Fairplay For All

[Tilly]

I know most parents find it nigh on possible to make their children feel like everyone is getting a fair deal amongst the family dynamics, but when one of the siblings have an ASD it seems that in our household its quite often the typically developed child has to forfeit something. e.g. Leave a venue early, or totally avoid certain places, have no spontaniety or even a decent nights sleep.

The major issue in our house at the moment is on getting a dog. Our older daughter who is only 14 mos older than our dd has wanted a dog for many years now but hasn't been able to have one because dd is scared witless. Then dd decide she too wanted a dog so as a family we chose to get one - they're not ready yet but will be very soon. My older daughter has been very excited about this, when out of the blue our dd has become extremely upset and very tearful about not wanting a dog . Now my older dd looked at me and said "Please don't say that we aren't getting one now."

I've spoke to my dd who is worried that it may bite her, scratch her - in fact I've told her not speak about dogs anymore today, she's got my mind totally frazzled.

Any suggestions would be gratefully received, should I force dd to face some of her demons or upset my eldest daughter again - I feel she had to grow up really quick bless her.

Some birthday this turned out to be.

tilly

[David Matthew Baker]

Do you have a decent sized garden? Or somewhere the dog could live. You could always do your best to keep the dog away from DD and hence keep the peace with both. Once DD has got the idea of it been around she might get to accept it. Your just going to need to find something that has a very gentle temprement. Having said that a puppy could be very unpredictable so you might be better with an older dog. Problem then would be getting one that is well trained.

[Gardenia]

I've two boys, my youngest having the dx and often feel that my eldest has had to grow up quickly too, and I've often heard myself, saying "Just let him have it" or "give him a turn" just to keep the peace. it justs seems easier as sometimes there is no reasoning with my youngest and most the time easier than a complete meltdown On the issue of a dog and your dd being anxious about one, who do you think will benefit the most, or be upset the most. In our house our eldest seems to very rarely ask for anything, whereas the youngest demands something daily or is upset about something on a very regular basis.

sorry I'm not much help I just thought I'd let you know that you are not alone.

Gardenia

[Bagpuss]

Really feel for you Tilly, as we face similar situations regularly. Our eldest dd is a real animal lover, and adores anything four legged. Our youngest dd has a complete lack of interest in animals, and is very scared of dogs. We've had dogs in the past before youngest dd was born, and had to re-home one we bought after her birth, when she was a toddler, due to the complete mayhem which resulted from her fear. We tried again when she was a little older, and bought a toy yorkie terrier, feeling it was so tiny she wouldn't mind......wrong! We had to rehome that one to. We now stick to animals like hamsters, fish, etc, which can be kept confined, but eldest dd can still have a pet. Maybe your dd would compromise and accept another pet...a rabbit, a guinea pig, etc? It is so hard, and we always tend to put our youngest dd's needs first, which I don't think is always appropriate, and can leave us feeling we are letting our eldest two down. We try to do our best, and thats all we can do. Is there anyway your dd who is scared could spend some time with a dog....anyone friends or family have one? Maybe she could overcome her fear. Hope you do find a solution, take care <'>

[Lynden]

Oh thats such a hard one. My little girl actually said to a friend with a tear running down her face 'My Mummy always has to leave with Logan is sad'. We were at an aquarium during the dive show and they encouraged the audience to cheer - freaking Logan out. I felt so bad, because its true, she often has to miss out. Also litlte things like she wanted a TV in her room (something I dont like at all - TVs in kids rooms) and was told no, yet Logan has one so that I can at least get some respite at night when he wakes (he'll sit and watch Thomas).

 

We do make an effort to try and do things with Leona though, and have special times just for her. Getting the balance is so hard though.

 

With a pet it must be a nightmare. I can totally see your eldest DDs point of view - I've always had pets, but I remember being given a kitten as a gift and I had to give it back because my Mum disliked cats and I was devastated and didn't talk to her for a week (NOT what you want to hear I know, but just wanted to give it from her perspective iyswim).

 

Would your eldest DD accept another pet? Do you think your youngest would come round? I actually think once she has a dog in the house it may help her overcome her fears.

 

Very hard - good luck in working it out - I think its something us parents of ASD kids will always have to battle with.

 

Lynne x

[David Matthew Baker]

One of the books I own talks about desensitizing people with ASD to dogs. I'll try and find which book it is and write up the relatvent bit of information for you. Now the problem will be tracking down which one. I've read rather a lot lately.

 

Found it. It is in Dr Rita Jordan's Autism with Severe Learning Difficulties:

 

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A fifteen-year-old young man with autism and sld (Brian) had a very severe fear of dogs. Teachers had coped with this by trying to pre-empt the appearance of dogs and getting him to sit down, close hs eyes, and sing (or rather babble, since he had no speech) loudly, whenever he encountered a dog. This was done to try to stop his normal reactions of banging himself or others wildly, fleeing at top speed and even jumping on top of cars to avoid a dog. If the dog was little and quiet, it still produced a reaction but this time it was a pre-emptive strike by Brian, who would kick the dog with full force. As one might imagine, this had lead to many difficult situations in the past, especially for Brian's family, and eventually they found it impossible to take him out at all, further restricting his life and doing nothing to help him overcome his fears or to deal with them in more acceptable ways. The pattern of behaviours trained by Brian's teachers did help him manage more situations and his successful 'coping' may over time have helped lessen his fear, as often is the case as the person grows up. Yet there were still many situations that were not managed, when staff attention was distracted so that it was Brian who first saw a dog on the horizon. In such cases, Brain would show some of his more unacceptable behaviours and it was too late then to prompt the alternative repertoire. As Brian got older and stronger, the damage such outbursts caused was greater and even these occasional outbursts were judged unacceptable; Brian was in danger of becoming restricted to a few 'safe' environments.

 

It was decided that Brian needed some desensitisation so that he could tolerate at least milder situations (the dog on the horizon, the quiet little dog near him) and he needed a programme to help him self-prompt his pattern of coping behaviour. The desensitisation chosen started in the sensory room where he could be made relaxed and comfortable with lavender scent, gentle music and comfortable soft cushions. In this relaxed state, slides depicting very small dogs very far awat were projected on to the ceiling. Once he was able to tolerate these without getting disturbedm the size of the dog was increased and dogs in close-up were projected. The next step was to introduce video of dogs, with sound. Once more this started with small dogs a long way away and with the sound turned very low. When Brian could tolerate these videos he was shown other videos where dogs were more centre stage and the volume was gradually increased. Brian was even able eventually to manage to stay calm with all these familiar videos, but strange videos, where dogs would suddenly appear and bark, provoked almost the same fear reaction as real-life situations.

 

It was not expected that Brian could easily become totally desensitised to these videos or that, even if he could, that would generalise to real-life situations. What was hoped was that the prior desensitisation programme would enable him to tolerate these videos sufficently to enable him to use these as training to self-prompt his coping behaviours. Just before the dogs appeared on the video Brian was taught to prepare for their appearance by following his coping stratergies. To begin with this was prompted, but the prompts were faded until he was producing the coping behaviour himself on sight of the dogs. This success was 'overlearned' to new videos and then to real-life but controlled situations. Thus situations were engineered within the school grounds where he could be warned that a dog would appear and could go into his coping strategies before the actual appearance of a dog triggered the fear. Once he was doing this easily and without stress, the warning was faded and Brian was given a gentle physical prompt (if needed) to trigger the coping behaviour as the dog appeared. Once Brian was able to manage these engineered situations he was taken back into real-life situations where he was able to generalise. The whole programme had taken twelve months but had made a great difference to his life and that of his family. After several more years, when Brian was in an adult establishment, he was given more desensitisation treatment, but this time at a higher level. He was introduced to quiet well-behaved dogs and taught gradually to manage without his coping behaviour. This was successful and Brian can now tolerate dogs as long as they do not directly touch him.

 

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Hopefully that might give you some ideas that could help prepare you child incase you did get a dog. All the best, David.

Edited March 6, 2007 by David Matthew Baker

[jen]

We had the same situation. The eldest wanted a dog and the youngest 9years ASD was scared of dogs. We went to the dogs home and looked for an older dog. One that was not too large but likes to play with balls, toys etc.

 

We had the dog in last September and its taken until now for our youngest to get confidence with the dog. Now he will go up and stroke the dog, he will play ball with the dog. At first the dog was kept in a separate room, away from our youngest child. When we were altogether the dog came into the room with us. Slowly over 6 months our youngest confidence has grown and it is one of the best things we have done.

 

 

If you do have a dog choose one carefully.

 

Jen

[Tilly]

just thought I'd let you know that we did decide to get a dog. we got a Westie puppy and after quite a lot of tears dd seems to have accepted her, but at the moment the puppy has slept a great deal and isn't a great threat. she has fed the puppy but is still very wary, fingers crossed that we too will be like jen and say its one of the best things we have done.

 

tilly

[Lynden]

just thought I'd let you know that we did decide to get a dog. we got a Westie puppy and after quite a lot of tears dd seems to have accepted her, but at the moment the puppy has slept a great deal and isn't a great threat. she has fed the puppy but is still very wary, fingers crossed that we too will be like jen and say its one of the best things we have done.

 

tilly

 

Oh fab. I bet she will grow to like her. The puppy stage is difficult for most kids. My NT daughter didn't like that our pup jumped on her, but once he got past the jumping/chewing stage they were inseperable. Logan was totally indifferent for a long time but now he adores the dog and spends forever laughing at him.

 

One good thing to do if you havent is get a cage for the dog. It means that if needbe you can contain him for a bit, but also more for the dog - its his safe space and my kids and friends know that when Jasper goes into his cage he's not to be disturbed because its 'his space'.

 

Lynne x

[darky]

Hi there. Perhaps i can put your mind at rest on this one!! Both my ASD kids were petrified of dogs. It was becomming a huge problem whilst out and about. They both refused to go to any park, and if we saw a dog we had to cross the road. We could not visit any friends houses that had a dog either!

 

2 yrs ago after a lot of thought, we decided to get a small dog. My daughter was scared witless to begin with. I remember when we went to look at the pups my daughter was sat on top of the sofa curled in a ball and refused to even look at them.

 

We got our pup and it was no more than a couple of days, my kids, all of them had a new best friend. Even my daughter loved him so much. Now 2 years later we have 2 dogs and they both love them to bits.

 

good luck with the puppy. they are hard work without a doubt, but worth every bit of it.

[Clare63]

Good luck Tilly with your new addition, I hope you find this to be a really positive step, like the others we were in a simular situation now 2 years on our doggy and son are the best of friends.

Clare x

[Tilly]

Thanks so much for the positive comments. Dd has had a few tears again about the dog and that we shouldn't have brought one home, so it was heart soaring to hear the success stories, hoping mine becomes a success story too.

 

Tilly.

 

P.S Yes Lynden we have got a cage, marvellous things and thats when dd seems to enjoy her most, stoking her and watching etc. Can anyone advise on the spray that deters the puppies from chewing, as dd was distraught when the puppy was going for her socks.

[lynyona]

Our dog is ten years old now and is a soft as a brush now he has to be as he is often on the recieving end of kierans wrath.So you do need a dog that is good natured.And i also agree with everything else that has been said about siblings i to feel that my youngest misses out on things becuase of kieran,we dont go anywhere because he doesnt want to or only on his terms and let him do things to keep the peace to save meltdowns like gardenia mentioned while he hasnt actually come out and said it i can tell he feels it sometimes.And as much as i hate to admit it in a a sense they are a lot alike.but he d never admit it and i was once asked when i was anxious about j if it was possible that he could have ASD as well but i didnt persue it further

 

 

 

lynn

[loupin]

we had a similar issue last year and we sort of bypassed my sons dislike/fear of dogs and bought puppy.It was the best thing that we ever did, his fear of dogs is now totally gone!!

It is really tricky balancing the needs of all the kids, i have 3 sons and i really feel for my little 2 as they are often on the recieving end of tantrums etc.

[slaphead]

Hi, we had similar, but fundamentally different, problem a few years ago. When eldest was born, we had 2 dogs. when eldest was 3 months old, we had 9 dogs (both parents and 7 pups!) we didn't know biggun was AS/ADHD at the time, and we kept the only pup that biggun would permit on his lap, as we thought that there was already a bond between them. As the next 2 years unfolded, we had to re-home the female dog as she snapped at biggun. Unfortunately, the old male dog died (well he was 15 years old). Life went on, daughter arrived following year, Biggun was Dx'd 2 years ago. around the time of DX, biggun was having trouble at school, bullying, incapable teacher (being very polite and generous here - oh,sod it!, the man was an arrogant pig, a coward too - but that's another story) etc. Anyway, one evening, biggun collapses in floods of tears and when calmed down said that he was sad and upset because he was missing 'Rebel' (the old male dog who died when Barry was 2). So, after many family pow-wows, we decided to get Barry a puppy, which we duly did. Barry chose his 'own' pup from a litter of 6, he named him 'Rebel' (surprise, surprise!), and we all trotted off home. Next morning all hell broke loose, Barry & Rhiannon had a MAJOR fight. Cause? "She was trying to fuss MY dog!". Upshot? we went back to the chap who had the pups and fetched another one home , for Rhiannon. Both kids refer to respective dogs as "mine", but Wifey Linda has to feed and exercise them all!

 

I wouldn't advise this course of action for everyone, you really have to be very 'in' to dogs - our 3 poochies live as members of the family, always indoors and sharing bedrooms with us and the kids- but it was our way out of the problem we had.

 

Also, on a cautionary note, Dogs, along with most other 'pack' animals, can often sense when a human has a problem (physical like a broken leg,or mental like AS). whilst most dogs will respond positively by 'loving' "their"human, the pack animal instincts can cause some dogs to attack the 'weakend/sick' person. we believe this is what our female dog did to biggun, which is why she was re-homed and not put down.