Mental Health and SEN

[Mother in Need]

My Youngest has serious mental health problems (depression, suicide attempts, etc), hasn't been in his class since the beginning of term and out of school for the last few weeks as he can totally not cope. School has so far not been helpful, and I have been summoned to a meeting with the EWO to explain his low attendance figures...

 

A) I have to explain things to the EWO (whom I have had dealings with for my AS son and he isn't one of the good guys); he hasn't had any education at all for months; C) I need the respite school gives; D) he needs the distraction of organised education; E) he desperately needs contact with other children.

 

So I am working on a letter to send to school and the EWO, ed psych etc, to ask them to actually HELP him... I have explained the situation in great detail, going into physical (fits) & mental health issues to bullying to other unrecognised needs at school.

 

In my dealings with school so far this year, they won't recognise his needs, he isn't even on SA or SA+ despite external involvement (ed psych, dyslexia teacher, SALT referral, psychiatrists etc). For him to be able to even be in the building, he needs a lot of help, so I must somehow convince them to put him on SA+ and put lots of stuff into place (and I think for now he needs 1-2-1 as he has run away from school before and I really don't want to have to drag him out of the river again, or worse; he must be kept SAFE).

 

I have been trawling the net, books, SEN code etc, and yet I cannot find much at all about mental health issues and what school should provide, relation to SEN, nothing at all. Does anyone have any ideas?

[jomica]

Hi Mother in need

 

I'm sorry to hear about your situation, and empathise with you so much.

 

Have you tried going for a statement yourself, with (or without) the school's help? You can put in a "parental request for assessment", which means that the LEA have to say whether or not they plan to assess. If they don't you have leave to appeal to SENDIST.

[Mother in Need]

Hi Mother in need

 

I'm sorry to hear about your situation, and empathise with you so much.

 

Have you tried going for a statement yourself, with (or without) the school's help? You can put in a "parental request for assessment", which means that the LEA have to say whether or not they plan to assess. If they don't you have leave to appeal to SENDIST.

I have, but I don't know if I have enough to go on, his needs are all still so 'vague' (but very real!) at the moment. Also, it is such a long and hard process, if he got one it wouldn't be for quite some time, and he needs help now, not in 6 months (well yes he might, but you know what I mean). And I simply do not have the fight in me, it is normally hard enough coping with DS2 that I really am not managing with all this with DS3... first things first really.........immediate survival.

[JsMum]

Hi I would write an urgent email or letter to the head of Special Educational Needs Department of your local Council services not the schools senco but straight to the council SEN department, your council will have a website and have thier detail and address for you to get to the actual person you need to contact and express your concerns that your sons needs are not been met, and that you would like an urgent assessment, if it is that he hasnt been in school because of suicide and anxiety I would really try and get the GP to sign him off sick and if he was prepared to sign him off for more than two weeks then the LEA have to provide an alternative to school, like home tutor, if you cant get the sick note then state that your son is a school refuser, again they have to provide an alternative to school so PRU or the hospital school.

 

The fact he hasnt been on any special needs registration is highly suspicious especially as you state that the psychiatrist and other specialists have been involved.

 

Under the new laws childrens dont need lables to get their needs identified, its the needs of your child that needs addressing, so the discriptions you have given should be enough to know how to help your son be back in education and as said that doesnt nessasarily mean school.

 

I recommend you do go ahead with the request of an assessment, in the meantime.

 

I would also look at using the educational helplines that available and mental health services like Youngminds to get more of a representative.

 

 

http://www.youngminds.org.uk/pis/

 

 

 

http://www.network81.org/Contact-Us.aspx

 

 

Hope these help you ok.

 

JsMum

Edited June 2, 2007 by JsMum

[JsMum]

Just Found this too, looks interesting and thought of posting the link throw.

 

http://www.bma.org.uk/ap.nsf/Content/Child...entmentalhealth

 

JsMum

[JsMum]

went on sane.org and they have a young persons page, the site also describes depression and suicide that may be helpful to print and add to the letter or email to help them see why your son isnt coping in school, the syptoms will be very difficult for him to learn and listen.

 

here is sane.org

 

http://www.sane.org.uk/public_html/About_M...ung_People.shtm

 

http://www.sane.org.uk/public_html/About_M...Depression.shtm

 

 

JsMum

Edited June 2, 2007 by JsMum

[JenRose]

motherinneed, you are describing exactly what happened to M 18 months ago.

this is what we did.

 

firstly, a medical/sick note from our GP and an urgent referral to CAMHS. EWO may say they dont accept a letter from your GP, this is what they told us

but its rubbish.

Then we requested an emergency asessment of M,s SN straight to the head of SEN LEA dept. it went ignored, but its good for your records that you

have tried everything.

Then meetings were held with EWO and school, M wasnt on special needs register or anything at this point.

When your child is signed off sick for more than 15 days they have to provide education elsewhere, either home tutor or PRU.

i must stress that the most important thing at the moment is to get the sick note, that will get EWO off your back.

then we got in touch with IPSEA and took it from there.

 

hope this helps, if you need any more info feel free to pm me.

[JsMum]

A lot of people pursume that MIND is for Adults with mental health difficulties but there website has a section on young people and its really interesting reading so going to suggest a read of this one too, so just one more.

 

http://www.mind.org.uk/Information/Factshe...ntal+Health.htm

 

JsMum

[JsMum]

Found the school code of practice booklet its now available on pdf so here is the link

 

http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/_doc/3755/Parents%20Guide.pdf

 

I will search for more specific school action plus where it states it is throw outside agencies been involved with the child.

 

at the very end of the school code of practice pdf there is loads of further websites that offer support for different issues relating to health and SEN.

 

JsMum

[Mother in Need]

Thanks, I have got The Code, but will have a look at those links. Again, in the code, I cannot find anything very specific to this at all. Can't answer further now, DS2 won't leave me alone.

[Karen A]

Hi As far as I understand if a child has a mental health need that is impacting their education in such a way that thay cannot access education available by usual means then they have SEN.Hence as others have said you should be able toask for a STAT Assessment.

My elder son had a period of anxiety and panic attacks related to school earlier this year.He is doing very well now but the SENCO at the secondary school he will start in Sep still plans to put him on the SEN register.

If a psychiatrist is involved it is worth contacting them and asking for support in dealing with school.

Karen.

[Karen A]

Hi I thought I would add that I have used the young minds telephone helpline.The staff are excellent and can arrange for another professional to call back if you need more specialist advice.They will also recommend other sources of advice if needed.Karen.

[Mother in Need]

if a child has a mental health need that is impacting their education in such a way that thay cannot access education available by usual means then they have SEN.

Very nicely put Karen! Considering he hasn't been in class at all this term, he is certainly not accessing any education. I will put this in the letter I am preparing, it is so stupid that school still hasn't done ANYTHING at all to help him, though they have not forced him to be in class, they have just left him (by himself) in the hallway or dumped him in the little class, with no work... I drove past school earlier on and gosh you should have seen his reaction, panic instantly... this way of putting it of yours Karen is one that I can use when applying for a statement as well.

I still have not managed to find anything else connecting mental health to SEN, other than very vague references, despite so many wonderful links having been passed on to me. Thanks for that everyone, esp JsMum!

[Mother in Need]

Will try to make loads of phone calls tomorrow, but as I will have DS3 here with me, and I do not want him to become more anxious, I may find finding the right moment difficult.

[Karen A]

Hi again.The Dfes have published guidance on ''Education for children with medical needs ''.I found the guidance very useful as it includes lots of referrences to children with mental health needs.Sorry I cannot do a link- but if you search the Dfes website I hope you will be able to find it.Karen.

[Karen A]

Hi I keep thinking of things that were useful for me. Parent partnership may also help if they are any good in your area.In our borough they will support parents if children are not in school due to mental health needs.They may act as advocates or a support at the meating.Karen.

[Mother in Need]

Thanks Karen. I have indeed contacted Parent Partnership, and hope to hear from them tomorrow, BUT with DS2 they were helpful up to a point and then suddenly put on their LEA's hat and became obstructive, so I am doubtful as to how useful they can be this time, but as you say, maybe it is different with mental health needs (mind you, DS2 has to stay in a psychiatric day unit for 6 weeks before attitutes started changing in our favour, so mental health certainly came into it as well). Fingers crossed!

 

I've got that publication here, and have skimmed through it and marked some places that seem really useful as pointers.

[Mother in Need]

Between you all, everyone is convincing me to go for a full statement, and I can now see the relevance of it, esp as that means that all his needs will HAVE to be assessed urgently! I will wait till I see the clinical psychologist again on Wednesday, who was going to consult with the psychiatrist who's been away, and then see if I can get her to support me in relation to the school and his education, and ask her what she feels needs doing, hopefully she says the same as all of you, statement starting and lots of help in place before he can even be asked to go back. However, it is only a 3-class school, so they definitely won't have any TAs to spare till that statement is in place. Would the LEA pay for one for now, so he can start to access his education, or won't they do that till they have decided whether to assess or not etc?

[JsMum]

Found this as I was helping you find spercific information for Mental Health and SEN it may help you get your point across, you could always copy it and send it in with your letter.

 

http://education.independent.co.uk/news/article1814754.ece

 

JsMum

[JsMum]

Found this article and may be of interest

 

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/1...14.2004.00408.x

 

JsMum

[JsMum]

The last posts website about Christine Seymour led me to her site for the National Association of Hospital and Home Teachers that then led me to this website that has the booklet information on medical needs, it describes all about mental health in education in chapter 3 happy reading.

 

http://www.dfes.gov.uk/sickchildren/Pdfs/A...toEducation.pdf

 

JsMUM

[Mother in Need]

Thanks again JsMum!!!!

 

Well, I've managed to ring Young Minds, and they will send me info plus have a specialist advisor ring me back (within the next 7 days, why does it always feel so long). I have nearly finished the letter to school (and will copy it to many others like ed psych etc) and will deliver it later (if I can get DS3 to even go in that direction that is), and then wait and see school's reaction, and take it from there.

 

Meanwhile DS3 is still very depressed and bored, but won't accept any ideas for things to do...

[Philly]

Dear Mother in Need,

 

My heart goes out to you and your current situation. I would definitely

involve someone medical like the GP at this stage for appropriate referral.

There must be a reason for his depression and feeling suicidal and those

needs need to be met.

 

In my experience LEA's and schools take action on MEDICAL advice.

 

 

In the meantime you've got the incredible pressure of keeping your son's

head above water. To just snap out of depression is so difficult. Probably

best to start encouraging a few suggestions which may bring out positivity.

Getting up, showering, not listening to depressing tv programmes or music

etc. reading a positive book, favourite dinner etc - trying to set up

some kind of routine - easier said than done I know!

 

If they cannot pinpoint the problem, his needs cannot be ascertained and

therefore cannot be met.

 

That school you mention don't sound like the most supportive bunch. Any

chance of a fresh start somewhere else - clean slate, new start? In the meantime

whilst his needs are being ascertained you can put in the necessary processes for

applying for any support he may need at school.

 

Keep strong

[Karen A]

Hi I am glad you were able to get hold of young minds and hope they will be helpful.I am thinking of you.Having a bored fed up child at home is hard work. <'> <'> Karen.

[Mother in Need]

Thanks ladies.

 

The reasons behind his depression etc are clear to me, and are numerous, and all need to be addressed for him to be able to go on with life. Having a brother with AS and ODD, needs not met at school, being bullied at school, having had fits for a year and still no treatment, all add to the 'concoction' of his many emotions. He is now being seen by a psychiatrist and psychologist, and in two weeks time will finally have an appointment with an appropriate medical specialist, but none of this would have happened had he not tried to commit suicide and had I not pushed so incredibly hard afterwards......... this should not be at all. Now I've got to get school to take action, and I thinkthey ar ethe most difficult of the bunch....... unfortuantely not much choice re school in this area............

[JenRose]

hi MIN.

i was thinking last night about when M first came out of school. how he and your son sound similar, for a long time we couldnt get him to come out of the bedroom, he ate in there and watched tv for hours, wouldnt communicate with any one or go anywhere apart from game shops.

 

we took it day by day, we promised him as did the clinical psych that no decision would be made without involving him, little by little, i would go into the bedroom and just potter around, then i started to watch tv for a few mins and then i wrote him little notes about how i would love him to come and eat his lunch with me and then he could go back to watching tv.

 

18 months on and the change in him is astounding, he still isnt in school (we go to tribunal in 2 weeks) but he is chatty,smiling,wanting to talk to people, he goes to an after school club every day for 1.5 hours, people cannot believe the change in him from the boy he was all that time ago.

 

think what im trying to say is that you know your son better than anyone, dont be put off by the LEA saying he doesnt need statementing or whatever, you go with your instincts, when a child is so stressed and anxious like mine and your son they need patience and understanding and who can give that better than a parent?

CAMHS did initially help, they helped us understand why M was behaving the way he was and that was invaluable, but the hard work has been done by us.

that medical booklet is invaluable and ive used it in countless meetings against the LEA,EWO etc and they cannot argue with what it says in it.

 

please pm me if you need to chat.

jen

x

[Mother in Need]

Well, good news and bad news.

 

 

The EWO was actually very understanding, and signed him off school for medical reasons. He will also talk to the school, psych etc, and see what can be done for him.

 

But, the psychologist yesterday told me that he won't get any mental health treatment till the end of July..................when I complained about the time scale she empathised that they are NOT a crisis intervention team, they do not do that............(so if they don't then who...........)...............she also said that I am strong and resourceful and therefore I'll cope....................yeah right.............things may seem to disintegrate at times but they'll always sort themselves out again.........yeah right that's why he resorted to trying to kill himself................ AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

Oh, and 4 days after my letter to school they still haven't contacted me.................

 

Is anyone actually listening to me (the profs I mean)?

[wishingwell]

Sorry things are so difficult. <'> <'> <'>

 

I would probably go back to your GP and put pressure on him to refer the child to a child psychiatrist on the grounds of his mental health, that he needs urgent medical attention on the ground of being in danger of seriously harming himself (suicide). Over emphasize your concerns, behaviour, sleeping, eating, no interest in anything and talking about self harming. Walking the floors all night feeling unwell all the time and the serious effects it is having on the rest of the family. In our area we use the post-traumatic stress team when the kids get depressed and suicidal. They can also write a very supporting report which can be a good help to-wards the statement and DLA. While you are waiting on the statement you can get the school to apply for emergency 1-2-1 assistance in school stating that they cannot provide the education he is entitled too without additional assistant there is emergency funding available for this. Every child has the fundamental right to access an education and it is their job to provide this service. Try to get the school on your side by asking them to help you, butter them up if possible I know this might be difficult but if you write them a letter asking for the help who knows! It 's worth a try at anything to get your son the help he deserves.

[Mother in Need]

Sorry things are so difficult. <'> <'> <'>

 

I would probably go back to your GP and put pressure on him to refer the child to a child psychiatrist on the grounds of his mental health, that he needs urgent medical attention on the ground of being in danger of seriously harming himself (suicide). Over emphasize your concerns, behaviour, sleeping, eating, no interest in anything and talking about self harming. Walking the floors all night feeling unwell all the time and the serious effects it is having on the rest of the family. In our area we use the post-traumatic stress team when the kids get depressed and suicidal. They can also write a very supporting report which can be a good help to-wards the statement and DLA. While you are waiting on the statement you can get the school to apply for emergency 1-2-1 assistance in school stating that they cannot provide the education he is entitled too without additional assistant there is emergency funding available for this. Every child has the fundamental right to access an education and it is their job to provide this service. Try to get the school on your side by asking them to help you, butter them up if possible I know this might be difficult but if you write them a letter asking for the help who knows! It 's worth a try at anything to get your son the help he deserves.

It sounds like you're all too familiar with all this....

 

I am having serious difficulty for anyone to take the situation seriously. They all go on about how they want the best for him, but then say that there is nothing they can do till the end of July for one thing, October the other, that they're doing everthing they can, etc, but that there just isn't the funding to help all the children that need urgent help...

 

He has had two visits to CAHMS but they have now said nothing more till end of July. I have emphasized everything, I have pushed and cried and stressed I am not coping but they simply say we will manage...

 

I have asked the school for help on numerous occasions and sent them yet another letter on Monday, but us usual there has been no reply from them at all...

 

I so wish I could change his school, or even move out of this accursed beautiful area which has no funding nor care for anything or anyone, but then I would have to start the fight for my other son all over again as well (apart from many other reasons why I can't move) so it won't help us at all.

 

The info on the emergency 1-2-1 assistance is very useful, and I have just written to the LEA requesting this. Thank you!

[jomica]

Hi Mother in Need

 

I sympathise entirely with your situation. You do seem to be getting a raw deal given your son's problems.

 

Have you tried phoning the PALS (Patient Advice and Liaison Service) at the mental health trust providing the CAMHS service? They are there to try to bring swift resolution of problems such as yours.

 

http://www.pals.nhs.uk/

 

If you know the name of the NHS Trust providing the service, either have a look on their own or the national PALS website (link above) or look in the phone book, for the number of their PALS service. It will be office hours only, but where I work they are very effective.

 

Hope this helps

 

<'>

[Mother in Need]

Thanks Jomica, will look into this.

 

I am meanwhile trying to visit other schools in the area (though this is not ideal as it means driving up and down to school twice a day, cutting my 'respite' time even shorter, and somehow having to juggle it with picking DS2 up at the same time), now that DS! is off school for study leave he can help me out a ibt with his care while I go se the heads etc.

 

As for his own school, I have still not heard anything from them, though from the clinical psychologist I have heard that she has arranged a meeting with the school for Thursday (and she has invited me).

[Karen A]

The last posts website about Christine Seymour led me to her site for the National Association of Hospital and Home Teachers that then led me to this website that has the booklet information on medical needs, it describes all about mental health in education in chapter 3 happy reading.

 

http://www.dfes.gov.uk/sickchildren/Pdfs/A...toEducation.pdf

 

JsMUM

 

 

Thanks for posting the ref.That was the info I found helpful -but I didn't know how to put up a link.Karen.

[Mother in Need]

Emailed PALS, they even do an advocacy service, maybe that'll get us somewhere.

 

CAHMS have now put him on the list for the specialist day unit, though this won't be till September (they only have 6 kids every 6 week period).

 

Meanwhile ofcourse school has still not responded, though the psychologist has managed to get a meeting with them for Thursday. The next local school is full up, though someone did tell me that I could appeal that, but again, this would take ages. Another school would be logistically very difficult for me (transport and being in two places at the same time, never been too good at that one!).

[UltraMum]

I have been trawling the net, books, SEN code etc, and yet I cannot find much at all about mental health issues and what school should provide, relation to SEN, nothing at all. Does anyone have any ideas?

 

Anything here help? http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/wholeschool/s...yppublications/

[Mother in Need]

Nice one UltraMum, there's some good publications in them!

 

Meeting (at school) is tomorrow, and rather nervous about what they are going to say and how they are going to try to continue to wriggle out of their duties, but I have some questions ready for them that will hopefully make them think.

[JenRose]

how did your meeting go?

jen

x