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di30

fluent speech/aspergers

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:) Hi

 

MY SON HAD HIS FIRST APPOINTMENT WITH CAMHS THIS WEEK AS HE WAS REFERRED FROM AFTER BEING WITH ANOTHER SPECIALIST (CHILD PAEDIATRICIAN) SINCE LAST AUGUST, WHO HAD REFERRED HIM TO THE ABOVE TEAM FOR THE OFFICIAL DIAGNOSIS OF ASPERGERS, SO WHERE ALL THE INFORMATION, RECORDED ASSESSMENTS, SCHOOL RECORDS AND REPORTS FROM SENCO AND EP ETC WERE SENT ON TO CAMHS TOO.

 

THE YOUNG MALE DOCTOR HE SEEN SAID MY SON DOES HAVE ALL TRAITS REGARDING (AS) ALSO HIGH ANXIETY LEVELS, BUT SAID HE WAS REALLY SURPRISED HOW WELL SPOKEN MY SON IS WITH FLUENT SPEAKING ETC (HE IS 12), SO WE DIDN'T MAKE ANY ACTUAL REMARKS ABOUT THIS, BUT I DIDN'T THINK THIS CAME INTO IT, FOR INSTANCE 'LUKE JACKSON' AND I HAVE ALSO SPOKEN TO OTHERS WHO'S CHILDREN HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH FLUENT SPEECH/SPEAKING.

 

PLEASE COULD SOMEONE JUST ADVISE ME ?

 

THE YOUNG DOCTOR WAS POSSIBLY A TEAM FROM SHO (SENIOR HOUSE OFFICER) THEN THE INFORMATION I ASSUME IS PASSED ON TO THE MAIN DOCTOR, WHO LOOKS INTO THIS.

ON THE LETTER REGARDING THIS APOINTMENT IT DID STATE FROM SHO TO THE DOCTOR, BUT THIS DOCTOR WAS NOT THE ONE MENTIONED ON THE ACTUAL LETTER.

 

THANK YOU I LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING FROM YOU, I AM AWARE EVERYONE WILL VARY WITH THE SPEECH SIDE OF THINGS, BUT THE DOCTOR SAID IT AS IF HIS SPEECH AND THE WAY MY SON TALKS SHOULD HAVE BEEN A PROBLEM IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.

 

CHEERS. X :thumbs:

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Hi Di :D Now our doc at CAMHS said they can't dx M with Aspergers as he has a speech and language disorder so it has to be dx as Autism,as people with Aspergers are really confident fluent speakers with no speech problems :rolleyes: Wish they'd all sing from the same hymnsheet!!!

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Hi Di :D Now our doc at CAMHS said they can't dx M with Aspergers as he has a speech and language disorder so it has to be dx as Autism,as people with Aspergers are really confident fluent speakers with no speech problems :rolleyes: Wish they'd all sing from the same hymnsheet!!!

 

Hi Deedee

Thank you for your reply. :thumbs:

 

I see what you mean, I was confused on this, I assumed the way Dan's doctor went on about it was my son shouldn't be speaking fluent if have aspergers.

It could be he is ruling other issues out and this may be the way they just deal with it.

 

Although we kept quiet when the doctor said this but my hubby thinks the doctor doesn't know anything about (AS) and under experienced due to how young he is, but I did explain to my hubby he must know something about it or he wouldn't be dealing with Daniel.

 

Thanks for letting me know, as I'm sure I have read up on this on a few sites, but needed reassuring from others who are used to dealing with these issues like yourself, thank you again.

 

Cheers Di x :thumbs::thumbs:

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>:D<<'> No prob Di I think there's quite a few AS parents here who can advise further on the criteria different docs use for DX .When you first start at CAMHS I think they just collect info to start more than actually doing anything! We were under them for almost 2 years before we got a firm dx as we were passed round 4 different docs..we seemed to go through every test known to man as well lol ... Once dx we were then cast adrift but now been rereferred and getting much better support this time round although still no therapy as such just trying out new strategies (well I like to humour our Psych as she's so nice but they're mainly things we've already tried!!!!) Its just a relief to be able to talk to someone who actually 'gets' it for a change,she understands M pretty well and she kicks butt at the school :notworthy:

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children, and indeed adults with an ASD will have some degree of impairment in language and communication, AS usually present with a lesser degree of impairment although it will still be present. The thing to remember is that there is a big difference between social language and functional language. functional language has rules and regulations that can be learnt and as we know AS children love rules so often there functional language is good but they may never quite get the social use of language correct but without having long indepth conversations with them you may not notice this and think they have a full and comprehensive grasp of language.

 

hope that make a little sense (sorry its late and just got in from a very merry night out ;) )

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Hi all -

just to add to Summertime's post, another major 'diagnostic' difference is that AS as described by Asperger himself did not involve any delay in the acquisition of language so there's this sort of rule about 'speech at usual time' = AS, delayed speech = ASD'...

I don't think the boundaries can be that precise for all sorts of reasons, not least because of those 'social/pragamatic/functional/expressive/responsive' style considerations already highlighted. Also, what about something like elective mutism, where a child doesn't speak until the age of say 4 or 5 (as has been suggested for Einstein(?)), but then starts speaking at a level well in advance of most peers, or situations where diagnosis is made later in life and nobody remembers any significant delay?

In real terms, I don't think there's any difference between AS and HFA, and that the distinctions that are made can be quite damaging, placing unreal expectations of 'problem free' lives on those with AS (and debarring access to some support services) while undermining the expectations/abilities of those in the latter group.

I think 'labels' are a necessary evil for accessing services and support, but in the case of AS/ASD they often work against the best interests of the individual by focussing intervention and support on unrealistic medical models rather than full holistic assessment...

 

L&P

 

BD :D

 

PS: Summertime - hope that merry night out was a good one! Can't imagine what you might have been celebrating! :lol:

Edited by baddad

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I agree with Summertime. B has a wide vocabulary and good use of sentence structure and grammar.

He's got two very educated parents, and a highly articulate sister who is four years older than him. He's surrounded by good models of language and has no problems with formal, functional speech.

That said, he has real difficulties with social language, understanding the underlying meanings and the nuances of speech. He can't recognise sarcasm, or when people are getting bored with him. He can understand similies, but not metaphors or irony. He punctuates his written work accurately, but his spelling is rather phonetic still. In a situation with other 12 year olds, he comes across as a linguistically precocious 8 year old, got the words but not the knowledge.

The young doctor may not be an AS specialist, just someone who is very interested in the field and is learning as he goes. Professionals have to learn about our children if they are to be of any use to us, but don't be worried about politely questioning his understanding, and if you can find references to back you up, so much the better.

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In real terms, I don't think there's any difference between AS and HFA, and that the distinctions that are made can be quite damaging, placing unreal expectations of 'problem free' lives on those with AS (and debarring access to some support services) while undermining the expectations/abilities of those in the latter group.

:thumbs::thumbs: - sorry can't think of anything to add to that, I totally agree. There are some profesionals who will argue that these are different (although if you start looking into the statistical methods used to delinate distinctive groups it all becomes a bit 'suspect' - a case of reporting the stats needed to present your argument and hide any contradictory 'evidence') but the underlying diagnostic criteria, apart from significant speech delay, are identical.

 

As for speaking fluently, yes I can speak fluently, but alongside this there are qualitative differences in my speech, and these differences become substantial in stressful situations. A situation I'm comfortable in (a small group maths based lecture with limited distraction) I'll talk confidently and probably appear more confident than other students; no one would have a clue about me being AS because I'm happy with the subject matter and there are clear rules regarding questionning and answering. A situation I'm uncomfortable in (social 'get to know each other' buffet things) and it becomes very clear that there is a difference.

 

I think what Bard has said about understanding is vital. It's quite easy (believe me, I've had 25+ years of practice!) to appear to understand and not to have a clue. My biggest difficulty is with metaphoric and rhetorical language. I take metaphors literally (or where I can identify a metaphor is being used but can't understand it get stressed and upset) and I answer rhetorical questions (which can result in some very tricky situations because people think I'm being rude but I'm giving them a truthful answer to their 'question'). I do think however it takes time to see these differences, which will be why the doctor won't have identified them in the course of a short approintment.

 

Mumble :)

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Guest Lya of the Nox

dd is like bards little un

very artilculate, and well spoken, and she can read with 'feeling'!

but sometimes what she says meakes no sense at all

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HI AND THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR REPLIES. :thumbs:

 

FORGOT TO MENTION I HAVE AN AUTISTIC 41 YEAR OLD BROTHER NO SPEECH WHATSOEVER, HE WILL EITHER POINT OR DRAW PICTURES FOR COMMUNICATION, 'BLESS HIM' WE ALL LOVE HIM TO BITS AND WOULDN'T CHANGE HIM FOR THE WORLD.

 

AGAIN THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR HELPFUL REPLIES.

DI :thumbs::thumbs:

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dd is like bards little un

very artilculate, and well spoken, and she can read with 'feeling'!

but sometimes what she says meakes no sense at all

 

C is the same, he is like a walking dictionary and acquires many new words a day. He loves big words and words with "x"s in them. But he uses them in endearingly incorrect ways. He just likes the sound of them. I will always miss the "unorthodox" phase - used to describe things he didn't like. His teacher was rather surprised when he said that he couldn't do his handwriting because it was unorthodox. We have entered a new phase of scientific terminology.

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Fluent speech doesn't always mean it makes a whole lot of sense. "Well-spoken" can easily mean "copied from books" or "rehearsed/stilted". Sounds a bit like the guy who made that comment only thought "Autism = doesn't speak" and was surprised your son did speak?

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I'm diagnosed with Aspergers and whilst my communication difficulties aren't as prominent as my son't, they are there. They're just a bit more subtle. Basically, for myself they are:

Possible selective mutism as a young child, my mum says I only really ever went to her for help and hardly spoke to anyone else.

When I did speak to more people I would usually speak through my mum if it was another adult. Now I often speak through my husband, eg "would your dad like a coffee?" when FIL is right next to us.

Quite fast talker when I get going, used to be extremely fast.

Occassions of hearing the words but not understanding them, like I'm hearing a foreign language.

Frequent occasions of understanding and wanting to speak but being unable to get the words out.

Difficulty expressing wants and needs and initiating.

When talking about a subject I am confident in, having a tendency to keep talkign without realising I should let the other person speak.

Not being able to see when to enter a conversation with more than two people in it.

Pausing in odd places when talking.

No definable accent.

Talking about things mid topic without an explanation.

Basically I can go from sounding like I'm quoting from an 1890's textbook to barely being able to get any words out dependant on the circumstances.

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Hi My son mathew has a dx of Aspergers and was dx at 5. (he is now nearly 7) Matthew speaks very well always has done and spoke in sentences since 17 mths, however Matthew does use alot of words that seem ' too old' for him and I don't really think he understands all that he says. also the way he speaks, he interupts so doesn't understand 'cues' as to when he is supposed to talk. and also interupts and gets loud when someone is on the phone.

 

so with AS there isn't any delay in speak usually but it doesn't mean to say they don't have AS, if that makes any sense!

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Hi My son mathew has a dx of Aspergers and was dx at 5. (he is now nearly 7) Matthew speaks very well always has done and spoke in sentences since 17 mths, however Matthew does use alot of words that seem ' too old' for him and I don't really think he understands all that he says. also the way he speaks, he interupts so doesn't understand 'cues' as to when he is supposed to talk. and also interupts and gets loud when someone is on the phone.

 

so with AS there isn't any delay in speak usually but it doesn't mean to say they don't have AS, if that makes any sense!

 

HI LizC :D

 

Yes I know what your saying, and this does sound like my son now age 12, even when the was around 4/5 he would come out of the blue with these long words, and even spell long words correctly. Yet the smaller and what we call easier words he would be stuck.

At home he would rather read a magazine than a novel, although he does collect them, and when we go out he carries a thick history book about wherever we go even if he doesn't plan on reading it.

And interupting he does a lot of that, of where we tell him he must wait until we finish speaking ourselves, he then gets worked up and says 'no one listens to me' !!

Same on the phone too.

 

Cheers Di x :thumbs:

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