Oxygen Starvation

[Janey]

Hi everyone,

 

I went to a seminar run by the NAS last week where I met a woman who told me that her son had been starved of oxygen momentarily at birth and later recieved a dx of autism. This got me thinking that Toby had pneumonia at 2 months old was most definitely short of oxygen at such a young age. Does anyone know is there a link between oxygen starvation in babies and unborn children with autism?

 

Janey

[KarenT]

I've read that there's a link to difficult births, and we were asked about birth trauma at J's assessment. He was born with the cord around his neck and took three minutes to start breathing.

 

I'd be interested to hear what others have to say about this.

 

Karen

x

[aro]

My dd's MRI showed she had suffered Hypoxic Ischaemic Encephalopathy (lack of oxygen) in utero. She has cerebral palsy, ASD and Epilepsy as a result.

 

A x

[Cariad]

T was starved of oxygen as he had shoulder dystocia and had the cord wrapped around his neck, he then didn't sit up, crawl and walked like he has drunk at 18 months, then the strange language and obsessions. He had an MRI and half of his brain was completely flat!

 

It was ruled out that the damage happened at birth, but I still think the difficult birth caused these problems as nothing was picked up on any of the scans.

 

He has since been DX with ASD, ADHD, TS, SID and balance problems.

[Mumble]

My brother was starved of oxygen, severely jaundiced and in special care for ages. This may have contributed to his additional learning difficulties, but I believe his ASD to be genetic.

[di30]

With my youngest son (ASD) etc, I had both difficult pregnancy and a trumatic birth where the cord was wrapped round his neck, however I do have a severely autistic brother, he is 43 now and my husband's cousin is also severe with autism.

Di.

[Janey]

Thanks for your replies everyone,

 

I too have always considered Toby's ASD to be genetic and so did the woman I spoke to at the NAS seminar. But I wonder if oxygen starvation has anything to do with the severity or even the trigger of ASD's? Just a thought.

 

Janey

[KateBall]

Thanks for your replies everyone,

 

I too have always considered Toby's ASD to be genetic and so did the woman I spoke to at the NAS seminar. But I wonder if oxygen starvation has anything to do with the severity or even the trigger of ASD's? Just a thought.

 

Janey

 

I too have a niggly feeling at the back of my head about this and possible causes/triggers. My ds had some oxygen starvation at birth - difficult birth etc. Then again is it cause or effect?

[Bard]

B was fine at birth, 2 weeks early but no problems.

My NT daughter had a few breathing difficulties when she was born, but I always believed that it was caused by a combination of her extreme greed and an enthusiastic young midwife who wanted her latched on ASAP. G's nose was blocked, and her airway, but she wouldn't let go. Turned blue and spent 2 nights in ICU. Hasn't stopped eating since.

Looking at our family, I believe that there is a strong genetic link to ASDs

Edited March 4, 2008 by Bard

[baddad]

It is quite common for babies who are later diagnosed with ASD to have had difficult births, but some have speculated that this may actually be a symptom rather than a cause, and that the delivery is complicated because the baby is not instinctively responding during the birthing process. Don't know how that fits in with things like corded deliveries etc, but it's certainly something i've read/heard in the past.

Ben, BTW was a corded delivery, and the pregnancy was complicated with bouts of 'low level' pre-eclampsia before he was induced a week early.

 

L&P

 

BD

[bid]

Years ago I read somewhere the theory that autism may cause a difficult birth, rather than a difficult birth causing autism. I wish I could remember where I read this, as I found it really interesting. I think the theory went that an autistic baby doesn't 'do' the things during the birth process that a non-autistic baby does...labour being a complex interaction between the mother's body, the baby's responses, hormones, etc.

 

My son was grunting when he was born, and was immediately given IV antibiotics for a suspected chest infection.

 

No idea if the above theory is at all valid scientifically, but I did find it interesting.

 

Bid

[bid]

Snap, BD!!

 

[Clare63]

very interesting thread, I truly believe ASD to be genetic, however I had a difficult/assisted delivery of DS and he too had oxygen starvation at birth.

 

Clare x x x

[baddad]

My son was grunting when he was born,

 

Squeak, piggy Squeak! And he hasn't stopped since!

 

And back to being serious... yes, Ben had anti-b's directly after birth for a non-specific infection too... Anti b's have been speculatively linked as a 'trigger' too, and i suppose they would be more likely to be administered in a complicated birth(?)

 

BD

[pookie170]

And back to being serious... yes, Ben had anti-b's directly after birth for a non-specific infection too... Anti b's have been speculatively linked as a 'trigger' too, and i suppose they would be more likely to be administered in a complicated birth(?)

 

BD

 

Ooo, this is a bit spooky! Cal had a difficult delivery (think it may well have been on a par with how difficult I was finding it!!! ) and I know he had very low O2 levels, cuz the funny wee doctor wifey took a few fetal scalp blood samples to test. When he finally emerged, he wasnt a great colour, rather limp etc and had to have a wee chest massage and oxygen for some time. And he also had antibiotics for a non-specific infection! So did I for that matter, we both had high temps and stuff.

I also recall a while back that there was a thread regarding feeding a baby, and many parents said their ASD child found breastfeeding very hard- there has been research done into this and it does seem to be another early pointer towards an asd.

Must go trawl net for info on diff.births and ASDs!

Cheers, BD, Bid, thats another fine quest you've got me onto!!!

Esther x

Edited March 4, 2008 by pookie170

[Clare63]

Whoops sorry Esther......DS had no trouble at all breastfeeding, in fact had real trouble getting him off it !

 

Clare x x x

[witsend]

Hi - yeah this is interesting, I don't often dwell on the 'causes' thing but have to say my son (and I) did have a 'difficult' birth, I remember them saying he was getting 'distressed' which I now think must mean he was short of O2! I bled (sorry can't spell heamorraging!! ) afterwards so was immediately dragged off to theatre, often wish I could remember more about the event or see the notes!!

Having said that I also tend to believe in the genetic angle, and also I often wonder if there is a link with stressfull pregnancy (which I also had )

I always come back to thinking whatever the cause things are as they are and we get on with it but it is an interesting subject per se!

Luv Witsend.

[llisa32]

I too had a difficult labour - J was in distress and the doctors were worried about both of us making it - luckily we did but it did put me right off making any more!

 

He had jaundice straight after birth too

[rainbow queen]

hi

i had really drawn out bad labour and birth -he wouldnt come out ect.....the cord was round his neck and he had to have oxygen as he was blue and not making any noise.

 

also my nephew who is dx as -tourettes and ocd was the same birth ....(for my sister)

[lisa35]

hi

i had really drawn out bad labour and birth -he wouldnt come out ect.....the cord was round his neck and he had to have oxygen as he was blue and not making any noise.

 

also my nephew who is dx as -tourettes and ocd was the same birth ....(for my sister)

 

My son was born quite quickly- 6 hours- I was induced. he was very drowsy- was in low level dependancy for week- iv antibiotics- tube fed-low blood sugars, ive wonderd this too

Lisa

ps I couldnt get him to latch on to breast feed- didnt seem to "know" how to suck1

[Cariad]

Years ago I read somewhere the theory that autism may cause a difficult birth, rather than a difficult birth causing autism. I wish I could remember where I read this, as I found it really interesting. I think the theory went that an autistic baby doesn't 'do' the things during the birth process that a non-autistic baby does...labour being a complex interaction between the mother's body, the baby's responses, hormones, etc.

 

My son was grunting when he was born, and was immediately given IV antibiotics for a suspected chest infection.

 

No idea if the above theory is at all valid scientifically, but I did find it interesting.

 

Bid

 

It's funny you should say that, I had so many bleeds throughout the pregnancy and after countless gels as I was due the 11th Dec he was born the 29th Dec, they said that maybe he didn't have the signals other babies have to tell them it's time!

 

It all came back to me Bid with your post!

[Janey]

they said that maybe he didn't have the signals other babies have to tell them it's time!

 

Toby's birth was like that after being a week over due he still didn't want to be born and was eventually induced. It never occurred to me that it might be significant.

 

Janey

[KateBall]

My son was born quite quickly- 6 hours- I was induced. he was very drowsy- was in low level dependancy for week- iv antibiotics- tube fed-low blood sugars, ive wonderd this too

Lisa

ps I couldnt get him to latch on to breast feed- didnt seem to "know" how to suck1

 

My ds had low blood sugars for a while and tube fed.

I had pre-eclampsia - was out of my tree for a couple of months!

[Tally]

I know someone who was dropped on his head as a baby and now has Asperger's, and feels there is a connection. I know someone else who has a son with cerebal palsy and "autistic features."

 

My birth was quite normal apparently, except that I wasn't breathing and they had to pick me up by my feet and smack my bottom! But I think that's relatively common. My brother was 2 weeks late and my dad wanted to stop for a Big Mac on the way to the hospital but my mum sad no, and some other things that I couldn't possibly repeat! His birth was complicated because he was enormous. But he is not autistic, nor has any kind of learning difficulty.

 

Personally, I wonder if some brain injuries can mimic autism. That the person appears autistic, but this has come about for different reasons.

[kellyanne]

Both my Ds were early, H especially (10 wks prem!!) He was given anti-b's for group b strep as soon as he was born. Don't know if this is relevent, but now he's been referred to the SALT as the school have picked up on some communication probs etc...... J was born at 36wks after I had my labour stopped at 34wks. It wasn't the easiest birth nor was it the most difficult, He got stuck and they had to cut me to get him out.

[Suze]

Same here.....difficult pregnancy / labour and my son failed to thrive.............I,m wondering now about Bid/bads thoughts..had,nt thought of it like that before, but it makes alot of sense ..

[Flora]

Very interesting reading all the various experiences.

 

Both my boys were born by planned C/section so there wasn't any difficulty per se when they were born. However they were both given antibiotics within the first week of their life for some sort of infections. Bill constantly went blue for the first few months and also had several seizures not caused by high temperature but something else that was never identified.

 

Even though he had penecillin several times in his first year Bill became allergic to it just before his first birthday. I wonder if there's a connection with that too?

 

Flora

 

edited for spelling!

Edited March 5, 2008 by Flora

[jo4themo]

I had a "textbook" pregnancy with N, went into labour 4 days past due date and everything was going fine until near the end - I had just got to the pushing stage and she went into distress. They rushed me down for an emergency C but by the time they were ready she was on her way out, although they used Ventouse on her to get her out more quickly. She was a good colour when born and cried straight away and scored very well on the Agpar and as far as I am aware she was never short of oxygen, but having said that the docs and midwives there weren't very supportive and didn't tell us much.

BTW, she was a very healthy baby, but was prone to very bad tummy upsets as a toddler and pre-schooler.

[purplehaze]

Hi everyone,

 

I went to a seminar run by the NAS last week where I met a woman who told me that her son had been starved of oxygen momentarily at birth and later recieved a dx of autism. This got me thinking that Toby had pneumonia at 2 months old was most definitely short of oxygen at such a young age. Does anyone know is there a link between oxygen starvation in babies and unborn children with autism?

 

Janey

 

Hi My son also had a lack of oxygen and didn't breath straight away when born and has ASD. I was told he would prob have been born with it but difficult births can add to severity of ASD. X

[ScienceGeek]

I was born 5 weeks early and was a rather long labour as well.

[elun1]

O was born vv quickly -less than an hour from first pain and holding him in my arms! He was quite distressed at birth - meconium in waters and 2 weeks earlier just as in my previous pregnancy too. I think autism is genetic in our case as my sister's daughter is also autistic

Elun xx

[pookie170]

I find this kind of discussion extremely interesting- I found Bad's post on a difficult delivery being a symptom rather than a cause most thought provoking! (Not a state of mind familiar to me!!)

It certainly would explain a few things, for me at any rate!

I also think its a genetic thing with my son, as I knew he was different very early on, just didn't know why. Cal was also 10 days late, so maybe he really didn't/couldn't respond to certain stimuli in the usual way??? Hmmmm....

Esther x

[Caffeine Junkie]

'A' was delivered by C-section due to being breech. He had hypogycemia (even though my blood sugars where normal) and as a result was admitted to special care and tube fed. He was also monitored for having a large head - his head circumference was 40.7 - same size has an average 11 month old. His head was rather squashed at the sides as well. Which indicated he had been breech for a long time (although my midwife had insisted that he was not) and that his head had been lodged under my ribs.

 

Looking back, 'A' probably showed signs of autism at birth. While resting with him leaning against me - he suddenly flung himself backwards - I nearly dropped him. I just remarked at the time has how strong his back was - but it is not normal behaviour for a newborn.

[Cariad]

'A' was delivered by C-section due to being breech. He had hypogycemia (even though my blood sugars where normal) and as a result was admitted to special care and tube fed. He was also monitored for having a large head - his head circumference was 40.7 - same size has an average 11 month old. His head was rather squashed at the sides as well. Which indicated he had been breech for a long time (although my midwife had insisted that he was not) and that his head had been lodged under my ribs.

 

Looking back, 'A' probably showed signs of autism at birth. While resting with him leaning against me - he suddenly flung himself backwards - I nearly dropped him. I just remarked at the time has how strong his back was - but it is not normal behaviour for a newborn.

 

T was my first so I had no other children to compare him to, he was floppy and laid back, could only feed on an oz at a time then wind or he'd bring it back up with such force it would shoot across the room. When my daughter was born she was alert and nosey, and when she had the heel prick test she arched her back and turned her head to see what they were doing!! I was shocked, she looked like a demented monster

 

My other daughter was alert and into everything, by then T was having tantrums and you couldn't look at him as he would have a meltdown and throw one of his 1000000000 dummies (yes another toddler obsession)

[jo4themo]

That's interesting Caffeine as N showed signs of ASD from about 4 months old, but from an even younger age she too would flip back occasionally when being held (especially if she woke up at night).

[darky]

All mine were born quickly. My eldest within 6hours, but needed forceps, my youngest boy within 2 hours totally UNcomplicated, my girl born like a bat at out hell was born 45 mins after my waters broke which was the first I knew I was in labour. However, my youngest 2 when they were young had been very poorly with pnuemonia, my daughters lung collapsed and went on a maintenance dose of anti-b's for a year, my son had pnuemonia 3 times and was in and out of hospital frequently for 7 years and got pnuemonia 3 times. We have since found out the reason they were both SO poorly was because of their joint hypermobility. In this family it is DEFINATELY genetic.

[Janey]

However, my youngest 2 when they were young had been very poorly with pnuemonia, my daughters lung collapsed and went on a maintenance dose of anti-b's for a year, my son had pnuemonia 3 times and was in and out of hospital frequently for 7 years and got pnuemonia 3 times. We have since found out the reason they were both SO poorly was because of their joint hypermobility. In this family it is DEFINATELY genetic.

 

Thanks Darky, thats interesting, Toby has also had pneumonia quite seriously 3 times. First aged about 5 weeks old, then 18 months and finally age 7. He does also seem to have hypermobility although this has never been officially diagnosed. What is the connection between hypermobility and being so poorly?

 

Janey

[nedgly]

Hi, My dd was born 2 weeks early with a very traumatic and long (36 hours) labour, ending in a nasty forceps delivery and me being cut quite deeply. I think that it would make sense if this was a symptom of an asd, we always said it was as if our dd didn't know what was expected of her during her birth and that she didn't want to come out. As for feeding, she breastfed and was always ravenously hungry, always had a job to get her off. LOL

Nedgly

[Deblegs]

I had Oxygen Deprivation when I was born. Ther Umbilical cord was round my neck. This is the cause of my ASD.

 

From Debbie Hudson

[Jadensmum]

I had a relatively easy and quick labour with Jaden but he was born very quickly. My mum said he literally "shot out" I was standing up but the 2 midwives who had a pillow underneath me failed to catch him and he came out with the cord around his neck.

 

I think his ASD is genetic but he also has severe global developmental delay which I think may have come from a difficult birth.

 

I also think the severity of his ASD may have been "triggered" by the MMR or part of it but that's a totally different discussion and not relevant to this topic