A petition to sign

[Canopus]

Please sign this petition

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/aspublicjobs

[pearl]

Done.

I got an instantaneous email from Downing St

He never sleeps, that Gordon Brown

[pearl]

Little bump for this.

[Viper]

All done.

[TheNeil]

Just one question: How?

 

How can the government specifically create jobs for Aspies? What type of jobs are Aspies especially suited/restricted to? What are the government to use as the 'standard' when it comes to being an Aspie and the jobs that we can/can't do (e.g. Emily can do things that I can't and vice versa)? Wouldn't this be discrimination against non-Aspies if they created a role specifically for one element of society that was closed to the rest of society? If an Aspie applied for one of these jobs and got it would it be because they were genuinely good enough or simply because they met the criteria of being AS (I for one certainly wouldn't want to be given a job simply because of what society judges me to be but more for the fact that I was the best person for the job, irrespective of anything else)? Will this scheme be extended across all races, creeds, colours, sexes, genders, ages, heights, hair colours, abilities? Will we end up with a system whereby your 'classification' allows you just a single/small number of job opportunities? What if an Aspie doesn't want to work in, for example, IT (or other technical profession)? Will we be interned in little communes grouped by classification/job? Will we be allowed to mix with people from other classifications or will be required to stick to our own 'group'? At what point will we be sorted and sent to our community? Are we allowed to have relationships with 'outsiders'?

 

Or, put another way, nope.

[Mumble]

I kind of agree with TheNeil, though perhaps wouldn't quite put it the same way :shame:

 

I don't want a job in the technical industries (public or private). I want a career in what I enjoy, what I am passionate about and what I know I am good at. But what I really want alongside that is understanding. I don't want to be pigeon-holed and I fear that 'AS acceptable' jobs may just do that. I'm fed up at the moment of being pigeon-holed by people who are supposed to be supporting me and having constantly to fight to say - ok, the textbook might say that but that doesn't mean that's me - please accept me for who I am and not for who you think I should be.

 

I think increased tolerance and acceptance of all people, provided accommodations don't result in different standards, should be the way forwards. I need particular supports to access my course as an equal - the key to these, as I see it, is that if they were applied to a NT they would not make their life easier. That way I do not have an unfair advantage and can be judged as an equal.

 

Don't know if that ramble makes any sense - nerve hitting and all that. . .

[TheNeil]

I kind of agree with TheNeil, though perhaps wouldn't quite put it the same way :shame:

I consider it a gift

[Mumble]

I consider it a gift

Well we all have to have a talent somewhere - it's a rule on page 78 of the 'How to be an Aspie' manual.

[Viper]

I think it would be more a case of giving employers more information about aspies, so creating more openings for them. Not wanting to offend anyone but if a streo typical aspie went for an interview, your average employer would not see past their "quirks" (for want of a better word) and look at the whole person as a valuable member of their workforce. We all know that aspies are very dilligent and hard working but a potential employer wouldn't see that.

 

Just my oppinion, and not meant to cause any offence whatsoever.

[pearl]

Well I signed it purely as an awareness raising exercise - I'm not expecting miracles or have any idea of how the finer points of this would work.

 

I for one would be happy if for instance, jobs werent advertised in template form: ie: the default mode seems to be, MUST be a team player etc cos that is what is fashionable at the mo. I'm sure these generalisations put people off applying when in fact many jobs dont need this description.

[Mumble]

if a streo typical aspie went for an interview

Not wanting to offend anyone, but how many aspies are 'stereotypical aspies'. It may be because I'm a female that I don't see this, but the only place I have ever seen 'stereotypical aspies' is on the TV in fictitious films and programmes.

 

Pearl, I totally agree with you about the template thing - hopefully it is just a phase/phrase.

[Viper]

Mumble I agree totally. I was using the term to illustrate my point. IYKWIM?

[badonkadonk]

I kind of agree with Mumble and Neil.

 

I don't want any job opportunity offered to me just because I'm Aspergers. I want to be good enough to be offered the job because of who I am, not because somebody has to employ a certain number of Aspies. It's the same with the disabled box on application forms. Granted for some who are disabled ticking this box makes all the difference and I wholeheartedly understand the reasons and need for this. The majority of the time though I don't tick that box because I don't want the uncertaintainty that comes with it. Am I just being asked for interview because I meet the minimum criteria? Am I being asked just to make up the numbers and prove they are considering disabled applicants? For me it is more disheartening to tick the box, attend the interview and still not get the job because you do wonder why you were invited to interview in the first place....were they ever really considering me for the job? I would never want someone to employ me reluctantly and without good reason.

 

Yes I agree that there is this trend for all jobs requiring 'good communication skills' but you just have to work around it. For the most part, in a work setting, I don't see why Aspies wouldn't have the communication skills necessary to fulfil the job role. Aren't we by nature formal and polite? How many people have you worked with who are not Aspies but have appalling communication skills? The only way an interviewer can assess your communication skills is through interview and based on references. As far as I'm aware in most professions you really need to be able to communication one to one with people in order for business to work? Even those who work in solitary professions have to talk to people sometimes! Take Neil for example, he's a computer programmer and he spends half of his day firing emails back and forth to people, talking to his boss and other internal and external customers.

 

I think people panic when they read 'good communication skills' and it becomes a frightening concept because no one really knows what it means. I ignore this job requirement and apply for the job anyway if I want to as I don't consider myself to have bad communication skills. Yes sometimes I take things literally, I don't get many jokes and I don't really enjoy small talk. But that doesn't mean that I can't communicate effectively.

 

Not to name names or accuse all councils of being the same but I've faced the most discriminination when applying for jobs working for the council or local education authority. The people who are supposed to be more aware seem to be more frightened of hiring me than private sector employers. I personally think the reason for this is because they are more aware of Aspergers. This sounds mental I know but because they think they know what Aspergers means they assume that I must fit the stereotypical model of Autism/Aspergers and so must not be able to communicate or add 2 and 2 together. I mean look at the information out there about Aspergers, the majority of the time it is referred to as being a communication disorder, by the people who should supposedly know better! Is it any wonder those who are more informed are more weary? The NAS, when explaining Aspergers, constantly refer to what we can't do and never really focus on the many, many positives. The only stories that get into the newspaper are sensational or shocking and usually represent the most extreme attitudes towards Autism/Aspergers. The parent who wants to cure their sick child, the Aspie who hates the world and thinks everyone is out to get them.

 

Then there's good old Crimewatch who says we just love to brick people to death! Is it any wonder that those who have actually heard of Aspergers are frightened of employing me?

 

I went for a job that had nothing to do with the council or education and the topic of Aspergers came up. The one guy did ask 'so how long have you had it then?' and I explained, briefly, that it wasn't something I had [in my opinion] and gave him the positives of Aspergers. The other guy asked if it affected my ability to do the job. No, I said, I might just need a little bit more time than usual to get to grips with using the phone. A day or two more at the most, but on the upside I will learn everything else that little bit quicker and will work very, very hard. Ok he said, personally I couldn't give a stuff if you are Aspergers or not. I prefer quirky, normal is boring.

 

So when I had given him the right information about Aspergers and how it affected me, because he didn't have any preconceptions about Aspergers he was totally fine with it. And this I think is the real issue.

 

It's not about creating more specific AS jobs in the public sector. Viper you're right it's about raising awareness in employers, but, only if it is done in the right way. What I worry about in campaigning for more awareness is that they'll ask the very people who are running around telling everyone what we can't do, telling people that we can't communicate that will do the awareness raising. If this was to be the case then I fear it would do far, far more damage than employers having a total lack of awareness.

 

Instead, what I prefer to do and what I'm going to continue doing is raising awareness in the people that I meet as to what Aspergers is and how Aspergers shapes who I am. I would reject any offer of outside support being brought in because I am unsure as to what they could do for me that I can't already do myself. I can tailor how I approach situations to take into account NTs approaches to things and mine. I can try to manage my meltdowns and if a meltdown does occur take sensible steps to minimise the meltdown and make sure that I am completely honest with my employer about what happened so that they have a better chance to understand. I won't get this right all of the time and even with my best intentions some people just won't understand but it's the way I'm choosing to go about things.

 

I know I'm rambling now but I do think it is important for other Aspies and NTs to understand that not all of us are the same. Canopus I know that you focus on the technical job roles and think that Aspies are good in these areas and in some cases that's probably true, but not mine. I am useless at science and technology and couldn't programme a computer if my life depended on it. What about if more specialised jobs were created for those who are AS, what about if the stereotypes made about Aspies were believed when doing this and so only jobs came up where you were working in a technical capacity? I would never ever find a job!

 

My take on my situation is this, first and foremost I am Emily. Yes I am Aspergers and this shapes my personality, my approaches to life, my thoughts and feelings. But I do not belong to a community of Aspies. Yeah I refer to those who are Aspergers as being Aspies and sometimes I talk about NTs being NTs but mainly this is for ease of purpose. I don't see the world as me vs them, I don't see my parents and family and friends as Aliens. I see them as different, sure, but they are still human, still think, feel, laugh and cry. Despite all the little things that make us different we also share many obvious things in common. I wouldn't sign a petition for jobs for more females, more Aspies, more jobs for people of certain cultures, for more gay people and maybe not even for more disabled people [given the proceedures they have in place for this already] because I refuse to be classified firstly by anything other than my name and who I am. Firstly I am Emily and the skills I have for the job are what I want to be judged on. Take into account I'm female and Aspergers by all means, but don't judge me based on these things. By asking for specific Asperger roles you are asking to be judged first on being Aspergers and this isn't how I want to be judged. I'm not some faceless Aspie, I'm not a stereotype or a list of traits. I'm me.

 

Anyway that's my take on the situation, I'm not saying you are wrong to do the petition and I'm not saying it's a ###### idea and all that malarky, I just have a different take on things.

 

Emily

xxx

[pearl]

Hi Emily <'>

Yup I agree aspies can be just as good communicators as anyone else - more, as you say, peoples perception of what AS means may lead them to assume otherwise.

 

From our own experience so far I wouldnt agree about councils - ours has been exemplary from day one of enquiring about adjustments at interview for JP, right through to supporting him at work now. I am VERY impressed (but aware its early days) I doubt he'd have done as well in the private sector with less regulation.

[badonkadonk]

Hi Pearl,

 

I know you've had a great experience with your council and I'm really pleased for JP that things are working out

 

I did say that I wasn't accusing all councils of being the same, I really don't want people to think I'm a council basher either [it seems I really can't get through a post without offending somebody ] your experience has been good, mine bad, swings and roundabouts.

 

I wasn't saying all councils are bad, rather I was saying that I've found, in my experience, that people who should have more awareness [like schools and LEAs...who all come under the local council] often have more negative assumptions about Aspergers because they are misinformed or have a particular stereotype in mind, rather than just unaware.

 

Hope that has cleared things up a bit

 

Emily

xxx

[TheNeil]

Having seen Emily go through the interview process on several times with regards to local government (i.e. schools, LEAs etc.) we must just live somewhere where the council is useless.

 

The problem, from what we've experienced (this isn't a generalisation - I just think that <name of local council removed to avoid incurring the wrath of the council tax department and being bankrupted for all eternity> council are useless) isn't necessarily one of ignorance about AS (from Emily's experience LEAs and schools around here do seem to have heard of it, know a little etc.) but more 'misinformation' whereby they seem to have a fixed idea as to what 'Asperger Syndrome' means but miss the point that it's a spectrum term and therefore each person is an individual with different strengths and weaknesses (which also means that there's no such this as an 'Asperger job').

 

The problem isn't a lack of jobs for Aspies but, as always, a lack of information and understanding from employers in both the public and private sector. In the case of public sector roles (especially with regards to LEAs, schools etc.) it seems that although there is more awareness, this doesn't always translate into greater understanding and, if anything, can actually be more problematic as these potential employers already have a fixed image of what an Aspie can/can't do. In contrast the private sector, ignorant as it often is, can be seen to approach the situation from a more neutral and less '(mis)informed' perspective - could they actually be more receptive rather than sticking to some sort of stereotypical view of situations and/or people?

 

Regardless of all that though, having the government treat us like idiots who need jobs creating for them is not only insulting but, ultimately doesn't help matters any with regards to society understanding and accepting anyone who doesn't 'fit the norm' (this goes beyond ASDs in my humble opinion).

[pearl]

I'm not offended Emily, just think its perhaps as Neil says, that your council is c**p. For which, much sympathy.

 

Its just, Canopus thinks that the private sector doesnt want to employ aspies, you think councils dont want to & it all gets a bit depressing. EDIT: sorry just noticed your subsequent post which clarifies you dont think that, I'll leave rest of post as stands.

 

I think its more likely that some private sector firms dont want to - some dont mind either way & some will be positive.

 

The same with the public sector. I think we are particularly lucky in this area - JP works for the city council which you already know I rate highly (though I'll probably be back on here ranting about them if it all goes pear shaped)

 

I have also met a 30 year old aspie who works for our county council - he gave a talk at our last college parent's evening & was brilliant. He had a chequered work history till a friend encouraged him to apply to the county council. He got a job there on his 3rd attempt & has never looked back. He's 2 years in now & doing well.

Edited September 19, 2007 by pearl

[Canopus]

Its just, Canopus thinks that the private sector doesnt want to employ aspies

 

Not strictly true. There are definitely some private sector organisations that value people with AS traits. It would be useful to track these organisations down and compile a list of them. This is why Asperger Technical mentions forming partnerships of the front page of the website.

 

Something you have to be aware of is that there have been many changes in the private sector high technology industry since 2000 that do not work in favour of people with AS.

 

1. Many jobs that people with AS were highly suited to no longer exist due to industrial decline, cutbacks, and outsourcing to low wage countries. This is expected to increase further with time.

 

2. A high proportion of the jobs that are being created in the high technology industry are based around NT people skills.

 

3. Changes in attitudes and culture in the high technology industry disfavour people with AS and favour outgoing NT people.

 

Asperger Technical has a bias towards the public sector. This isn't mentioned on the website but read the last sentence in our commentary in Personnel today. There are several reasons for behind this bias resulting from a long and complicated meeting.

 

1. The public sector already employs thousands of people in technical positions ranging from forensic scientists to statisticians to computer programmers.

 

2. There is usually less requirement to possess certain NT people skills than in the private sector.

 

3. The public sector is already used to employing disabled people although there is still a serious lack of understanding of AS.

 

4. More public sector positions for people with AS can be created in theory at the stroke of a pen, whereas creating positions in the private sector will take a lot of effort to convince sceptical managers.

 

How can the government specifically create jobs for Aspies? What type of jobs are Aspies especially suited/restricted to? What are the government to use as the 'standard' when it comes to being an Aspie and the jobs that we can/can't do (e.g. Emily can do things that I can't and vice versa)? Wouldn't this be discrimination against non-Aspies if they created a role specifically for one element of society that was closed to the rest of society?

 

My answer to this would be to first identify what positions are likely to be attractive to people with AS based on their skills and interests, then when these positions come up state that people with AS will be given priority. I'm not in favour of ringfencing certain jobs for people with AS by prohibiting NT people from applying, and neither am I in favour of creating unnecessary jobs just to employ people with AS.

 

The public sector already discriminates against men and white people. I have encountered a few job advertisements specifically stating they only wanted women or ethnic minorities for no good apparent reason other than in the name of diversity or so called equal opportunities.

[badonkadonk]

My answer to this would be to first identify what positions are likely to be attractive to people with AS based on their skills and interests, then when these positions come up state that people with AS will be given priority.

I think this is what Neil was trying to say though Canopus (certainly what I was saying anyway) that how is it possible to identify what positions are likely to be attractive to people who are AS based on their skills and interests? No two human beings are the same, Aspie or not, so in order to cater for all Aspies priority would have to be given for all jobs, just in case one Aspie came along and decided that they actually quite enjoyed customer service (for the record, I didn't hate it, I just hated the people I worked with....the customers, so long as you smiled and were efficient, were fine).

 

Do I think that if we somehow managed to survey every Aspie over the age of 16 in the country, would the findings show a preference to the more solitary jobs, less customer facing (whether it be internal or external customers) and jobs that require a particular skill set? I don't know, I can't say for sure, I would imagine there would be a lean towards these types of job roles but it certainly wouldn't be 100%. I think the current stereotype exists because more men than women get diagnosed as being Aspergers and more men than women tend to seek/find employment in the high technology industries. But that doesn't mean that, that should be used as the yardstick to identify what type of jobs to give those who are AS priority too.

 

I want to work as a teaching assistant, I know Mumble was a teacher (is that right or have I just made that up?) and Bid works in an environment where you support others (sorry Bid, can't remember whether it was a residential home, school or whatnot, I know it's something like that though? I hope!) and KMC works in a management position and they rank pretty flipping highly by all accounts. All of these jobs require day to day continual face to face communication with others. Skills which you might identify as being 'NT people skills'.

 

So how do you identify the jobs that Aspies might be interested in given that we are all different and likely to pursue any number of interests? It would be unfair to give us priority in all jobs, it would be unfair to give us priority in any job in my opinion as what about if we are given a job just because we are Aspies over a non-Aspie who is genuinely more qualified and able to do the job? Is that fair? If the public found out this was happening would it paint those who are Aspergers in a positive light? No, and I wouldn't want to be associated with such a thing just because I too happened to be Aspergers.

 

I understand, kind of, your concerns about jobs being given not purely on whether they are the best candidate for the role or not but it really isn't how it always works and there is always going to be inequality in job selection. What about the candidates who get the job and then you find out they know so and so? It's life, it happens, and if you want to get ahead in life, get a job and earn money you have to accept the fact that sometimes life isn't fair and that sometimes it just plain sucks, for everyone, not just for Aspies. You can either choose not to get involved in it, and if that is what someone chooses that's fair enough, or you can try your best, go for the jobs you know you want to do, sell yourself at the interview and eventually something will come along. Nobody is completely themselves during an interview and to some degrees everyone pretends to be that little bit more chatty, that little bit more vibrant and confident. As Aspies it comes less natural to us to do this but it can be done, for interviews sake, you don't have to keep it up once you get the job...I don't suppose many people do act, day to day in their role at work, like they do in an interview.

 

It's not about pretending to be NT for the sake of getting a job, it's about selling who you are to the employer. It doesn't have to be done verbally, your body language, the way you present your CV, the people you choose as references etc etc can all count towards making that 'good impression' and if you don't wish, even for the sake of the interview, to pretend and do small talk then find ways to keep the interview on track and make sure you remain vigilent in bringing the conversation back around to talking about your positive skills and how you would succeed in the role.

 

I do understand where you are coming from Canopus and I do understand that Aspies could face more discrimination than most during the interview process but the answer, as ever in my opinion, isn't about giving us priority for certain jobs. It isn't about identifying us as a minority, a niche set of employees that need to be taken into account. Like I said before, I don't belong to any group. Labelling us firstly by being Aspergers leads to us becoming largely anonymous individuals and just gives society even more of an excuse to shove us in a group and push us out into the minority. The answer lies in raising awareness about Aspergers, and at the same time making sure that the information given is truly a fair reflection of what Aspergers is all about rather than re-delivering tired stereotypes that do more damage than good.

 

Emily

xxx

[Mumble]

I know Mumble was a teacher (is that right or have I just made that up?)

Correct - and now studying within 'social sciences' - how un-AS is that? :lol:

 

I totally agree with you Emily - just as with Joe Bloggs of the overall population we could quite easily be interested in any sector of employment (as a kid I went through tree surgeon, penguin farmer, park ranger, weather forecaster, ice-cream sales man (yes 'man' ) engineer, pilot, lighthouse keeper - but never teacher ) - we can't tell where we'll end up or what we'll do and at times we have to 'go with the flow' and take what comes along. I could see 'jobs for Aspies' as creating, rather than deconstructing, barriers to gainful employment.

 

It's not about pretending to be NT for the sake of getting a job, it's about selling who you are to the employer. It doesn't have to be done verbally, your body language, the way you present your CV, the people you choose as references etc etc can all count towards making that 'good impression' and if you don't wish, even for the sake of the interview, to pretend and do small talk then find ways to keep the interview on track and make sure you remain vigilent in bringing the conversation back around to talking about your positive skills and how you would succeed in the role.

Absolutely. Of course interviews have terrified me, but actually they are (at least in my experience) very unlike 'normal' social interaction - they are quite stilted, formal and polite, which actually suit me quite well. We all have to do things at times we would rather not - I hate wearing a suit but knew I had to for interviews - I compromise by wearing a trouser suit which is a little more comfortable. One job I didn't get because I was wearing trousers to the interview - but to be honest, I wouldn't have been comfortable working someone with such attitudes so I didn't care. On the interview and the etc.'s, I know for a fact that I had pretty much got my second job before the interview based on my CV and the letter I had written. I know I can write well and so I used that skill to my advantage. The interview served more as a formality to check I wasn't a loony (haha - they never did find out ). We all have skills and weaknesses and we have to make the best of them. Sitting about and moping about what we can't do, and the opportunities not available to us, serves to stop us from seeing what we can do.

 

As Emily says, first and foremost I'm Mumble. Some people like Mumble and some people don't and I think that's fine.

[TheNeil]

As per usual my Emily nails it (): I'm <insert your name here> first...Aspie second

 

Yes being AS makes up part of who I am but it doesn't define me. I want to be 'Neil who happens to be Aspergic' rather than 'the Aspergic bloke'. Will this help me get a job? No idea but remembering that I am an individual rather than a carbon copy of the 'textbook Aspie' is what all of this is about. Aspies, like everyone, are individuals and we each have different dreams, hopes, skills, abilities and perspectives. Making people (sometimes even those people who are supposed to be 'helping' - they're often the worst) realise this is where we have a massive challenge - we're not all clones of the same person (in exactly the same way that everyone in a wheelchair isn't there for the same reason).

 

Similarly coming up with this mythical 'Aspie job' is just impossible. Even if you were able to "identify what positions are likely to be attractive to people with AS" (as Canopus suggests), do we go with majority rule? Just because, for example (and hypothetically - I'm pulling figures out of the air), 90% of Aspies are great at IT, does that mean that every Aspie has to work in IT simply because most are good at it (and are therefore 'attracted' to it)? There are more male Aspies than female Aspies - does this mean that we make every Aspie wear a moustache and call themselves Terry or Trevor? Do you really think that the government (or any large organisation) would really be bothered to consider the individual in favour of a 'fill in this form' approach?

 

At the end of the day we live in a world that, simply put, isn't fair and discrimination does exist. We either accept that and make the most of what we do have (and I'm going to deliberately point out that this doesn't make us 'lesser' people in any way - we each excel in different ways, Aspie or not) or we sit in the corner and let everyone else not only get on with their lives and leave us behind, but also re-inforce the stereotypes and mistruths that people have about us - 'the weird person who never says anything and can't do things for him/herself and will, given time, attack someone with a brick'. You use what you have got and focus on what you can do rather than what you can't. Dwelling on what you can't do and how bad and unfair the world is isn't going to actually solve anything or make the situation any better.

[pearl]

The public sector already discriminates against men and white people. I have encountered a few job advertisements specifically stating they only wanted women or ethnic minorities for no good apparent reason other than in the name of diversity or so called equal opportunities.

 

If you have seen adverts like this they are illegal. The only exception is stuff like being a personal carer where the sex of the employee is important. Some jobs also advertise as "we are under represented in x, y & z areas of the community & would welcome applications" which is slightly different than saying you ONLY want x, y & z, as is "the ability to speak gujerati" which indicates you want ethnic employees - well my dad spoke gujerati & he was white!

[Mumble]

Just because, for example (and hypothetically - I'm pulling figures out of the air), 90% of Aspies are great at IT, does that mean that every Aspie has to work in IT simply because most are good at it (and are therefore 'attracted' to it)?

I'm sitting in my room next to a large box of computer bits and pieces, 27 bits of electrical string, several 'things' with labels attached that I think are written in code. Apparently it all fits together to make a computer and peripherals adapted to my needs. I have no idea how it fits together and quite frankly am scared to try because I don't know (oh, and I don't care either) about where to begin.

 

So can I have one of these Aspie IT jobs please - I know how to be an Aspie

[Canopus]

Just because, for example (and hypothetically - I'm pulling figures out of the air), 90% of Aspies are great at IT, does that mean that every Aspie has to work in IT simply because most are good at it (and are therefore 'attracted' to it)?

 

Asperger Technical covers a very wide selection of scientific and technical disciplines. Many people who have contacted the organisation either do not work in IT or have skills and qualifications that are not IT based. There have been people ranging from biochemists to actuaries to civil engineers.

 

I am planning on holding a meeting with Lee Scott MP in the near future to discuss the issue of providing employment opportunities for people with AS and HFA on a national scale.

[Canopus]

It's not about pretending to be NT for the sake of getting a job, it's about selling who you are to the employer. It doesn't have to be done verbally, your body language, the way you present your CV, the people you choose as references etc etc can all count towards making that 'good impression' and if you don't wish, even for the sake of the interview, to pretend and do small talk then find ways to keep the interview on track and make sure you remain vigilent in bringing the conversation back around to talking about your positive skills and how you would succeed in the role.

 

It is reckoned that a lot of people with AS fail job interviews because of issues relating to body language.

 

Tell me what you think of this article and the comment by Asperger Technical.

 

http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/features/2129...s-body-language

[Mumble]

Canopus,

 

I thought we had put this thread, and those like it, to rest.

 

I understand that this is something you feel strongly about however, as you will see in the earlier responses, it is also something that, for many of the good reasons given, is not only likely to be unattainable but also an intervention not wanted by many in the AS/ASD community. You many have had many responses to Asperger Technical from people who would be interested; I am not disputing this. What I am disputing is that that represents the majority view. I believe that the majority of people (and I accept you have 'traffic' from elsewhere on occasions) who visit or seek advice from Asperger Technical will be doing so because that have an interest in a technical field. I do not, and many others do not either. If you take a moment to review the literature you will note that high systematisation, as often ascribed to Asperger individuals does not soley relate to technical systematisation but covers a range from this, through pure systematisation (such as mathematics) and into social systems (where my interests and research are based).

 

I do not want to be stigmatised and thought of as only suitable for one branch (namely an AS 'job') because of my AS diagnosis. Quite frankly I have enough trouble negotiating a complex and confusing world without unnecessary barriers to what I love and what I want to do being put in my way. I face misunderstanding because of the perpetuation of stereotypes; to put forth 'AS jobs' heightens such thoughts in those with very little understanding of ASDs. Far from speaking to a minister about creating AS jobs, I urge you not to do so; ill-informed 'understanding' is likely to be far more harmful in the same way that put about 'cures' are harmful to parents only trying to do the best for their children. I only want to do the best that I can for myself, drawing on my strengths and supporting my weaknesses; I don't want to be thought of as a helpless indivdual needing sympathy and needing to be given a job because I can't get one myself. At some point, and I realise this will sound harsh and I do hope people on here will understand where I am coming from, we have to say, "OK, so I'm AS - So what? - I'm healthy, I can work and I have a live to lead so that's what I have to do". Now I'm not for a moment dismissing the real difficulties that ASD individuals have or saying I'm a saint who doesn't complain (see my recent uni threads for counter evidence!) and we all have days when we feel down and feel that the worlds against us - all of us - NT or ND - but to constantly complain about how unfair it is it going to get people nowhere - life sometimes isn't fair, but as a wonderful person recently advised me, being an adult is about compromise. I really took that advice on board. I may not like being an adult, but I am and I have to compromise - I can't have everything my way, so I make the most of what I do have and I'm greatful for what I do have rather than spiteful of those around me, NTs in particular who 'don't understand'. I don't understand the ins and outs of every illness, difference or disability so why should I expect others to understand AS to the extent that I have developed a knowledge of it - and why should I expect special treatment because I'm AS. Support the weaknesses, capitalise on the strengths, see everyone as an individual.

 

And so to you weblink: "Having a slick CV and all the right answers to tricky interview questions won't get you anywhere if your body language gives an entirely different message." I disagree - and it you have read my posts earlier in this thread you will note that this isn't everyone's experiences.

 

And as for your list of 'How to behave' - common sense. We can do, but it may be uncomfortable. Everyone uses what they know they are good at to counteract and develop their areas of weakness. This applies equally to NTs and NDs. There is no place for separating out and isolating AS individuals simply by virtue of their label. I am as different from you as two diverse NTs wil be from each other. I am Mumble - Mumble is AS not I am AS - AS is all that Mumble is.

[Canopus]

I understand that this is something you feel strongly about however, as you will see in the earlier responses, it is also something that, for many of the good reasons given, is not only likely to be unattainable but also an intervention not wanted by many in the AS/ASD community. You many have had many responses to Asperger Technical from people who would be interested; I am not disputing this. What I am disputing is that that represents the majority view. I believe that the majority of people (and I accept you have 'traffic' from elsewhere on occasions) who visit or seek advice from Asperger Technical will be doing so because that have an interest in a technical field. I do not, and many others do not either. If you take a moment to review the literature you will note that high systematisation, as often ascribed to Asperger individuals does not soley relate to technical systematisation but covers a range from this, through pure systematisation (such as mathematics) and into social systems (where my interests and research are based).

 

If your occupation is outside the scope of Asperger Technical and you are not interested in its services then why are your worrying?

 

I do not want to be stigmatised and thought of as only suitable for one branch (namely an AS 'job') because of my AS diagnosis. Quite frankly I have enough trouble negotiating a complex and confusing world without unnecessary barriers to what I love and what I want to do being put in my way. I face misunderstanding because of the perpetuation of stereotypes; to put forth 'AS jobs' heightens such thoughts in those with very little understanding of ASDs. Far from speaking to a minister about creating AS jobs, I urge you not to do so; ill-informed 'understanding' is likely to be far more harmful in the same way that put about 'cures' are harmful to parents only trying to do the best for their children. I only want to do the best that I can for myself, drawing on my strengths and supporting my weaknesses; I don't want to be thought of as a helpless indivdual needing sympathy and needing to be given a job because I can't get one myself. At some point, and I realise this will sound harsh and I do hope people on here will understand where I am coming from, we have to say, "OK, so I'm AS - So what? - I'm healthy, I can work and I have a live to lead so that's what I have to do". Now I'm not for a moment dismissing the real difficulties that ASD individuals have or saying I'm a saint who doesn't complain (see my recent uni threads for counter evidence!) and we all have days when we feel down and feel that the worlds against us - all of us - NT or ND - but to constantly complain about how unfair it is it going to get people nowhere - life sometimes isn't fair, but as a wonderful person recently advised me, being an adult is about compromise. I really took that advice on board. I may not like being an adult, but I am and I have to compromise - I can't have everything my way, so I make the most of what I do have and I'm greatful for what I do have rather than spiteful of those around me, NTs in particular who 'don't understand'. I don't understand the ins and outs of every illness, difference or disability so why should I expect others to understand AS to the extent that I have developed a knowledge of it - and why should I expect special treatment because I'm AS. Support the weaknesses, capitalise on the strengths, see everyone as an individual.

 

Out of interest, should there be more services for adults with AS?

[Mumble]

If your occupation is outside the scope of Asperger Technical and you are not interested in its services then why are your worrying?

I am not entirely sure what my occupation has to do with this. The title of your tread refers to 'public sector jobs' and you also note that this is something you want to see as a nationwide initiative:

the issue of providing employment opportunities for people with AS and HFA on a national scale.

All I have cautioned against, and think I have previously written clearly, is the notion of particular jobs being created as suitable for AS individuals. Having a job 'created' that you feel is ideal for you does not mean it will be ideal for me - we share nothing more that a label.

 

Out of interest, should there be more services for adults with AS?

This is entirely irrelevant to the discussion at hand and I feel that you are attempting to set up an arguement as you have recently done so elsewhere. I am truly sorry if you are angry or upset at 'the system' but that doesn't mean all AS individuals feel the same - I'm happy with who I am. I'm getting on (with the occasional hic-up) with the life that I have. If you're really interested in my answer to this question (which I'm sorry to say I don't think you are) they please feel free to look through my other posts.

 

As it is I am taking no further part in this thread for I don't like arguements, particularly ones that have been set up for a reason completely unknown to me. There are other forums more suited to such discussion. I come here for support, not to feel intimidated.

[Canopus]

All I did was offer a petition to sign. I didn't expect it to turn into a verbose commentary or discussion and debate over various finer points.