Dealing with your younger (NT) child?

[shamu]

Sorry for a long and rambling post but I'm after some suggestions on how to deal with my younger daughter! She's nearly 2 and heading for the usual toddler 2s I fear. She is very verbal and we think she's NT but then we thought DS was fine at that age too. He was 4 in December and is effectively non verbal with limited visual attention.

 

James was never particularly "difficult" at 2 - I guess that was his passivity (I just thanked my lucky stars I wasn't dealing with terrible twos as well as pregnancy!) but he's very challenging now. Bea has started to copy a lot of his behaviour (in a non autistic fashion - she sees him throwing food on the floor or refusing something and she does exactly the same). So where do I start with disciplining her? It seems so difficult - there are things that James does (pinching my face, licking anything and everything, refusing to try "new" food) that I see as part of his autism, so don't discipline him (plus he has such limited understanding he wouldn't even understand). But I feel I ought to be firm with Bea if she tries the same behaviours. I don't think she's old enough to understand if I try and explain why James behaves as he does and that it's not OK for her to do the same, but I do want to be as fair as possible. I would hate for her to grow up thinking that we've always allowed James to do as he pleases (which is what it can look like,although that's not the case at all) but she has always had to tow the line. I am not particularly strict, I tend to go with the flow, but there are certain things that are going to make me crack, such as deliberately spitting food out and throwing it around the kitchen and pinching me.

 

So how did you do it? And have your younger children, once they were old enough, begun to understand that their sibling behaves the way they do because they're autistic, rather than getting away with blue murder?

 

Also, how do I deal with sibling rivalry? She is very jealous of us giving him any attention and if I am sitting down trying to work with him she will push him away, or butt in. He then escapes and runs off, so she's sabotaged the work we're doing. If he is cuddling me she'll want a cuddle too and she'll give him a push away, and he'll just go off and do his own thing. I worry that she ends up getting her own way because he never fights his own corner - he's a very very passive child (the therapists all say he's the most passive child they've worked with) and she gets really irate if I ever try and remain with him/his activity. I feel I can't do anything right at the moment James needs so much extra attention that she's really suffering - she watches a lot more TV than I'm really comfortable with (ironically James hates the TV!) as I need the space to get on with work with James. It doesn't help that he's not in the right educational setting, so I feel I'm letting him down if I don't do the extra stuff with him.... I just can't win

 

Shamu

[pookie170]

Hey Shamu,

this is a difficult stage,as she's so young. I think that being very firm about things would be the way I'd go. She is too young, in my mind, to understand an explanation about the differences between her and her brother. Make sure to reward her when she does something well though....Argh, I'm blethering again....what I mean is, say she sits down for a meal and throws it around. Be firm, without shouting, and tell her something like 'No, Mummy doesn't like it when you do that' and clean it up without any more eye contact or words-the more attention you give her for this, the more appealing the negative behaviour will become. But if she eats without throwing, give her a reward of your choosing (Cuz thon supernanny bird doesn't like you to give sweeties, the power suited spoilsport!! ) and lots of praise....And if it were me, if she spat food out or threw it, I'd clean up and take the meal away. And I wouldn't replace the meal either, as that would make her think there's an unending supply of foodfight makings? That might seem harsh, but I can't think of what else I would do.

Pinching, poor you- again, cut off the attention for this one-remove her hands from you, get up and walk away if you can- I don't know if this would be feasible if James is in the same room??

RE James' cuddle time- I would be firm on this one- don't let her push James away but encourage a group snuggle, if James will tolerate this-it sounds like he would? Are there activities you can set up for Bea to do alongside James?

 

The main thing is to treat negative behaviour with a loss of attention,cuz to a child ANY attention is good attention. Do you get to spend much time on a 1-1 basis with Bea? Could anyone help you achieve this if not? Please don't be down on yourself, you're a good and loving mum to both kids- and sibling rivalry is perfectly natural. I hope I don't come across as trying to lecture you, it's just that I can't think of any other advice to give you.

 

Good luck with this, take care and keep your chin up!!

Esther x

[Shnoing]

Do you know a girl aged 3 to 5 who could serve as a role model for Bea if they meet each other on a regular basis. You could try to look if Bea shows more the AS or the NT way of interacting, too.

 

Our son got his dx when he was 2. If your son's already dx'ed I think you have every right/reason to have a professional look at your daughter, too. Then you can decide whether she throws NT temper tantrums to manipulate you and should be disciplined or she's on the spectrum too and can't help it.

[rainbow queen]

i have this issue-my son who is dx asd is nearly 7 and my nt son is 5.............with me its the other way round sort of -my 5 year old is passive and gets pushed around and controlled by my asd son...........

my asd son is soooooo jelouse-he sabbatages any time i try to spend with my 5 year old.....

 

they fall out all the time-they will fall out of anything -ie a piece of scrap paper.........

 

i have to say my 5 year old has already learnt alot of stuff which i didnt want him to of my asd son-ive tryed my best explaining it to him ...in the end i just had to say to him look your brother is autistic -thats why he does these things-but you can not do it because its not the right way to go about things...............but your brother does as he cant understand things..........

 

there is some books you can get too -that explain things to siblings -i had one as well..............im lucky in a way as my 5 year old is alot more mature than say nt 5 year olds (i think this is because hes had to be........) and he now understands alot more..............but he has learnt alot stuff i didnt want him to..............which i am in the process of trying to correct...........some which is unavoidable as you have to live all together.......

rq xx

 

 

sorry i relise your daughter is alot younger..........but id agree with the other posts -try to tackle it while shes young-of course she wont understand full explaination..........but try to tackle the behaviours you dont want....i think i let things slide a bit when mine were younger .....as well as me being on my own and then going througgh all the assessment process.......and feeling low in myself ........its better to try and nip it in the bud as young as you can......harder to change as they get older.......xxx

Edited March 31, 2008 by rainbow queen

[forbsay]

hello

 

My asd son is nearly 8 and his wee sister is nearly 5. She frequently demands my attention and always wants to sit on my knee when M is sitting there. She copies some of his behaviours - which I ignore. From an early age, I have explained to her that M was special in a different way from her and she is beginning to understand this.

 

She is always looking out for him. I always remember being at my parents house and M was strimming at the table. My dad was looking at M and his wee sister said "it is ok grandad, he is just excited"

And they also have a very strong bond.

 

I found out I was pregnant when M was diagnosed at 2.5 years old. The doctors said it would be good if M had a bossy little sister and he certainly does that!

 

Forbsay

Edited March 31, 2008 by forbsay

[rocketgob]

I can't really offer any advice other than to say that I know EXACTLY where you are coming from - my son is 3 and ASD and I have a 14 month old as well and she is copying everything too including screaming!

[jlp]

I have one of 8 (AS/ HFA) and one of 4 (nt) and as another poster says, my 4 year old has learnt so much that is innappropriate. For example ds#1 has just become aware of swear words, from school friends, and wants to talk about them obsessively, he doesn't actually say the words but will say 'the f word' and 'the s word', which means I now have my 4 year old talking loudly about the f word and the s word which sounds terrible even though he hasn't a clue what they actually are!

 

We are having huge tantrums and certain rigid / controlling behaviours and I am torn between feeling that something is wrong and thinking that he is copying ds#1 and that maybe I am subconsciously reinforcing these behaviours by erring on the side of caution (for example if he wants the blue plate or his crisps in exactly the right position then I have been going along with it because I'm used to ds#1 needing thing exactly 'right' - however I've just, in the last few days, decided to try a tougher line.

 

It's a very difficult line.

 

My little one is still quite demanding of my time but it's not as difficult now as when he was 2 if that offers hope!

[sarahponari]

With us it is the other way around, and its still really hard! My youngest is the 1 diagnosed with ASD she is 3 in May, the older 1 is 6 this month (NT) and even she doesnt understand that the younger 1 isnt being naughty as such but she doesnt know what is right and wrong. We use a reward chart with both of them, and obviously it is mainly for the NT 1 as she goes up if she is good or down if she is bad, the 1 with ASD also goes up and down if she is good or bad but she obviously doesnt understand, but at least it is making the older 1 feel that they are both being disciplined in the same sort of way even though they are not

[shamu]

Thanks for all your replies - greatly appreciated and nice to know that others feel the same It's particularly difficult at the moment as Bea has recently fractured her clavicle (collar bone) and James was ill over the weekend so more challenging than usual....

 

I like the idea of Bea having an older role model - we have a few friends with (NT)children James' age who she could spend time with, but it's hard to take James along as well....

 

I just wish I could clone myself - James needs an eye kept on him at all times and often as soon as I sit down with a book/jigsaw/colouring with Bea he runs out of the room, into the kitchen and straight for trouble! Hopefully when he starts school things will be a bit better, so I'll have more time to give Bea. We do have some help on a Friday but I spend the day with James. Over the holiday though I'll try and get more time with Bea.

 

Shamu

Edited April 1, 2008 by shamu

[Enid]

I find this sooo difficult, my ds is 12, his younger brother and sister are 5 and 9, the nine year old understands, but the 5 yr old does copy the behaviour and learns soo many choice words and even copys facial expressions, that I too have had to tell them both, look he is autistic and you cannot act that way, but in the little ones eyes he see`s his older brother getting away with things as I try to ignore as much as possible at times to avoid a major meltdown, especially when driving!