(teachers dont teach you anything)

[andrea]

hi , don't know where to post this but felt i need to tell the story. ds1 dx as/add 5y 17 now was statemented at 6y to 25 hours a week. over the years his needs were said to be less and his hours were dropped to none. at 12y probs kicked off again .he started skipping classes (found in toilets) walking out of classes being abusive and aggressive. an outreach assistant was brought in to observe his behaviours.

 

she observed

 

when teacher gave instructions for lesson T messed with pen/pencil case /looked through window.

 

in strict classes (made to sit in seat) T only manage to write name and date

 

in less strict classes T walked around looking over other kids shoulder at there work and then sat down to do his own work

 

she concluded

 

T picked up no Que from teacher as to what he should be doing

 

T got all ques from looking at what other kids were working on (not copying there work)

 

she went on to say T was such an expert at doing this, he had been doing this a long time, probably all his school life.

 

 

T never liked school he always said there's no point going to school the teachers don't teach you anything!

 

T got extra support in class again

 

i hope this story will help us to help our children not go through this again <'>

[purplehaze]

This sounds alot like my son at school (14 ASD statemented 20hrs). My son often wanders around the school, can be agressive, sometimes only manages to write his name, or just fiddles with paper or pencils, walks around the classroom. Unfortuately I believe a lot more ASD children will be going through the same thing. I think more training and specialist schools is needed X

[Mumble]

There are quite a few teachers on this forum, and this sounds rather too much like the same old 'Bash a Teacher'.

 

Teachers 'teaching you nothing' may be your son's perspective, but there are always multiple sides to every story. Teachers cannot be expected to know everything about everything (especially given the different ways in which autism manifests) in the same way a GP would refer to hundreds of different hospital specialists.

 

Of course there will always be a need for more training, but we have to remember that every child is different, ASD or NT. And why single out ASDs? What we need is teachers who are interested and know where to go for support.

[Flora]

And why single out ASDs?

 

Because it's an ASD forum!!!!!

 

I don't think anyone is generally 'teacher bashing', I think it was just a case of someone having their say based on their experience.

 

We have all got varying experience of teachers, mine in particular ranging from fabulous and indepspensible to downright damaging! I think the type of forum this is, we should accept the context that it is in when someone wants to have a moan about a teacher etc.

 

Flora

[justamum]

fabulous and indepspensible to downright damaging

 

Same as my experience!

 

I have to agree I don't think there is teacher bashing going on here. But I would say is that teachers keep telling us how 'they having training' to deal with children and some forget that as soon as they are let loose in the classroom. This a moan about one of them.

 

My daughter teacher is currently teaching her 'ello, ello' French (very bad pronunciations) should I not moan about that for fear of being accused of 'bashing her'? If they are a bad teacher they deserve a 'bash' every now and again. Ditto a good teacher deserves praise!

 

The title teacher does not automatically mean respect..that's earned. Similarly a Doctor or nurse has to earn respect. Title means nothing if you are no good at your job.

[Mumble]

I saw a parent with absolutely no control over his three children as the bus stop today. He was letting them run around, hit each other and pull each other over, whilst bumping into those waiting for the bus. It was by some miracle that one of them didn't fall onto the road and into the wheels of the oncoming bus.

 

But I wouldn't say 'parents' in the plural, can't control their children, and if I did, all the parents on here would have every right to get cross with me for 'tarnishing them with the same brush'.

 

Yes, there are some appalling teachers out there, but there are also many, many others who, despite the constraints of the system, do everything they can for the children in their care. They're not going to know everything in every detail about every child they teach to the same extent the parents do because they are dealing with 30+ individuals who change on a yearly basis, whilst (in primary) having to teach 13 subjects and deal with all manner of other impositions on their time.

 

I totally understand when someone is annoyed with the actions of a particular individual teacher, but please don't use that to say 'teachers this' and 'teachers that'.

 

And I can't agree on respect - teachers should be respected, but in the same way that everyone should respect and be tolerant of each other. It can't go one way and not the other.

[Flora]

Mumble, if you read my post, you will see I said there are teachers who are good,I didn't say they were all bad. I actually said some of them were 'fabulous and indespensible' but that some were 'damaging'. I agree with you, some parents work hard and do a good job and others are appalling and frankly shouldn't be allowed to have kids in the first place. I support your right to say that.

 

The difference is that teacher are trained to do a job, they are professionals in the field of education, and they get paid for what they do. They are entrusted with the care and education of other people's children and I think if they don't come up to scratch, or if they do damage (which some of them do believe me!) then as parents we have every right to slag them off and complain about it. Yes, a bad parent can do as much or far more damage as a bad teacher, but that's a completely different discussion because parents are not trained professionals.

 

This subject has come up time and time again; where someone wants to have a moan about teachers in general, and then someone else comes along and complains about it. It's a forum with a lot of parents, some of whom are having school related issues and I defend the rights of those parents, if they have issues with teacher/s, to come on here and say it like it is without having to apologise for it.

 

Flora

[Karen A]

Hi All.

I have been around here long enough to know that there are parents here who have strong views about teachers.I also am aware that there are plenty of parents who have been on the recieving end of very unhelpful generalisations about parenting made by the general public,other parents and teachers.

 

However I think perhaps it is worth bearing in mind that andrea has only been around on the Forum a week and has never posted anywhere before.

She may well simply be expressing her sons or her own opinion.

I certainly do not think she deserves a hard time for expressing an opinion. People here should feel able to venture onto the Forum and feel welcome. Karen.

[Flora]

However I think perhaps it is worth bearing in mind that andrea has only been around on the Forum a week and has never posted anywhere before.

She may well simply be expressing her sons or her own opinion.

I certainly do not think she deserves a hard time for expressing an opinion. People here should feel able to venture onto the Forum and feel welcome. Karen.

 

Absolutely

 

Andrea welcome to the forum. I fully sympathise with what you said in your post, and I know that you were voicing you and your son's opinion, as was obvious by your post.

 

Flora X

Edited April 20, 2008 by Flora

[Bard]

This subject has come up time and time again; where someone wants to have a moan about teachers in general, and then someone else comes along and complains about it. It's a forum with a lot of parents, some of whom are having school related issues and I defend the rights of those parents, if they have issues with teacher/s, to come on here and say it like it is without having to apologise for it.

 

Flora

 

That sounds reasonable to me, everyone needs a place to vent and grumble about what they think is going wrong, and ask for help in resolving their specific problems.

 

Teachers get the opportunity to point out how little training they get, especially on the job, and how many other needs and demands they have to meet in class on a daily basis. I know that I've whinged about it at length, whilst trying to catch and cope with all the new initiatives that keep coming. But I do keep trying, and listening and being constructive.

 

So it's OK Mumble, they don't mean us.

 

I mean, it's an opinion. I'm going into class tomorrow, and whatever I do, I know that there are three lads who won't learn nufink, even if I teach them sumfink. And two girls who won't remember anything until Wednesday, when they've finally caught up on all the gossip from the holidays.

 

That's life!

Edited April 20, 2008 by Bard

[Mumble]

Mumble, if you read my post, you will see I said there are teachers who are good,I didn't say they were all bad. I actually said some of them were 'fabulous and indespensible' but that some were 'damaging'.

Yes, I read that and I'm not disagreeing with you, but the title of this thread says 'teachers' in the plural and doesn't make out an argument against one. Just as parents should feel free to post without a feeling that all 'parents' (plural) are being attacked, teachers should feel free to post without feeling the all teachers (plural) are being attacked. Those 'good' teachers have a lot to say that can benefit the 'parents' children and teaching is a demoralising enough occupation without teachers of an evening (once all the marking is done and the planning and the assessments and... and... ) seeing titles on a forum that everyone comes to for support again blaming teachers (plural).

 

Maybe I'm being pedantic, but a)I'm good at being pedantic and b)that I feel really strongly about this. It just upsets me to read yet another 'teachers can't get it right' post (referring to the original post, I know others above have said differently).

[Bard]

It really sounds as if the school didn't look at what was needed, and because andrea's son wasn't disruptive, then nothing was done to help him. Either indifference or battle fatigue on the part of the teachers, it often depends on the rest of the cohort and how hard the teacher is having to work to keep control of the rest of the class.

It's wrong, but it happens. Sometimes teachers give up the struggle and concentrate on the ones that are listening and learning. If they are bad teachers, they do it all the time. If you are doing the job properly, then you still have moments of 'why do I bother?' It's the same with parenting.

[Flora]

The thing is where's the balance?

 

This is not a teacher's forum. It is a forum for ANYONE (and if they are a teacher that is incidental) who is affected in some way by ASD.

 

Many of the people (not all of course) are parents or carers. Many of whom have had some sort of run in or bad experience of a teacher. If someone has a good experience of a teacher then they usually post on here about it (I know I have!), but they should equally be able (without question) to post about their bad experiences too.

 

Mumble you may be pedantic (I'm sure I am too), but not everyone is so you will get generalisations like 'teachers' or 'parents', but I think most of us here are intelligent enough not to read into that as meaning 'ALL'.

 

Nobody has come on here and said 'ALL teachers', or 'ALL parents', they just refer to a particular experience or experences, and they should be able to do that (providing no body is named personally) openly and without critisism.

 

Flora

[hev]

couldnt have put it better myself flo

[Bard]

The thing is where's the balance?

 

This is not a teacher's forum. It is a forum for ANYONE (and if they are a teacher that is incidental) who is affected in some way by ASD.

 

Many of the people (not all of course) are parents or carers. Many of whom have had some sort of run in or bad experience of a teacher. If someone has a good experience of a teacher then they usually post on here about it (I know I have!), but they should equally be able (without question) to post about their bad experiences too.

 

Mumble you may be pedantic (I'm sure I am too), but not everyone is so you will get generalisations like 'teachers' or 'parents', but I think most of us here are intelligent enough not to read into that as meaning 'ALL'.

 

Nobody has come on here and said 'ALL teachers', or 'ALL parents', they just refer to a particular experience or experences, and they should be able to do that (providing no body is named personally) openly and without critisism.

 

Flora

 

Agreed, if you post about bad stuff, not only does it help the person posting by letting them yell in an understanding environment, but there might be someone out here that will say 'Ahh, that happened to me, and what I did next was...' and they can offer solutions and suggestions that might help.

I think that it's difficult to change things unless there is a dialogue, and an acceptance that there are people and circumstances that need to change. And that includes some teachers, along with others.

[krystaltps]

Ohhhh, this is a tricky one.

I am a parent of a child with AS first and foremost, then I am a teacher of children with complex needs (including autistic children). I like to think I am good at being both a parent and a SEN teacher.

I can totally see where Mumble is coming from - as the title of the post immediately caught my attention and "got my back up". I feel very strongly about general "teacher-bashing" too, Mumble.

However, I do agree with Andrea on some accounts, as I lived through a year with my son when he had an absolutely appalling teacher... when I felt very angry - I still struggle to even speak to her when I meet her at in-service days, etc.

But I think Karen makes a very valid point in that Andrea hasn't been posting long, and I'm sure no offence was meant to the "good guys" in our profession. I'm also sure I probably made some unintentional generalisations when I started posting - I very nearly did it last week in reference to hospital office staff... then edited my post to correct my generalisation.

[Karen A]

Hi Mumble ,All. I have attempted to state this once this evening already but perhaps I was not clear enough.

Andrea is a new Forum member she has been here for a week and had not posted before.

As far as I can gather she gave her thread a title that happened to have the potential to inflame some Forum users.

She may not even be aware that teachers use the Forum .

She deserves to be allowed the oppurtunity to express an opinion.

I am not happy with a new member being given such a hard time by some members here for expressing an opinion.Karen.

Edited April 20, 2008 by Karen A
word change

[Kathryn]

Teacher bashing?? I think not. Nowhere in her post does Andrea generalise about teachers. It's therefore unfair to attack her for something she didn't say. The title is actually a quote from her son and so is perfectly appropriate, in my opinion. What's more, it does what a good title should do - grabs the attention.

 

K x

[morgan and alexandra]

This post sounds just like my DD who is 8 bless her. We currently dont have dx as although my daughter, wanders and fiddles and leaves the room etc, she is ACTUALLY learning. She hasnt been put forward for statementing as she is seen to be learning. I wonder though how much further she could go if she had 1:1. She definately responds better to 1:1. Her new school is considering at the moment.

 

I feel that her sensory issues affect her greatly and we are all in agreement that although she seems not to be taking in anything, when you can actually get her to do her work then she gets it done in a fraction of the time that most kids without her problems take a whole lesson over. I take my hat off to her.

 

We have had good and bad teachers over the last few years but I cant blame them entirely as my DD is very complex with her needs and what may work one day just will not work the next.

[andrea]

first let me say sorry i did not set out to teacher bash .we have had some very good teachers.i used the title because it was use by my son on many occasions. what i was trying to put across is if i had took more notice of what he were saying i may have been able to give him more help and support.

[Karen A]

first let me say sorry i did not set out to teacher bash .we have had some very good teachers.i used the title because it was use by my son on many occasions. what i was trying to put across is if i had took more notice of what he were saying i may have been able to give him more help and support.

Andrea you do not need to say sorry.

Please don't give yourself a hard time either it can be very difficult to figure out what help and support a child needs and even more difficult to obtain that support.Karen.

[Guest Lya of the Nox]

hey andrea welcome

<'>

it can be rough going on a new forum

and all you did was say as you and yours see it

x

[hev]

first let me say sorry i did not set out to teacher bash .we have had some very good teachers.i used the title because it was use by my son on many occasions. what i was trying to put across is if i had took more notice of what he were saying i may have been able to give him more help and support.

you dont have to say sorry,you didnt do anything to say sorry for <'> welcome to the forum anyway,looking foward to hearing all about you!!

[Flora]

you dont have to say sorry,you didnt do anything to say sorry for <'> welcome to the forum anyway,looking foward to hearing all about you!!

 

I second that Andrea... You've done absolutely nothing to say sorry for.... Welcome to the forum, and I hope nothing has put you off... It's a very friendly forum really

 

Flora <'>

[Suze]

Your son sounds just like my son Andrea <'> ..............he very often completely drifts off and tunes out at school.We discovered it was a sensory overload , too much auditory and visual stimulation.Tthrough out primary school my son would only ever write the date on his work, then he,d just scribble and drift off in a dream like state.He also appeared to have memory lapses and petit mal seizures .Many teachers perhaps would,nt pick up on this, particularly if the pupil was,nt being disruptive and noisy.....My son has had good and bad teachers, ............his words , thankfully he is well supported at high school and the staff with him are all ASD trained.Welcome to the forum best wishes suzex.

[David Matthew Baker]

First welcome to the forum Andrea. I hope you stay and find it a very useful resource.

 

I'm another who was a bit worried when I first read the title to this post but as you say it is eye catching and certainly attracts attention. Also in the main body of the post I can't see that anything is offensive and the title is explained. I also think all of us do generalise at times without always meaning to do so. When you're having a hard time it can be very easy to tar all people who fit in that same group. After today I could easily see myself making a mistake and posting something like "ASD students seem to be very unsettled after a holiday and it leads to an increase in the number of problems." Which would look like I'm saying that all ASD students cause more problems after a holiday. In reality it was really just a couple but as that took up a large percentage of my time today it is easy to forget the ones who were fine. (The problems also more come down to one of them been bullied by student from another class which is probably just as much the reason he was unsettled. Add onto that a lack of communication between our school and the mainstream and us turning up to get sent back as it was a P.D. day and I think even a lot of none ASD students would be feeling the pressure.)

 

My experience as a support assistant has also taught me that there are a range of different types of teachers. There are some who I would say are not fit to teach. Ones who won't accept support in their classes (this always makes me wonder why). Equally though there are superb teachers who enthuse you so much that you want to learn more than you need to. Personally from what I know about the passion that most of the teachers on here have I believe they'd fall into the last category. Even some who'd never admit that to themselves. There are a lot of people in teaching (this isn't from personal experience as unfortunatally I'm not yet a teacher but from talking to many people in teaching) who do feel as that no one appreciates what they do. In reality this isn't the case we just all often forget when something is done well that a thank you and bit of praise does wonders (and not just for students).

 

I also do believe that well targeted support can make a difference you do however have to be willing to spend the time to get to know the students and how you are best able to support them. At times that might be something as simple as arranging with the teaher the sitting of the S.E.N. student next to one of the stronger, focused members of the class. I also believe in allowing students a certain level of freedom. We ourselves often know best how we learn even if we don't understand it. You can easily tell if someone is copying or not for starters. To me it sounds like you're son struggles with the complexity of the verbal instructions. He either needs a support assistant to break it down into small chunks he can deal with and then understand or it putting in a different way (probably visual). It sounds in practice that he is finding his own method of getting visual instruction. I hope you're son gets better support and understanding at school soon as I'm sure then he would benefit from the teachers and the other support staff. Once again welcome to the forum. David.

[baddad]

Teacher bashing? I think violence in the classroom is an absolute disgrace! I blame the parents!

 

 

Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells.............................................

 

Actually, can I just say that as far as the title of this topic goes, it's really nice to see some good grammar

Hev started a similar thread a while back and it was titled 'Teachers don't teach you nothing'.

 

[Flora]

baddad

[Tally]

It's very common to title a piece of writing with a quote from within the writing, like Andrea has done. For example, titles of books do not always give a thorough overview of what the book contains. Andrea's post makes it very clear that "teachers don't teach you anything" is the opinion of her son.

 

But it does seem that teachers have indeed not been able to teach Andrea's son anything because of the lack of support he received and the poor communication from the school. I'm glad to hear he is finally getting the help he needs, and I hope that other parents can learn from Andrea's experience and put more pressure on the schools to give honest accounts of children's progress.

[andrea]

thanx for your support. T IS 17 NOW AND DROPED OUT OF SCHOOL AT 14

[hev]

Teacher bashing? I think violence in the classroom is an absolute disgrace! I blame the parents!

 

 

Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells.............................................

 

Actually, can I just say that as far as the title of this topic goes, it's really nice to see some good grammar

Hev started a similar thread a while back and it was titled 'Teachers don't teach you nothing'.

 

ive just noticed your comment mouthy,you wanna see him at greenwich flo,if i even look in his direction he gets frightened,on the forum though hes very brave,it wont be my katie hanging from a tree this time bighead,it will be you when i kick you up there

[Flora]

ive just noticed your comment mouthy,you wanna see him at greenwich flo,if i even look in his direction he gets frightened,on the forum though hes very brave,it wont be my katie hanging from a tree this time bighead,it will be you when i kick you up there

 

 

It does appear that he is probably a bit of a wuss (how do you spell that? is it wuss or woos? dunno!). All gob and no gorm as they say! (actually 'they' don't say, because I think I just made that up... as in gormless... in fact.. is there such a thing as 'having gorm'? If someone can be gormLESS then surely they can be 'WITH' gorm? ).

 

Must be too much sun.. it's 22 here!

 

Flozza

[mandyque]

To the OP - this is something which has come up for me today, although in a different way. My dd has been assessed by a SALT at the special unit she is currently at, and she told me that dd's understanding is significantly below her general learning development. DD is a very visual learner, and it sounds like your ds is the same. I'd risk a guess that he simply doesn't understand what the teacher is saying and that's why he looks at the other kids' work to get a clue on what he is meant to be doing. His ADD mixed in with his AS probably means that he can't take in more than a small amount of information at a time, and by the time he has processed that he needs to write his name and date, then a heck of a lot of time has elapsed and he is in trouble again

[Bagpuss]

Hi Andrea and welcome to the forum <'>

[owl]

There are quite a few teachers on this forum, and this sounds rather too much like the same old 'Bash a Teacher'.

 

Teachers 'teaching you nothing' may be your son's perspective, but there are always multiple sides to every story. Teachers cannot be expected to know everything about everything (especially given the different ways in which autism manifests) in the same way a GP would refer to hundreds of different hospital specialists.

 

Of course there will always be a need for more training, but we have to remember that every child is different, ASD or NT. And why single out ASDs? What we need is teachers who are interested and know where to go for support.

Hi mumble, I agree, i am a ta, and have 20 yr old dsd AS when he was 9. Teachers sometimes don't have the time or the aptitude to give to asd children, or any children with problems, come to that, but that doesn't mean that some of them wouldn't like to. \i have known one or two who wanted to support and understand, and others who couldn't give a monkeys, the same as there are brilliant teachers, and some who are clearly in the wrong profession and don't even like children!

My son ( going back some yrs now) was treated horrendously at primary school, and says now that he hasn't a single happy memory. There was not one single person in the school who even knew the word autism, let alone wanted to take the knowledge on board, and when i tried to pass books/leaflets on they were either ignored or i never received any feedback and the books disappeared. Some of this is political/funding problems and some is the old problem of teachers judging parents, but we cannot blame teachers fundamentally, even though some have bad attitude,

as they are put under huge pressure by paperwork, and often feel that other funding/provision should be made for these children. x OWL

[andrea]

mandyque i think your spot on with my ds1 .i will be keeping a eye on this problem with ds2 i think he is the same. we have had two hearing tests, he past both . he still says what ? every time we talk to him . he work well with visuals.

[julie1]

To the OP - this is something which has come up for me today, although in a different way. My dd has been assessed by a SALT at the special unit she is currently at, and she told me that dd's understanding is significantly below her general learning development. DD is a very visual learner, and it sounds like your ds is the same. I'd risk a guess that he simply doesn't understand what the teacher is saying and that's why he looks at the other kids' work to get a clue on what he is meant to be doing. His ADD mixed in with his AS probably means that he can't take in more than a small amount of information at a time, and by the time he has processed that he needs to write his name and date, then a heck of a lot of time has elapsed and he is in trouble again

hi this sounds like the problem we have with our daughter what advice were you given.