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Flora

*URGENT ADVICE NEEDED8

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The LA, 7 days before the tribunal, have decided that they are definately dropping any suggestion of mainstream school and are offering a special school place (one of their own schools).

 

I already had a good idea they were going to do this so I took Bill to see it a few weeks ago. My independent EP also went to see it. Bill's dad is going to see it this afternoon (again taking bill to see if he'll actually stay in the building this time because when I took him he left after 15 mins and said 'he never wanted to go in there again because it stinks'!! He did in fact have a major shut down response to the extent that the HT had remarked to the EP that she was 'very concerned about his presentation' when he visited the school.

 

So, this is 3 seperate people visiting the school on 3 seperate days and each of us were given a time when there were no children in the school at all. The first time I didn't think anything of it though was a bit disappointed not to have seen the school in progress. When my EP was visiting it was a bit annoying that she hadn't got to see in any kids, but still easily explained as time was a factor (short notice). Now today bill's dad is going and he too has been given a time when the kids will all have gone home. When I found out the time he was given I started to get suspicious.

 

My suspicions compelled me to wonder why she isn't inviting us to go when their are kids in the school. I've visited several special schools and not once have there been no kids around so why is she doing this?

 

So I emailed the HT the other day (incidently she is now coming to the tribunal as one of the LEA's witnesses!). I explained to her that I would like to visit the school before the 28th Feb, and would like to see the school in action and at least get a glimpse of the peer group that Bill would be expected to join.

 

Heard nothing. Nor has she rang me back (I've left messages for her).

 

My question. What would you do? This can't be right.

 

Flora X

Edited by Flora

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Hi Flora,

 

I'd be tempted to send a polite email and say you're just popping in tomorrow morning (or wheneve you can manage) and hope someone will be able to show you round. If you then turn up in reception they can't ignore you. And if it's really impossible for them to show you round there and then, don't leave until they've made a definite appointment with you. How can you get a complete picture of the school unless you see it in action??

 

K x

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Flora ~ its so frustrating, plus I understanding where you are coming from, it makes you all so suspicious and untrusting, think I would ask to re visit again asking specifically to see the school in action with the children there.

 

Can't understand this at all.

 

Clare x x x

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It does sound a bit strange. Do you think the Head is keen not to disrupt the children during the day with visitors walking round, could that be the reason? I suppose it could be seen as dedication to the pupils in that she wants to be able to give all her attention to them whilst she's there without distractions, but I can understand why you'd feel a bit wary.

 

~ Mel ~

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Hi Flora,

 

I'd be tempted to send a polite email and say you're just popping in tomorrow morning (or wheneve you can manage) and hope someone will be able to show you round. If you then turn up in reception they can't ignore you. And if it's really impossible for them to show you round there and then, don't leave until they've made a definite appointment with you. How can you get a complete picture of the school unless you see it in action??

 

K x

 

 

Kathryn, the thing is that the tribunal is on Thursday!!!! So I only have tomorrow left really or unless I left the house in half an hour!

 

I am tempted to just turn up tomorrow.

 

Oxgirl.... this part really worries me. It did occur to me that she didn't want the children disrupted. However, I've visited special schools before and the kids were fine in fact were willing to talk to me and tell me about the school. After all, in a special school there are often professionals in and out so the kds are usually used to visitors. I don't mean this to sound bad, but it makes me wonder if she's trying to hide the fact that some of the kids are likely to be acting up and doesn't want me to see that before the tribunal.

 

Thanks for the responses everyone.

 

Flora

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I don't mean this to sound bad, but it makes me wonder if she's trying to hide the fact that some of the kids are likely to be acting up and doesn't want me to see that before the tribunal.

 

Yes, I can see why you'd think that. Do you know anyone with children at the school? Which one is it, you can pm me if you want?

 

~ Mel ~

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When we visited a possible special school for youngest DD, which she will hopefully be attending in Sept, we went twice. Second time DD accompanied us. On both occasions it was during the school day, and the HT had no qualms about walking into lessons, to introduce us and DD. I'd be getting abit suspicious too Flora. Unsure what you gain from visiting an empty school, other than get a feel for the building :unsure: Could your child's father make a definate appointment before he leaves today? I also think Kathryn's idea is superb, and I'd definately consider just turning up, having prewarned them via email. Does not bode well for the future either does it, if your emails and messages are going unanswered. How are you supposed to decide if this school is suitable or not, and argue your points, if you cannot "see" for yourself. Good luck.

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Sorry Flora - misread the 7 days bit in your first post. I can understand the panic then. :unsure:

 

Definitely worth turning up tomorrow, in that case, - if you phone them today and let them know, they can't say you're being unreasonable.

 

K x

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If she is still be obstructive with these visits then at the tribunal I would state very clearly that you were unable to make a constructive visit of the school and feel that until that is achieved you can not agree or disagree with this placement.....put the ball back to the head who for some reason doesn't want to see the children at work

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If she is still be obstructive with these visits then at the tribunal I would state very clearly that you were unable to make a constructive visit of the school and feel that until that is achieved you can not agree or disagree with this placement.....put the ball back to the head who for some reason doesn't want to see the children at work

 

Thanks x

 

I just don't want there to be an adjournment. I have witnesses and representation and couldn't afford them if there was an adjournment.

 

I think though that the peer group is a very important aspect and things look very different on paper than they do in reality. The fact that it is not an AS specific school and takes children from accross the spectrum and some with severe ld's, I need to see what it's like when they are all together. Otherwise I'm shooting in the dark.

 

I'm so fed up. My solicitor said that she's never in 15 years of doing these cases come accross an LEA that's been so aggresive and hostile.

 

flora

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Hi Flora,

 

I'm afraid I would just turn up too!

 

I have viewed a priory school three times now and on each occasion we were invited to see ALL parts of the school... we were introduced to teachers who were all very chatty with us and our dd.

 

If they refuse to see you, then this must be raised at the appeal hearing... what are they trying to hide? <sorry have a very suspicious nature> and there is no way my child would go to a school that I hadn't seen in action, I think you are right to be a bit concerned.

 

Anne

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I just don't want there to be an adjournment. I have witnesses and representation and couldn't afford them if there was an adjournment.

 

An adjournment is a strong possibility if there are unanswered questions about the school, so even if there are, this will need to be played down if things are not to drag on further. It can be weeks before a case is heard again.

 

K x

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Thank god for this forum.

 

I knew I was right to be suspicious, but it's great getting that confirmed by other people's views.

 

I will def turn up tomorrow if I'm not invited to do so.

 

You'd think they'd be going out of their way to allow me to see this place. It's not right to go to a tribunal expecting them to name a school without the parent having seen it properly. Turning it around, what would the panel think if a parent was asking them to name a school that they had only visited once when it was empty? They would send you away and tell you to come back more informed, or they'd dismiss your appeal!!! And yet there's every chance that the panel will name this school on his statment but because the LEA says it's right for him. They use the COP when it suits them to make judgements, but what about the COP where it says parents are experts in their children and can provide valuable information? They ignore it. Or they do what my LEA are doing and saying they are making it up.

 

12 months of hard work and preparation are fast being flushed away because of one lousy late about turn by our LEA.

 

Flora

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Go tomorrow or now if you can? We also visited an independent special cshool where we were told that we could only look through the door so not as to disturb the children. We objected and they backed down. My son didn't go there. You must be v stressed. I still feel sick when I think back to our tribunals. Our lea was also v hostile - the little contact I have with them now is fine by me. The guy at our lea who does the Tribunals is v well known among local families- they hate the fact that we all help each other! Keep calm, make notes if you can as they go through the evidence just to remind yourself and your solicitor if necessary of anything to contradict what they are saying and dont forget a picture of your child to remind the panel that this is a real child! And on Thursday night have a big glass of wine! Good luck.

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Hiya flozza!

 

and well done re the 'dropping mainstream' part of this thread :thumbs::thumbs:>:D<<'>

 

I'm a bit confused by the trubunal thing, 'cos I'd have thought if the LEA have JUST agreed that mainstream isn't appropriate the trubunal would have been cancelled/re-scheduled anyway - 'cos one of the major reasons for going in the first place is now a moot point(?)

 

The panel, however, is a different proposition, and it is time-critical because already you are in a position where the year's intake at local specialist schools is already well into the process of being decided...

 

Showing up on their (the school's) doorstep tomorrow is a good idea, but just be ever-so polite :wub: and say, 'I did write and ask but as the request appears to have been mislaid and it is now time-critical......' :devil:

 

what you should also do is draft a letter explaining all the 'change in intent' created by the LEA waiting until the 11th hour before agreeing with very well evidenced needs... If you can wrong foot the LEA in that way it'll maybe buy you some time without effecting the chance for your evidence/specialist input being presented 'in advance' of a decision...

 

Dunno if that makes sense - it did when i thunk it but I'm all of a rush! :lol:

 

 

:D

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I would be worried and just turn up and have a look, after all it's the school the LA are suggesting your son goes to so you would want to make sure it could meet his needs if it came to that or have a very good argument as to why it can't. >:D<<'>

 

I have looked at many special schools and if the school anticipated a probelm with any child in a class I have found the head or whoever has shown me around has explained the siuation and asked me if I still wanted to have a look or if I wanted to avoid, I think if the school can explain to you why they may not want you to go into a paticular class then you can understand, but to not suggest a time to view the school when children are there would make me suspicious :rolleyes: I have also been into schools where a child has already been agitated and found it comforting to see the way the schools have managed it, which has then given me faith that they are good at managing children.

 

All I can say is good luck, have you found a school yourself or are you just going to name the type of provision you want? >:D<<'>

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I'm a bit confused by the trubunal thing, 'cos I'd have thought if the LEA have JUST agreed that mainstream isn't appropriate the trubunal would have been cancelled/re-scheduled anyway - 'cos one of the major reasons for going in the first place is now a moot point(?)

 

The panel, however, is a different proposition, and it is time-critical because already you are in a position where the year's intake at local specialist schools is already well into the process of being decided...

 

Showing up on their (the school's) doorstep tomorrow is a good idea, but just be ever-so polite :wub: and say, 'I did write and ask but as the request appears to have been mislaid and it is now time-critical......' :devil:

 

what you should also do is draft a letter explaining all the 'change in intent' created by the LEA waiting until the 11th hour before agreeing with very well evidenced needs... If you can wrong foot the LEA in that way it'll maybe buy you some time without effecting the chance for your evidence/specialist input being presented 'in advance' of a decision...

 

Dunno if that makes sense - it did when i thunk it but I'm all of a rush! :lol:

 

 

:D

 

I know what you mean there, but the thing is I (and the inde EP) do not believe that this school is appropriate or can meet his needs. We anticipate that the placement will either not get off the ground, or fail very quickly. I would have been willing to pull out and give it a go but Bill is 16 next year, has been out of school for a year, and so time is running out for his compulsory education.

 

I don't think there will be a problem of him getting a place there; the HT has now been named as one of their witnesses (replacing the SENCO from the mainstream school) so she must be willing to take him.

 

Part of our appeal is over part 4 of the statement and I have named a different school in the appeal. So it's a case of proving that this other school can't meet his needs.

 

You make a good point though about their agreement of special over mainstream, which proves that at some point they agreed that they were ignoring vital evidence and had to name a different school.

 

The autism outreach teacher (who is also one of their witnesses) has already stated that an asd unit attached to a mainstream school would not be appropriate due to the nature of some of the pupils there (unpredictable behaviour etc) and I think this school is similar but in a different setting with a wider mix of special needs than an asd specific unit.

 

I am waiting for Bill and his dad to get back after their visit this afternoon and wonder what sort of response Bill had on this second (empty school) visit.

 

Thanks bd xxx

 

Flozza

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Hi Flozza....is this the BESD school you visited a few weeks earlier....? The heads reaction to Bill's shut down response is interesting...did you get that in writing in the end? That could prove very valuable. Also, does this school have provision for Bill academically? If the children are what you are describing, then probably no, and would be unsuitable from that angle.

s

xxx

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Sallya, yes it's the same school.

 

Bill has just been again to visit his dad. And guess what? The HT phoned me after their visit (before his dad dropped him off home again) and said that if anything Bill's reaction was worse than the last time, started to shut down as soon as they pulled into the school gates!!!. She has invited me to view a class in progress tomorrow morning :thumbs:

 

Now I'm going to go and chill out and prepare myself mentally.

 

Thank you all >:D<<'> Where would I be without you all.

 

Flora XX

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>:D<<'> , thinking of you, hope all goes well tomorrow............makes you wonder if this is all deliberate to facilitate an adjournment :wallbash: , hugs suzex

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Bill has just been again to visit his dad.

Flora XX

 

 

That should say visit WITH his dad, not visit his dad :rolleyes: He went to visit the school WITH his dad.

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I think that with Bill's response to the school, which has now happened twice, the head will have to relate that back to the tribunal on Thursday, if she is in agreement with you that the school is unsuitable for Bill, and is prepared to say so,... after all, having a pupil who can't even bear to get through the school gates is going to take a huge amount of work on her part....and she's the LEA's witness...uummmm.... :devil:

s

xxx

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The LA, 7 days before the tribunal, have decided that they are definately dropping any suggestion of mainstream school and are offering a special school place (one of their own schools).

 

It does seem very poor for the LEA to decide at this late date that mainstream is not OK. They have already put their case in writing, so how can they now change their minds and suddenly decide it is not suitable?

 

It is also not fair as it does not give you enough time to investigate the school properly.

 

I would imagine they are doing this on purpose - hoping the Tribunal will be delayed, and the place at the specialist school will have gone.

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Good luck for tomorrow Flora. >:D<<'>

 

Hopefully the panel will see that it's not in the interests of Bill's education to drag this out further.

 

K x

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Hope everything goes well today Flora at least it'll give you a much better idea of how the school is and if Bill would be happy there.Hopefully you'll have a chance to speak to the Head before the Tribunal tomorrow too >:D<<'> It'll be good if you can find out in advance what they'll be saying!

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Guest Lya of the Nox

sendin all the love and strength i have for you hunny

 

but you are a very strong lady

x

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Flora wanted to say good luck before but didn't get round to it >:D<<'>

 

How did it go? I hope the panel were fair towards you and allowed you to speak your opinion and that you get the result you want.

 

You'll probably be shattered now with a thousand should I of said this, I wish I said that running through your brain, just remember you would of done really well just going through with it, it's quite a daunting experience. Have a rest tonight and a glass of wine, you've done well >:D<<'> >:D<<'>

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