have to go to appeal to get the school he wants

[witsend]

Hi - forgive me if this post is s bit disjointed have just come off the phone to LEA family liaison officer and am feeling bit stressed out .

Basically the situation is this: son hates special school he is has been attending since last Sept (in yr 7) and wants to move after lots of angst and meeting, we (ourselves and LEA) have agreed this would be for the best, sooo.....we are in the processs of looking at other (mainstream) schools. There are two schools really to choose from and we have visits set up0 for both. Both are local church schools, the first has an ok reputation and has places and will prob take him no probs, the second has a marvellous reputation but is always very oversubscribed to and has strict entry criteria (mostly to do with church attendance). The thing is son is totally fixated on the second school and really doesn't want to go anywhere else!! We wouldn't actually meet entry criteria for this school despite son having attended primary school which is associate with it. The vast majority of children from his primary school now go this high school (which is why he wants to go there I think).

Anyway the LEA guy I've just spoken to on the phone has just told me this school have no places available in yr 7 and so if we want son to go there we will have to go to appeal.

Now I don't know what to do, I know son will immediately say he wants this school not the other when we go to look round, I also know he will refuse to go back to his present school after Easter (it's already a daily battle to get him there, and a couple of times he has refused point blank to go!). I'm presuming appeals are lengthy affairs and just don't know what to do, also even if we won appeal (and I have no idea how likely that is) would there still be no place for him? And is we lost appeal would he still have the chance to go to the first school?

Sorry feel I'm rambling now - just feel desperate with Easter being so close and all this was supposed to be sorted by then and now it looks like it will drag on forever and son won't be going to school anywhere!!

Any thoughts advice??

Thanks Luv Witsend.

[helenl53]

Hi Witsend - does your DS have a statement - this could make all the difference!.

 

Regards

 

HelenL

[Clare63]

Witsend, sorry to hear about your dilema. Surely if they have suggested you appeal and you won they would have to give you a place. I am afraid I don't have any advice for you but wish you well in your quest for getting a school that will support your son and that he feels safe and comfortable in.

<'> <'> <'>

Clare x

[helenl53]

Hi Witsend - I was being thick - off course DS will have a statement - most special schools only take statemented children. I think you have less of a problem. The parts of the COP that cover admisssion to maintained schools for children with statements is covered at 1:36 & 8:80 onwards.

 

Hope this helps

 

HelenL

[Kathryn]

If these schools are the only choices, it's unlikely that your son would miss out on a place altogether. If the LEA names a school on the statement, that school must take him as long as certain conditions are satisfied (see COP 8.62). This overrides other entry criteria.

 

Your visits will give you a clearer idea of what you want, and I think it's a good idea to talk to the head of your preferred school and see what his /her views are.

 

Appeals take about four months from start to finish - sometimes the date of the hearing can be moved forward if the circumstances warrant it. It's worth a try if the LEA won't name it and you really think your son would be happier there. The onus would be on the LEA to prove why the school is unsuitable.

 

It's hard work, but you're getting there: hang in there. <'>

 

K x

[Kazzen161]

>>It's worth a try if the LEA won't name it

 

It may be that the LEA are saying that you must go to appeal because if the tribunal says the school has to take the child, it has to (even if it takes it above its usual number on roll). I believe the Tribunal can tell the school to do this (up to a certain percentage over usual number on roll), whereas the LEA is not allowed to.

 

It would be worth finding out if this is the case, and if so, whether the LEA will put up much opposition.

 

Also, check if they mean you should appeal to the SEN Tribunal, or to the standard Admissions panel (as for any child who has not been offered a place at a school).

 

I think in order to appeal to the SEN Tribunal, some amendment has to have been made to the Statement.

 

Karen

[Kathryn]

Hi Witsend,

 

As Kazzen says, the current statement must be amended before you can appeal. The LEA would have to amend part 4 anyway in order to name a different school, and as part 3 presumably describes the special school provision your son is currently getting, this would have to be amended too. Any amendments made would give you the right of appeal to the tribunal against anything in parts 2 3 and 4.

 

The LEA has the legal power to order a school to take a child - in practice it would be unwise if the school was clearly unsuitable: the LEA must consult the governing body before specifying the school in the statement. The school can argue against the decision only on the grounds that the child's education would be "incompatible with the efficient education of others". This point could be used to justify not admitting a child to a school that is full but the school would still have to show that there is a good reason for this and could not take reasonable steps to accommodate a child: eg if there lack of classroom space.

 

Hope that makes sense! You're in a stronger position than if you were changing from a mainstream to a special school, so don't panic just yet.

 

K x

Edited March 9, 2007 by Kathryn

[witsend]

Thank you so much for your replies, I think I'm so stressed because there are two issues here. First I'm not sure this school son wants is the right one for him, it is very high achieving and competative (I know I went there as a child) and very large (1200 pupils), but he is totally fixated on it and is convinced he would be happy there despite all the potential pitfalls I have pointed out to him. Thing is he is of an age where I have to listen to and take into account his views and if he's sure this is the best school for him then maybe thats reason enough to fight for it? It does worry me though that I have heard of kids with ASD being excluded from this school before and the fact that it is going to be a 6th former from the school showing us round and not staff rings alarm bells to me, the LEA guy said we would have to set up a further meeting with Senco from this school if we liked it when we look round but all this is delaying matters further and I can't help feeling the school just wont want son there really. Of course trying to explain all this to son without totally destroying any self esteem he has left is impossible.

Also if I'm totally honest (and I feel terrible admitting this) I don't know if I can face another battle I am so worn down with it all, it takes over our lives. I feel it would be easier to just not even look at this school and go round the other one instead. The other school does seem more SEN freindly and it is half the size and I'm sure they would offer him a place. I just wish he would be happy with that.

Of course we wont know until he starts either school wether he will like them anyway, and I still feel like most of the world thinks I'm mad for taking him out of a special school when he has so many needs, but he just hates it so much I am very worried about him, some mornings he just lays in bed with silent tears rolling down his face knowing he has to face the ordeal of the taxi journey (an hour long) and the school.

The special school he is at are openly quite cross with us for considering moving him and have just stopped communicating with us full stop, I no longer trust a word they say anyway.

I know DS will prob refuse to go anymore after Easter and then what an earth am I gonna do about work etc? Even if he doesn't refuse I don't know if I have the heart to force him to go anymore he is so unhappy and it's just not ###### fair!! I have told the LEA all this but they don't seem to realise or care how dreadful it is.

Sorry am off ranting again now. Thank you for listening.

Luv Witsend.

[Kathryn]

Hi Witsend,

 

This is a tough situation to be in - you've got so much to think about and it must be so hard watching your son going through this stress. I think you're absolutely right to consider what your son wants and feels but I can understand your uneasiness. Do you know why he likes the school - is it just a general feeling or are there specific things that make it attractive? (I didn't know at the time, but L was really enthusiastic about her chosen secondary school only because of the school cat!).

 

I'm surprised that a 6th former is showing you round - it's hardly a routine open day! Surely someone from the staff should be made available to answer your questions at some point - there may be many you want to ask. Could you perhaps make an appointment with the Senco anyway - this would speed things up.

 

I hope the visits go OK - who knows, maybe your son will find something to like about the smaller school when he has a look. You'll probably feel clearer in your own mind about what to do next once you've actually seen both schools in action.

 

Take care <'>

 

K x

[Clare63]

You could always make arrangements for a separate visit to meet with the Head or Head of Year and SEN. We visited several secondary school and in the end went for the one that was just coming out of special measures, other parents were horrified at our decision but it felt right for our boy, there's only 500 kids at the school and they ethos for inclusion sold it to us. Whilst we have had one or two problems and DS still not too happy about going to school they have been supportive and open to trying different things to help him. I think perhaps in a bigger more successful school he would have been totally lost and I would not have been able to have such close contact with the staff and teachers. My advice is explore the possibilities and get a feeling of the place. Good luck Clare x

[witsend]

HI -thanks for the replies. Kathryn I think my son is so set on this school because most of the other kids from his primary school have gone there and so it would feel safer and familiar to him. However what I can see and he can't is that a lot of these kids had no real time for him anyway, just before they left primary a lot of the kids had started to meet up in town etc they were leaving ds son out of it and he used to ask me to take him to town so that he could maybe see them and tag along. I'm sure now these kids have formed their own little cliques again and worry ds would just face more rejection from them if he goes to this school, but then again maybe I'm wrong. At the smaller school I don't think he really knows anyone so would be starting with a clean slate so to speak. I'm glad you also think it's not too good having a 6th former show us round, I think the LEAS guy who arranged it is actually pretty useless. I will ring the school myself like you suggested and set up a meeting with the staff.

Clare I can understand your decision I agree that what a lot of other parents would regard as the 'best' school is not often the best for our kids. I think things may be clearer when we have looked round both schools. I think the whole time frame thing is panicking me 'cos I can't see it get sorted for the term after Easter.

Anyway will recommence battle tomorrow and see what happens.

Luv Witsend.

[BusyLizzie100]

Hi Witsend, My kids are still primary-age so I can't help much, but have some of these:

<'> <'> <'> <'>

I feel for you, though - we are trying to sort out schools for DS2 at the moment and it's a nightmare trying to figure it all out. My brain aches from thinking about it!

 

Take care.

Lizzie <'>

[Kazzen161]

>>I think my son is so set on this school because most of the other kids from his primary school have gone there and so it would feel safer and familiar to him

 

Does your son realise that he won't be in a class with all of his school mates? It is likely he will only be with one or two from his school, all the others will be from other schools.

 

My sons' school splits the 6 tutor groups into two halves: they have some lessons with children from their tutor gruop and some with others of the same ability in their "half" - so they hardly see children in the other half, except at breaktimes. It is good to find out how each schoool works in this respect.

 

I would be inclined to accentuate the negatives of one school (eg: make sure you are in the corridor at lesson change time) and the positives of the other (eg: the good music facilities or the after-school clubs).

 

Karen

[UltraMum]

Hi Witsend

 

Some quotes for you:

School Admissions Code 2007

This new Admissions Code was brought into effect on the 28 February 2007, following a consultation during the previous year.

 

This Code has a stronger statutory basis than its predecessors. All admission authorities are required to act in accordance with its mandatory provisions.

 

1.50

Section 324 of the Education Act 1996 requires the governing bodies of all

maintained schools to admit a child with a statement of special educational

needs that names their school.

 

2.6

All governing bodies are required by section 324 of the Education Act 1996 to

admit to the school a child with a statement of special education needs that

names the school. This is not an oversubscription criterion. Schools must admit

such children whether they have places or not.

 

http://publications.teachernet.gov.uk/eOrd...SA-CODE2007.pdf

 

It seems to me that - as long as your son's statement names the school - the school have to admit him - even if there are no spaces in the normal way ... of course the LEA may not name this particular school on the statement but that's a whole different kettle of fish ...

[witsend]

Hi -thanks for that ultramum. Having spoken to LEA liason man again he says the LEA wont name the school, but don't actually know this for sure until I've spoken to the organ grinder!

Having chatted to my son more about it all he says he is willing to go to whichever school will take him first anyway so that's something.

I've said now I'm not happy about being shown round a school by 6th former so that visit is getting re arranged.

Watch this space - and thanks everyone for your help - it really does keep me going.

Luv Witsend.

[Kathryn]

Hi witsend,

 

That sounds more hopeful - lets hope your son, you and the LEA all end up wanting the same school: it would hugely simplify matters!

 

keep us posted,

 

K x