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Any ideas how I can disapline my 6 year old? She screams and shouts I tell her to sit in her room to calm down. This normally works if she has 'too much in my head'.

 

However when her brother wants to play with her it always turns into a screaming match when he doesn't play in hte exactly way she wants or touches something of hers. He also is being 'really helpful' and telling her off! She gets very distressed and upset and starts flapping her arms or slapping her ears over and over. This arguement get very bad even if I try to intervean, it normally ends up with R hitting her brother. Nw obvously this is not somthing she can get away with so we have been putting her on the stairs (yes I watched suppernanny :rolleyes: ) This works really well on my 4 year old but with R it sends her into a huge tantrum and rage. She kicks and headbutts the walls. She ends up being there much loner than the 6 mins recormended. I just wondered if anyone had any ideas?

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Any ideas how I can disapline my 6 year old? She screams and shouts I tell her to sit in her room to calm down. This normally works if she has 'too much in my head'.

 

However when her brother wants to play with her it always turns into a screaming match when he doesn't play in hte exactly way she wants or touches something of hers. He also is being 'really helpful' and telling her off! She gets very distressed and upset and starts flapping her arms or slapping her ears over and over. This arguement get very bad even if I try to intervean, it normally ends up with R hitting her brother. Nw obvously this is not somthing she can get away with so we have been putting her on the stairs (yes I watched suppernanny :rolleyes: ) This works really well on my 4 year old but with R it sends her into a huge tantrum and rage. She kicks and headbutts the walls. She ends up being there much loner than the 6 mins recormended. I just wondered if anyone had any ideas?

 

 

I used to do the stairs with DS but he really didn't care about it, I did the minute for every year of his life thing and it wasn't long enough to have any effect at all. He would also get one of his sisters to sit with him ad watch tv through the crack in the door so not very effective at all really. The tantrum also used to impact on everyone else in the house so we were all giving him attention by telling him to be quiet!

 

For a long while now I have been sending him to his room to "cool off" its the only thing that works here. He used to hate being on his own. He used to keep coming out of the room while screeming and tantrumming but I said that his time starts once he is in his room and quiet and once he was quiet he had to stay in there for 10 minutes. Nowadays it takes him longer to calm down so I usually make him stay in there untill I can trust him no be good which can take a while. :huh: Tonight he was very stressed after school and tantrumming so I sent him to his room but he kept coming out and throwing things down the stairs. He calmed down in the end but he must have been in there for an hour! :wallbash: Sometimes its just that he needs to be alone to chill out because he can't let go of the anger unless he has some space.

 

I also tried taking things away from him when he had been super naughty. One day I said I would confiscate the Playstation for 3 days, he said so what I don't care, I ended up taking it for 2 weeks untill he really really missed it and gave up the fight. I don't know about you but I find that the usual disapline measures don't work at all.

 

I went on a "managing your childs behaviour at home" course in the school and ended up in tears outside because I had tried all of the things suggested loads of times and they just don't have any effect on him at all. The person from school who arranged it knew DS well and said "don't worry it's different with him thats why you need a diagnosis. Bless her.

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I use the same technique as Sooze2, we tried the naughty step with DD but it made her hysterical. She was terrified, when we were living in our old house, I couldnt send her to her room as that terrified her too. Now we live in a bingalow and its much easier and she will go to her room and calm down.

 

With regards to hitting out at your son, we have the same problem here and are due to get some outside help in August. Im bringing up this subject as my other DD and myself have really suffered over the years so I will pm you if I get any tips ok.

 

We saw the lady who is going to try and help last week and she said I had done most of what she would have suggested anyway but I live in hope. Sorry cant be of much help.

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i too tried the naughty step with my son but it was like a red rag to a bull, he went berserk got more violent and it just made thngs worse

if i say anything in the way of correctional ...he accuses me of being mean, slams doors, hits my foot, or tries to destroy something of mine that he knows i like . . .i have no clue, i say please go to your bedroom but he wont go in his bedroom alone he says it scares him , everything scares him, if i shout i scare him, he gets violent with the doors or slams them or bangs them or throws things at them , i live in a rented house so i cant have that ...in those moments ..hes out of control

he screams too

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we also used the step with blaine but cos he does not understand consequence he couldnt really get it why he was there????? it got to the stage where he would ask to go on it and would even ask for more minutes????? i know it dont make sense so we stopped,,then the clever sure start advisor we were under told us not to bother and to then try reward charts and so on,,,my thinkin was it is sooooo much easier to reward good behaviour than to punish for bad behaviour,,,,then we noticed the triggers and could intervene before and distract him,,,,,dont get me wrong it worked for us but we still have the behaviours but not so bad,and we can deal with them a lot better......also i havent got another little one at home sooooo. cos my eldest is 17 and blaine gets on with him really well, he thinks he is the same age,,sorry couldnt be more helpful jo

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DS didn't like going in his room either, when he was about 3 I would put him in there and hold the door closed untill he stopped trying to come out or I put him back in every time he came out! He would kick the door, trash his room and break things but at least he wasn't doing it to the rest of the house and I never replaced things he broke.

 

God it sounds awful doesn't it but I had to do it or he would try and get to me by hurting his baby twin sisters, he used to hit them over the head with things when I was out of the room. After a while of doing this he accepted that that was just the way it was and goes to his room when I tell him too (usually screeming his head off), he still comes out but I tell him to go back in. He hates being on his own and so making him be on his own is the ideal punishment for him and he has to learn that he can't get away with bad behaviour all the time.

 

Sorry if you think I'm too hard on him but nothing else works! Some "freind" that don't have to deal with this type of thing have told me that sending him to his room will make it a bad place for him but I feel that he and I need that breathing space.

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we also used the step with blaine but cos he does not understand consequence he couldnt really get it why he was there????? it got to the stage where he would ask to go on it and would even ask for more minutes????? i know it dont make sense so we stopped,,then the clever sure start advisor we were under told us not to bother and to then try reward charts and so on,,,my thinkin was it is sooooo much easier to reward good behaviour than to punish for bad behaviour,,,,then we noticed the triggers and could intervene before and distract him,,,,,dont get me wrong it worked for us but we still have the behaviours but not so bad,and we can deal with them a lot better......also i havent got another little one at home sooooo. cos my eldest is 17 and blaine gets on with him really well, he thinks he is the same age,,sorry couldnt be more helpful jo

 

Rewards charts don't work for DS, they make him worse - Ive tried them loads of times. I did one for sleep a few months ago and he ended up not sleeping till 11.30-midnight some night and one night he was still awake at 1.30am! I was exhausted! The charts work for his sisters so I know its not my technique. He didn't want any of the rewards I suggested saying that he doesn't like X,Y or Z because he is very deffiant and oppositional. He claims not to care about punishments, nothing is his fault, there is always an excuse to justify why he did something. Discussing things like that are a wase of time because he will argue black is white even though you saw him do the thing in the first place!

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This may or may not work. We couldnt use the naughty step because I couldnt carry on dragging a kicking and screaming child to the naughty step. Same with his room. What I do now is if he starts showing off, having a tantrum etc, I turn around immediately and go to another room (making sure he is safe etc). Then after a few minutes when his rage is starting to dissipate, I ask him calmly if he is ready to join us again. If he isnt, I go away and give him a bit longer. This is more helpful for all of us. I just wish I could get my husband to do it, but no, he has to have a confrontation.

 

His teacher asks him to calm down by the time she has counted to 10 - she claims some success with this but it doesnt work for me.

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Peaches, that is the only technique that works with my DS too. I am a child care worker, presently working in a pre-school, but prior to having children worked for many years with children in residential care, so I KNOW what is supposed to wrk! but the only thing that helps us is avoiding the confrontation and leaving the room and waiting for him to calm down. Up your way in August, have lots of family there!! Enid

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my katie is 4 and nt and also asks to sit on naughty step so thats a no no!!

 

the only thing that really works with steve is ignoring him when he starts,easier said than done though

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The secret to getting behavioural therapy to work is picking rewards that really mean something to your child.

 

In my experience, stars and stickers don't really work with our kids...you need tangible, concrete and immediate rewards, not something at the end of the week or even day to begin with. You have to divide the day up into short periods, and reward each period to begin with immediately...rewarding the whole day has to come later when the behavioural reward system has been really well established.

 

This can work, but it's very hard work and can take a long time of being very, very consistent.

 

You also need to pick only one behaviour that you want to change, not a general 'being good' thing. You have to pick on something like 'No hitting', and only work on that, keeping everything very simple and using the same simple phrase every time the behaviour occurs.

 

The ignoring thing works in my experience for low-key behaviours, but there is a difficult line between the child stopping because he's not getting attention, and the ignoring actually working as collusion and the child believing they can just do what they want. I think the ignoring works best with redirection, too.

 

Bid :)

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Hmmmm.... ignoring the behaviour until they calm down? Where's the 'consequence?' Do you apply that after they've calmed down, and risk 'setting them off' again', or is the 'calming down' the end of it?

Ignoring it until it stops is a reward, not a consequence. Like it or not, confrontation has to be a part of any disciplinary regime, because you have to confront and discuss the behaviour and its implications and ramifications. That doesn't mean meeting aggression with aggression, and it doesn't mean that 'extinction' (ignoring the negative behaviours) doesn't have a role to play in the disciplinary process - but it should alway be a means to and end and the end should always be more than just 'a quiet life'. If it's hard now, when they're small, what happens when they're 18+ and still have the same solutions to the frustrations they face daily?

 

:D

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Ok, I know it is probably contraversial but after visiting the clinial psychologist with DS2 about his behaviour and then going on to read the book "The Explosive Child" both described what is known as the "Collaborative" something method (I haven't got the book at the moment as I lent it to someone else with an explosive child - with 2 more in the queue to borrow it!)

 

I've been using the method with H for a while, and since using it both myself, his father and nursery staff have noticed a significant difference in the number and intensity of his outbursts.

 

H was pretty much non-verbal and I thought it would be harder with a 3 year old, but now I use it with both kids.

 

It is best to identify triggers and prioritise issues and concentrate on the most important issues first. Then try to discuss the issues when the child is in a calm mood before an outburst or meltdown.

 

if i remember correctly you acknowledge the childs concern and clarify their reasons for concern. You then say something along the lines of " I know you get upset when X happens, but my concern is Y (It's now when you have to think about whether you have a real concern). You then ask the child to suggest mutually acceptable solutions, and listen open mindedly and discuss the different solutions (this is difficult with a non-verbal 3 year old) and you can help the child to generate ideas as long as you are not making them agree to what you want.

 

If a working compromise can be made, then great - but it needs practice.

 

Of course this works better if used pre-emptively (not sure if that is the right word) but it can be used to diffuse an outburst - just acknowledging that the child is distressed and clarifying the reasons can help to understand why the behaviour is occuring - and work to prevent it happening rather than trying to force the child to understand consequences during or after an event.

 

For some children, constantly asserting certain "disapline" methods that don't work (obviously 'cos they don't appear to learn from it and "re-offend") is not productive.

 

I would recommend at least reading the book, and giving it a go. If your current method of behaviour control isn't working, then you have nothing to lose, but lots to gain!

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Hi, Ive battled with this since J was around 18 months, and 10 years later, 7 parernting courses after Ive trialed and failed many methods, many things failed simply because it was not indiviualised to Js difficulties, in his early years I thought it was part and parcel of terrible twos, that went way past and for many years I managed him incorrectly, not understanding his developmental difficulties, time outs where not at all possible due to the time out equiptment been thrown or tossed along with what ever was availble because his rage was soo distruptive, it took police to come and sort things out calling regular throw his years, it was not a positive experience for either of us and left J more traumatised because they dont know how to deal with a child who has ADHD/ASDs.

 

It was impossible to keep to routines, because he didnt sleep, eat and conform to rules at home always in confrontations, that led to both of us coming to harm because of his behaviour, and he did win, many times, you have to look at the overall situation, how are they sleeping, what are they eating, how are they coping at school, what is there mental health like, what are they able to cope with at the moment, if a lot of things are been effected its very difficult for the child to cope, for us J had a lot of fears and anxieties, we worked throw these with a specialist, we looked at planning events, step by step plans, we got him help with expressing his feelings, and started to have expressive tools around the house, a kind of anger tool kit, things available to use when angry, and the biggest issue for us there was no where safe for J to be when he was really in a rage, that changed when we got an extra room to make into his sensory room, so for us this has been the best, the other evening J got upset because he was getting anxious about going to school the next day, that night he was in really aggressive mood, in the past this would of led to possible police been called or someone getting hurt, now he goes in his sensory room where he has access to music equiptment, punch bag, of which he used and he can calm down, so having somewhere designed for them to calm down, to reduce the behaviours you need to get to the root of the cause, sensory overload, built up frustration, self stimulation (which is why a sensory room is really effective) or a difficulty in expressing there feelings and thoughts.

 

Disapline for me is still very difficult for me to put in place because I understand the underlying reasons, you describe a girl screaming, this is not in my opinion a child needing disaplin but help in giving her tools to learn to self calm down, sending her to her room she will just see at as been punished for expressing her feelings, but now she feels alone and unable to feel heard, there is actually a therapy called the screaming therapy because its soo relieving and gives a sence of letting go, she is doing something natural.

 

Behaviour is a tool children use to communicate, if they have expressive and communication difficultes then behaviour is what they have left, when J is been challenging there is a underlying reason, a difficulty he is having, finding that will help lesson the behaviour, lesson the consequences, which I do agree they need but J gets miles more than his peers, because he doesnt think before he acts, is impulsive, and destracted, his actions are impulsive and unprodictable, on some days they come out the blue others times there is a slow build up.

 

One thing I have learnt over the years is that the parenting ideas in the books have to be tailored and changed to be able to adapt to your child, time out didnt work for J, but step by step visual routines have, warnings, confescations, planning, and a safe area where he can go have, its personal and individual to your child.

 

JsMum

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I agree with JsMum that you have to look at the individual child and look at the reasons and triggers for the behaviour.

 

Also you have to accept that these children are different, and if they have developmental delays or disorders in language processing skills, social communication skills etc. then they are probably delayed or disordered in other mental processing skills such as frustration control and shifting focus and attention etc. For example H is 3 and a half, but probably has the language skills of a 12-18 month old baby. So is it not reasonable to assume that if he can not communicate his needs or feelings, he will respond behaviourly like a 12-18 month old baby and also have other areas of developmental disorder? But he is the size of a 5-6 year old and when he lashes out, you know about it.

 

H still has boundaries, but I come at them from a different angle. For example there were many times where he wouldn't get in the carseat. And non-compliance was not an option. Before I'd spend 30-40 minutes trying to force him in (resulting in me being punched, kicked and scratched and him ended up exhausted and forgetting why he protested in first place).

 

I now just say to him "I understand that you are upset about getting in the car - why is that? I then have to try to interpret his non-verbal gestures and noises and say back to him "Is it because of X,Y,Z?" and get a yes response from him, then negotiate with him - like " J will be upset if we don't get him from school and he will cry and be upset, so what shall we do? How about we get in car first, get J from school then park?" It amazed me the first time I tried it and it took me 5 minutes with no aggressive outburst!

 

I've am also trying to get the two kids to resolve their disagreements this way - and it is making life so much easier. OK, it doesn't always work first time, but time out and star charts never worked for my 2!

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[quote name='bid' date='Jul 13 2008, 08:11 AM' post='2

 

The ignoring thing works in my experience for low-key behaviours, but there is a difficult line between the child stopping because he's not getting attention, and the ignoring actually working as collusion and the child believing they can just do what they want. I think the ignoring works best with redirecti

 

 

Good point Bid.

Enid

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Baddad, I agree in principle, my lad is big now! bigger that me, he didnt display these agressive behaviours until recently, as I am no match for him once he starts, I simply remove myself and the younger 2, the consequence is money, he only gets money depending on behaviour and we have a chart which we do every night, he also has to pay for any damage done. Enid

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The reason DS going to his room on his own works here is that it is a calm place for him, he recently moved into a new room and he didn't even want any pictures on the walls because he likes it plain and bare. Most of his biggest meltdowns happen as soon as he comes out of school, on Wednesday it started as he walked towards me before I had even said hello - it was very very powerful and brought the people near me to a silent standstill. The ones that come after school are due to overstimulation/noise/changes/writing/not coming first etc etc I can't take those things away for him. I also can't divert or distract. If I let him stay around us he will be agressive to his sisters and everything they do/say/think will make him worse. The only way for him to come out of it is to be on his own, beleive me I have tried everything but when you have 3 children and see the effect these things have on the innocent little ones you have to put them first.

 

Moving to a different room to him doesn't work because he will just follow us around like a jack russle with it's jaw locked, you simply can't get away from him. People who know us well have seen what he is like and he simply won't let anything go!!! Although he's better than he was. Also a lot of these kids don't see the consequeces for their actions, each new activity or misdemenor is just that "new" and just because they were punished or told off for it last time some of them won't realise that it means everytime you do that you will be told off. They think it only applies to that minute so they will do the same thing over and over again and be shoked every time they are told off! That is how my son is.

 

If I am going to give a consequence for his behaviour it will happen there and then and I tell him why. I will take him too his room and take the platstation out with me or something like that. Sometimes going to the room is enough because he wasn't in control of his actions - like when he is overloaded after school and he can't calm down untill he is in a quiet place. BUT when he threw his sister off the trampoline (through the net) in a rage things were confiscated and he wasn't allowed on it with other people for a month because he did it on purpose because he knew I had popped to the loo so couldn't see him.

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I must admit discipline is the one thing we struggle with, nothing works for our DS who will be 9 at christmas, he has nothing that is of great value or precious to him that we can threaten with taking away and in the past just says "i dont care" - time out is useless in this house, we have no-where that would be safe enough to leave him on his own really so he does get sent to his bedroom for some space, where he bounces on the bed until he calms down, but when he comes down he says sorry (this is a recent thing) but he isnt really sorry and doesnt realise what he should be sorry for, we also have 3 other children and alot of the time it's them that take the brunt of it, with him lashing out at them for no reason or taking stuff off of them, DS2 use to be covered in bite marks when he was about 18 months old where DS1 would continually attack him for no reason - DS1 was about 3 at the time.

 

smacking we realised didn't work along time ago but that was before we knew that DS1 has ASD - so no point even threatening that one, cant say he cant go round a friends, cos he doesnt have any good friends and never gets invited to parties.

 

the only bit of "normal family life" we get is when DS1 goes and visits his granny, altho he is still very on the go and talkative whilst he is there he doesnt get cross or lash out at her as he doesnt like being told off by anyone else because he doesnt know what the consequences will be!

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