illy Report post Posted November 23, 2007 (edited) Hi, i havnt posted in quite a while, Can a child with such a diagnosis and of this age, would they understand what Racism is? We have spoken to our child, Thank you for reading this Edited November 23, 2007 by illy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
annie Report post Posted November 23, 2007 Hi Illy, When my son (AS and ADHD) was the same age, I was called in by his teacher who was accusing him of sexual harrassment . Apparently, what had happened was that my son had told a girl in his class that he wanted to 'sex her'. My son admitted saying it but, the meaning of what he had said wasn't the same as the teacher had believed he meant, he had wanted to kiss her! At the time, my son was aware of the sex word (just), but knew nothing about the 'details' he just related sex with kissing and blurted it out. I know that sexing someone was something other children were saying at the time in the same context as my son, So, just going by the situation that happened with my son (different subject, but just as 'unacceptable'), your son may have heard the comments being said, but not understood the true meaning of them or how offensive they are. Annie xx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CarerQuie Report post Posted November 23, 2007 Also because our children can be matter of fact,he may have just been saying out loud what he saw, ie.'your skin is a different colour'. I would have thought that he was unlikely to understand what racism is.xx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
farfalla Report post Posted November 23, 2007 I know what you mean, my DS was involved in racism towards one of his few friends in primary school, the teachers said to him that the police could be involved and he was really scared. He didn't know what it meant, he heard someone else say the word, and copied. But DS with the bigger gob was the only one heard. This was before his dx, and I was called everyday over something....... its difficult to explain this to a child, let alone someone with AS, teachers need to be more aware of how to deal with this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pippin Report post Posted November 23, 2007 It gets me so mad when schools go overboard on the politically correct stuff, yet ignore the underlying problem. Tell them they're guilty of disability discrimination by accusing him of racism....that'll confuse them!! I've never met a 7 year old who understands what racism is...NT or ASD. They may repeat stuff they hear, but all that proves is that their hearing works!! And as for the primary school which threatened to involve the Police........I'm truly gobsmacked. I'd bet a lot of money they wouldn't call the police if an ASD child was hit!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
illy Report post Posted November 23, 2007 (edited) Thank you all for your replies of advice Edited November 23, 2007 by illy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cmuir Report post Posted November 23, 2007 Hi I'd be stunned if a child that age knows and understands what racism is. More than likely, if he said anything, that he's simply repeated what he's heard from a fellow pupil! Caroline. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
annie Report post Posted November 23, 2007 I know it may be worrying for you that the police may get involved, but I'm sure that if they do, the police will see for themselves that the whole thing is something that should never have got to that stage. Involving the police because any 7 year old has made an inappropriate remark is, in my eyes anyway just plain daft . Annie xx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted November 23, 2007 Hi illy - I have no idea whether your child at seven can know what racism means, but certainly by the age of seven some children can have an awareness of discrimination and the impact it has on those who are discriminated against. Look around the site, you'll find many many reports of children on the spectrum who are troubled by exactly these types of issues because people treat them differently. Whether your child does or doesn't understand the full implications of what he says is a moot point - the real question is can he/does he understand that some things are right and that some things are wrong? He doesn't need to know the 'why's' only that the behaviour is unacceptable... It gets me so mad when schools go overboard on the politically correct stuff, yet ignore the underlying problem. Tell them they're guilty of disability discrimination by accusing him of racism....that'll confuse them!! I've never met a 7 year old who understands what racism is...NT or ASD. They may repeat stuff they hear, but all that proves is that their hearing works!! And as for the primary school which threatened to involve the Police........I'm truly gobsmacked. I'd bet a lot of money they wouldn't call the police if an ASD child was hit!!! Pippin - sorry, I'm completely confused as to what you are trying to say here(?) i don't know why you think that trying to stop racist comments is 'political correctness' or why telling somebody - AS or otherwise - that behaving in a discriminatory manner is abusive is in itself an act of discrimination(?) Don't know about confusing them - it certainly confused me! They may repeat stuff they hear and that just proves their hearing works.... Absolutely agree, and chances are that's exactly what happened here. But if your child heard something that offended you - swearing or sexual comments, whatever - and repeated it would you just accept it and let him carry on doing it? If somebody elses child was doing it to you or your son, and that childs parent said 'he can't help it' for whatever reason would you accept that? Outside of tourettes or some other kind of condition that meant the child had absolutely no control I suspect you wouldn't, and this is not - from the information given here, the scenario in this case. Somebody else made a point when this came up a few days ago... would you stop your child from running into traffic because he didn't know the implications of what he was doing? We stop our children doing all sorts of things all the time, without asking whether they 'understand', and cross that understanding bridge when they're ready for it... It may well be that the school - and the parents of the other child - have overreacted, and that other children may have been involved in 'setting it up'. None of those things, however, detract from the fact that what your child did was unacceptable and that he needs to be made aware of that in whatever way is most appropriate to his level of understanding and communication, That's not punishing him - that's helping him... In your situation, illy, I would be going out of my way to apologise to the parents of the other child personally and to offer my assurances that, to the best of his ability to understand, my son's behaviour would be responded to. Additionally, I'd make sure that my son was with me when I did so, in the hope that my example provided a better role model than the others he is being exposed to. L&P BD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cat Report post Posted November 23, 2007 (edited) Whether your child does or doesn't understand the full implications of what he says is a moot point - the real question is can he/does he understand that some things are right and that some things are wrong? He doesn't need to know the 'why's' only that the behaviour is unacceptable... Hmm sorry I can not fully agree with you here because until a child understands why something they have done or are doing is wrong then even though you tell them it is wrong it may not stop it from happening, simply because they do not understand why it is wrong. I often say that my own two sons would be wonderful on the game show 'Catch Phrase' because they always say what they see. That sometimes means that what they say is inappropriate but to them they are merely stating a fact. It can often take sometimes to get them to understand that what they have said could be offensive or misunderstood. My eldest son is a prime example of this because I no no-one who is less likely to be racist than he. However he made what he thought were perfectly innocent remarks to back up the fact that he is anti rascist on a forum about this issue, in his mind he was expressing his huge dislike of racism and yet his post was seen as being just the opposite. He was mortified and it took us days to point out why what he has posted could be taken in this context. He is now 20 years old and he still gets it wrong. Do we punish him for that by saying simply do not post again or do we help him to understand why the post was seen as offensive? I personally believe that we have to accept that autism often means that there is an inability to be able to see where they have gone wrong, and just pointing out that they have done something wrong or bad may, in my opinion, lead to a general dislike of whoever we are telling them that they have done wrong to. People with autism are inappropriate that is part of their condition. I am not making excuses for them merely stating facts. I agree that this is an emotive subject but let?s not forget the disability here and say that even with the disability there is no excuse. Certainly not for direct racism I accept that but not when a child has said something in all innocence and does not understand their actions. In your situation, illy, I would be going out of my way to apologise to the parents of the other child personally and to offer my assurances that, to the best of his ability to understand, my son's behaviour would be responded to. Additionally, I'd make sure that my son was with me when I did so, in the hope that my example provided a better role model than the others he is being exposed to. Totally disagree with this. I may well seek out the parents and explain that my child has autism and that means that he can say and do inappropriate things as part of his condition. And if something he has said or done has offended then apologise. But if the other parents can not see that this is not a clear cut case of racism then they are then guilty of discriminating against the child concerned. I may offer an assurance I will endeavour to try and make my child understand that what he said or did was not acceptable, but also that it may take him some time to understand that. I would certainly not take my son along and publicly humiliate him for saying something that may well have offended but was never intended to do so. Cat Edited November 23, 2007 by Cat Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted November 23, 2007 Hi cat... two quick points, as my son is waiting to play a game... Hmm sorry I can not fully agree with you here because until a child understands why something they have done or are doing is wrong then even though you tell them it is wrong it may not stop it from happening, simply because they do not understand why it is wrong. Bit of a catch 22... I agree with what you say, but how do you possibly help him/her to understand if you don't make a point of letting him/her know it is wrong? As I've pointed out in my post - 'understanding' may have to come later - the issue is stopping the behaviour... taking the other example I cribbed from someone else about traffic, would you allow your child to walk into oncoming traffic while they were 'learning' that it was dangerous? OK, you may not be able to stop it, but you should try, and you should definitely be sending the signal that it is inapproriate... I would certainly not take my son along and publicly humiliate him for saying something that may well have offended but was never intended to do so. Do you mean you wouldn't publically humiliate yourself? For the child to feel humiliated implies a level of social awareness that is totally at odds with the rest of your argument. Personally, I would be more disturbed at the thought of people not seeing me have an expectation that my child not behave in this way. If my son causes deep offence to somebody, I apologise on his behalf, making sure where possible he can see me doing so so he has an opportunity for positive reinforcement. Neither of us finds it humiliating... Parents of two year olds teach them to say sorry, regardless of whether the child understands the full implications, why should that be any different for an older child who is negotiating the same social 'rules' at a later point in their development? Saying sorry can be embarrassing - and that's life. Have you ever said, 'I'm sorry - I didn't mean to offend'? That's exactly the same thing. Obviously you didn't realise the implications when you did whatever it was, otherwise you wouldn't have done it. It didn't negate the need for an apology, though. L&P BD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
illy Report post Posted November 23, 2007 Hi i would like to say thank you for all your replies advice and help. However please dont turn it into a debate, I am very grateful for the help, but would not like to hurt anyones feelings, thank you Hugs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cat Report post Posted November 23, 2007 (edited) Do you mean you wouldn't publically humiliate yourself? For the child to feel humiliated implies a level of social awareness that is totally at odds with the rest of your argument. Sorry bad choice of word. My son would not be able to stand next to me while I apologised on his behalf if he did not understand that he had done something wrong. Talking about him in front of him would make him very angry and he would then act inappropriatley again - making another apology necessary. I grew a thick skin years ago and so I would not feel humiliated. However if I am expected to understand that my son may have caused offence then I expect a level of understanding about his disability in return. But that does not mean that I do not teach my kids right from wrong or allow them to play the disability card because I do not. Cat Edited November 23, 2007 by Cat Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted November 23, 2007 Hi i would like to say thank you for all your replies advice and help. However please dont turn it into a debate, I am very grateful for the help, but would not like to hurt anyones feelings, thank you Hugs Hi Illy - I hope the answers you have received have helped. L&P BD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
