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Does anyone have any info on what they call a 'managed move' from the child's existing school (with which there are too many problems) to another? And especially what happens if the school of one's choice is full in that year group? Can one still insist on a managed move then, or is that the end of it?

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A managed move is where the child stays on role in their present school but has a 'try out' at the new school, we usually go for 6 weeks and the placement should be regularly reviewed during that time. If at any time the new school feels they aren't the right place for the child they can call off the move and the child will go back to their old school. If however things go well then after the trial period the child can be enrolled permenantly at the new school

 

we have done several managed moves with ixed results, we find that children coming to us often do well as we put in loads of support from the start, however we have not had any success the other way round, this is probably because of two reasons, we put in loads of support and if that doesnt work then its unlikely to work elsewhere and also we've found from experience other schools have often taken them and just expected them to cope with no support at all

 

If the other school is full then a managed move wouldnt work as there wouldnt be a place at the end of it, they would be able to do the trial period as the child would stay on role elsewhere therefore not eaking any addmission rules but I cant see the benfit if it they couldnt eventually take him on

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Thanks Summertime, that clearly explains things. Not good news though for us, as that school is the only other school my 10 year old could go to... and matters at his present school aren't well at all.......... I simply don't know what to do now.

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you could always put your name on the waiting list, speak to the HT at the other school, the summer holidays is often a time when families choose to move house or school so there may not be a place now but there coulb be come september.

 

If there is a place available you could then try the managed move, if your sigs upto date then I take it he is still not in school, have the EWO been helpful cus if you have a good one they are often a valuable source of support for a managed move and can set them up for you.

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A managed move is where the child stays on role in their present school but has a 'try out' at the new school, we usually go for 6 weeks and the placement should be regularly reviewed during that time. If at any time the new school feels they aren't the right place for the child they can call off the move and the child will go back to their old school. If however things go well then after the trial period the child can be enrolled permenantly at the new school

 

we have done several managed moves with ixed results, we find that children coming to us often do well as we put in loads of support from the start, however we have not had any success the other way round, this is probably because of two reasons, we put in loads of support and if that doesnt work then its unlikely to work elsewhere and also we've found from experience other schools have often taken them and just expected them to cope with no support at all

 

If the other school is full then a managed move wouldnt work as there wouldnt be a place at the end of it, they would be able to do the trial period as the child would stay on role elsewhere therefore not eaking any addmission rules but I cant see the benfit if it they couldnt eventually take him on

Sorry not offering any advice but have found this thread really interesting as we are in the same predicament, its the hols now for us but we have found a school that will take our son, we had a meeting with his present school before we found this school and well it all went pear shaped and the teachers ended up walking out the meeting!!! his present school have put support in but it just doesnt seem to be working for our son at the moment i personaly dont trust them but dont want him to move because of his freinds. His old school we have told that we are thinking about taking this other place the head seems to want that now too but i dont really want to put all my eggs in one basket so to speak, because the new school although have been very helpful are at the present time in special measures(since the new head tho have now improved and he has very good track record 15 years of bringing schools out of S M) but we are worried as my son is very advanced for his age and are worried if the teaching is not adequate then this wil create more probs) the new school has just employed an advanced skils teacher tho so we hoped this may help. Sorry didnt mean to hi jack the thread just really poignant to us at the moment and also any advice would be great thx Mrs F x

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schools in special measures are often a lot better off than other school, they get more money and a lot of support as they will be ofsteded regularly they need to be working at a consistantly high standard.

 

However having an advanced skills teacher onboard doesnt necessarily mean better teaching for all the children as they will probably be confined to one class, also Im dubious about the benefits to the children in their own class as although they will get a high standard of teaching on one subject (ast's only cover one area) but they are out of the school for 20% of the time if you then add PPA time into the equation it means they will only be in the class for 3.5 hours a week, something which ASD children often find difficult to cope with

 

If you want to go for a managed move you should be able to get in touch with your EWO who may be able to arrange it although it may be difficult to arrange over the holidays but worth a shot

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schools in special measures are often a lot better off than other school, they get more money and a lot of support as they will be ofsteded regularly they need to be working at a consistantly high standard.

 

However having an advanced skills teacher onboard doesnt necessarily mean better teaching for all the children as they will probably be confined to one class, also Im dubious about the benefits to the children in their own class as although they will get a high standard of teaching on one subject (ast's only cover one area) but they are out of the school for 20% of the time if you then add PPA time into the equation it means they will only be in the class for 3.5 hours a week, something which ASD children often find difficult to cope with

 

If you want to go for a managed move you should be able to get in touch with your EWO who may be able to arrange it although it may be difficult to arrange over the holidays but worth a shot

Surely 20% means 1 day out of 5 and PPA isnt that 1 half day so do you mean 3.5 days a week rather than 3.5 hours? The schools poor areas are maths and science so i am presuming the newly appointed AST would be skilled in this area to be of any benefit to the school, and maths and science are the areas (especially maths)that my son excels in. It is interesting though what you say about schools in special measures i never really thought of it like that. My son did find supply teaching a real problem last year but so did al the children and beleive me there were a lot of differaent ones, but once they had a little more consistency with one regular supply teacher he did get to like her although his problems at school had already escalated by then, so i think maybe 2 consistent teachers may be ok unless there is one that he doesnt really get on with of course, but this could happen with one teacher copuldnt it. BTW my son has no diagnosis and seems to cope well with change at home as long as you tell him your plans hes fine. I am not sure if the AST will be his teacher though but surely she is going to help raise standards overall and then at least the other teachers will have someone to go to for help. My son is already at a level 5 and hes just gone 8 and i think his teachers at present are realy struggling with what to do with him as i must say i can appreciate especially if this is not there area so to speak, but shouldnt they be calling in some expert advice to help rather than just plodding along.(his teacher last year(she was one of the good guys)told me that they truthfully didnt know what to do with him) they have not been so honest this year just blaming my son for the problems. ANY advice on the xtra help they should be seeking? as they just dont let on about the help that is out there. Thanks Mrs F x

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sorry, yes of course i mean 3.5 days :huh:

 

without knowing what his specific difficulties are then I cant really advice on where they should be going, but there are plenty of agencies/professionals who could be involved, ed psych, behaviour support, SENSS etc. If he had a diagnosis then the autism outreach team could be involved but not without a diagnosis or in our county being on the way to getting one

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sorry, yes of course i mean 3.5 days :huh:

 

without knowing what his specific difficulties are then I cant really advice on where they should be going, but there are plenty of agencies/professionals who could be involved, ed psych, behaviour support, SENSS etc. If he had a diagnosis then the autism outreach team could be involved but not without a diagnosis or in our county being on the way to getting one

Hi yes ed psych has been involved, i asked them for behaiour support but they have stalled on that(i asked them after they gave him a 16 day exclusion in march, my point is surely if his behaviour was that bad they would be glad of the help) they are still not willing, waht is SENSS? the kind of support i mean they need help with is perhaps to help with what to do with him because of him being already at the expected level 3 years early(thats what i meant when i said the teacher didnt know what to do with him i meant academically) what support should they be seeking to help with that? i will be honest i am not realy taht conceerned about his behaviour as i feel they have exagerated it, because if it was that bad they would be seeking behaviour support. Or perhaps they know why hes behaving badly because its because he is bored (he often says he is) then surely they would be at fault and they wouldnt want that would they. Sorry i have a real downer on them as they have treated us quite badly this last year. thx for the advice any more greatly appreciated Mrs F x

 

BTW have you any idea how to some how get him tested myself to see how advanced he really is, as i think sometimes he is much further foward than we think he just seems full of information (i often have to look it up on the internet to see if he is correct and hes usually spot on) hes like a sponge show him once and well hes got it, someone taught him long division at 4 and he could do it staight away and when i asked him when he learnt it he could tell me exactly who it was and on waht visist to there house at what time if the year it was!! and i didnt even know thats where he learnt it myself. Mrs F x

Edited by mrs fussy

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they should surly have had some training on gifted and talented children and how to help them, the staff should be planning for the differing abilities in each class from sen to g&t. there should be a member of staff responsible for g&t so it might be worth asking who it is and having a chat with them

 

my dd is 15 now but had reached level 5's in all 3 subjects at the end of Y3, she's now in Y10 and has 6 gcse's (3 taken at night school)under her belt already, she had the highest CAT scores her high school have ever recorded but she's been kept busy and stretched throughout her education. it can be done its just a case of planning.

 

(senss stands for special educational needs support services)

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they should surly have had some training on gifted and talented children and how to help them, the staff should be planning for the differing abilities in each class from sen to g&t. there should be a member of staff responsible for g&t so it might be worth asking who it is and having a chat with them

 

my dd is 15 now but had reached level 5's in all 3 subjects at the end of Y3, she's now in Y10 and has 6 gcse's (3 taken at night school)under her belt already, she had the highest CAT scores her high school have ever recorded but she's been kept busy and stretched throughout her education. it can be done its just a case of planning.

 

(senss stands for special educational needs support services)

Yes thats just it though in all the time hes been there they havent helped with the G&T other than sending him on one workshop and then saying to me that he is unable to go on anymore because of age stipulation, but the thing is they have said that he is at least in the top 5 of the school for his maths(hes yr 4 september) so how is this fair other children in year 6 are going on them and he is unable to although is more advanced than them, i dont even know who the maths co-ordinator is, and i dont think they have a G&T co - ordinator. Thats why im thinking school change is a good idea especially now as you say a school in special measures will probably be more willing to do something because of the close monitoring, but would this also mean they would be les understanding in the case of beaviour if this was a problem do you think, or would it nmean they would be more likely to put support in? whats your views plz. Mrs F x

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I would say that very much depends on why they are in special measures, if for instance they are struggling with behaviour managment it could well be that they have a big hurdle to overcome and they may not yet have the ability to help with his difficulties.

 

have you read their most recent ofsted report, if so what does it say they are failing in. schools in special measures generally do improve but not overnight so it could be that it isnt the time for your son to join, however if its just a problem with subject areas then thats something that can improve quickly with some quality staff training

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I would say that very much depends on why they are in special measures, if for instance they are struggling with behaviour managment it could well be that they have a big hurdle to overcome and they may not yet have the ability to help with his difficulties.

 

have you read their most recent ofsted report, if so what does it say they are failing in. schools in special measures generally do improve but not overnight so it could be that it isnt the time for your son to join, however if its just a problem with subject areas then thats something that can improve quickly with some quality staff training

Hi no behaviour is not a problem, they are failing mainly in maths and science, the most recent ofsted (the one since new head took over) said they are now making satisfactory progress(the previous one said inadequate progress) so looks like this head is doing the trick, and he has made some major teaching changes and SMT changes have been made too, it said they have recently appointed a new SEN co-ordinator which they feel should make improvements (i have spoken too her and she seemed very willing to listen and help, i started to cry on the phone to her so she probably thinks that i am an emotional wreck too, and also now this AST, but behaviour is not noted anywhere as being a problem in fact it said the children are well behaved in classess although not always challenged enough, but hopefully the teaching changes will now help this, it does seem like the last 6 months there has definatly been an improvement, and at the moment i am more cocerned about his emotional state as his present school (well this year anyway) never seem to celebrate anything good that he does it just all seems negative. He has been on half days since easter and has still made a much progress as the other children if not more so i just think this shows that he does want to learn and try he is not a disruptive child he just wants to be left alone to get on with it, but wants t be listened to too. He is a very strong character and will give his opinion if its wanted or not and i dont think the teacher this year has taken to kindly to that, he is very in your face too but you know shouldnt we just accept that people are different. Mrs F x

 

sorry MIN i have hi jacked your thread i hope you dont mind sorry x

Edited by mrs fussy

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we should be able to accept others differences yes, but unfortunately the worlds not like that yet :(

 

I don't know your son and am generalising her but if a childs behaviour is seen as poor due to social differences e.g. being 'in your face' then I would be trying to teach him those social skills rather than punishing him for his lack of them. some schools have little awareness of how to help them and things go from bad to worse.

 

back to the original question, maybe a managed move may be the best way forward as it gives everyone a chance to try before you buy so to speak

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we should be able to accept others differences yes, but unfortunately the worlds not like that yet :(

 

I don't know your son and am generalising her but if a childs behaviour is seen as poor due to social differences e.g. being 'in your face' then I would be trying to teach him those social skills rather than punishing him for his lack of them. some schools have little awareness of how to help them and things go from bad to worse.

 

back to the original question, maybe a managed move may be the best way forward as it gives everyone a chance to try before you buy so to speak

 

Hi, how come you get it and they dont, this is what we have been telling them for the last 6 months if your going to put support in it needs to be directed at the right thing not what it has now resulted in because you havent helped him with those things in the first place why is that so hard for them to see, especially when i have been telling them, i tell you i think they have wanted it to go wrong(my hubby thinks they are just incapable). I spoke to the school nurse about him recently and she said she thought that was probably where all this behaviour has come from, and since the school have spoken to her they said to me oh perhaps a clean break is the best thing! i thought oh yes probably because you are worried that you may have to address the problem, when speaking to the ed psych we told her this is what we thought the problem was and she said oh perhaps he could do with eg circle of freinds etc..but then she said but i dont want to give the school too much to do at the moment! what the ###### are they doing thats what i want to know.the only trouble is this ed psych will be the same one for the new school. I have spoken to the head of new school and explained what we think the problem is, and he said yes i tend to agree with a child this bright i cant see why the support would need to be in the classroom,he needs some one to how him how to lay etc...i said yes if we sort out the problems on the playground(he has recently made some freinds at old school who accept him for who he is,but finds it difficult to get on with them as he doesnt really know how to and as i said can be very overbearing we do try at home but it doesnt help being an only child and all his cousins are grown up, also he trys to talk to peers about the periodic table and well what 8 yr old is going to find that interesting)and you wont get them in the classroom.The school think they are brilliant(the old one)they did nothing for him before his exclusion and then completely socially isolated him on his return by part time timetable. they think because they have put in 15hrs TA suport in the classroom they are brilliant we keep telling them they need to re-direct the support. Its like tring to treat a stomach bug with tablets for a headachce!!! rant over sorry Mrs F x

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its easier to put support in in the classroom as that support can then help out with other children too, its not quite as easy to put in support elsewher and if support is put in its not always appropriate. Ive seen far too many children being 'helped' with social skills by velcroing a dinnerlady to them at lunchtime, they end up being minded not educated in social skills.

 

there are far too few people with the training to help develop social skills, its not high on the academic agenda, and atm too few teachers are autism aware.

 

I hope things go well for him and that things can move forward xx

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its easier to put support in in the classroom as that support can then help out with other children too, its not quite as easy to put in support elsewher and if support is put in its not always appropriate. Ive seen far too many children being 'helped' with social skills by velcroing a dinnerlady to them at lunchtime, they end up being minded not educated in social skills.

 

there are far too few people with the training to help develop social skills, its not high on the academic agenda, and atm too few teachers are autism aware.

 

I hope things go well for him and that things can move forward xx

Hi thankyou for your kind words, but my childs class teacher has worked in a special needs school with children with aspergers, and she is also a senco (she was senco at her last school, not ths one)his class teacher has dealt with all of this alongside the head, they have not consulted the school named senco at all, i feel if they had the outcome may have been different, perhaps he may get a little more understanding if we move him as present school do not seem bothered about how he feels so i dont really see we have any option really. Thanks again Mrs F x

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don't mean to sound flippant but Ive worked with several polish children this year, but that doesnt mean I can speak polish.

 

as I say too few teachers actually understand asd and the little knowledge they do have is often a dangerous thing especially when they dont even attempt to put their knowledge into practice.

 

sorry if i sound a trifle bitter but Ive worked with a senco who claims to have a good understanging of AS and then made the kind of mistakes that not only infuriated me but also could have done some lasting damage to the child :wallbash:

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don't mean to sound flippant but Ive worked with several polish children this year, but that doesnt mean I can speak polish.

 

Yes i can appreciate your comment above.

 

as I say too few teachers actually understand asd and the little knowledge they do have is often a dangerous thing especially when they dont even attempt to put their knowledge into practice.

 

They have had asd training at the school and the TA that works with himhas a son with aspergers, iknow this doesnt make them an expert but it should mean they ave experience more so than others 9and if they would listen i would tell them how to best help my son but they just wont listen they think theyknow best and keep telling me about their qualifications!!! pity they dont use them

 

 

sorry if i sound a trifle bitter but Ive worked with a senco who claims to have a good understanging of AS and then made the kind of mistakes that not only infuriated me but also could have done some lasting damage to the child :wallbash:

 

No you dont sound bitter, i think this senco probably works at my sons school and has messed him up too, and i have to listen to the head telling me how much my son likes this teacher, so i am afraid i put her right at one meeting and was upfront and said that that was not the case, in front of the teacher, something i wouldnt usually do but there does come a point when you think hang on here you are coming out with this ###### and messing up my son at the same time, you can spout me lies but dont do things that directly affect my son, so i told them so, i dont give two hoots what qualifications they have when they are wrong i am going to tell them so something i should have done much earlier.

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Have you tried the National association for gifted children's web site . They have an advice line too. www.nagcbritain.org.uk

 

Also the LEA should have a gifted and talented person on their team it may be worth contacting the LEA for a contact.

Have you talked to the LEA about the move?

 

My son had a MM in year Yr 9. He is G&T,A/S but does not show it on paper in all subjects especially not in English. He had his ability pinpointed by Ed Psych but schools would not address it because he didn't show it in tests. He was not included in any G&T activities .Anyway the behaviour/ social skills worsened as he wasn't stretched. The new school worked for the first two terms but GCSE courses and lack of support due to staff changes and communicatioin/understanding difficulties by the school about his needs although suggested by professionals to get funding for him, never came to pass. He had more exclusions which had an impact on his learning.

 

If you can get your son involved in outside school activities its worth it to stretch him and not rely totally on school to help achieve where he excels.

You need to pinpoint the subjects your son is talented in as they are not always talented in all areas.If it is maths and sciences I would seriously look into the subjects that are being failed at the new school as this may also have an impact on achievement.

 

It is very hard going through these changes with our children and at times you feel that everything is falling around you. Its very hard to keep chin up but in the end we try to do the very best for our children.

 

After a long fixed exclusion at Easter we are now waitng for GCSE results!

 

Mand

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Have you tried the National association for gifted children's web site . They have an advice line too. www.nagcbritain.org.uk

 

I have looked at thier website but need to look into it further, to see what is available i am worried because school seem to want to put all the behaviour down to asd and he doesnt even have a diagnosis.

 

Also the LEA should have a gifted and talented person on their team it may be worth contacting the LEA for a contact.

Have you talked to the LEA about the move?

 

No i havent spoken to the LEA gifted and talented person didnt even know there was one, they were trying to get my son statemented and i thin they have exaggerated this as otherwise he probably wouldnt get one, i think they want to use the extra support to work with my son at ths level as he is so far ahead, shouldnt they be provididng this support anyway as a school.

 

My son had a MM in year Yr 9. He is G&T,A/S but does not show it on paper in all subjects especially not in English. He had his ability pinpointed by Ed Psych but schools would not address it because he didn't show it in tests. He was not included in any G&T activities .Anyway the behaviour/ social skills worsened as he wasn't stretched. The new school worked for the first two terms but GCSE courses and lack of support due to staff changes and communicatioin/understanding difficulties by the school about his needs although suggested by professionals to get funding for him, never came to pass. He had more exclusions which had an impact on his learning.

 

Sorry what do you mean by MM, yes the school are saying thatmy son does not show it on paper either which i must admit he doesnt like writing, maths no problem he shows what he is capable of, and he does do well in tests he recently sat his end of year test for year 3 and did so well they gave him a year 6 sats paper to do, my son told me that they said if he was in year 6 now he would be in the top 5!

 

 

It is very hard going through these changes with our children and at times you feel that everything is falling around you. Its very hard to keep chin up but in the end we try to do the very best for our children.

 

This is so true and i fear we have made some big mistakes as parents as regards school but kind of feel we have dug ourself a hole now and there is no going back, its so difficult when the school probably have his best interests at heart but are not honest with us i find it so hard to trust them. and yes i do feel like everything is falling down around me, i am not sure if we left him at his old schol now if they would let him have the support he was getting as i kind of said i wasnt happy with it, one of those heat of the moment things.

 

After a long fixed exclusion at Easter we are now waitng for GCSE results!

can i ask for how long the exclusion was and what for, if you dont want to say thats fine i understand(my son had a 16 day exclusion before easter he was only 7)

Mand i do hope you get the results you want all the best to you!

Edited by mrs fussy

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By MM I meant managed move.

 

From the hand writing point of view there has been research done to say that a lot of gifted and talented children have poor handwriting.

Here are a few names you may find useful on a search engine.

Ludwig Lowenstein

Diane Montgomery

words such as underachiever, twice exceptional,

Warwick university G&T

Brookes University, gifted and talented

Gifted and talented in and out of the classroom

even some county councils have guidelines for support of the gifted and talented in PDF style, these do include underachievement such as not showing it on paper.

My son got for 14 yr old SATs after being out of school for 3 months waiting for the managed move as he had to wait for a place at the new school and was at home during this time with work as old school would not have him in school on health and safety grounds, got 7maths 7 science and 4 english and the school still did not test him any further or include him in G&T even though they knew he was an able child! You will probably understand his frustration seeing how your son is.

 

It has been said that Aspergers syndrome and giftedness should have both the gifted side and social/communication side addressed at the same time other wise you will not result in helping the child if you address the social side only you raise the self esteem only to have it demolished by the fact that they are perfectionists and if the work doesn't come easily the first time it deflates their self esteem so adding to the frustration and the behaviouraL difficulties.

If you address the learning side to adapt to their way of learning, very often visual spatial, and address the handwriting difficulties with mind mapping or computerskills to achieve written work then you also raise self esteem and a happy brain is a brain that can learn and the behaviour is helped by raising their self esteem.

 

 

There is also research going on about gifted and talented children demonstrating some traits of Aspergers but these can be so similar to just very gifted children and a wrong diagnosis can be made.

 

You need to find a gifted and talented check list to compare with a gifted and talented with twice exceptional or dual exceptional child some of the american sites are informative.

 

I hope this information helps I did a lot of research a few years back and brought a few books to read on the subject too.I wish you all the best in your son's future schooling and we'll see what the results bring in a few weeks time.

Mand

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By MM I meant managed move.

 

From the hand writing point of view there has been research done to say that a lot of gifted and talented children have poor handwriting.

Here are a few names you may find useful on a search engine.

Ludwig Lowenstein

Diane Montgomery

words such as underachiever, twice exceptional,

Warwick university G&T

Brookes University, gifted and talented

Gifted and talented in and out of the classroom

even some county councils have guidelines for support of the gifted and talented in PDF style, these do include underachievement such as not showing it on paper.

My son got for 14 yr old SATs after being out of school for 3 months waiting for the managed move as he had to wait for a place at the new school and was at home during this time with work as old school would not have him in school on health and safety grounds, got 7maths 7 science and 4 english and the school still did not test him any further or include him in G&T even though they knew he was an able child! You will probably understand his frustration seeing how your son is.

 

It has been said that Aspergers syndrome and giftedness should have both the gifted side and social/communication side addressed at the same time other wise you will not result in helping the child if you address the social side only you raise the self esteem only to have it demolished by the fact that they are perfectionists and if the work doesn't come easily the first time it deflates their self esteem so adding to the frustration and the behaviouraL difficulties.

If you address the learning side to adapt to their way of learning, very often visual spatial, and address the handwriting difficulties with mind mapping or computerskills to achieve written work then you also raise self esteem and a happy brain is a brain that can learn and the behaviour is helped by raising their self esteem.

There is also research going on about gifted and talented children demonstrating some traits of Aspergers but these can be so similar to just very gifted children and a wrong diagnosis can be made.

 

You need to find a gifted and talented check list to compare with a gifted and talented with twice exceptional or dual exceptional child some of the american sites are informative.

 

I hope this information helps I did a lot of research a few years back and brought a few books to read on the subject too.I wish you all the best in your son's future schooling and we'll see what the results bring in a few weeks time.

Mand

Yes thanks for the information, i think you are right about tackling both at once the only trouble is his old school wont accept the social difficulties, and we are worried the new school may not cope with is academic abilities, nitemare!!! although i must say he has recently made some freinds at school who seem to accept him, its just can we trust them (the old school that is) they just tel so many lies and contradict themselves all the time to get what they want. oh i feel like just flipping a coin. I am also worried that we have told his new school that we think he needs help socially and are worried that they may think this is the only help he needs although they do know about his exclusion so i suppose that is self explanatory(as regards behaviour) and the head would not give us an answer straight away and before he spoke to the other head so he did think long and hard about it, so hopefully would conider everything. Its just so difficult isnt it to know what to do for the best, and then all the bad treatment school have given to us as parents i mean if they can treat us like that what are they doing to my son? sorry ranting again Mrs F x

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I really do understand where you are coming from.We have been there too. Have you considered puttng your own request for a statutory assessment as a parent.

We never did and all the way through his education the schools have said my son would never get a statement but looking back on his whole school life and the school file he should have been assessed by the LEA in Junior school and not so much for academic needs but social and emotional needs. The assessment would have shown up the ability on the educational psychologist test and so the whole picture would have been seen hopefully.

Did you ask for a copy of his school file when he was excluded? Its your right to have a copy.

Have you spoken to any of the governors? There should be one responsible for learning and possibly even special needs. Even if you don't want to stay with this school you could ask either school about the way they fund their children across the SEN code of practise.

Since the exclusion has your son been put on the special needs register.My son was on the SEN register from infants although he did not get a diagnosis til he was 12 and then a speech and language assessment at nearly 14 showed that his ability had compensated for his difficulties Have you asked to speak to the new school SENCO at all? You could find out what assessments they do in the school, like handwriting spelling comprehension and writing speed and brain processing.CAT test and Neale Analysis test.

Sorry if I have gone on a bit.

Friendships are very important for our children to have especially if they accept them for who they are.

If your son does move schools ask the new SENCO to set up a circle of friends and a buddy system with children that are consistent in character and also have the same ability and interests, this may need funding but it may be part of the managed move.(Look up managed move on your LEA website you may find something to help.)

 

Some things you can not do over the summer holidays as the people you need to speak to are also not around and sometimes having a good time away from education and doing things you all like doing together as a family are far more important and help far more. You will make the best judgement you can make in the end.

Some GREAT people in history did not show their talents til they were passed school.

Go and have an interesting day out somewhere despite the weather.

Mand x

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I really do understand where you are coming from.We have been there too. Have you considered puttng your own request for a statutory assessment as a parent.

We never did and all the way through his education the schools have said my son would never get a statement but looking back on his whole school life and the school file he should have been assessed by the LEA in Junior school and not so much for academic needs but social and emotional needs. The assessment would have shown up the ability on the educational psychologist test and so the whole picture would have been seen hopefully.

Did you ask for a copy of his school file when he was excluded? Its your right to have a copy.

Have you spoken to any of the governors? There should be one responsible for learning and possibly even special needs. Even if you don't want to stay with this school you could ask either school about the way they fund their children across the SEN code of practise.

Since the exclusion has your son been put on the special needs register.My son was on the SEN register from infants although he did not get a diagnosis til he was 12 and then a speech and language assessment at nearly 14 showed that his ability had compensated for his difficulties Have you asked to speak to the new school SENCO at all? You could find out what assessments they do in the school, like handwriting spelling comprehension and writing speed and brain processing.CAT test and Neale Analysis test.

Sorry if I have gone on a bit.

Friendships are very important for our children to have especially if they accept them for who they are.

If your son does move schools ask the new SENCO to set up a circle of friends and a buddy system with children that are consistent in character and also have the same ability and interests, this may need funding but it may be part of the managed move.(Look up managed move on your LEA website you may find something to help.)

 

Some things you can not do over the summer holidays as the people you need to speak to are also not around and sometimes having a good time away from education and doing things you all like doing together as a family are far more important and help far more. You will make the best judgement you can make in the end.

Some GREAT people in history did not show their talents til they were passed school.

Go and have an interesting day out somewhere despite the weather.

Mand x

Hi i must say until Jan this year i never even heard of special needs. How terrible is that, my son has i suppose always had problems getting on with other children his age but not major problems we have always put this down to him being a strong character and being an only child as he has always go on with adults really well and older children. There have been minor probs at school with him hitting other children but this has always been in response to something more of an over reaction than anything, his yr 2 teacher last year said this also, i asked if he was the only child like this and she said no but he probably does have more of a temper than the others, but when there was a problem and she spoke to me about it she said it nearly always solved it. This year he went into yr 3 after a month back at school i went in to see his new teacher to just generally find out how he had settled and she said he seemed fine(my concerns were that he may be being bulied by a child who had bullied him the previuos yr) she did at this point ask me if i ha heard of aspergers syndrome i said i had and had realised he did have SOME traits but that i wouldnt be taking it any further as felt if there wasnt any help for him what was the pooint.. At his parents evening i told her that he had said that he was getting a little bored sometimes in maths lessons, and i asked if his behaviour was ok she said she didnt have time to disscuss it now but if i wanted to i could pop in i could. She didnt ask to speak to me and i presumed that everything was ok as felt she would speak to me if she needed to. I had no other contact until the week before xmas they called me in and had drawn up an IEP for him this included somr thing about us as parents which i didnt agreee with and i tod her but it was never changed (i did nt sign these)(his teacher was senco at her last school, but not this one)i started to take him home some lunch times to help, there was often days from this time that they said there had been incidents with my son i informed them that 3 children were not helping by making his life difficult in and out of the classroom this was teasing and physical they would not accept this was happening, at this point i also realised that they were not doing anything on his IEP but didnt really know what to do , the incidents seemed to be occuring more and more but my sons version was often different(he is very honest and wil usually admit to what hes done wrong) they asked to refer him to the psych i agreed the things they wrote on the form i felt i had to agree with as i cpuldnt really say what he was klike in school because i am not there.she observed him for one afternoon and said they should do anger management and seek some help for concentration(during all this time there were constant supply teachers, because his teacher was acting as deputy head)i urgently asked for a meeting with senco the next day they gave me a new SA+ IEP. The day after i was given it they excluded him for 16 days to the end of term(i think this was so i could not meet with the senco as i would have said wht they needed to be doing)he returned on a part time basis for the whole of the summer term with 15 hrs support(as to waht happened and why he was excluded i have heard several different stories)the head in paper work said this was a sudden and rapid decline, but at meetings keeps teling me there have always been problems which one is it i think they always intended for him to try and get statement from year 3 and have let things just happen,i did at his feb parents evening ask about behaviour they said they didnt want to disscuss it it should be a positive PE i ahve told them they did nothing for him before his exclusion and what they were now doing was making him unhappy he did not get along with the TA and also we felt that some of the 15hrs should be use don the playground but they just would not try this, i tryed to tell them at last meeting they kept trying to finish it before i had finished and in the end the teacher and TA just got up in a huff made some comment and walked out !!! oh i did have the table shoved into my chest twice too during this meeting, you know i dont have a problem with him being statemented but his statement will need to cover everything he needs help with and i wanted ti=o make sure that all the info thay had did this because its too late after i told her my son couldnt return to school until what was upsetting him ha been resolved they took this to mean remove the support , that snt what i meant i wanted it moved around a little and i also wanted better communication between school and us as i felt this was a major problem. I spoke to the head the folowing monday and said i didnt feel my son could return as they would not listen to my concerns she agreed !!! we i feel have been set up, they would never disscuss his behaviour at official meetings and wouldnt when we asked but would record other parents concerns about my sons behaviour at parents evening, they wanted to make this look like it was a rapid thing and i dont think that it was its just they had done nothing about it, i feel this was all to provide evidence for assessment(at the back of all this i attended workshops on aspergers) and had my son refered to CAMHS all on he schools advice Sorry my last 6 months of life story fingers are aching now. thanks for listening Mrs Fx

 

Sorry what is CAT test and Neale analysis test, i didnt know they had to do handwriting and spelling and comprehension and writing speed brain processing what would these be used for and what would they prove(you know he hasnt brought spellings home to learn snice xmas i wonder why) the ed psych only observed my son no tests they really have been naughty i think not teling me any of all this i didnt know these tests existed, we did have his record but all they sent was his IEP and attendence and end of yr 2 sats results.

Edited by mrs fussy

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Hi again sorry for the delay in replying. Have been having a day of hair cuts and baking. Going to see my 3 year old niece tomorrow as it's her birthdayand was making some gingerbread teddies and a small birthday cake to take with us.

To start at the end of your last reply, a CAT test is a cognitive ability test which checks for reasoning abilities,numbers,non-verbal and verbal. It provides the school with indications on outcomes at all key stages.

The Neale test Nara II is an analysis of reading,it enables reading materials to be matched with the child's ability,check specific skills have been learned.

more info can be seen on www.nfer-nelson.co.uk

Visual spatial people can score higher on the non-verbal reasoning than the verbal and so can some other cultures who learn in pictures eg Chinese their alphabet is made up of pictures.

I think I've put this accurrately. Please correct me anyone if I'm not.

 

The exclusion and the part-time education I'd check up with an LEA officer or exclusion officer with how this time is worked with attendance.

look at guidlines on www.teachernet.gov.uk/wholeschool/behaviour/exclusion/guidance.

 

The school record I would have thought would contain more than you have said especially if the collecting evidence for a statement.You could ask to go into school and look at the file and write a letter to the chair of governors requesting this as you feel there should be more in his file.even the report from the ed psych.

 

I will be away tomorrow but around Sunday if I can be of anymore help I will log on Sunday.

Take care til then.Thinking of you all.

Mand

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Hi again sorry for the delay in replying. Have been having a day of hair cuts and baking. Going to see my 3 year old niece tomorrow as it's her birthdayand was making some gingerbread teddies and a small birthday cake to take with us.

 

Hope you have a good day :dance:

 

To start at the end of your last reply, a CAT test is a cognitive ability test which checks for reasoning abilities,numbers,non-verbal and verbal. It provides the school with indications on outcomes at all key stages.

The Neale test Nara II is an analysis of reading,it enables reading materials to be matched with the child's ability,check specific skills have been learned.

more info can be seen on www.nfer-nelson.co.uk

 

I am not aware that they have done any of these tests at all if they have they certainly havent told me.

 

Visual spatial people can score higher on the non-verbal reasoning than the verbal and so can some other cultures who learn in pictures eg Chinese their alphabet is made up of pictures.

I think I've put this accurrately. Please correct me anyone if I'm not.

 

The exclusion and the part-time education I'd check up with an LEA officer or exclusion officer with how this time is worked with attendance.

look at guidlines on www.teachernet.gov.uk/wholeschool/behaviour/exclusion/guidance.

 

The school record I would have thought would contain more than you have said especially if the collecting evidence for a statement.You could ask to go into school and look at the file and write a letter to the chair of governors requesting this as you feel there should be more in his file.even the report from the ed psych.

 

As far as the ed psych they said she just made suggesstions no written report,( mind you they probably wouldnt have received it by then anyway as she saw him about 2 weeks before the exclusion), as she has only observed him for one afternoon.(an initial observation they called it)

If they requseted statutory assessment what information would the ed psych have to provide, would she then need to do some sort of tests before she could do a report for them or would she just give the information that she has now which really isnt that much, or would this depend upon what the LEA ask for from her.

 

 

Thanks for all the advice i really appreciate it i just havent got a clue what to expect or know what the proffesssionals should be doing they could be getting away with loads, well they probably already have. Mrs F x

Edited by mrs fussy

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Hi,

Yes we had a good day out.Weather lasted til we were leaving and then the spray and rain gave us an extra hours travel on our journey but home safe now.

 

To answer your question about the ed psych there is a Dfes publication you can have as a parent called Special educational needs code of practice.I got my copy through a partnership with parents meeting which you could try.

For a copy or info try www.dfes.gov.uk/publications/ Click on publications for schools which will take you to teachernet online.Use the search for sen code of practice. There may be other articles that may interest you too.

There is a web site stated on the back of the book which also may be helpful it's http://inclusion.ngfl.gov.uk.

 

Also if your LEA have a good web site you can search their site under education, for statutory assessment , their guidelines also exclusions and managed moves.

 

If you have the resources to get an Educational psychologist assessment through a known private ed psych there is information about professionals with an interest in ASD on the NAS web site it may be an option ( we got ours through a known dyslexia centre by an Ed Psych who specialises in ASD)to help see your son's ability and concentration and brain processing and reasoning and the way he takes information on board.

 

It is an expensive business so pobably wait to see what the school will do about assessing for a statement first.

 

If they do another observation on your son ask for it to be done in the areas he has difficulty in such as the playground PE un structured time.

If this is the time when social difficulties/ bulling occurs then it should be this time that he is observed in not a classroom.

My son we asked to have observed in the playground but the school chose to do it in a structured lesson. He showed no problem. Conclusion No problem!

 

Hope you are having an ok weekend.

 

Best Wishes

Mand

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