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Tally

A Suggestion

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I know that most of the members here are parents with autistic children, and I am one of the few adult aspies who hang around here. The "Beyond Adolescence" folder is quite good for us, and it is also good for parents with adult children. I just sometimes feel that the issues get a little confused and some of us adult aspies can get a bit defensive when parents want to have a bit of a rant about the real and constant difficulties they have with their autistic children. It is everyone's right to have a safe place to get it all out, and I hope it is helpful when some of us are able to explain something the child can't and help a parent understand their child better. I just worry that people feel they shouldn't say certain things, and I don't want it to be that way.

 

I wondered if it might be beneficial to have a separate folder for people with AS/autism to talk about their own issues. It might also be nice to have sub-folders for adults and children. I suspect that some people here have children who would like to post about things with other children. I know that some children are already members here. I have seen posts asking if anyone knows a forum suitable for children. It seems silly to look for other places when this already is the safest and well-moderated autism forum I have come across.

 

It's not that we need to be segregated, and there could often be reasons why a person might post in a folder that is not aimed specifically at them, but a certain degree of separation might be helpful.

 

I don't know if other people feel the same, but I thought I would share my thoughts anyway.

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I think this sounds like a good idea, Tally.

 

I posted a while back that I was desperately looking for a forum for adults that was similar in format and ethos to this forum...I hadn't thought about a folder on here! :rolleyes:

 

Bid :)

Edited by bid

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I'm not sure. One of the reasons I like this forum as opposed to AS specific forums is the diversity of people who post. I think by segregating (for want of a better word) you change the overall ethos of the forum. This forum is unique in the wide group is caters for and in it's well-moderated, inclusive and open nature. I think segragation should be kept to segregated forums - there are already places that do this. What we have here works - so why change it?

 

I think it's useful for AS peeps to get advice from NT peeps (for instance recently, I wasn't seeing people's non-reactions as embarassed silences, because this isn't something I see) and for NT parents to get an insight into their AS children's worlds (particularly for instance in sensory issues). We will inevitably clash but only in the same way that NTs clash with NTs and NDs clash with NDs - it's part of what being an individual is about.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by the 'shouldn't say things' but having looked at AS specific forums I'm very glad this forum is moderated well (if that's what you mean). Everywhere you go you will find one or two people with an axe to gride (right metaphor? :unsure:) and people who for whatever reason just don't get on - that's life. But a moderated forum like this picks up on this when it gets bad (sometimes I would say not soon enough and I do feel there are undertones that make me uncomfortable) - for what you want - for people to say what they think, low/no moderation would be the only way and this would lead to arguments and abuse rather than support and advice. I can't actually think of anything that I would want to write on here that I would want to keep AS specific - I value everyone's opinion whether AS or NT and I hope that others value me and my opinions in the same way.

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Guest Lya of the Nox

would that exclude us tho, and would that be a bad thing or cool

for me it not just understanding meggzie via those who can inform but i see u guys as mates and would miss the discussions,

and some of us( me !) consider they are closes that they "ought" to be to the spectrum, if that makes any sense ( i know i hardly eva do that )

i would miss u guys if u had a wee secret place

sorry >:D<<'>

ramble over

x

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I have to agree with Mumble and Lya....this forum is great as it is and as a parent I value the insight of other parents and the adult aspies on here - it's great to have input from both sides of the coin and I think we all offer something valuable to each.

 

Sometimes us parents need an adult aspie to explain what things might be like for our child, sometimes adult aspies need some advice, and sometimes it's just nice for all of us to count the guys on here as 'friends' :)

 

I haven't been on many of the other forums, but this one is wayyy less scary then some I ventured onto, and has been an absolute pleasure thus far to have met all of you - the varied and diverse bunch that you/we all are :)>:D<<'>

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Hi all :)

 

These are 'baddads' thoughts, so heaven forbid they should be taken as any sort of 'mods/admin' comment :lol::lol:

 

Personally, I think the forum is most beneficial if it stays as it is, and reflects all aspects of AS.

That said, there are some very emotive topics that regularly crop up and tend to cause problems for people on both sides of the debate, and certainly it seems that some members feel intimidated and unable to air their views.... and that's not how it should be :(

 

Dunno what the solution is, but I think the biggest part of it has got to be a collective agreement to self moderate when we find ourselves heading into such waters, and an acceptance that sometimes 'agreeing to differ' is the only compromise that can be made...

Not easy - and believe me, i'm not claiming any sort of moral highground myself because I KNOW I can be an opinionated SOB about certain things ;):rolleyes: ...

 

As for an 'as adults forum' - I think maybe an area with that 'primary' function could be useful, but perhaps the 'post 18' forum could meet that need? In any event, I think it would have to be a 'crossover' area rather than a seperate one, otherwise we'd lose more than we gained, IYSWIM (?)

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmm...

 

Right - I'm off to tend our burnt dinner!

 

 

L&P

 

BD :D

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I'd be a little bit sad if we were separated to be honest. I think it would end up feeling a bit 'them' and 'us' or even 'them' AGAINST 'us' and that would be a shame. As long as everyone respects each other and the views of others and remembers that we all have different lives but share some common concerns, then I think this place does very well as it is and it would seem a shame to divide us, so to speak.

 

~ Mel ~

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Why would anybody want to tear the AS community apart?

 

I don't really want to see this 'us and them' type situation forming.

 

 

Totally agree... I'm happiest in a great big puddle of 'We' :lol:

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That's one thing I love about this forum is the diversity. Also one of the greatest form of help is the explainations some of the AS adults share, which has enabled me to support and understand my child better.

 

Thanks Guys.

 

Clare x x x

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I'm happy with things as they are. I have absolutely loved getting to know some of the adult aspies on here & have learnt so much.

 

I do occasionally feel I have to hold back a bit in case I offend anyone - but we should all be thinking of each others feelings when we post so thats no bad thing. I will happily tie myself in knots & bend over backwards (I may be old, but I'm flexible :lol: ) to learn & use the correct terminology, & if I get things wrong am happy to be told so.

 

I love this place.

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OK, these are just my thoughts, and again not intended to offend anyone...

 

On a personal level, I would love to find a place where I could talk to other people who aren't 'being understanding', but actually 'understand' because they have AS too, if that makes sense??

 

One other thing that has struck me about this thread, and again it is only an observation and not intended to offend, but...the majority of people commenting negatively are actually not people with AS, as far as I am aware :unsure: Which is interesting when it was two people with AS who were asking about something in the first place??

 

I would have thought that anyone who didn't want to access an AS forum could just stay on the main forum?

 

Bid :)

Edited by bid

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These are my personal thoughts:

 

Like many here I was attracted to the forum because of the wide range of people on here. I don't think I would have been able to understand my daughter so quickly and so well(and she has told me I do!) if it hadn't been for the adults on the forum who were able to answer my very detailed questions about autism from their personal perspective- questions I couldn't ask her because she wasn't talking for a lot of the time. I've learned so much that I could never have got from books. From parents I got the support of people who knew what I was going through, practical help in help in negotiating the SEN and DLA system and from everyone, loads of laughs.

 

I think inevitable there'll be tensions which arise from time to time, and I don't think we can eliminate those entirely - not really sure if we should, or we'd end up with a really bland forum where people stick to safe "lite" topics for fear of upsetting someone.

 

Can we really make clear divisions between groups of people on the forum? I don't t see people here as ASD or non ASD or as "Adults with AS" or "parents of children with AS". There's a lot of crossover - many parents are themselves also adults on the spectrum and post from both perspectives. Even within the categories, there are such wide differences and experiences. As a parent of an 18 year old girl, I don't have exactly the same concerns as a parent with a 4 year old boy, for example. And people who are here primarily as adults with AS - you're all so different from each other and I wouldn't think to lump you together.

 

I personally don't want to see too many categories, or belong to a forum where there's an area I don't feel welcome to post on.

 

I understand what you're saying Tally, about feeling uncomfortable around certain topics - especially parental rant threads. Perhaps the Beyond Adolescence forum can evolve into the kind of place you want, but I feel it should happen naturally over time and not be forced.

 

Bid - I thought this was an AS forum. :( Why create a division where none exists? There are loads of forums exclusively for people with AS as far as I'm aware. What people seem to be saying on this thread is that this forum is unique because of its mixture and presumably that's what they like or they wouldn't be here.

 

K x

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Sorry Bid - I hope I haven't caused offence. I'm just expressing my random personal thoughts about the forum, not trying to impose my views on anyone. Sorry if that's how it came across. :(

 

K x

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Obviously I can't speak for Tally, but this is what I feel...

 

Kathryn, you say this is meant to be an AS forum. Well, I see a member with AS making a suggestion, and then another member with AS echoing that need.

 

The majority of replies have explained how the forum works just fine for the posters, which is great for them. But other members might have different needs.

 

Maybe you're right, and I, at any rate, should look elsewhere for the support I might feel I need.

 

Bid

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Hi Bid,

 

Not sure what you're saying: there are others with AS who have posted on here and who clearly don't share your and Tally's views. :unsure:

 

I'm not suggesting you should look elsewhere for support - just saying that in not being like other AS forums, this one is unique.

 

K x

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I think Tally made a perfectly reasonable suggestion which personally I don't feel has been really explored, but I don't want to hi-jack her thread so I'm leaving this discussion now :(

 

Bid

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as an adult kanners autist,am have always liked the way every group is together on this forum whether adult ASD,child ASD,NT,somewhere undiagnoseable on the spectrum,adhd,it matches the autism spectrum in a way because everyone is united and connected in some way or other.

there are not a lot of auties and aspies on here [am do remember more autie adults who used to be on,one who had colourful signature for instance],so would think it would not get used much.

Edited by TuX

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as an adult kanners autist,am have always liked the way every group is together on this forum whether adult ASD,child ASD,NT,somewhere undiagnoseable on the spectrum,adhd,it matches the autism spectrum in a way because everyone is united and connected in some way or other.

And I think that's the key issue here - It's about everyone, whatever their label or not-label - being unique and coming together to help and support each other. There is enough segregation in society as it is and social evolution has consistently been about breaking down the artificial barriers that have, throughout history, been placed between them. I am very glad to be alive now when my differences can be diagnosed and I can learn about them rather than say 20 - 30 years ago when my differences may either not have been recognised or I may have been carted off to institutional care rather than having access to education. Who knows, in another 20 - 30 years, as more people become willing and feel less stigmatised in talking about their differences, we may have a freerer society when being 'openly AS' is almost as acceptabl as being 'openly gay' is/is becoming. By segregating ourselves off rather than integrating into the wider 'spectrum community' - to include everyone NT and ND - we could set progress back.

 

And people who are here primarily as adults with AS - you're all so different from each other and I wouldn't think to lump you together.

Thank you Kathryn. :notworthy::notworthy: It's not often that I read such an acknowledgement - I am an individual first and formost and that is how I want to be though of. Thank you.

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Interesting thread this one, it's certainly sent my brain a whirring anyhoo.

 

Before I get on to the segregation issue I'd really like to reinforce what I thought was the best point about Tally's post that seems to have gone unacknowledged. I think the kids section is a great idea and do agree, in this instance, that there should be a separate place for NT/ASD/AS kids to chat if they want. By all means let them have access to the rest of the board (if the mods agree that is in the best interests of the board) but I think it's a really positive provision that the board could do with. I like others have looked around on the net, when trying to help others on here, looking for kid friendly forums and there just isn't really anything out there that isn't super scary. I do remember another board member setting up a site for kiddies so maybe if the option isn't available to do a sub-folder on here then we should big up the links to that site more? I understand that there are child protection issues with setting up a forum for children and I am just as concerned as others about people joining in, in those forums, with ulterior motives. I've been trying to think of a way around it and the only thing I can come up with is that the kids must get there parents to contact a mod or something if they want to join and then the mod set up their account/parent sets them up so that all those in charge here have a definitive list of all the kiddies on board. I don't know, I don't have the answers on this one, just thought it was a good idea seen as though a general theme running through this forum seems to be that people's kids are computer-holics. I suppose one concern is that parents won't feel like they can have those 'I just want to scream' posts anymore, for fear of their kids reading them and getting offended so maybe a kid only section is a better idea? I don't know if it is even possible to restrict access to the rest of the board. Hmmmm as I'm writing I'm addressing both sides of the argument in my head and getting in a bit of a muddle :lol: Regardless of my loony ramblings I do think it's an issue that could be considered.

 

In terms of the segregation thing I'm about a 80:20 split in favour of non-separation. I understand the issues raised by both sides but if anybody has read any of my other posts you will have seen that one thing I'm a big believer in is that I'm Emily first, AS second, as cheesy as that sounds. So I think by having a sub-folder that's just for adults on the spectrum then you run the risk of parents feeling excluded, reinforcing just the differences between us (I know these need to be acknowledged to understand us but there are lots of things that we all have in common and I fear that, over time, we could begin to be seen as the adult aliens by NT parents or those with an interest in ASDs). Similarly I would hate someone who is not on the spectrum to have something to say about what we put in that sub-folder and feel like they are not allowed to say it because they are NT. I also wouldn't want to feel unwelcome to post in other folders in case people thought I should just be posting in the AS/ASD adult folder. So I think, on a whole, I would personally prefer it if things stayed the same.

 

However, as responses from Tally and Bid show, there does seem to be things that they want to say/discuss that they don't feel they can do at present in the current situation. I don't know what these things are and I don't know how to change it to make a difference. And I'm not suggesting for one minute that there concerns about the board are the same as mine.

 

(This is the part where I'm probably going to offend everyone and everything, I'm not setting out to I'm just aware that I usually end up doing so. Apologies in advance)

 

If I had any concerns or issues with the board then they would focus on two things. Before I say what they are though I just want to reiterate that these things don't overly bother me day to day, it's just that I'm aware of them sometimes. It's not something that upsets me greatly and I don't want people to think I'm attacking anyone who isn't Autistic, and parents in particular....it really isn't a big deal, just something I've noticed.

 

So, the things I've noticed are that when parents do have the 'I just want to scream' rant thread, for the most part, I don't see any of us on the spectrum flooding the threads saying 'bad person, boo boo' and what not. I, personally, accept that everyone has bad days and that sometimes kids are just little s*its, AS/ASD or not. I do understand that parents don't necessarily feel how they feel when they write those threads 24/7 and and can totally understand, the majority of the time, exactly where they are coming from (despite not being a parent myself). I do sometimes get upset at some of the comments, especially when I think that it is unfair how the parent views/treats their kid but (and please correct me if I'm wrong) the majority of the time I accept that they are just having a bad day and don't go after them all guns blazing shoving my opinion down their necks. If I think I can help or if it is genuinely something that really upsets me then I do sometimes comment but I think that a lot of the times (to lump us together in this instance) us Aspies steer clear of those threads and leave it to the other parents to offer the hugs and positive support.

 

The other side to this that I've noticed is that sometimes there have been posts from Aspies (where they are critical of NTs, commenting on parents views that have been in the media and what not..generally having issues with NTs and or parents) that they have been absolutely jumped on (mostly by parents, as there aren't a lot of people on here that are just NTs who have an interest) and we get lambasted fo criticising the parent, told that we don't understand because the majority of us aren't parents ourselves and get it thrown back in our faces that we can't possibly know how this or that ASD person feels because not everyone on the spectrum is the same. We get the deeply offended replies from the people who seem to take things really, really personally and they start shouting at us that they are doing the best they can as a parent and they will do what they think is best for their child and they are trying so how can we criticise them and yada yada yada.

 

I think this is the only reason I would ever consider a separate AS/ASD folder so that we can too have a good old rant and rave occasionally without fear of p*ssing off hundreds of parents who are already in defence mode most of the time thanks to dealing with incompetent people who are supposed to be helping their kids (schools, LEAs, doctors, social services etc etc).

 

I know I'm as guilty as anyone for leaping into defence mode at times, and I have made mistakes in the past where people new to the forum have posted and I have written one of my novels in reply giving my spiel about what I think Autism/Aspergers is. I know this and I am sorry for those people who have had to deal with me. I'm not expecting anyone to have noticed or anything but I have been trying to stop doing this lately and give anybody new to the forum a break. And maybe if I do reply just deal with one issue and not all of them. I remember my thoughts about AS just after I was diagnosed and it's a whole different ballgame to what I think now.

 

Anyway what I'm trying to say is that I get the feeling that 'us' adults on the spectrum can also sometimes feel like there are things we can't say for fear of causing a riot. I know parents say this sometimes but I think it's a rare instance as like I said the majority of times we seem to leave those kind of ranty posts well alone. The only times I think I have seen people really uneasy about posting is when the whole cure thing is mentioned and it's completely understandable, it's a really emotive issue and one which people are bound to have strong opinions about and I think an issue where people will always clash.

 

Anyway I've probably gone and offended every parent and NT on the board and have come across as a parent basher and I'm not, in the slightest. I've said time and time again in the past that I would never 100% think ill of anyone on here because at the end of the day people are at least on here, asking questions and being exposed to different viewpoints.

 

For the record I don't know how we solve the problem. How Tally and Bid can say what they want to say (whatever that may be) and how I, personally, can feel ok about posting a rant or rave about things I've come across, particularly relating to parents, without fear of p*ssing off the majority here. I'm not smart enough to figure that out.

 

The only other thing I'd like to say, and again it's probably going to upset people, is another reason why I wouldn't want segregation. Now this is just my own take on the situation and not aimed at anyone in particular so please don't anyone think I'm aiming my comments at just them, but since me and Neil have gotten together we have both said how we have felt a shift in people's reactions to us and when we comment on things. It's like that now when we post on the same thread it can feel, at times from the responses given, that others feel like they are being ganged up on by us just because they know we are dating and are both Aspies. I mean we are going to have similar opinions on things, we wouldn't like each other else, and given that we met on the forum are both going to post here so at times we are going to post on the same topic. But in the short time we have been together we have both mentioned to each other (on different occasions) how sometimes there can be the atmosphere of us vs everyone else on the board because people know we are together. I mean for the most part it's fine and I can understand how people could feel like that. It's not like that in reality because we don't sit side by side egging each other on to respond to each other's posts and what not. The majority of the time we post when Neil is at work anyway so I have no idea what he is going to put and vice versa. Obviously we live together so at times we chat about things but not once have we texted each other and said 'stick up for me' or 'post on this thread and back me up'. Honest.

 

Anyway, it's not really an issue, we wouldn't be posting here still if it was just something we have casually mentioned to one another at times. What worries me is that me and Neil are self-segregated in a way because we are together and both Aspies. My fear is that if you multiply the segregation to include all Aspies then the fleeting moments where me and Neil have felt excluded or as if others feel we are ganging up on them would quadruple and soon whenever more than one Aspie ventured out of the AS/ASD subfolder to comment on things then parents/NTs would feel more and more ganged up on (and vice versa if a NT/Parent came into the AS/ASD subfolder and commented on the threads in there)....that make any sense? I hope it does and I hope it doesn't just sound like I'm complaining about me and Neil, I'm not, it's not the real issue, it is just an example of how I can see things turning really bad if the sub-folder/segregation existed for all adults on the spectrum.

 

Gonna leave it now because I've probably said more than enough and offended the cr*p out of everyone. I'm sorry if I have. And I'm sorry, as per usual, for the length of the response :)

 

Emily

xxx

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Guest Lya of the Nox

not offended me emily not one bit!!!

when i have a rant i do worry that i am gonna offend peeps here cos i seem to be ranting at them too if u get what i mean >:D<<'>

but my rants are not bout megzi per say, but what has affected her and then affected me, she has bad day then cannot cope and i hve to pick up pieces?

i would not change her for the world!!!

she is the light of my life, and i have to say her NT bruv has had me screaming way more recenlty than she does,

and i love the diversity of this place and wonder as a person if i am doing or saying something wrong to make peeps want to have their own bit

the kids thing is a whole other issue, but u cant pm meggzie and i know if someone was posting and it seemed iffy somoen here would pipe up and sort it out, i have in the past in other places,

 

ooh i ramble

tea choccy and soaps it hink now

xxx

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I understand entirely what Emily is saying and, like her, I'm very much undecided on this one. While somewhere that was almost 'NT free' could be beneficial for us non-NTs to get way from the 'rants' (sorry but it does happen - not a criticism though, just stating a fact), it could lead to segregation. Personally I don't see the site splitting into a 'them and us' situation - the creation of the 'Beyond Adolescence' section hasn't driven any wedges into the forum as far as I'm aware and I certainly haven't felt like I'm excluded from other sections simple because that category now exists and I fall into it. If anything sections like Medication etc. make me feel far more 'excluded' as I simply have no knowledge of these types of things, so I avoid them - doesn't make me feel like a 'them and us' situation though.

 

What I find curious though is that there are obviously several Aspies who feel that something like this could be beneficial (or potentially beneficial) but no NTs seem to have grasped this idea. Admittedly some Aspies have raised concerns too but there seems to be a lack of recognition that this is what some Aspies feel they want. Maybe I'm being paranoid and over-sensitive but could this be the NTs patting the Aspies on the head and saying that they know best?

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Guest Lya of the Nox
What I find curious though is that there are obviously several Aspies who feel that something like this could be beneficial (or potentially beneficial) but no NTs seem to have grasped this idea. Admittedly some Aspies have raised concerns too but there seems to be a lack of recognition that this is what some Aspies feel they want. Maybe I'm being paranoid and over-sensitive but could this be the NTs patting the Aspies on the head and saying that they know best?

 

that statement makes me sad,

that has never ever been my intention in any of this

i hope i never ever made u feel that,

this seems to be turning into a them and us, and that instantly makes the diffenrnces more obivious

and i think i will avoid it all now

x

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im sorry but ive taken my post off as i dont like the way this thread has gotten so heated :tearful:

Edited by brooke

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that statement makes me sad,

that has never ever been my intention in any of this

i hope i never ever made u feel that,

this seems to be turning into a them and us, and that instantly makes the diffenrnces more obivious

and i think i will avoid it all now

x

I didn't set out to make you feel bad but, I don't mean this to sound like an excuse or anything, but, being Aspie, means that we can sometimes tell it like it is, be blunt, fail to 'sugar coat' things etc.

 

Speaking totally bluntly and honestly there are people (not on the forum, but in general) who simply don't get what it's like to be AS or Autistic but will happily assume that they know what it's like, make judgements and decisions without actually asking or taking the time to understand. Even the NAS get it wrong (and it's so frustrating given that they're supposed to be there to help).

 

This though is a prime example of why an 'Aspie Only' section could be useful as I hate having to say things like this and be this honest as I really have no idea how it'll be accepted by people who aren't in the same (or simlar) situation. A place to voice those concerns, potentially raise thorny issues and say things to like minded individuals without the fear of inadvertantly upsetting people.

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It's not that we need to be segregated, and there could often be reasons why a person might post in a folder that is not aimed specifically at them, but a certain degree of separation might be helpful.

 

I don't know if other people feel the same, but I thought I would share my thoughts anyway.

 

I know I said I was leaving this discussion ;) , but really felt I should highlight this quote from Tally's original post, as nearly everyone has leapt on this idea of 'segregation' without mentioning Tally's point.

 

Bid

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What I find curious though is that there are obviously several Aspies who feel that something like this could be beneficial (or potentially beneficial) but no NTs seem to have grasped this idea. Admittedly some Aspies have raised concerns too but there seems to be a lack of recognition that this is what some Aspies feel they want. Maybe I'm being paranoid and over-sensitive but could this be the NTs patting the Aspies on the head and saying that they know best?

 

Thanks TN, I have to say this is kind of the sort of feeling I have, too :(

 

I tried to express the fact in one of my posts that just because the majority of (NT) replies here are happy with how the forum works for them, doesn't mean that there might not be other AS members who might like a different but equally valid sort of support.

 

I don't even mind if the consensus is against Tally's suggestion, it was just the fact that I felt it was almost dismissed out of hand without any real consideration of something some members might find very helpful.

 

Bid

Edited by bid

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I'd like to clarify a point too.

 

It's been said on this post that people should be aware and accept that aspies aren't able to say things without causing offence because they are blunt and don't know how to sugar coat things.

 

well, I think this is nonsense.

 

I have an aspie son, and I'm also an aspie, and he and I both know fine well how to be polite. We are certainly stubborn and when fixed on a point are quite incapable of seeing it from another's view point, but this never stops us from being polite. I know at least one other aspie on here who I've met in real life and who is also extremely polite.

 

God forbid the day that either I or my son use our dx as an excuse for being blunt, impolite, or even honest to the point of hurtful.

 

bid, you've made an excellent point also in your last post there. Why is it assumed that segragation is a necessary component of a seperate board or forum? and as bid pointed out certainly tally made it clear that she wasn't veering towards segregation.

 

flora

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What I find curious though is that there are obviously several Aspies who feel that something like this could be beneficial (or potentially beneficial) but no NTs seem to have grasped this idea. Admittedly some Aspies have raised concerns too but there seems to be a lack of recognition that this is what some Aspies feel they want. Maybe I'm being paranoid and over-sensitive but could this be the NTs patting the Aspies on the head and saying that they know best?

 

 

I tried to express the fact in one of my posts that just because the majority of (NT) replies here are happy with how the forum works for them, doesn't mean that there might not be other AS members who might like a different but equally valid sort of support.

 

Sorry Neil and Bid, but I find both of these statements quite offensive actually. Firstly, how do either of you know who is and who is not NT, unless that person has specifically told you about themselves. It seems that you are assuming that certain people are NT when you could be quite wrong.

 

Also, I wonder how it would be viewed if it was suggested that there be a forum exclusively for NTs only.

 

I feel quite upset by this thread, it feels increasingly that one group is attacking and accusing another group and it doesn't feel very good. :tearful:

 

~ Mel ~

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I feel quite upset by this thread, it feels increasingly that one group is attacking and accusing another group and it doesn't feel very good. :tearful:

 

~ Mel ~

 

Yes, so do I :(

 

Bid

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1. Little boxes on the hillside,

Little boxes made of ticky-tacky,

Little boxes, little boxes,

Little boxes, all the same.

There's a green one and a pink one

And a blue one and a yellow one

And they're all made out of ticky-tacky

And they all look just the same.

 

:(

 

I'm with Tally on this one - sorry.

 

I have enough 'them here' - 'us there' to deal with in my own life.

The reason i love this forum is that it isn't like that.

 

:(

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I tried to express the fact in one of my posts that just because the majority of (NT) replies here are happy with how the forum works for them, doesn't mean that there might not be other AS members who might like a different but equally valid sort of support.

 

I don't even mind if the consensus is against Tally's suggestion, it was just the fact that I felt it was almost dismissed out of hand without any real consideration of something some members might find very helpful.Bid

 

Mel,

 

I accept that I shouldn't have written 'NT replies', and apologise for that :(

 

But I still hold to my overall opinion.

 

Bid

Edited by bid

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I've had another little think about this, & feel I'd have no probs with an "adult AS" and "childrens AS" sub folders set up, providing it meant we didnt "lose" the aspies who post elsewhere on here, and wasnt "banned" from posting in there just cos I'm NT (although tbh I'm increasingly unsure WHAT I am :lol: )

 

I'm hardly aware of sub folders anyhoo, cos when I log on I just check new posts & they all appear in a jumble so I just plunge in.

 

There are AS only forums, arent there? I've been looking for a suitable one for JP but as has been said, they can be scary places. And as someone else has said, if he joined here I might feel inhibited if I wanted to share something, as might he.

 

Bottom line, I do love the diversity on here & wouldnt want that compromised.

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Oooh, I did start a riot here, didn't I! I am ever so proud :thumbs:

 

Firstly, I want to say that I do feel comfortable and uninhibited posting here the way things currently are. I wanted to talk about my suggestion because I thought it could make things even better, in my opinion, and if other people felt the same it would be a good change to make. It seems that the majority of members do not agree with me, and that is absolutely fine by me.

 

I also want to make very clear, I was not asking for an autistics-only folder (although I can't understand why you read it that way and did not think I was asking for an NT-only folder as well). I was not suggesting that there should be folders where certain categories of people should not be allowed to view or post, or even feel remotely discouraged from doing so. I just think that it could be helpful to have a section specifically for those of us on the spectrum to discuss the issues we experience that are different from parenting someone on the spectrum (and the other way round in all). I do welcome NT adults' opinions on things that affect me as an autistic adult, and I believe that NT adults can (and do) often make helpful suggestions and observations. I also think that autistic adults can make valuable suggestions and observations to parents struggling to understand their autistic children. And there will always be people who fall into more than one category, like an autistic adult with an autistic child, but probably the things they want to discuss fall into 2 separate categories as well. Separating into folders need not cause any kind of division in people, but it would keep the issues separate, which, in my opinion, would be a good thing.

 

And about a children's folder, there are already some safeguards on children's accounts. Maybe they are the only group who need to be denied access to certain folders to allow their parents freedom to speak freely - but that is not the case at the moment and some people still choose to allow their children to join the forum. The point I was trying to make is, why look for other forums for kids when this one is already very well protected by (1) the moderating team and (2) their parents?

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I'm in a slightly different postion with JP Tally, as he's 18 now, & we both need our privacy. I wish there was another forum he could join which was as good as this, but I'm still searching.

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Yes, that is a completely different situation. I would not be too impressed if my mum joined here. Although she might like to talk with other parents with adult AS children, I would feel much happier if she went somewhere else to do it. It is different when you are both adults, and probably not something resolvable. (Is that even a word?)

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Umm, yes I think its a word, I understood it anyway :lol:

I'd be more bothered if he was agitating to join a forum but he isnt at the mo, its more me thinking it might be good for him to have somewhere to vent.

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I'd like to clarify a point too.

 

It's been said on this post that people should be aware and accept that aspies aren't able to say things without causing offence because they are blunt and don't know how to sugar coat things.

 

well, I think this is nonsense.

 

I have an aspie son, and I'm also an aspie, and he and I both know fine well how to be polite. We are certainly stubborn and when fixed on a point are quite incapable of seeing it from another's view point, but this never stops us from being polite. I know at least one other aspie on here who I've met in real life and who is also extremely polite.

 

God forbid the day that either I or my son use our dx as an excuse for being blunt, impolite, or even honest to the point of hurtful.

 

bid, you've made an excellent point also in your last post there. Why is it assumed that segragation is a necessary component of a seperate board or forum? and as bid pointed out certainly tally made it clear that she wasn't veering towards segregation.

 

flora

Flora, Neil never said that just because he's an Aspie he is impolite and he can't help it. He wasn't being impolite. He was saying that sometimes we say things direct and to the point, which is true, and that sometimes this can offend others who are used to people not being so straightforward.

 

Neil knows full well how to be polite, I know how to be polite, in fact it's a bit ironic because Neil is one of the politest people you could ever meet.

 

I understand that your opinion is that you and your son should never use your diagnosis as an excuse for being honest to the point of being hurtful and I guess in a way if I ever did unintentionally hurt someone's feelings by being honest I would apologise wholeheartedly and not say 'oh well I'm AS so there.' But, I do believe that one of my traits is that I can be, at times, too honest for other people to handle. I don't think there is anything bad with being honest in most situations. If someone had a terrible haircut I probably wouldn't say anything but if she asked me what I thought I might find it difficult to hide in my body language how I felt. People often say to me that they can read me 'like an open book' and despite my best efforts to lie it's something I find really difficult. The same goes for Neil, he apologised to Lya in case he upset her.

 

It's not that I set out to be brutally honest to people, that isn't in my nature, but sometimes I give the honest answer rather than what people want to hear and it can upset people but it is always unintentional. There is a difference I think between meaning to and not meaning to and I believe that sometimes, because of my personality (which is Aspie shaped) I can be honest, to the point of being hurtful, but I don't mean to. I think this is what Neil was trying to say. He wasn't saying I'm Aspie, deal with it. He was saying 'sorry if I upset you, I sometimes stick my foot in it.' If you don't think this is an Aspie trait that's fair enough but I thought it was and I'm certain it has been discussed on this board many a times with people laughing at how blunt and straightforward their ASD kids can be.

 

A good example of how I am honest (and thus sometimes hurtful without meaning to be) is the story that my mum tells everyone. That once when I was younger she was on a diet and I couldn't grasp what this meant. When my mum said 'I'm going on a diet' I literally thought she was going somewhere. I wanted to go there too, I wanted to be on a diet. For peace and to regain some sanity after days of badgering my mum told me that people started to diet if they needed to lose weight. Fair enough, I could grasp that concept. The next day we went to the supermarket and happened to be walking behind a woman who was of the larger build. I said to my mum 'mummy that lady needs to go on a diet doesn't she.' Well of course the woman whipped her head round and gave my mum and me a look that could kill and my poor old mum was mortified. It's not that I meant to hurt her feelings, just that I didn't make the link between her feelings and her needing to lose weight. While I'm a lot more worldly now (thanks to retrieving my foot out of my mouth on many, many more occasions) I still sometimes find that I am honest without realising that it could be hurtful. It's something I stress about a lot and the reason why most of my posts are peppered with me saying 'sorry if I offend anyone' etc.

 

So I think you're right that if you are purposely being mean and hurtful through blunt honesty and passing it off as ok because you are Autistic then that's wrong. But that isn't what Neil was doing. Or I. I don't quite know which one of us you were on about it but either way. It's a bit unfair to levey that criticism at either of us because from other posts you would be able to see that we are both two people who strongly believe in making the best of a different situation, accepting the fact that we are different, accepting the fact that not everyone will be ok with this and getting out there, on with life, making of it what you will and not hiding behind our diagnosis or using it as an excuse for not doing anything.

 

And I know you didn't say that your last comments were directed at me or Neil (or your first comments) but just to clarify my take on the situation I'm against having a separate section for adults on the spectrum. I made this very clear in my post. I personally only used the words segregation because others who had posted previous to me were using those words and I was responding to what they had said. I too don't understand why having a separate section would instantly mean one posts here and the other posts there, but my worry is that it would happen regardless. Similarly I also sympathised with Bid and Tally because, having thought through it all, I didn't know how to solve the problem of them wanting to say things but couldn't feel like they could.

 

Moving away from that others have said (since I last posted) that this discussion had become an us vs them thread and that this was a bad thing. I kind of agree but wasn't it inevitable? I mean the very topic deals with ASD and Non-ASD plus you have people responding to the thread who are NT and those who aren't.

 

Emily

xxx

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Phew!

 

I don't like the tone of this thread at all -and FWIW I'm finding it very, very offensive from BOTH sides of the fence at the moment... i particularly found TN's suggestion that we are 'patronising' our AS members

 

Maybe I'm being paranoid and over-sensitive but could this be the NTs patting the Aspies on the head and saying that they know best?

 

offensive, especially when he seems to qualify that later on with:

 

I didn't set out to make you feel bad but, I don't mean this to sound like an excuse or anything, but, being Aspie, means that we can sometimes tell it like it is, be blunt, fail to 'sugar coat' things etc.

 

I'm fairly busy now so will save the rest of my PERSONAL (as opposed to 'mod') opinions later when i've had more of a chance to read this, but would like to point out one further thing:

 

At the point that bid posted this:

 

One other thing that has struck me about this thread, and again it is only an observation and not intended to offend, but...the majority of people commenting negatively are actually not people with AS, as far as I am aware :unsure: Which is interesting when it was two people with AS who were asking about something in the first place??

 

there were contributions from four known members with AS/ASD (I reiterate the point made that just because people do not state that they are autistic does not necessarily imply that they are not) - two of whom expressed that they preferred things as they are. That to my mind implies a 50/50 'split' and no 'NT' imperative whatsoever. The fact that more 'NT' (possibly!) members had posted is nothing more than reflection of the boards demographic at the time the thread was initiated...

 

Please try to stick to the point in question - whether a 'seperate area' would be a positive or not - rather than making it 'us and them'...

As someone who's neck has regularly been on the 'most wanted' lists of BOTH sides I can honestly say it's hurtful, and offensive when such accusations are made for all concerned...

 

L&P

 

BD

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