Oppositional Defiance Disorder

[mum22boys]

Hi,

 

For a while now I have wondered if M, nearly 8 years old, has ODD. I've kept it to myself as support following the ASD diagnosis was non existant.

 

We have had lots of problems at school with behaviour. Letters home etc. The other day i was talking to his private tutor who mentioned she felt he has ODD. Today we have had a meeting at the school and the Head has now said she feel M has ODD. She had printed me out a sheet on it. We agreed we thought so as well. I don't think the Head has come across anyone with it before and she is not certain how it is diagnosed, She thought maybe a psychiatrist not psychologist.

 

Has anyone got a child withh ODD as well and how do you go about getting diagnosed? Also how does this present itself with Autism as well?

 

Any advice would be welcome. Thanks.

 

mum22boys

Edited May 2, 2008 by mum22boys

[JsMum]

Me personally do not wholey agree with the lable ODD my son diagnosed with this has only made other assume he is actually just a naughty boy, I find the lable very negative and gives no extra understanding or support, if anything it sets the child up and the first person to be blamed in a confrontation.

 

Js oppositional behaviour is really related to an aviodance and the aviodance is because he is going to be doing something that makes him stressed, pressured, uncomfortable and does anything to aviod the task, usually in behaviour that is oppotisional or becomes aggressive if the person is not managing the situation properly, J does match the symptoms well but the symptoms are also in the discription of an Autistic Spectrum especially the higher end of Autism, as J has been assessed as having an Autistic Spectrum I now believe J has been misdiagnosed as ODD and I strongly believe when a child is diagnosed as ODD they are later diagnosed with ADHD/AS.

 

The litriture on ODD many proffessionals blame the parents of children of ODD too, suggesting the parents are alcoholics, ex criminals and its just very suggestive, services are very quick to say that ODD doesnt meet the criteria for help and many children in teens are then labled as Conduct Disorder again if it is they have Autism can lead to inapropriate placements and treatments including medication that may be very unsuitable for a child who may have Autism along with a co morbid.

 

I personally would stay clear of the diagnosis and if his behaviour is opposional look at what is the cause, the trigger and what could be in place to prevent the oppositional issues.

 

for me opposional is just aviodance to something the child gets anxious doing.

 

Keep a diary of what his behaviour is before, during and after and what concequences are in place, detail diet and sleep and look for the triggers.

 

JsMum

Edited May 2, 2008 by JsMum

[stressedmumto2]

I feel in many the same ways as J's mum. My son was first dx adhd then later had a dx of ODD, I tried to manage him that way by being even firmer with him and it all went horribly wrong.

 

My son's Oppositional behaviour is mostly due to anxiety, sensory over-load, not being able to do what he wants and when he wants something he can't have (many times this is an obsessional thing) and as a result of many of these triggers my son will display violent/aggresive behaviour which makes him look very defiant. A recent professional did say my son was defiant but that it was secondary to his asd/adhd and the stress he suffers at school, the same professional has stated that my son has pathologic demand avoidance which is actually a much better fit than any of the others!! PDA- the refusal to do things which may cause anxiety, if you do a google search there's loads of info and some of it may fit your child.

 

Many professionals state that ODD is often a result of mismanagement of ADHD or non-effective medication but I feel for the children who get dx with this label as service providers will say there is no help out there, also the ways of managing can be difficult for a child with ASD in my own son's case it casued so many more problems.

 

Good luck and I hope you get the correct diagnosis.

[LizK]

Your son's 'oppositional' behaviour might actually be related to his autism as the other two posters have said and I would look into that first. ODD is often related to parenting issues and if your son's difficulties are due to his autism then the strategies and implications of an ODD diagnosis may not be beneficial

 

Lx

[darky]

I don't rate the ODD diagnosis either, although it does exist, but I think it is a diagnosis banded around far too much, when I agree with the others here, anxiety can make a child refuse to do a task, but does not actively defy all the time. ODD is about a child purposely setting out to actively defy and test authority and enjoys doing so. Our consultant explained it like this. A parent/teacher/carer or anyone in authority draws a line, the child with ODD WILL cross it everytime. You say black, he says white. You ask him to sit down, he will stand. For a diagnosis to be given it would have to be happening all the time and in every situation. This kind of behaviour is clearly different to Autism where there is no malice or planned intentions.

[Shnoing]

In case you don't have it at hand, here's the WHO definition(s) from the ICD-10:

Mental and behavioural disorders

(F00-F99)

Behavioural and emotional disorders with onset usually occurring in childhood and adolescence

(F90-F98)

 

F90 Hyperkinetic disorders

A group of disorders characterized by an early onset (usually in the first five years of life), lack of persistence in activities that require cognitive involvement, and a tendency to move from one activity to another without completing any one, together with disorganized, ill-regulated, and excessive activity. Several other abnormalities may be associated. Hyperkinetic children are often reckless and impulsive, prone to accidents, and find themselves in disciplinary trouble because of unthinking breaches of rules rather than deliberate defiance. Their relationships with adults are often socially disinhibited, with a lack of normal caution and reserve. They are unpopular with other children and may become isolated. Impairment of cognitive functions is common, and specific delays in motor and language development are disproportionately frequent. Secondary complications include dissocial behaviour and low self-esteem.

Excludes: anxiety disorders ( F41.- )

mood [affective] disorders ( F30-F39 )

pervasive developmental disorders ( F84.- )

schizophrenia ( F20.- )

...

F91 Conduct disorders

Disorders characterized by a repetitive and persistent pattern of dissocial, aggressive, or defiant conduct. Such behaviour should amount to major violations of age-appropriate social expectations; it should therefore be more severe than ordinary childish mischief or adolescent rebelliousness and should imply an enduring pattern of behaviour (six months or longer). Features of conduct disorder can also be symptomatic of other psychiatric conditions, in which case the underlying diagnosis should be preferred.

 

Examples of the behaviours on which the diagnosis is based include excessive levels of fighting or bullying, cruelty to other people or animals, severe destructiveness to property, fire-setting, stealing, repeated lying, truancy from school and running away from home, unusually frequent and severe temper tantrums, and disobedience. Any one of these behaviours, if marked, is sufficient for the diagnosis, but isolated dissocial acts are not.

 

Excludes: mood [affective] ( F30-F39 )

pervasive developmental disorders ( F84.- )

schizophrenia ( F20.- )

when associated with:

� emotional disorders ( F92.- )

� hyperkinetic disorders ( F90.1 )

...

F91.3 Oppositional defiant disorder

Conduct disorder, usually occurring in younger children, primarily characterized by markedly defiant, disobedient, disruptive behaviour that does not include delinquent acts or the more extreme forms of aggressive or dissocial behaviour. The disorder requires that the overall criteria for F91.- be met; even severely mischievous or naughty behaviour is not in itself sufficient for diagnosis. Caution should be employed before using this category, especially with older children, because clinically significant conduct disorder will usually be accompanied by dissocial or aggressive behaviour that goes beyond mere defiance, disobedience, or disruptiveness.

 

Btw, pervasive developmental disorders ( F84.- ) includes autism, therefore both diagnoses exclude each other. Take care!

[Minxygal]

I think I'd look at PDA if I were you. Check out the PDA forum and perhaps talk to some other parents.

 

http://ccgi.pdacontact.org.uk/forum/

[hev]

stevens school before last say he def has odd but i didnt follow it up cos i dont think it would make any difference to any help he recieves