I.Q

[Abby]

Ok,I have been having a bit of a discusssion with some friends about AS,ASD,HFA etc

They say that you cant have AS if you have below average I.Q

Autism however you can ahve below average I.Q as people with Autism have learning difficulties.

Surely you can have AS and have a below avarage I.Q ?

What seems like a simple question has turned out to be quite a difficult and ongoing one!

Also,it must be difficult to test someones I.Q due to learning difficulties and understanding of the questions,timing etc???

Thanks for any replies regarding this question.

[florrie]

Hi Abby

 

I believe you can have AS and score a low iq although so far typically they say AS score high on iq and autism score low, but this is not quite right,and there is not full understanding of the processing problems involved in ASD as I have been dx with high functioning ASD and I scored with a low IQ ( due I believe to my auditory processing difficulty as it wasmostly verbal based iq test which they do with adults, but as a child I passed ll plus as it was non verbal) despite being able to fluently read at 2 had difficulties with GCSE's but yet can do a degree if is my own interest etc, I think the IQ is very limited is measuring peoples abilities anyway, as it only measures 2 intelligences verbal and mathematical/logical and there are 9 including visual spacial, kinisielogical interpersonal intrapersonal etc the more intelligences it measures the higher I score.

 

Most asd score high on logical ability, it is often part of criteria, but I score low on that but still have the squew in the opposite direction often not recognised as asd but causes exactly the same probs as asd.

 

Interestingly donna williams has an IQ ofless than 70 which is known to be mentally retarded and has a degree also she is high funtioning and I think extremely intelligent in other intelligences.

[MichelleW]

In theory the Clinical diagnosis has nothing to do with IQ. The differentiating criteria between AS and autism is all down to whether there was initial significant speech, language & communication disorder/delay. However, in practice it all depends on the person giving the diagnosis - hence my eldest son has never had an IQ test done, had significant speech, language and communication disorder but was diagnosed as not autistic initially then Asperger- then changed to ASD by third paediatrician. He is bright when it comes to computers etc, but can't remember things very well (edited to say he can't remember where he put things, or what he is supposed to do, but can remember whole sections of DVDs and stuff he is interested in!) , and can't do anything independently at school and therefor has learning difficulties. He has poor eye contact and stims a lot and is obviously autistic to those who recognise it - but I don't believe his IQ is low.

 

My second son has severe speech, language and communication disorder (on the 1st centile) but again is not diagnosed with autism, or ASD. He is likely to come across as Asperger when older (regardless of IQ) as he does not stim. his eye contact is poor, but does not appear as "autistic" - again his IQ will probably never be measured!

 

Michelle

Edited May 5, 2008 by MichelleW

[Abby]

Thats brilliant,thanks,MichelleW,you answered my next question too,this same friend also said people with AS stim,which I know is an Autistic trait,is it true that people with AS do not stim then?

I have still alot to learn about this and it seems such a lot to take in,its never ending.

Do even the professionals know everything ?

[lisa35]

hi my son has dx of aspergers- as far as Im concerned he does stim- sometimes he makes noises, when happy he likes to spin/ jump- depends what you call a stim

Think truth is there are no fixed boundaries- each child is vastly unique- and none fit in a "box"

x

[MichelleW]

To be honest, I think everyone stims to some degree. It is the type of stimming that is different. In the support group that I help with, out of all the children, only one other child is similar to mine with regards to the spinning, head slapping and hand flapping - usually when excited or stressed. He (the other child - not mine) was unable to walk or talk until 6ish, maybe later, but now you wouldn't know. The majority of the other boys are probably diagnosed as Asperger and don't show any obvious stimming. The two girls don't appear to stim at all either.

 

But I'm sure there are many that are diagnosed as Asperger who do stim in a similar way - I do not personally know of any. And then that is assuming that those that were diagnosed Asperger didn't have sgnificant speech disorder/delay.

 

Michelle

[baddad]

Hi Abby welcome to the forum...

 

Hope you don't mind me asking, but why do you feel sure your son/sister have AS rather than ASD?

Not all people with an autism diagnosis have learning difficulties - my son has a dx of autism and an above average IQ, for example - in the same way that not all people with AS have average or above average IQ's... The difference, as Michelle has pointed out, often has more to do with the preferred terminology of the consultant than any strict difference between the diagnostic criteria, which does largely focus on the acquisition of language (which is why most aduts who manage to get diagnosed will get an AS dx unless there is strong anecdotal evidence to imply a major delay)...

Probably, in terms of seeking professional input, you would be better off saying you are concerned about aspects of behaviour that look like autistic traits... there are so many shades of grey between the two diagnoses that even professionals rarely agree!

As far as stimming etc goes, there are no hard and fast rules for autistic, AS or even neurotypical people. One of my son's favourite 'stims' is twiddling his hair, for example. No doubt about it, it is a stim, but it's a stim he shares with millions of non-autistic girls for whom it is equally a 'stim' but ulikely to attract the same label!

 

Hope that's helpful

 

 

[Abby]

Hi baddad

You know I hadnt really thought about ASD as opposed to AS,I think because my son didnt have any language delay,he could recite the alphabet at just 2 years old,did all the jigsaw puzzles we had, could count to 20, and was also toilet trained by his 2nd birthday both day and night,but now he is struggling to keep up in school due to his behaviour,lack of organisation,lack of understadning of rules and socical skills etc.He is a very bright kid,but something is causing big problems and the school are very big on "ofsted" results and dont seem to like anyone who isnt the norm..well behaved..conformists...good little girls and boys.They dont seem to like anyone who is dffernt and keep putting his behaviour down to bad behaviour when in fact he dosent have bad behaviour at home,its just that we understand him and know how to speak to him and how to word things so that he understands,I think I have just answered one of my own questions actually,its how we talk to him that makes the differnce which they obviously dont realise therefore they arent going to get the same results as we do.

Regarding my sister,she did have some language delay,but not enough for it to be picked up on,she started speaking around 3ish,justs tringing two ro three words together,she has never done well in subjects at school ... except art,which everyone was surprised with when she got an A level....hmmm.

She worries me,simple things like getting on the bus and asking for a ticket to somewhere seems impossible,she doesnt seem to know what to say and clams up.There is definitely something going on in her head and mum makes her feel stupid all the time.I have tried to say maybe there is something wrong her but she wont accept it.

[julie1]

In theory the Clinical diagnosis has nothing to do with IQ. The differentiating criteria between AS and autism is all down to whether there was initial significant speech, language & communication disorder/delay. However, in practice it all depends on the person giving the diagnosis - hence my eldest son has never had an IQ test done, had significant speech, language and communication disorder but was diagnosed as not autistic initially then Asperger- then changed to ASD by third paediatrician. He is bright when it comes to computers etc, but can't remember things very well (edited to say he can't remember where he put things, or what he is supposed to do, but can remember whole sections of DVDs and stuff he is interested in!) , and can't do anything independently at school and therefor has learning difficulties. He has poor eye contact and stims a lot and is obviously autistic to those who recognise it - but I don't believe his IQ is low.

 

My second son has severe speech, language and communication disorder (on the 1st centile) but again is not diagnosed with autism, or ASD. He is likely to come across as Asperger when older (regardless of IQ) as he does not stim. his eye contact is poor, but does not appear as "autistic" - again his IQ will probably never be measured!

 

Michelle

hi im not sure if you will get this message but its for michelle. my second child also has a severe speach and language disorder with all her scores being on the 1st centile. i had to arrangr the tests to be done via a requst for a statement. we now have the statement but im not happy with the provision made so i am going to triabunal. i have not been able to chat with others regarding these problems be fore and im not to sure how much support my daughter should be getting. can you let me no if possible what support your son gets i dont mean to be rude by asking and wont be offended if you dont want to tell me. thank you julie

[Shnoing]

Ok,I have been having a bit of a discusssion with some friends about AS,ASD,HFA etc

They say that you cant have AS if you have below average I.Q

...

 

It's stated somewhere in the ICD-10 that the measured IQ must not be below 70.

 

Eta: The exact wording is:

no general delay or retardation in language or in cognitive development

(retardation in cognitive development equals IQ below 70) Edited May 6, 2008 by Shnoing

[smiley]

My dx is HFA..........my IQ was tested last year - it's in the 150's

My son's dx is Aspergers....... his IQ was tested two years ago - it's in the 150's

 

Doesn't mean either of us know what to do with it, or have a jot of common sense!

 

The only reason given for my dx of HFA was a severe language delay - and after speaking to my auntie who knew me well at a young age.

[LizC]

Hi Matthew has aspergers. when he was assessed it was difficult because of his concentration problems so his Iq was average. they did say they didn't think it was true though and believed his IQ to be higher than what the tests were saying. he is a very bright boy and works things out right away. he is very clever and talks and acts like an old man.

[Shnoing]

Unfortunately, your IQ test score doesn't determine how you succeed in (or cope with) day-to-day tasks. Like job interviews .

[Tally]

I think it can help to an extent. I think that someone with a high IQ can work situations out intellectually, where an NT would do so intuitively. It's not as effective a method, which is why an autistic person may still struggle with many day-to-day social situations. But I think the higher your IQ, the better your chances of getting it right.

[Shnoing]

Yes, you've got a point - to some extent, as I've got a job thanks to being in the 98th percentile - but also thanks to my willingness to work in a somewhat rural area: in the capital, my job chances are nil.