though I had not spoken to him until then) I insisted that I had not delayed him and was attacked. I think when reality faces kids with AS they sometimes react like a cornered rat. He chose to blame me on his inability to get ready rather than accept that he needed to hurry up. he has left me v upset yet he is fine. He believes that I was shouting at him even though I was not. He shouted every obsenity at me and attacked me because I said something he didn't want to hear. He attends a clinic who are non contactable of course

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Feeling things are quite hopeless. My son is so stressed that he cant listen to anyone. He wont allow anyone to help him. Need help and dont know what to do. Please direct me to any useful links

Alli

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that aggression is very much connected to overload. But it's somtimes quite difficult to see its cause. Our son (3) sometimes gets aggressive, when someone enters the room barefooted instead of wearing socks :blink: .

I've read somewhere that everyone can get into a critical situation where he sees only two choices: flee or attack. When both choices are impossible (e.g. for soldiers in trenches in a war), people get traumatized (leading to PTSD). Very often, they cannot remember the situation!

 

Consequently, I would watch out for potential causes of overload and try to avoid them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sorry to hear about you morning Alli. I could relate to everything you said. It's so hard when they have episodes like this. My son has been very difficult and he has lashed out at me several times and also at my husband but has recently shown signs of trying to control himself (not verbally though). We have had a lot of input from our local hospital which has helped and the main thing we have worked on is trying to make him more responsible for his actions as well as tring to get him to recognise that he is going to lose it. Despite all of the input he still struggles but at least we have something to keep working on even although he hates and seldom allows us to discuss it with h im.

 

good luck with the clinic and I HOPE TOMORROW is better for you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Jessie

He has refused to apologise and is keeping out of the house a lot. Spoke to Psy and all he could suggest was calling police. No help with how to improve things etc.

Alli

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My lad is 13 (AS) and is totally non-aggressive. He doesn't use verbal abuse, don't think he would know how, and has never used a swear word! :blink: The worst insult he has ever used is 'stupid' (usually directed at our cat, who he isn't fond of).

The other day he was drying his hair and, on an impulse, directed the hair dryer at our cat. He was immediately full of remorse and came straight to tell me what he had done. He was mortified with himself and almost in tears, kept saying he didn't know why he'd done it and he felt silly. I can't imagine him ever using violence, his sense of doing what is 'right' is so rigid.

So sorry for the people who are going through this. >:D<<'> >:D<<'>

 

~ Mel ~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can identify with several of you. My son, 13 with Aspergers (originally diagnosed with ADHD), can be aggressive and voilent, its a lot less frequent that it used to be, thank goodness, but one major stress in our life is missing at the moment, and thats school! (he's been at home since an exclusion 2 years ago whilst we wait for a placement) He does fly off at the slightest thing but as has been mentioned, we basically ignore him and keep very calm and quiet and help him to calm down quicker. He is able to talk about it later but says he feels no guilt and really isnt interested in apologising or making anything better, in fact its usually always someone else's fault.

 

his worst point was when he was at a Pupil Referral Unit for kids with EBD, he was only there for four weeks but it was a complete nightmare for about four months, and I have no idea how we got through it. His behaviour was beyond control, and I would have to sit outside his door listening to him trashing his room and anything of anyone else's he could get his hands on, and also trying to keep him from jumping out the window or deciding to kill his sister. One evening I called the out of hours social services number, and they were so helpful - not - and advised me to call the police to get him taken away! I didnt do that.

 

I'm told that his aggression stems from anxiety, and his very strong fight or flight instinct. If he cant get away he will kick out. he has been prescribed valium for emergencies, but we've not used it. Serious incidents have been few and far between but as a result the LEA view him as a monster who cannot be near other children at the moment. If only they would listen to me and his doctors when we explain where this aggression comes from, Seems so simple, in theory, to calm the anxiety, and then you wont see the agression, or at least not to the same extreme.

 

sorry for rambling

Edited by scrappybunny

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My lad is 13 (AS) and is totally non-aggressive. He doesn't use verbal abuse, don't think he would know how, and has never used a swear word! :blink: The worst insult he has ever used is 'stupid' (usually directed at our cat, who he isn't fond of).

The other day he was drying his hair and, on an impulse, directed the hair dryer at our cat. He was immediately full of remorse and came straight to tell me what he had done. He was mortified with himself and almost in tears, kept saying he didn't know why he'd done it and he felt silly. I can't imagine him ever using violence, his sense of doing what is 'right' is so rigid.

Bless, I was like that most of the time but I did bite a kid in kindergarten (he did try to bite me first!) once, and had the occasional meltdown where I "came to" with toys everywhere and no idea what happened. Very rare though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have appointment with Psy soon. What if anything should I be asking him? So stressed can't think straight. Any links would be appreciated

Thanks Alli

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alli, sorry to hear all what you have been going through and that you are feeling so stressed, afraid I don't have any advice, links etc but I am sure someone else here will. Just wanted you to know I am thinking of you.

Clare x >:D<<'> >:D<<'> >:D<<'>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sorry things stil not going well Alli. Things are pretty much the same as son lashed out at me three times tonight because I said he couldn't go to a party and stay overnight with someone from his school who has never even been in our house and who also lives 15 miles away. ....I am not being unreasonable here , am I?

 

 

Good luck with the psy. I am sure he will ask you what you think triggers the episodes etc...We have been advised to restrain our son but he is much taller than me now and geting bit strong for husband as well. I know sometimes it is the reight thing but I hate the idea of retraining a child. We have also been advised to ignore and make him look after himself with intent of making him more responsible for his own actions eg if he doesn't cook or wash then no food or clean clothes. This has worked in the past and will be used tomorrow.

 

good luck alli

 

just wanted to let you know \i'm thinking of you and that you are not alone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for all your comments it really helps.

The triggers are so unexpected. e.g. Do you have homework? (Not a big deal in this house) Please don't swear in front of 5 year old. Where are you going?

Can't really post properly too stressed will do so when I'm more together.

 

Thanks again jessie and Clare

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can only really say what the others have said.

 

It does seem to be the same for us - it is all much worse when she doesn't understand something, becomes frustrated, anxious/stressed about anything - also when she's not well.

 

The consult. told us pretty much the same that it's all linked and her 'limited understanding' is really the deep root of most of it.

 

Take care,

Jb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...