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LKU

serious trouble at school

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both my kids are excluded for this week.It's a long story so I'll just get to the point.I think the school are trying to force us out because they can't cope.

On friday we have a meeting with head teacher and ed welfare,they are going to suggest a reduced timetable (mornings only).It seems they have already decided that's what they're gonna do.We have told them that we don't want a reduced timetable.What will happen if we refuse.(permanant exclusion/special school have been mentioned recently).

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Hi

 

have you tried to get any support from your parent partnership? Do your kids have any support at school/have a statement? sorry for more questions, was wondering what the background is. This must a really stressful time for you all. >:D<<'> >:D<<'>

 

Elaine

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LKU,

 

I'm sorry. >:D<<'>

 

The school did tell me that they intended to start officially excluding him as this would according to them, help as evidence when trying to get the statement.

 

This is what you said in one of your previous postings. It's appalling that the school are behaving like this, they are wrong to say that excluding him will give you evidence. Ask the LEA for a copy of their Criteria for Statutory Assessment (It should be on their website but in many cases it's not). Look to see if it mentions exclusions as evidence for a stat. assess. it's often the case that they say it is NOT evidence for a stat. assess.

 

From what you have said previously about your sons IEP, it is obvious that he will not be able to reach these targets. It shows a clear lack of understanding by the school.

 

The school and the Educ. Psych. have said they will request a statutory assessment. It is often the case that they don't follow this through. You should request the assessment yourself asking for it to be fast tracked. You will find details of this below.

 

Fast Tracking Statutory Assessments

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.ph...st=0entry5836

 

You need support with this. Please speak to IPSEA or the NAS Advocacy helpline. You might have difficulty getting through, the NAS will take your number and call you back.

 

National Autistic Society (NAS)

NAS Education Advocacy including Tribunal Support Scheme 0845 070 4002

Website: http://www.nas.org.uk

 

Independent Panel for Special Educational Needs. (IPSEA )

SEN Helpline: 0800 018 4016

Website: http://www.ipsea.org.uk

 

Good luck if you need further help please ask.

 

Nellie >:D<<'>

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Thanks elaine,have just spoken to parent partnership.They are calling back with advice and may possibly come to the meeting on friday.

My eldest child is 8 and almost certainly has AS.We haven't quite got a definite diagnoses yet but all the "experts" say it's an asd.He is on school action plus and the school have recently started the process of statementing.

My youngest son is 5 and has been put on to school action plus today,just before they excluded him.He is full of anger and aggression,I think possibly a result of living with a brother with asd.The reduced timetable is being suggested for 8yr old only.They are both aggressive at school so I can understand why the other children in the school have to be protected from them.I just don't think a reduced timetable will make any difference.

Do you have to have a statement to go to a special school?

This option was mentioned by the headteacher this week.

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Thanks nellie.

I hadn't even considered that the statement process may not have been started by the school.I'm gonna look into this.Thanks for the links.

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Hi lku.So sorry to hear of all the problems you are having.I,ve been through a similar situation to you.Requesting the statement be done yourself is a good idea.We did the same as I had little faith in the school at the time.The parent partnership are a brilliant help aswell.It sounds as though things have deteriorated quite rapidy at school.Do you have any ideas what triggers your sons agression and anger?My son also gets angry and needs to be left alone in a quiet place.People looking at him when he feels stressed can also make him explode.On a more positive note two tears ago we were advised home ed was the best option.Today my son is Statemented and doing well at the same school with a really kind techer.Ther are still problems to deal withbut hopefully they have more of an understanding of ASD now.Hope you can get some help for your boys soon.

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parent partnership have just got back to me.They are coming to the meeting on friday. B) Will they think the reduced timetable is the way to go or will they be completly on my side?

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Am I being unreasonable by refusing the reduced timetable?I just don't want to be going backwards and forwards to school all day,(Ido have a life as well!!)

Do parent partnership understand ASD's?

Sorry about all the questions.

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LKU,

 

I'm glad you have support for your meeting. Some Parent Partnerships are wonderful and some are terrible. They are supposed to be impartial and although funded by the local LEA they should be run at arms length. They should not be on anyone?s side, they should give you all the relevant information, so you are informed and empowered. Some parents partnerships will tell you your rights in law, others will say what the LEA say, which is not always correct.

 

I would accept their support, but be aware they may not be giving you all the information or the correct information. I would still advise you to speak to the NAS education advocacy. Their advice will be spot on.

 

Nellie xx

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Suze,

A few weeks ago a group of girls teased my son and hurt him,they have been dealt with but my son can't forget about it and attacks them whenever he see's them.One girl is a particular problem for him.We have a meeting at school tonight with her parents and the headteacher.They have told the head that they are going to get the police involved.I do understand their predicament but I just don't know how to change the situation.

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My friend is a volunteer for parent partnership.Her daughter has dyscalcula.I would,nt expect whoever helps you on friday to have as much knowledge as you.They will probably be able to help you most with moral support and the legalities of the statementing system.You need to find out your childrens legal position as regards them enforcing the reduced timetable, if this is not what you want.Of the many people I came into contact with during our school saga,I was amazed at how little they knew of ASD.These people had read all the books and knew the diagnostic criteria,but no two ASD kids are the same and you are the expert.Good luck for Friday .

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Hi LKU,

 

You do need to have your child statemented to go to a special school. I'm sure it is the case across the country.

 

Have you spoken to the educational welfare officer about your sons? From experience, my EWO has been really helpfull and 100% on my son's side.

 

It sounds as if you're going through a similar experience as i have been through with my son.

 

He was excluded twice at age 5, and was also aggressive at school. The school wanted him to attend on a reduced hours basis, but he was so traumatised about being excluded, that he wouldn't go back.

I'm sure the school were glad about that, because i have always felt that they couldn't cope with him, and didn't want him there.

 

He is starting a special school soon.

 

Special schools are not always the answer for every child. I think it's wrong of the school to jump the gun like this. I think as a parent, you know what is right for your child. Have the school invloved the Behaviour Support Team? My son's school tried this, but unfortunately too late, because the damage was already done. Also, i think unless they really know about ASD, they can't help much, because their techniques don't always work on ASD children. Thay are not "naughty" children.

 

Good luck with the meeting. It will be great to have the PP there for support.

 

Loulou >:D<<'>

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Loulou,

the behaviour support team were brought in at his previous school about 2yrs ago,it didn't change anything.

When the head teacher suggested special school I said that the paedatrician had told me that my son wasn't right for a special school because he is very intelligent,has no learning difficulties.The head still insisted that there are special schools that would be suitable.

I am really annoyed at the moment,why is there no real help out there for people in this kind of situation? They make me feel like a criminal sometimes!!

Looking on the bright side at least I don't have to get up early for school tomorrow,so can hit the vino tonight!!! :lol::lol:

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Hi LKU,

 

It's all so frustrating isn't it? I feel like going to the LEA and screaming the place down, but then i'd probably get locked up and that wouldn't do any good!

 

When the BST came to see my son, they "observed" him in class and wrote a report, which contained about 15 negative things and only 3 positive. They made suggestions which would never have worked for my son, as he has ADHD and ?AS. They wanted him to have a designated "spot" on the carpet for him to sit on (as he wanders round all day). I said to the Head, "Unless you use super-glue, that will not work!", she replied "That's not the attitude now is it Mrs J?" :wallbash:

Silly woman!!!

 

My son is also very intelligent. He is going to an EBD school, which i'm not sure if it is the right type of school for him. However, the Head was great and he knows Kai may have AS as well as ADHD. He said there were quite a few AS kids in the school, although they are not experts in this area.

 

I will give it a try, as the teachers were all great, and the class will only have 5 other kids in it, two of which are AS.

 

I really wish you luck for Friday, stand your ground.

 

Loulou x

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You do not have to accept part-time attendance - your child has a right to full-time education. You need to ask what is the reasoning behind suggesting part-time? - when would it become full-time again? What would be different when full-time starts again? The school/LEA can put in extra help (eg:1:1) now if they choose to do so, in order to keep your child in school full-time.

 

There are specialist schools around too, that can meet your sons educational (mainstream level) needs and his social and behavioural needs - do not be palmed off with a special or EBD school if you really are not totally happy with them.

 

Karen

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thanks for your post kazzen,its just the sort of thing i needed to hear.

I'll use your advice on friday at the dreaded meeting.

thanks again

lku xxx

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Hi LKU :D

Like Kathryn, can't add much, only I hope all goes well 2morrow :thumbs: .

I two have a 'dreaded' meeting at 9a.m. with the school. Rage & Anger being top of the agenda. Incidently I was reading on another forum today, & there was a ? about education & a/s kids. There was a response from a mother in Isreal, saying it wasn't a problem for her her as her son goes to a school for a/s kids !! So why are there none in this part of France :angry:

Good luck

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Hi LKU -

Latecomer to this one, but very best for tomorrow.

Totally agree with everyone else that exclusion is NOT the answer - apart from anything else (like the fact that your kids might actually get to like it and actively seek to engineer exclusions) the negative message this sends to other children and parents is totally unacceptable... Exclusion is not a behaviour management strategy, it is an extreme disciplinary measure, and as such it implies that the children need to be 'disciplined' rather than supported. While I'm all for ASD children taking 'ownership' of their behavioural problems, I think this should be a positive learning strategy rather than an object lesson in name, shame 'n' blame...

That said, though, I've got to say that the school may have a point (albeit a badly expressed one!) about exclusion as 'evidence to support an assessment'... Fact is assessment criteria are getting tighter and tighter (as we all know!) and applications have to 'pitch' worst case scenarios to stand any chance whatsoever. While it's not right, this MAY be what the school meant. On the other hand, it could be a sneaky way of getting you to agree to a 'strategy' that wouldn't otherwise get under your radar; so make sure you have in writing details of timescales, objectives and intent...

VBEST for the morning

BD

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Thanks everyone,for all your support and advice.

I'll let you know what happened at the meeting as soon as I can.

 

>:D<<'> >:D<<'> >:D<<'> lku xxx

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We've had the meeting.Thanks to all your brilliant advice it went great.They had already decided that the only option was permanant exclusion or reduced timetable but we turned them around to 3 options...

 

1:home school but still on the school roll

 

2:full time 1to1 assistant from the lea

 

or 3: emergency placement

 

all 3 while we wait for the statement to be fast tracked.

 

They tried to fob us off but with the help of the parent partnership man (who was great) they couldn't get away with it.

 

I can recommend parent partnership help to anyone as he was a grest help and is also going to attend our meeting with the psychologist next week.

 

So the outcome of the meeting was exclusion for another week while they sort out one of our 3 options.

 

Thanks again i feel far more positive about my childs future :)

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Nellie,all the options are in mind as temporary measures until we get a statement.

If I had to favour one option it would be 1to1 assistant.

I would ideally want a specialist school that will understand my childs needs.The realisation that he is never going to fit in,in a mainstream setting has only really dawned on me in these last few days.

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LKU,

 

Good luck, I hope something suitable is put in place soon. Just a warning about emergency placements. My son went into an emergency placement without a statement, it was a nightmare, he was there for eighteen months before they even started an assessment. I ended up having to go to the Local Ombudsman. Just make sure they get your agreement. Everyone has to be in agreement. I would advise you to read the Code of Practice 8:23 - 8:28 which covers emergency placements.

 

Nellie xx

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LKU,So glad things went well for you today, you sound a lot more positive today than you did at the begining of the week.

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I think I would go for the 1:1 in mainstream, as it would probably be the best way to get a statement. If it became obvious that he coudl not manage with a 1:1, then you woudl already have evidence for asking for a specialist school - if he went to an emergency placement, they might say go back to mainstream and try with a 1:1 + I doubt he woudl get an emergency placement in a specialist school, and if placed in a special school, they might feel it best to keep him there, even if it was not appropriate to his educational needs. HE might also make it more difficult to get the evidence necessary for a specilist school.

 

Well done for putting up a good fight!

 

Karen

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LKU,

 

That's very good advice that Karen has given you. Sorry, I should have gone on to explain that when they finally completed my sons statement it was the emergency placement school that was named. I found impossible to get it changed, I ended up having to take him out of school for a year and only managed to get him into a suitable placement with the help of IPSEA.

 

To get a specialist placement you really have to prove that everything else has failed. LEA's have a legal duty to use their resources to the best.

 

Nellie xx

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The school say that J already has a 1to1,but they're not happy because they are paying for this from the school budget.So even if we get 1to1 by way of statement

I think it has already been proved that it's not going to work for J.

 

LKU xxx

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The school get a (pretty large) SEN budget to support children with SEN but without statements - you should not feel guilty about the cost as he's entitled to it.

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I wouldn't say the SEN budget is large (ours gets about �1,300 for a step 3 child ie:high needs) - but in our area the schools do not get any extra money for most AS children who have statements, so it would make no difference to their budget whether he had a statement or not (though it gives you legal redress).

 

Karen

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Blimey,your right!! I forgot all about the sen budget.

Why do they keep moaning about having to pay for the1:1 then?

Wonder what they want a statement for......I suppose they'll use any excuse to get more money off the lea.

I can't imagine how our situation would be improved by a statement,except to get a place in a special school............

You've given me a whole new way of seeing things now,i know i may be coming across a bit dim today,it must be the stress eating away at my already limited intellect.

:lol::lol::lol:

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LKU,

 

I'm a bit late, but just want to say I'm glad the meeting was positive and I hope you get what you want for your son.

 

K

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Do they really mean 1:1? Ask them to give you details - asks your child as well

- for how many hours?

- is the provision shared with other SEN kids?

 

I know that some schools "cheat" on the 1:1 especially if kids are not statemented - they may say that the child is getting individual support but the reality can be that all the SEN kids (with numerous differnt problems such as ASD, ADHD, EDB; Dyslexia etc) in 2 or 3 classes are sharing the same LSA who may have no experience with ASD.

 

My cousin is employed as an LSA 1:1 support for a girl with downs symdrome - but I know that she works in 3 different classes and only for 15 hours a week - therefore I doubt that the child is getting what I would regrd as 1:1.

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Why do they keep moaning about having to pay for the1:1 then?

I think the school is having a moan because the 1-2-1 LSA support is presumably taking up a sizeable chunk from within its own SEN budget.

Wonder what they want a statement for......I suppose they'll use any excuse to get more money off the lea.

Obtaining a Statement for your son would hopefully mean that your son?s needs will be acknowledged and met through the funding resources from the LEA, it would also mean an opportunity for the school to free the resources that have presently been allocated to your son, for these resources to be used to aid other SEN children.

 

My son was in a similar situation to your son, but in my son?s case, he was already statemented. In July 2003 my son received his final Statement. I disagreed with it; in September 2003 he began comprehensive school. In the second week of December 2003 the LEA sent the school some documentation that had to be completed by the Senco ASAP, the LEA urgently needed this documentation because it was tribunal related.

 

I had to collect some information from school on the last day of term, the headteacher saw me in the foyer and asked to speak with me. He told me in no uncertain terms of his disgust at having to fund the wages of my son?s full time LSA from within the school?s SEN budget. I was stunned by this information, I wasn?t aware of this, I thought once the LEA had statemented Daniel in July 2003 the funding would automatically be made available to the school. The headteacher informed me that his administrator had on two occasions during those past three months contacted the LEA?s finance department to secure the funding. Apparently the funding had officially been granted but it still hadn?t been allocated to the school. The headteacher bluntly told me "in order to meet your statemented child's needs, the needs of other SEN children are being neglected." He also made it crystal clear that he was furious with me for appealing against the LEA, because his staff had to complete a load of paperwork at a very, very busy time of year!!!????

 

I sympathised a little as I could see his point of view, but I told him in no uncertain terms that if he didn?t have the backbone to personally contact the director of education to sort out the funding issue, that was his fault, not mine. I also told him that had the LEA issued the final Statement on time, his staff wouldn?t have to complete the documentation during the Christmas period; I reminded him that I too had better things to do than fill in a load of forms at this busy time of year. I also made him aware of my legal right to appeal against the content of my son?s Statement.

 

LKU, your son?s school decided to implement a particular type of support to aid your son, it knew what it was doing from the outset, it shouldn?t moan about it at this stage.

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hi, just a quick update.Had a meeting with psychologist at camhs.She said Joe can't have an asd as he can show remorse.

She also said what is the point of labelling him anyway.

She blamed school for making his behaviour worse eg putting bolts on doors to stop him from escaping.

She said a lot of stuff that i felt was complete nonsense.

I asked how come every other proffesional who we have seen has suggested asd and why she is the only one who doesn't agree.

She has arranged appointments for her to see joe in march.

She makes me so angry,she is soooo patronizing.

I felt the meeting was a complete waste of time.

Anyway the school want joe to go back half days,they have arranged for a specialist asd teacher from a local special school with an autistic unit to come in and assess joe and have arranged for an asd specialist from the lea to also come in and assess.

I think i will have to agree to the reduced timetable so the "experts" can see him.

What would you do?

:wacko: lku xx

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Hi LKU,

 

I'm sorry your meeting with CAMHS didn't go to well, not all professionals have a good understanding of ASD's. No one likes being patronised, hope you feel better soon. >:D<<'>

 

Have the school given a reason why they want Joe to attend half days? You need to ask them to give their reasons. If they say they can't manage him, then they should get support for him. I would get back on to Parent Partnership, they attended the meeting with you, they should have a good understanding of the situation.

 

Take care

 

Nellie xx

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At our Governor's Training, the senior ed officer said schools should NEVER discuss funding issues with parents - it is not up to the parents to worry about funding - it is a school/LEA issue.

 

If you look on the dfes site you can see your school's budget. The SEN budget is for all children in the school eg: those who need a bit extra help with reading or maths, not just those with dx SEN. Often it only comes to �20,000 or so, so if the school has two or three children who need full-time 1:1, that is all the money gone. As a Governor and a parent of a child struggling in mainstream, I can see it from both sides.

 

Karen

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