Do you use ASD as an excuse in life not to do things?

[KMC]

I know this could be a very controversial topic but I wanted to see what others were like. Please be aware that this is not meant to offend but is a way of gauging how much others with Aspergers either challenge or dont challenge themselves.

 

Me? I am an adult who has known about my Aspergers for 7 or 8 years. Until very recently I didnt tell anyone. I work in a fairly "Nerdy" field anyway so it might have been easier to for me to get away with being on the Spectrum. I still havent told anyone at work, however I have told an ex Manager of mine (very NT) who taught me most of the people skills I have.

 

Growing up, I was the quintessential bookworm, the kid with no real friends who hung around on the periphery. Crowds of people terrified me.

 

For some reason though, I always challenged myself to do things. I took up public speaking (maybe because it was more "acting" than anything else). One of my first jobs was in sales and you had to understand what people were thinking as to how to pitch the sale. I had a very hard time doing that so I learned how to read body language from a book.

 

I fell into IT and was great technically but rubbish on the personal skills side. Nearly got fired from a job because of it. Enter the manager who taught me most of my people skills. She took the time to teach me how to respond to situations, how to appear to like change, how to understand why people reacted to me the way they did (I was very blunt). With her help I got promoted and it was very tough for quite a while. My people skills are more "cause and effect" rather than any real understanding of how people are feeling. By the same token, I certainly know how I feel. I dont deal with emotional people well or if I get emotional, I go into overload so I always try and stay logical. I cant play politics because I cant tell the corporate lies. I've done Myers Brigss tests and (suprise) am an INTJ.

 

In my personal life I have few friends - partially because I am a workaholic. I cant seem to keep friends when I do make them. I'm not sure why. The few that have been around for a long time, if I argue with them, I have no emotional attachment to them so I can walk away very easily.

 

I've never used my Aspergers as an excuse not to achieve something no matter how uncomfortable it makes me. Instead I push myself to learn what I need to be able to funtion.

 

I'm wondering what other people do. Do you not do things because of your Aspergers? I know that living in an NT world exhausts me so I guess I'm wondering if maybe I should cut myself some slack and just be me when I want to be, as opposed to constantly having to decipher the world.

 

What works for you?

[Tally]

I don't use AS as an excuse. Before I heard about AS, I thought there was something awfully wrong with me that made people dislike me, because I had no friends. Once I realised I has AS, I began to understand that the reason I had no friends was because I don't really make much effort with people . . . I practically beat them off with a stick to be honest . . . and I never realised that until recently. I think people also find it hard to be friends with me because they can tell that I am different, and they don't know how to react to that.

 

If I found a 'normal' thing hard, before I would have felt like I was stupid. Now I know certain things are hard because I have AS, and actually, that's a good starting point for learning how to do them. It allows me to forgive myself when something is hard, or it goes wrong, instead of calling myself stupid.

[bid]

Hi KMC

 

Did you have a good holiday?

 

OK, I've got to go out in a mo, so a quickie response for now, but I'll be back!!

 

My brief answer is that it's a question of balance achieved through understanding yourself.

 

Back later to EXPAND!!!

 

Bid

[KMC]

Hi Bid,

 

Yep - Great holiday thanks! Interesting response as well... am looking forward to the whole explanation!

 

 

Tally - I can relate to what you say. There are times where I totally frustrate myself because I cant work out how to do something or I cant work out what something means and I just feel so incredibly stupid. These are now the times that I have learned to walk away for a bit and then look at the problem again. I can often see something a second time that I couldnt the first time around. I persist until whatever it is sinks in.

 

As for people... well I prefer my computer! At least the computer is predictable!! I dont do the "friends" thing well at all. I learned to adjust for business but havent learned how to do it quite so well in my personal life.

 

 

KC

[Mumble]

No - and I get angry when the few people who know my diagnosis use it to give me an excuse not to do something. As I said in my support meeting this week - I want support to, not support around. Does that make sense? Don't give me an excuse, give me help to achieve and place me on a level playing field with those who don't have the additional challenges I have.

 

Mumble

[Bard]

Well, B tries to, but more when wrath is descending all around him for something annoying and adolescent and male..." It's the way my brain is wired..." No it isn't, it's because you're a twelve year old boy and you thought it was funny, or it was something you didn't feel like doing so you 'forgot'.

Hopefully he will grow up to be a mature, sensible and responsible individual.

Or not!

[bid]

OK, I'm back!

 

First of all, there are as many 'flavours' of AS as there are people with AS...a result of nature and nurture/life experience.

 

You describe yourself as a workaholic, and you tackle the challenges presented by your AS head-on. So I imagine you are an extremely focused individual...probably not much ADD going on there then!! From what you have said, I am guessing that, quite rightly, you achieve a good sense of self-worth through your work and your ability to tackle your difficulties logically until you succeed. (On the other hand I am quite ditsy and flakey, although I can be extremely focused either through need or interest.)

 

All of this is great, because it's who you are But, I wonder if you are looking for a little bit more balance when you speak about maybe 'cutting yourself slack'?? There isn't a sort of 'pass/fail' aspect of living with the challenges presented by AS. I have certainly found that realising that I have to pace myself has ultimately given me a better quality of life, even if I don't necessarily 'achieve' as much. I look upon it as having finally recognised when I need to be 'gentle' with myself.

 

The tricky bit is the 'balance' bit, of course. We all have our comfort zones, and I know that sometimes I can rely on mine too much. On the whole, though, I think a person has got it about right if the things that really do need to get done are achieved, however challenging, and things that don't really matter can sometimes be ignored or avoided without beating oneself up! How things are achieved doesn't necessarily have to be in a mainstreamy or conventional way either...nothing wrong with delegating things or the difficult aspects of things to someone who manages them more easily. For example, I find telephone calls and meetings extremely difficult, and I'm not very good at them. So when we were going through the statementing process for my son, it made sense that my DH covered those aspects, while I organised the whole thing and did all the paperwork, as that's my strength. I didn't see that as 'giving in' to the difficulties of my (possible?) AS, rather a sensible and logical solution!

 

As far as social difficulties go, I'm having my own internal dialogue about this very question at the moment. I think I posted in your last thread that after most of my adult life desperately trying to have friends and so on, I've largely given up. On the one hand I am much less stressed as a result, but on the other hand I'm not sure if this is using my AS as an excuse?? Having said that, I have my online friends here, and I'm very happy with the social aspect of my job, so maybe I have the balance right for me?

 

Blimey O'Riley, what a ramble, and what an excessive use of inverted commas!! Feel free to think it's a load of old tosh, as it's only some thoughts, and I would probably have given a very different answer 10, 15 or 20 years ago as getting older changes how you see yourself and your life/difficulties, too, of course.

 

Well done if you've read this far!

 

Bid

[Bard]

Bid, that is a fantastic attitude for anyone to have, NT or ND.

One of the reasons I am so happy where I work is that the majority of the staff appreciate that we each have different strengths and weaknesses. We help each other out and cut each other slack, and that way we all have a greater chance of staying sane, doing a better job and not falling off the tightrope!

 

You said ' nothing wrong with delegating things or the difficult aspects of things to someone who manages them more easily.'

and that is excellent advice.

I'm imaginative, good at discipline, good people/parent skills, cr*p at paperwork and organisation, any kind of sports and I type minutes per sentence. I work with a colleague whose strengths are my weaknesses, and vice versa. Together we are getting better at the stuff we each do badly, if that makes sense.

 

Oh, and my marriage has worked the same way for the last 21 years.

Edited June 13, 2007 by Bard

[bid]

Oo-er, I don't want to make it sound as though I have found the 'answer' to a life of self-contentment and happiness!

 

After 35 odd years of feeling inadequate and dysfunctional, I am finally in a much better place, due to a combination of things. The gradual understanding and assimilation of the fact that I have probably got AS has been pivotal. Then I have been incredibly lucky with my job: since changing to nights I have finally found my niche. I'm really fortunate that the 3 people I work with and my line manager are unconventional individuals, which I think makes them more accepting of my unconventionality. For the first time in my life I am with a group of people who actively like me, instead of just tolerating me, and actually tell me how much they enjoy working with me and so on. It was really thinking about this thread that has made me realise just how important and affirming my recent work experience has been for me, and what a knock-on effect it has generally.

 

BUT, I still struggle hugely with many things. There are aspects of the relationships part of my life that reduce me to tears every day because of my inability to understand properly or to be how I want to be I would give anything to be able to do better in that part of my life.

 

Bid

Edited June 14, 2007 by bid

[Bagpuss]

Bid, you don't come across at all ditzy in your posts. What has struck me is that you have a wonderful understanding of yourself....I wish I was able to view myself and how my actions affect others/relationships with the same way you have....your very astute <'>

[bid]

Thanks, Baggy <'>

 

Trouble is, I can be fine with the theory, just not very consistent with the practical application (sound familiar? )

 

Bid

[poppy]

From a Mum's point of view-I tell my son that his Aspergers is a reason (that he finds things difficult, people dont understand him etc) NOT an excuse. But...sometimes for his benefit I use it as an excuse!!

[KMC]

Bid - you say that you find telephone calls and meetings dificult. I did as well. The thought of having to ring someone I didnt know would fill me with dread and meetings were even worse. I found a way around it that may work for you. It's uncomfortable to start with but eventually you get better at it. Treat it as if you are acting on a stage. That way you can be someone else rather than yourself. Put yourself into the character you want to come across as. It took a little while, but it worked for me. As I said earlier in this post, my behaviour towards people is "cause and effect." Doing this helps me to see how the other person is feeling.

 

You are really lucky that you are in a job that you enjoy so much. It's great when that happens. Especially when you get on with the people you work with.

 

Poppy - I like your response to your son. I feel you are right in that Aspergers is the reason not an excuse. I made a conscious decision not to allow it to become an excuse for me. I think it's probably one of the reasons I can be so driven to achieve.

 

Bid is right about work/life balance though. I am rubbish at that, although in saying that I am getting better. I have taken up a few things that I used to enjoy. Time to shock the forum... Have started Clay pigeon shooting with 12 gauge shotguns again and have a competition this weekend. Also just bought myself a motorcycle so that I can get out and ride a bit. I havent done shooting for years and I havent ridden a motorcycle for 5 years. Not bad for a 39 year old female! ... Maybe that's just my midlife crisis though...

[Bagpuss]

KMC Well done My DH hankered after a motorbike too...think it was definately his mid life crisis....bought him a scooter.....the novelty soon wore off when he went to work on a very windy day down a busy dual carriageway

 

Good luck and hope the new pursuits go well.

[KMC]

I have absolutely no intention about riding the bike to work... It's purely for fun!!

[Shnoing]

I've voted "no", but ... there are some things I cannot do because of AS - in these cases I do not use AS as an excuse.

[KarenT]

From a Mum's point of view-I tell my son that his Aspergers is a reason (that he finds things difficult, people dont understand him etc) NOT an excuse.

Exactly what I tell J, too. It's a reason why he'll have to try harder than other people, unfortunately.

 

I've had teachers at his school telling me that he uses it as an excuse, ie "Don't you know I have Asperger's?!" I accept that there may be times when he does use it to try and get out of things he finds difficult, but in most cases I think he's trying to guide them to help him in an autism-friendly way. What he's really saying is "Look, I have AS, this is hard for me and I can't think it out myself. Help me out" but of course they haven't a clue so they don't, they just assume he's trying to weedle his way out of something or looking for special treatment. His communication difficulties don't help either - if he was looking up at them all cute (like Puss In Boots from Shrek) and showing 'normal' signs of distress no doubt they'd respond better, but as he presents as arrogant and rude it's easy for them to assume that he really is arrogant and rude. I can safely say he doesn't use it as an excuse at home. He will sometimes say that something is difficult for him because of the AS (he's usually right), but as he's only 8 I think he's developing self-awareness about the condition and accepting what it means to him personally.

 

Karen

x

[KarenT]

Sorry, I shouldn't really have posted in here - wrong age group. It's still early and my brain isn't in gear yet

 

Karen

x

[Noetic]

I've always pushed myself and abhor the idea of making excuses. Like yourself, I would rather smash my head on the wall over and over again trying to get something done that I "can't" do than give up or try and communicate to someone so they do it for me. I wouldn't know how to - at least when it comes to hard graft, I know how to do that myself!

[KMC]

Karen - Is okay for you to have posted. I only posted here because I am an adult but I find it quite interesting that you as a parent are encouraging your son not to use it as an excuse. I think it is too easy to do that. I know I have been tempted to do it once or twice when things have been really hard but I've not done it. In the long term the only person I hurt by using it as an excuse is myself because I limit what I can do. I consciously DO NOT tell people I have aspergers.

 

I do get some interesting feedback occasionally though. This is some feedback I got from a job I left 5 years ago. To be fair I have taken out the positive stuff. I knew I had Aspergers, they didnt.

• Has skills in abundance. However the technician who can deal with the issues without getting personally involved & remain cool through these issues will always be seen in the most postive light.
• Whether she is busy or not is generally perceived from an observers perspective as not doing much. In terms of career progression this is bad as senior mgrs form perceptions based on what they see.
• Perception of working hard on tasks she is interested in, to the negative impact of routine work
• Doesnt suffer fools gladly and this shows in dealings with those preceived as "fools"
• Very creative - great presentation ideas.
• Seems to delight in antagonizing/being difficult with some people
• We all have a level of disdain for senior management - need to be able to hide it and work around it
• Very team focused rather than 'big picture' as well, and will promote her interest at other peoples expense.
• Not comfortable with management questioning teams role/resources. Sadly this is a game that has to be played
• If she could chill out and be level all of the time, would make dealing with her much easier. Currently dont know whether she will be as nice as pie, or bite your head off

I actually asked for this feedback from my team when I resigned.

 

 

Noetic - Great attitude... although I guess I have to say that.

[Mumble]

Ok, at the risk of coming across as antagonistic here (and this is not my intention) . . .

 

In the long term the only person I hurt by using it as an excuse is myself because I limit what I can do. I consciously DO NOT tell people I have aspergers.

 

Is there not a huge difference between not using Asperger's as an excuse and issues of disclosure?

 

I'm dealing with issues of disclosure at the moment (to my university) because unless people have knowledge of 'who I am', I cannot expect them to support me in responding to my needs and allowing me to fulfil my potential. As a result of my AS, there are aspects of my life that I need support with; this is not using ASD as an excuse, but understanding my strengths and limitations.

 

I am not limiting what I am doing, but I am recognising that because of my neurological differences I need support to pitch myself as an equal in a neurotypical social world. As ASDs are 'hidden disabilities' we cannot expect people to understand without giving them the knowledge and understanding to work with. What they choose to do with that information is then up to them. By telling (the right people), you are not excusing, but informing; you are giving the NT 'eyes' to see what is not obvious, and allowing them to work with your strengths rather than constantly highlight your weaknesses. This is not using AS as an excuse, it is what NTs do all the time.

[Bard]

I'm a mainstream, NT teacher with an AS boy of 12. Mumble, yet again, you've explained clearly and accurately what some of the issues are. As parents, we spend hours and days trying to explain how AS may affect a child in the school situation, and in the wider social environment. Why do we do it?

 

" As a result of my AS, there are aspects of my life that I need support with; this is not using ASD as an excuse, but understanding my strengths and limitations."

 

" As ASDs are 'hidden disabilities' we cannot expect people to understand without giving them the knowledge and understanding to work with."

 

" You are not excusing, but informing; you are giving the NT 'eyes' to see what is not obvious, and allowing them to work with your strengths rather than constantly highlight your weaknesses."

 

 

Some people are arrogant, poor team players, ambitious and ruthless when reaching their goals, to the point of ignoring and exploiting others intentionally.

Others are highly aggressive and love to challenge anything that threatens their concept of themselves as the dominant voice.

Others are lazy, and will pick and choose what they do in order to avoid anything they don't feel like doing.

 

This causes anger, resentment, prejudice and a poor working environment because as a team or group, you need to feel that everyone is taking a valid part. If there are reasons that can untangle some of the perceived weaknesses, then they need to be shared and explained. Otherwise, all that happens is difference becomes a problem, people become isolated from each other, not strengths but weaknesses are remembered.

As a teacher, in order to build a classroom environment that is supportive to all, respectful of difference and tolerant to diversity, I need to know things about my children. Not just AS, but all the other elements that go to make up a human being. That way I can adapt, engineer, highlight, use different strategies and do my job properly. That's not making excuses for them, that's enabling them all, NT, ASD, EAL, EBD, CP, Dyslexics, Asthmatics, Gifted, you name it we got it, to be a part of a community.

 

And as Mumble said, this next opinion is not meant to upset anyone, or be a generalisation. It's just a small thought, based on over two decades of working with children.

 

But, of course, if you never tell anyone, so no one can ever make an attempt to make provision for you, or begin to try and understand why certain activities or events are more challenging for you than for another individual, or try to assist in any way, then it may be easier for an AS individual to use AS as an excuse to themselves to avoid situations and people that they find difficult.

 

Karen T said:

He will sometimes say that something is difficult for him because of the AS (he's usually right), but as he's only 8 I think he's developing self-awareness about the condition and accepting what it means to him personally.

 

Mine does too. Sometimes, he needs to be shown how to work through the difficulties in a AS friendly way.

Sometimes, though rarely, we choose not to deal with it at this particular time, but recognise that the problem hasn't disappeared and will be tackled at some point in the future.

And sometimes, he's a 12 year old boy who is using AS as an excuse, and that is perfectly normal and dealt with accordingly!

Edited June 17, 2007 by Bard

[bid]

If/when I get a formal dx (oooooh, I've had my date through!! ) I shall be quite happy to tell people I have AS.

 

We have always been open about my DS with other people as he's grown up, and I have seen at first hand the problems that can be caused when parents 'hide' from the dx.

 

However, as an adult it will be entirely up to him whether he chooses to tell people.

 

For myself, I am proud to be who I am (at long last). I will be open about my AS because I think it can only be a positive thing in the long-term for the world to see that people with AS can have jobs, get married, have children etc. How can we ask for equality and acceptance if we don't show ourselves? I don't see AS as something shameful, it is something to be celebrated because it is part of the wonderful diversity of the human condition.

 

Bid (AKA The Lipstick Aspie! )

Edited June 17, 2007 by bid

[KMC]

Mumble - I guess I chose not to tell people because there is always the chance that their perception or understanding of my differences will impact their attitude to me. I dont see my Apsergers as being a disability... more of a "difference" than a "disability." In the same way that I have had to learn to adapt when I have lived in different countries, I need to learn to adapt as part of my everyday life. In retrospect, it makes some of my achievements even more important to me.

 

Bard and Bid, I've accepted that I have Aspergers and I know there are things that I am limited in understanding. I dont feel that I hide who I am but I am very conscious that although I dont limit myself, other people will limit me. Right now I am near the top of what I do because I have a reputation for calling things as I see them. I dont want people to think "She's disabled" and then treat me differently and I know that people will do that.

 

Where I do find myself struggling, I will always find someone who will help me. If I dont know how to deal with something or I am frustrated with something, there is always someone there to get advice from. The thought of putting a label on myself is not something I want to do.

 

Dont know if I have explained myself properly here...

 

 

KC

[bid]

Why do you see it as a label, KMC?

 

Bid

[KMC]

Good Question...

 

Ultimately, I am me and like everyone else in this world, I have some things about me that are different to other people. Specifically those things are how I relate to people, my level of focus etc etc. I believe people should accept that without having to give it a name because that is just me.

 

I may not be the most demonstrative person in the world, I may not be the most empathetic person. There are times when I will struggle but then everyone does...

 

The Aussies out there might recognise this... It's part of a song that was written by an ex-Aussie Rules footballer called Jacko and as he says... "I'm an individual"

 

 

If you're lucky some day you might see me on the street

My crystal clear complexion is as snow white as a sheet

'Cause some say I'm a genius, to others I'm a loon

But someday there'll be people like me walking on the moon

If you think you've got the nerve to put me in my place

I think that I should warn you, I'm not just a pretty face

 

I'm an individual - you can't fool me

An indi-bl**dy-vidual - you can't fool me

A genuine original - you can't fool me

I keep an open mind 'cause I'm thinkin' all the time

[Bard]

Where I do find myself struggling, I will always find someone who will help me. If I dont know how to deal with something or I am frustrated with something, there is always someone there to get advice from.

 

I think that is wonderful, and I would love that to be a possibility for all of us.

 

If you're London-based, why not join us at Greenwich on 14th July?

Edited June 17, 2007 by Bard

[KMC]

Bard,

 

There is ALWAYS someone to ask, whether it be this forum or out in the big wide world.

 

My ex-boss (now a good friend) is the best people person I know. I still ask her how to deal with my staff when I get lost. I live in the UK, she lives in Australia. If I have a problem, I email her. An example is below (Apologies for the length)

 

 

From: ***** ******

Sent: Wednesday, 31 May 2006 6:22 AM

To: ******* ******

Subject: Wanted: Some advice from the Master!

Importance: High

 

 

Heya

 

Need some advice... I have two really touchy feelly people at work who are really pissing me off and I am not dealing with either of them well.

 

The first is one of my team leads. She is very process orientated and constantly wants to put processes around things and get them 100% signed off. Unfortunately some of the things she is talking about dont necessarily work well in that sort of environment. I, on the other hand, would rather put a loose framework around it to start with and then tighten things up as we go. This mainly involves interaction between her team and another team. She is so anal that she wants to put "ownership" around who fills in which cells in a spreadsheet. I cant be arsed and my response is that we will work with the other team to get it sorted. I think her issue here is "responsibility." She is also very touchy feely so I have to deal with her carefully. It annoys the ###### out of me as I dont have the time to spare at the moment to do this. Ultimately her team is not delivering so I have been focusing most of my energy on her team.

 

She wants to do the things she enjoys doing but not the work that needs to be done. eg. She is learning Access (but has no idea of a database and creates databases as flat files) - The same things could be achieved via Excel. She will waste hours on this database and on haveing meetings with her team to work out the scope but wont focus on the thing that I really need her to deliver... the DATA. I give her things to do and they dont get delivered so I end up having to take them off her.

 

On Friday I told her to drop doing the database and that I would pick it up with a Developer. What does she do? Spends the whole weekend working on it after I have told her to leave it alone.

 

I also asked her for a report on Friday to show me what chunks of data we are missing from the business. Did I get this?? NOPE. I even started the thing off for her.

 

How do I deal with this? If I say anything she bursts into tears.

 

 

 

The other one is similar... even more anal (and funnily enough, the two of them dont get on). He is another team leader... NOT one of my teams. He send me emails like "someone in your team sent me an email that didnt have the app name in the subject field in the following format App_Name_AppNumber_Issue." I kid you not. He also sends me multiple emails asking me for things that he asked me for 2 hours before hand. I very nearly lost it today when he asked if I would be able to deliver something which I was in the process of doing. Infact I stopped doing it to read his email about me doing it. GRRRRRR. I have complained to his manager about him harrassing me and his manager has spoken to him. Apparently the guys bottom lip was quivering when he was told.

 

This is obviously not good for any ongoing relationship....

 

Any advice from the master??? I cant believe people like this exist and I havent run into them before. Maybe I have but not in this capacity. Ultimately I would have hired neither of them. Both of them talk too much and achieve too little for my likeing.

 

Thoughts and Advice welcome!!

 

 

And the response:

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: ******* ******

Sent: 01 June 2006 15:10

To: ***** ******

Subject: RE: Wanted: Some advice from the Master!

 

 

Difficult. Unfortunately these characters take a lot of time.

 

Team lead one

Tears are bad. Walking on eggshells around such people is a pain in the butt. Ok I'll suggest a game plan. I think most of it is about signals.

 

Firstly apart from the anal, she's very touchy which probably means self-doubt and/or low self esteem. Now you might think this is ###### (and for people like us it is) but believe me this stuff does have an impact on such individuals.

Non-confrontational environments for all one-on-one discussions - go to her desk, or coffee shop or meeting room (no glass walls!)

Ensure you are equal or lower status position, e.g., chair with no arms, don't sit at the head of the table, split the coffee bill (unless you think she won't see it as dominant for you to pay)

Refrain from the empowerment body language, e.g, no hands behind the head, arms crossed, leaning back in chair - you know the sort of thing.

Try to mirror her body language, e.g., legs crossed same, pick up drink at same time, etc. - it suggests empathy.

Hands visible, e.g., above the table and better still, palms up - expressing openness and transparency.

If she looks like about to go into tears meltdown, cease immediately, calmly suggesting things along the lines of "we've done this topic enough for today", "you look tired go catch some air (or coffee)" and "I'll book you again tomorrow". This will give her a chance to sleep on what you've said thus far, and perhaps get a grip. The follow-up meeting must be the next day to maintain the pressure. If she does a 'call in sick next day', email me - this needs discipline and tears don't count - this is tough time.

If you can bring yourself to it, start all sessions with something personally topical, e.g "so what did you do on the weekend?" and try for a banter response. Yes I know its hard with some people!

Addressing the priorities. This is just my way so feel free to tweak/disregard whatever.

 

You need to start a micro-management approach - sorry about that - very time consuming. But you can't do it for her - it will only make it all worse - I've only done that with contractors I'm just kicking out the door - you need to salvage the talent in this employee if possible. You didn't say if you wanted to keep her - I have advice on how to get rid of someone too - let me know and I'll write up that game plan. Saving her will take some effort.

 

Tell her you are trying a new management technique of getting a better handle on what's going on by having regular one-on-ones with your direct reports - if she will notice it's just her, you will need to do a couple with the others too, at least for a little while, until she trusts you - she doesn't understand and/or trust you at the moment this is the problem. Schedule a reoccurring meeting, weekly preferably, and stick to the day/time. She's anal and lacking esteem - her meeting is extremely important - unless there is sickness, death, major-major crisis it must happen at the appointed time. Inconsistency is death. If the meeting fails to meet the appointed time reschedule as close as possible and apologise for failing to keep the agreed appointment.

 

Ask what she's got on her list of things to do and to bring the list to the meeting (giving her organisational need some space). Listen, as you get her to tell you briefly the problems she's facing with each one (if she rambles you may have to tactfully more her on by summarising) - explain you are establishing a big picture so together you can work out the appropriate way forward. In the initial list, if she says she has a priority you disagree with, let it go until the list is all out there. Let her talk - she needs to feel appreciated.

 

She's got that paper list in front of her - so work with that - point to your priority item/s on her list (as I said, you may think this is ###### but it gives her empowerment) and add items if necessary. Do not delete (unless she suggests) just lower prioritise. Don't say they are your priorities - they are the business priorities (implying not your personal decision). Ask her input on how you can meet whatever goals you have. The first one of these meetings will be the hardest - the first should take no more than an hour or you need to do a part 2. Subsequent meetings may be shorter - depends on the person. Agree some small achievable goals for the following week. Enquire about development needs of her staff to help the group achieve the goals. Suggest what can be done to address these and agree a plan.

 

Unless you've had to move into discipline phase (talk to me about this - it can get ugly), focus on the collective is what I try to do. If the goals aren't achieved by the next week, Impersonally discuss what factors hindered the delivery (focusing on actions/events not individuals' abilities). Suppress frustration. Discuss/agree mitigation of the issues and set small goals again. If you absolutely must have something done you will need to take it off her, but you can't do it - you will go back to square one. Express the business escalating priorities, she has much to do, Fred Nerk can take this one off your plate, scenario. Emphasis on business needs and meeting them.

 

Working on the weekend on something she wants to, is her decision/problem and just ignore it. Unless she brings it up, in which case you say "thanks very much, I appreciate you conscientiousness, but it really isn't a prime deliverable for us at the moment" - firm but fair stuff and, without making a big deal of it, try not to say it in front of her staff if you can help it. If she brings it up in her initial list thing - try very hard to ignore and move onto the next topic.

 

If she works late/weekend on something you've identified as a priority, do the 1-minute-manager thing of giving a quick smile and low-key compliment in front of people who report to her.

 

If she says she wants to do something, or not do something, that you don't/do want her too, say importunely the role is x, if we can deliver the business goals and have you doing the things you want to be doing then good all around, but at the end of the day the job is this.

 

If it makes her happy also send her on an access course. Perhaps she'll learn what a relational database is.

 

Oh and if she dumps some personal life issues (husband/boyfriend left; whatever) express concern, end pressure about work expectations immediately and recommend her to internal hr for counselling. If she doesn't do it, next weeks meeting you take a hard line. I have some suggestions on this one too. Unfortunately, I've been there with this one.

 

Your other anal dude.

Come up with some non-personal non-inflammatory worded email set paragraphs that express things like "I'm sure you appreciate I need to allocate service resources across x and need to prioritise according to business priorities" "as our resources are fully allocated we often don't have the ability to respond immediately to enquiries" "we acknowledge all our customers requests for service as soon as we are able and endeavour to keep them apprised of changes in expected delivery" If you can push enquiries back to a central service desk do this too. "to keep my technical staff focused on resolving/delivering on service requests it is more efficient if enquiries are lodged via the service desk who can update you and liaise regarding any change of priority of the issue." You get the picture

 

Take a little time on the next one to deliver such a reply - always non personal - always about meeting customer needs efficiently, etc.. After that initial response, batch process any emails from him - say at the end of the day. Or better still respond at 11pm. He's anal - he'll spot the time stamp. He then knows how hard you work and maybe might give you some space.

 

When he sends the below mentioned details email, respond with positive/negative/positive format. Initially complimenting him on his teams processes as it appears they do some clever parsing re rules, or something, regarding the specific format of the subject line. Then comments that this process unfortunately hinders your staff being able to deliver/interact with his team in some way. Then offer to meet to discuss his team's processes to come us with a mutually agreeable process.

 

This tends to disarm the enemy. If you want to talk to them about how to improve things they tend to back down. If/when you do talk to him, have process things you want him to follow with your team/s too. You then get the proverbial win/win stuff.

 

These are junior staff

These people are junior employees. They don't have the experience or sophistication that we do in just getting on with it. Unfortunately you have to care for them somewhat like children. I haven't had anyone cry on me or be quite so anal but not too far off.

 

Go buy the "One Minute Manager" its a very quick read. Extremely basic. But it gives the basic building blocks for making junior staff happy. Anyone who spots you are doing the one-minute-manager stuff won't be needing it!

 

Hope this helps

 

 

There are people out there in the world who are really good at the things I'm not good at. I can leverage off them and I do.

[KMC]

My biggest point with the post above is that I could not have done what needed to be done and I needed the advice.

 

The out come of it, for anyone who is interested is that the one that worked for me chilled out a bit, but I later got her moved to another role where I didnt have to deal with her because it took too much energy to deal with her. Unfair? Well she actually prefers the work in the new job. I still talk to her occasionally.

 

The other guy got fired for something he did that was not related to this at all.

 

 

BTW - Since I live opposite Greenwich, if I am not working on the 14th, I may well come over.

 

 

cheers

 

 

KC

[bid]

I only skimmed your long post, but one thing that did occur to me: quite a few AS qualities in the two colleagues with whom you were having problems??

 

I have found that with other spectrumy people, at times we either chime in our spectrumness, or absolutely drive each other to distraction. Makes you think what Aspergia would really be like if it existed!

 

Bid

 

Hope to see you at Greenwich!

Edited June 17, 2007 by bid

[KMC]

The female, I dont think was AS... She has a lack of focus, constantly talks and drives everyone mad. (Not just me). She is very touchy feely. Luckily her new boss is the same. She had been newly promoted to the job she was doing (not by me) and was exremely unsure of herself. I had just taken over the project and was restructuring teams at the time and that was part of her issue as she felt that with the restructure she was losing her "power" which she wasnt.

 

The guy was more lack of cultural understanding. He was from the middle east where women do as they are told (His attitude - not just my comment). I wasnt doing as he had told me. We learned lots more about him before he got fired, partially for telling some of the women in the office how they should dress, what perfume they werent allowed to wear... (the list goes on) but also for doing something that although not illegal was verging on it.

 

If they sound like AS people then it is probably more my slant on things than what was really doing on.