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bjkmummy

can a salt have the final say on whether a child is asd?

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my son j who is 4 has been at a special needs nursery for about a year for 2 days a week. he has speech delay and i felt he was on the spectrum which i still do!

 

went to see the paed late last year and it was decided we would move towards assessment and try to get him statemented for school in sept

 

the early interaction has resulted in j making good progress. the paed wrote tp the salt at j special needs nursery. i was at the school with his twin for a mum and tots session when the salt approached me and said she was very unhappy with the letter from the paed and rambled on about how she felt he was on the spectrum but i was in shock so switched off!!!

 

few weeks later it was j review at nursery. i was givenno reports prior to the meeting and the mainstream nursery didnt even write one!!! they asked dh how j was getting on rather than me. they had a copy of the salt report on the table but only gave it to me in the final minutes of the meeting when as if by magic the salt walked in! they went on to say again that they felt j making good progress and no longer needed the placement at the school so it would end immeadiately! the salt then gave me her report which said in conclusion 'it was unlikely that j is on the autism spectrum'

 

i left on tears as i feel that j is on the spectrum but am a lone voice screaming the fact! Im starting to believe that it is me and i must have some mental condition to be so resolute that j is on the spectrum (His elder brother b is on the spectrum!)

 

j now just going to a manistream nursery where they accept they treat him differently. his reports state he has little eye contact but because he is bright he needs to be with his peers

 

the salt report will have gone to the paed and i am due to see him in a months time which im dreading. im so worried about j starting school with no help whatsoever. i want to push for a formal assessment once and for all so that i can have closure on whether he is or not but in light of the salt report how far will i get????

 

i did go back and pseak to the special needs nursery and they felt that all of j problems were learnt behaviour from his elder brother!!! i just feel so alone at the moment and really dont know what to do next!!

 

really what im trying to ask is - is the salts opinion really have a lot of strength - can they dx asd or not in j case???????/

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Hi no advice sorry but how do they explain your other son not doing the same thing?

nic

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Hi.The SALT should not have the final say.He/she may not know enough about ASD to be able to give a clear opinion.This is especially the case if the SALT is not a specialist in ASD.Some SALTs have recieve extra training and are able to administar the ADOS.Hence the opinion they give holds more weight.

Ben had dysfluency and had weekly SALT for over a year.The SALT did not spot that he has Social Communication Difficulties. :rolleyes: Unfortunately the SALT may still have a lot of influence or some professionals may listen because the SALT supports the view they have.However a paeditrician within the NHS is able to Diagnose whereas a SALT can contribute to a team assessment but can not diagnose.Hence it would be worth being clear with the paediatrician about your views and wishes.If you are asking for an assessment for Dx then you have a right to ask as a parent.Karen.

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Hi.The SALT should not have the final say.He/she may not know enough about ASD to be able to give a clear opinion.This is especially the case if the SALT is not a specialist in ASD.Some SALTs have recieve extra training and are able to administar the ADOS.Hence the opinion they give holds more weight.

Ben had dysfluency and had weekly SALT for over a year.The SALT did not spot that he has Social Communication Difficulties. :rolleyes: Unfortunately the SALT may still have a lot of influence or some professionals may listen because the SALT supports the view they have.However a paeditrician within the NHS is able to Diagnose whereas a SALT can contribute to a team assessment but can not diagnose.Hence it would be worth being clear with the paediatrician about your views and wishes.If you are asking for an assessment for Dx then you have a right to ask as a parent.Karen.

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thank you so much for that advice - this is exactly what i thought. i got out the letter the paed had written a few months ago which upset the salt so much and i cannot understand whytheletter would have been of offence toher - the paed just thought it would be good to start the dx process and shes gone mad that asd has even been mentioned. as my husband said today shes probably seen him an hour every month whereas we have to live with him!!! she has an opinion and is upset that anyone else ie us as parents could think he is on the spectrum but the spectrum is so huge without a proper assessment how can anyone say even us as parents??? my husband has booked the day off and is coming with me to see the paed at the next appointment where we will stand firm that he needs to be formally assessed

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Its disgusting how you the mother is been treated here, the nursery worker needs reporting for her statements, many siblings have learnt behaviour to a degree but its doesnt cancel out the fact that he could have ASDs, and all ASDs have different levels, I would say the improvements have been because he has been recieving some support, take that away with nothing at all in school and that will be very difficult for your son and any further problems they can again just blame on learnt behaviour, I would write a letter to the special needs in education and express your concerns and still as a parent apply for an assessment of SEN, J didnt really struggle in the early learning like numbers, letters, shapes, and there was minimum exspectations in early school curriculum where he didnt cope was playtimes, dinner times, lines, assemblies, group work, social manners, interaction, speech, communication, understanding so just because they are considering he is bright they still must take into account all the other areas of his needs.

 

J is now 4 years behind in the curriculum as the work progressed to be more difficult and required more focus, understanding, attention and effort.

 

I would contact NAS and maybe enquire the possibilty of local autistic outreach teams to help further, also you could request a second opinion from an assessment centre that specialises in Autism, developmental disorders.

 

Has your son actually been seen by a number of specialists for example educational psychologist, clinical psychologist, peadatrition ect...

 

If he hasnt then I really do have some daughts in there assessment of your sons ASD and I would request a referral from your GP for a full assessment in Autism.

 

In ASDs speech and Language development difficulties are the early signs and you have clause for concern with the experience you have as a mother to a child already with a diagnosed ASD and that places your youngest at a higher possiblity as it is known to effect siblings.

 

I would cotinue with accessing further assessments.

 

JsMum

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the thing is as well j is a twin!!! so surely if he has 'learnt' behaviour then why had his twin not has speech delay and all the issues that j has had????? i know that j wont cope when he enters school. i wanted him to go to the same school as b who has been dx and has a statement has its a mainstream school with unit attached but the special needs nursery at teh review told me in no uncertain terms that j will have to go to our local school which has an appalling record for special needs kids as j would not get transport to his brothers school! we really have been left out to dry. i cirrently get respite for j from social services but i have asked to see my social worker as i now dont know where i am. theyve agreed to keep him on school action plus as a special needs senco for the area still has input with joe but to date since his review at the end of november she hasnt seen him again and no new iep has been written. the salt says j has no language delay which is utter ######!!! j would not come up to you and start a conversation with you! he is now back in a mainstream pre school with his twin and what is happening now is that she is looking out for him and he is copying her reactions to sitaution so i feel for her as she is now a real mother hen!

 

the special needs nursery also accepted that a year ago j was a child clearly on the spectrum but has now moved of it!!!! clearly j is a miracle of modern times if he can just grow out of autism. j behaviour is so much more pronounced that his elder brothers so its just so frustrating that im having togo through ths

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forgot to add that j hasnt had any sort of formal assessment not even the ados test etc. he is being seen by paed but just for medical reasons ie that hes growing etc although his sister twin is now towering over him and people are commenting he is losing weight as he is so particular about what he eats!!! the paed is next to useless.

 

j older brother was dx by cahms in another county. when he had to go through the statementing process j paed saw him re medical report and my elder son was on his best behaviour and he commented that my elder son didnt look/behave autistic!!! in school my older son is struggling big time and clearly is what is dx says it is and hes now 2 years behind in school - should be yr2 but still in reception so my faithin the paed 'exspertise' is zero. j saw a new paed last time and he was the one who argued that j needs to be dx and wrote to the salt to start the ball rolling. when she recd this letter from the new paed she went mad - she even told me she was furious - and phoned the paed up to complain that he didnt know j well enough to consider a dx!!!! the new paed had clearly had access to all of j notes and sat and talked to him! if j does turn out to be on the spectrum you will here an explosion coming from my direction as i will take it further

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What a load of codswallop. I have 3 children, all totally different personalities. I have a daughter who is PDD-NOS with comorbids of ADHD and Dyspraxia. Although she is the youngest she was diagnosed first as her behaviour was challenging from 1yr old. My youngest son is diagnosed with Asperger syndrome and Dyslexia, his was much more difficult to see his problems, especially at school as he falls into the placid "pretending to be normal" catagory. My eldest son, dx with pragmatic language disorder and Dyspraxia, he had problems which did not show up until seniors and then he went pop. He is the intellegant geeky professor, but when he went to seniors he started making himself sick and self harming, and in addition had serious problems with anger management, mainly due to him reacting to being bullied.

 

We had a problem with my daughter as she was young when she was assessed, like your son. The full extent of her problems did not get properly recognised until she started school. She was dx within one year of her starting school, but she still did not get the help and support she needed until April this year when she was statemented, thats 4 years of being at school. The pead said that assessing a 4 yr old child's speech and language social and communication is difficult, because a lot of what they assess eg literal interpretation, theory of mind ect does not start developing until the child is 5 yrs old. He said the best time to assess that is when the child is around 8yrs old. Having said that, he refuses to re-assess my daughter now despite what he said then, so that is the reason she has the dx of PDD-NOS and not a specific ASD.

 

It is always such a battle and it is hard, but as a mother who has been there, I always tell parents to follow their instincts and don't give up. Good luck. >:D<<'>

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You are being seriously messed around here by the nursery and salt. It is ridiculous that they are effectively going behind the view of the medical professional ie paed that your child needs assessing for asd. to have a review in this way, not provide you with the reports to look at before hand , and then alter hs placement is ridiculous.

I think you need to get very angry and complain!!!!!!!!!

 

Unfortunatley there is not the resourses in place for our kids. Was there a high demand for places AND IS THIS THE REAL REASON HE HAS LOST HIS?

 

Personally I would try and get an appointment to see the paed asap to discuss his diagnosis.

I would also put together soe kind of chronology of events and write to the salt manager and the nursery detailing what has been agreed and how this contradicts the medical opinion I woudl also express concern thAT his place was lost when the nursery hadnt even bothered to do a report!

 

If you let them get away with it now problems are only going to be saved up until later! :ninja:

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just an update - ive started to shout a little!!! we went back to our gp to request that j is sent to a proper assessment centre. the gp now contacted the hv and she didnt know j placement at special needs nursery ended. she was siding with the special needs nursery and wasnt keenfor the referral to go any further but i started crying and she has agreed to come out and see me.

 

met the area nursery SENCO today - j lost his place cos of funding cuts! he wasnt the only one.she feels that j has lots of issues and need lots of help to be able toaccess mainstream school. i have been refered to the ed psych as a matter of urgency. she feels that j may have adhd as well so this will now be explored. as she is now on my side it gives me more ammunation with my hv to do the formal referral. the senco went in to see joe and i aw her later when i went to pick him up. there were a few things i had forgotten to mentin but she had picked them up - her face clearly said it all - that j requires a lot of extra help and that i am not an over anxious mum. i have also today found out why the special neds nursery didnt want me to send j to his brothers school - the nursery has had huge cuts and a lot of children are having to go into my elders sons school so j couldnt go because there would be no room for him - why on earth they could not have told me this in the first place instead of me having to go through all of this.

 

the fight is not over but people are agreeing now with me that j is a demanding child and needs help. i ve seen my social worker and j willnot lose his fundingforrespite so that is a help

 

i want to say thank you to those of you who replied or read this thread - you gave me the strength to challenge what has happened and i will continue the fight

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>:D<<'> >:D<<'> It sounds as though you have made progress.I hope that the professionals involved are able to follow through with appropriate support.Karen.

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Good luck,This is where the fight starts im sorry to say and its a very long fight and not at all an easy road..

If your near ***** you can have your child referred there to be assessed. Even if your not living in London,there is an ASD unit there. They will also diagnose ADHD if your child has it.

Belive me when they go into school its even worse to try and get theie needs met.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have removed the name of the specific hospital in line with Forum rules.Please PM for information.Thanks Karen.

Edited by Karen A

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