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Well that was fun ...

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I have had the most frightening and yet surreal lunchtime/afternoon - I'm not even sure how I am now other than having a cracking headache, a severely bruised elbow, a cut across my chest and lots of bumps and scraps - I think I'll change my user name temporarily to Mr Bump. I think I should be angry, I'm definitely confused, I feel dirty and violated and have used a whole bottle of shower gel scrubbing myself clean.

 

So what happened, you ask?

 

Well I got very very upset at the GPs (not my normal GP as he was away) and left in tears. Walked out. Walked across the bridge to the bus stop to come home. I was at that pre-meltdown, semi-controlled stage and knew I wouldn't cope with the bus like that, so stood on the bridge watching the tidal patterns on the Thames splashing against each other - I was crying, and I was upset, so I sort of understand what happened next, but ...

 

Some 'helpful' member of the public called the police, obviously thinking I was about to jump (seriously, do they know nothing - if you're going to jump, that's one of the worst bridges to choose, the current is really slow ... :whistle:).

 

Anyway, as I was engrossed in the wave patterns, I was unaware of the three police cars pulling up to surround me. First thing I know is a police woman grabbing my arm. Well, given that I didn't at first register that she was a police woman and I'm incredibly tactile defencive and thought it was one of the general London madmen, I jerked away and tried to run ... Bad move.

 

Three large male policemen emerged from somewhere, I was thrown to the ground (literally, they pulled my legs out from under me so I went down top first, smashing my elbow, wonkying my glasses, and then the three sat on top of my to hold me down as I'm, by this time, screaming blue murder. I tried, rationally to reach for my bag to get my autism alert card. They thought (they told me later) I was going to get a knife/gun/bomb and two more jumped on top and had me spread out on the pavement, face down, whilst further police cars and an ambulance pull up to 'reinforce' me (BTW, in case you're wondering, I'm 5' 4", not well built and don't have big muscles or look scary).

 

Thankfully, the more sensible ambulance woman sees the medi-alert bracelet on my arm, takes it off, reads that I'm autistic and immediately gets all the burley policemen on top of me (I'm still trying and failing to thrash around and yelling at the top of my voice at this time) to back off, which thankfully they do (gawd knows what would have happened if they hadn't have found the bracelet).

 

I calmed down after a while (once I had the weight of several men lifted off my chest and could actually breath again) and they thankfully accepted my explanation and the policemen apologised and said that in London they can't take any chances :( I got them to call my hall manager who verified that indeed I was heading for the bus and that the bus stop on the bridge was the one I needed and they let me go.

 

I don't know what I do now - I assume that although they took my details I don't get any criminal record for that do I? - would be a problem in my work with children. :unsure: And I'm tempted to write and say 'oi', but thinking about it I don't know what else they could do? I could have been reaching for a weapon rather than an alert card. If I was a terrorist, the seconds wasted looking for a medi-alert bracelet could be important. So I'm not sure. I feel horribly dirty being spread out on the pavement in full view of hundreds of Londoners and tourists.

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Oh Mumble...that musta been absolutely awful for you >:D<<'> >:D<<'> >:D<<'>

 

Rest assured you will have no crimal record what so ever...so in terms of any future career etc you needn't worry about it.

 

 

For the rest of today though be very kind to yourself...ask for some painkillers if you have pain anywhere, take a long soak in the bath and make sure you eat some dinner.

 

Will log on usual place in a sec >:D<<'>

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Oh love >:D<<'> thank God you had your bracelet on.

I dont know what to say I'm so shocked. OK they thought you were a danger to yourself (others?) but sooo heavy handed, good grief.

 

I shouldnt think you'd get a criminal record. When you feel calmer you could maybe use that as an excuse to write to them, & educate them a bit at the same time >:D<<'>

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>:D<<'> I am sorry you had a tough aftrenoon however I have a lot of sympathy for the member of the public who phoned for help.Yes they made a mistake but members of the public are not trained to know what to do if faced with somone who may jump from a bridge.

I would much rather that a member of the public acted too rapidly than one who walked past and did nothing....which is what frequently happens in London.

My brother completed a suicide attempt over 30 years ago and there is not one day that passes without my wishing we had found him and stopped him.Karen.

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I'm sorry that this has happened. It must have been very frightening. Is there someone who can check you over?

You ought to make a complaint. If you can take photos of the bruises and other injuries. Can someone help you so that they can verify when they were taken ? Can you speak to a tutor or anyone who might help? >:D<<'> >:D< >:D<<'>

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>:D<<'> I am sorry you had a tough aftrenoon however I have a lot of sympathy for the member of the public who phoned for help.Yes they made a mistake but members of the public are not trained to know what to do if faced with somone who may jump from a bridge.

I would much rather that a member of the public acted too rapidly than one who walked past and did nothing....which is what frequently happens in London.

My brother completed a suicide attempt over 30 years ago and there is not one day that passes without my wishing we had found him and stopped him.Karen.

Hi Karen,

 

I totally understand and I know why the member of the public did what they did and why the police did what they did. I'm not criticising them at all and definitely better this way round. I was just wondering if there is any way the police could 'know' before acting as they did, if that makes sense? Had they seen my alert bracelet I wouldn't now be battered and bruised.

 

And I know people frequently do walk past in London - so ironic that when I was thinking about jumping a month or so ago no one tried to stop me, yet this time I got the full mob.

 

I really am not criticising the public and I'm really sorry if it came over that way.

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Hi Mumble I am sorry I may come across as being difficult but I am confused.

The police may have over reacted to the situation they were faced with.

However to be honest it could be argued that if an individual is recognised as having ASD then they are recognised as being more vulnerable.

Therefore it is more important that action is taken promptly to prevent loss of life.

Also you have stated yourself that you were thinking about jumping a month or so ago.

If this is known then it would be right that you be considered potentially to be at increased risk.

Any assessment of potential risk to life would always be considered to be a more imediate issue than another Dx whatever that Dx might be.

 

Karen.

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Hi Mumble I am sorry I may come across as being difficult but I am confused.

The police may have over reacted to the situation they were faced with.

However to be honest it could be argued that if an individual is recognised as having ASD then they are recognised as being more vulnerable.

Therefore it is more important that action is taken promptly to prevent loss of life.

Also you have stated yourself that you were thinking about jumping a month or so ago.

If this is known then it would be right that you be considered potentially to be at increased risk.

Any assessment of potential risk to life would always be considered to be a more imediate issue than another Dx whatever that Dx might be.

 

Karen.

Hi Karen, I'm confused by your post - I'm very tired and feeling a bit shakey now so it's probably me. I think my only point was that the police were so heavy handed there was no option for them to find out I was ASD and that the way they were treating me was causing my distress. I was just wondering aloud (having given some context) if there was a way they could find out I was ASD before throwing me on the ground and making the situation 10 times worse.

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You'd think after that they'd have took you home Mumble, since you were upset and had obviously had a bigger shock

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You'd think after that they'd have took you home Mumble, since you were upset and had obviously had a bigger shock

They did offer, to be fair, but I didn't fancy much either being delivered home in a police car or going in a police car with a bunch of 6 foot plus men who'd just jumped on top of me (cor, why can't I choose who, and when ... :whistle::lol:)

 

I don't think I'm going to get much sleep tonight; my head's racing and going through it over and over. :(

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Hi Karen,

 

I totally understand and I know why the member of the public did what they did and why the police did what they did. I'm not criticising them at all and definitely better this way round. I was just wondering if there is any way the police could 'know' before acting as they did, if that makes sense? Had they seen my alert bracelet I wouldn't now be battered and bruised.

 

And I know people frequently do walk past in London - so ironic that when I was thinking about jumping a month or so ago no one tried to stop me, yet this time I got the full mob.

 

I really am not criticising the public and I'm really sorry if it came over that way.

 

Sorry to confuse you more.I was responding to the comment above regarding whether the police could know before acting as they did and whether if they had seen the alert bracelet they might have acted differently.

I did attempt to give an answer to the question I thought you were asking. :unsure::unsure: Karen.

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i think if someones on a bridge and obviously in distress that its a bit heavy handed for the police to pin themselves on top of her and be so rough,i think a bit of kindness wouldnt have been to much to ask,its different if mumble had been aggressive when they got there but she was standing crying when they got to her,i think its wrong they made her lay on the floor,one of the policemen could have held mumble with no trouble and thats not me being offensive mumble,im just meaning that you are hardly built like a wrestler are you

 

anyway i hope you ok,it must have been a horrific experience,i think the passer by was right to call the police if she was worried,too many people walk straight past when someones upset but the police were over the top

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Mumble >:D<<'> what a horrible experience. I think the police should've approached you with a little more sensitivity - perhaps a, 'do you need any help?' type approach instead of an all-out rugby tackle. I'm not surprised you're feeling shook up, I would be too. Thank goodness for the alert paramedic. Hope you manage to get some rest tonight.

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I hope that a few hours later you are feeling better. Perhaps my first post was overly practical- rather tellling of my training. However if you were my child I would be beside myself and it worries me that this can happen so easily. >:D<<'> >:D< >:D<<'>

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Hi mumble, it was obviously a very harrowing experience. But from the POV of the police they were just doing their job. If it appeared by your demeanour that you were possibly intending to jump the last thing they would think of is hurt feelings or sensitivities relating to ASD... even if they'd known... they probably wouldn't have handled it any differently.

 

That being said I'm sure it was very scary and traumatic :( I doubt very much that you'll have a criminal record !!!

 

Flora >:D<<'>

Edited by Flora

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You havent committed a crime so you wont have a criminal record.

 

The incident will likely be recorded somewhere on your local police forces records.

 

 

Although i can understand the police attendance, the heavy handed approach is in my opinion excessive for a potetential "jumper" especially as you wernt sitting on the parapet. Had ypu been right on the parapet legs danging then obviously a rapid and decisive response was necessary. In this case i feel the WPC should have identified herself before grabbing you. Even if youd ran when you heard her voice you wouldnt have got over the edge...... They would have a hard time justifying immediate danger to life. MANY people grabbed from behind with no warning would assume they are being attacked/mugged etc and defend themself accordingly ( i know i do!!). The daft thing is that the Police know this and are taught that people will fight off all apparent attacks when surprised and it can be hard to get the message through to them that your police when they are fighting you off!

 

A person your size could have been easily controlled by 2 officers one on each arm/shoulder with a third to hand cuff you as required!! Also they are not supposed to throw you to the ground in an uncontrolled manner due to injury risk!! I can understand thier "anti-terror" perspective on things but that doesnt give them the right to be physically heavy handed.

 

Unfortunately theres nothing you can do really unless incident was caught on camera. You could complain about the injurys and get a "sympathy" letter off the police but unless theres clear evidence to prove thier actions excessive then nothing much would happen as officers are trusted on thier judgement of the situation and they may have judged your life and (when you grabbed bag) thiers in danger. Yes they were jumpy and overhyped these days.

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Also they are not supposed to throw you to the ground in an uncontrolled manner due to injury risk!!

Well it's 2am and I'm up because my elbow's swollen up, my fingers have gone tingly so I'm doing Bard style one finger typing (slow process) and any time I touch my arm/have bedding touching it it hurts. I have enough trouble sleeping as it is without this. :(

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What a horrible, upsetting experience. It could have been avoided if the wpc had aproached you and spoken to you first, rather than grab your arm. While I understand they needed to find out if you were about to jump, they could have done it without grabbing you and jumping on you.

(I've worked on the emergency assessment unit at the hospital (admission ward after casulty), and if I approached a patient in that manner, it 's liable to bring on any sort of unpredictable response- the most likely being a thump....... )I hope they apologised, Mumble, it was an unneccessary way to deal with things. Have you had your arm and fingers checked out? I think you deserve a rest to recover after that frightening ordeal - can you let someone know that you're having a day off?

I hope you feel better soon. You didn't deserve to be treated that way, and I don't think they shouldd be allowed to get away with it, just because they are the police.

s

xxx >:D<<'>

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Have you had your arm and fingers checked out? I think you deserve a rest to recover after that frightening ordeal - can you let someone know that you're having a day off?

Nope, not sure what to do - I think it's just bruised, although it looks like I have two elbow joints as I have two 'bumps' (instead of the one on the other arm, if that makes sense). As to a rest, no I'm up at 6am and off to a conference till Sunday :( Maybe I should try and get some sleep seeing the time.

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Sounds nasty- painkillers, rest your arm on a pillow to raise it, ice or frozen peas wrapped in a towel if it's swollen. If it's still painful in the morning, is there a nurse on campus who could take a look and advise you what to do next? Still think you should have a rest - could lead to more upset later if you are tired and not fully recovered -how will you be able to concentrate on the conference distressed and in discomfort?

s

xxx

ps it's hard to give advise like this, so easy to get it wrong, but it needs to be looked at by someone and then you can decide what next.

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Hi Mumble /All.

I am sorry to anyone if I appear unsympathetic.I do not intend to comment further on the actions of the emergency services.I am sure any complaint made will be investigated if Mumble decides to complain...which she is perfectly entitled to.

However there are a few facts worth bearing in mind.Firstly London is still in a high state of terror alert and so any potential terrorist risk will be taken seriously.It was obvious from the suicide bombings in London that people in Britain will now kill themselves in the process of attempting to kill others.

In other parts of the world people have already used individuals with a disabilty to carry out suicide bombings.These very uncomfortable very painful facts are now reality and need to be taken into account . :tearful::tearful:

Secondly deaths related to knives are a weekly occurence in London at the current time.Therefore police are very aware that there is the potential for an individual to draw a knife.Police and innocent teenagers have lost there lives to knife crime.

 

I may appear unsympathetic and wish to be very clear indeed that it is not and that I am extremely concerned about and aware of the issues.

I do however believe that posts on the Forum regarding what could be seen by extremely well qualified professionals as a potential suicide attempt is unhelpful.

I am not able to walk past central London bridges without suffering extreme anxiety at the prospect of seeing somone jump.

My family [husband/son] live with the impact my brothers death had on me over thirty years later.My parents died never having come to terms with my brothers death.

 

I do not pretend to be impartial for these reasons.

I also think it worth saying that I have personal ongoing experience of extreme mental distress .

I feel very strongly that individuals need appropriate assessment and support from a qualified professional.

The assessment of potential suicide risk is not a topic that is appropriate for individuals on an open Forum.

The police and emergency services in this case did I believe make an assessment of potetial suicide risk.

I am not saying anything not already stated earlier in pointing out that the fact that suicide has been considered recently means there is an increased risk.Karen.

Edited by Karen A

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Mumble >:D<<'>

 

I'm glad that your safe and sound, albeit abit shook up and bruised.

 

It must of been very distressing for you.

 

I can only wonder if the Police thought you were a real suicide risk and when you made a bid to run away, and they asumed you were trying to jump, or were going to jump once you were free of them. You must of been very distressed for a member of the public to call the Police. >:D<<'>

 

How many of us were filled with horror when we read about the mother with the autistic child who jumped off a bridge......and how many of have wished a member of the public had called the police and they had prevented them, even in a heavy handed manner.

 

Maybe you could consider a complaint if you felt the force used for excessive. Would the incident have been caught on CCTV to help with that complaint?

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Well I'm now bandaged and slung up with a bruised bone that they 'don't think' :unsure: is broken.

 

The assessment of potential suicide risk is not a topic that is appropriate for individuals on an open Forum.

 

I am not saying anything not already stated earlier in pointing out that the fact that suicide has been considered recently means there is an increased risk.

Karen - I am not going to lie, I am upset by what you have written. The facts: the police did not even know who I was so would not have known my history and therefore could not have considered me an increased risk. I was upset, but not actually that upset - the sensible paramedic even quizzed the member of public who had called. I became upset when firstly I thought I was being attacked and secondly I was thrown to the ground. As for appropriate topics, a)issues I've had previously have been ASD related and b)within this thread I was asking about ASD issues in relation to what happened. This forum has been a huge source of support (and friendship) to me and I really appreciate that. Knowing I'm not the only one facing the issues I do means an awful lot to me. >:D<<'> >:D<<'>

 

As for complaining, I've actually decided I'm going to write in the form of suggestions/education so hopefully someone else doesn't have to go through the same. :)

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I'm not qualified to comment on how the Met operate. But the policeman's comment that "in London we can't take any chances", suggests that terrorism rather than suicide, was in the forefront of their minds when they apprehended you. In London, the public are constantly warned to look out for people "acting suspiciously" - and that's obviously open to interpretation. Possibly, a call from a member of the public saying they have seen someone "behaving strangely", requires a full alert, instant response, and they don't have time to ask further questions to assess the situation. Such are the times we live in. :wacko:

 

Hope you're feeling better soon, Mumble.

 

K x

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You're quite possibly right Kathryn. :) I'm not blaming the police and I do understand. I'm just wondering if there's anyway this could have been prevented/lessened - I wear an ID bracelet and carry an autism aware card because I am so tactile defencive (and this stems from issues in addition to the ASD) that I will react badly if grabbed/restrained but I had no way of making them aware. I don't know if they had any other option and I'm certainly not sure that some generalised training is the answer (we've debated the issues with this elsewhere), but there were some characteristics they may have spotted - hands over ears for instance.

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Sometimes autistic people do attempt suicide, carry weapons or commit acts of terrorism. It happened recently in Exeter city centre. If there is a risk of loss of life, the police cannot afford to stop and wonder if the person might be autistic. There are definitely times when some awareness would be a good thing, but I don't think this would have been one of them.

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Hi mumble :) -

 

I think there is an element here you might be overlooking that you do need to consider: Whether you were conscious of it or not, something about your behaviour triggered this incident. Many thousands of people must cross that bridge on a daily basis, but presumably other people do not become concerned enough by their behaviour to contact the police, or the police interpret their behaviour in such a way that the take the actions you have described.

Please understand I'm not 'blaming' you in any way or suggesting you invited that response, but the factors must have been there for the public/police to have intervened in the way they did, and in those circumstances your own, and theirs and other people's wellbeing would have been the overriding consideration - the imperative would have been to act and ask questions later. In a situation where they could act in reasonable certainty of stopping you before anyone came to harm, dialogue/trying to talk you down could have made the situation more dangerous.

 

Hope that's helpful

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Mumble,

Sorry about your arm......if they don't 'think' it might be broken, then there's always the possibility that it is....has it had an x-ray...that's the only way to be completely certain.......

 

I read your first post, very, very carefully.

From what I understand- a member of the public called the police because they were concerned.

A wpc grabbed your arm.

You reacted.

what else followed happened because of your reaction.

 

Do you think that if the WPC had spoken to you, explained that a phone call had been made because a member of public was concerned that you would have reacted differently and the rest wouldn't have happened?

 

It's good that someone made the phone call- too many people just walk past without caring or doing anything or wanting to get involved.

 

I've been looking after patients for 20 years, that first approach is so important.

I always introduce myself before I do anything. I always explain what I am going to do. I never make patients jump. That includes the elderly, cancer patients, heart/stroke patients, children, orthopaedic patients, attempted suicides, psychiatric and aggressive patients. It makes such a difference to how patients react to me. Other nurses who go steaming in - make the situation worse.

 

Anyway, that was just my take on what happened.....

hope it doesn't make things worse.......I totally understand all the issues around terrorists...but think that that only occured to them when you reached for your bag.....before that I think they were concerned about a possible suicide.

 

s

xxx

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Mumble,

Sorry about your arm......if they don't 'think' it might be broken, then there's always the possibility that it is....has it had an x-ray...that's the only way to be completely certain.......

 

I read your first post, very, very carefully.

From what I understand- a member of the public called the police because they were concerned.

A wpc grabbed your arm.

You reacted.

what else followed happened because of your reaction.

 

Do you think that if the WPC had spoken to you, explained that a phone call had been made because a member of public was concerned that you would have reacted differently and the rest wouldn't have happened?

 

It's good that someone made the phone call- too many people just walk past without caring or doing anything or wanting to get involved.

 

I've been looking after patients for 20 years, that first approach is so important.

I always introduce myself before I do anything. I always explain what I am going to do. I never make patients jump. That includes the elderly, cancer patients, heart/stroke patients, children, orthopaedic patients, attempted suicides, psychiatric and aggressive patients. It makes such a difference to how patients react to me. Other nurses who go steaming in - make the situation worse.

 

Anyway, that was just my take on what happened.....

hope it doesn't make things worse.......I totally understand all the issues around terrorists...but think that that only occured to them when you reached for your bag.....before that I think they were concerned about a possible suicide.

 

s

xxx

 

I agree with what you say here. I do also think though that the police may have overreacted or at least made the situation worse by not getting the first approach quite right. Had the wpc spoken to you rather than touched you - she may have got the answer to why you were there and everyone would have been happy. Was it really necessary for her to have done that even if she thought you might be a jumper. They should be more aware of the possibility of asd. Although I too would probably have pulled away had someone grabbed me for no apparent reason to me at the time - even if it were a wpc. Hope you recover soon Mumble. Take care.

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The whole area of suicide/attempted suicide is enormously sensitive.

 

This is just my opinion and not a criticism of anyone, but please could we be extra careful in our choice of language, for example, referring to people as 'jumpers', or whether a particular bridge is a good place to jump and so on :(

 

For anyone personally affected by this subject or struggling with such difficulties within their family, these kinds of comments (although innocently meant) can be extremely upsetting.

 

Bid :(

Edited by bid

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Mumble,

Sorry about your arm......if they don't 'think' it might be broken, then there's always the possibility that it is....has it had an x-ray...that's the only way to be completely certain.......

 

I read your first post, very, very carefully.

From what I understand- a member of the public called the police because they were concerned.

A wpc grabbed your arm.

You reacted.

what else followed happened because of your reaction.

 

Do you think that if the WPC had spoken to you, explained that a phone call had been made because a member of public was concerned that you would have reacted differently and the rest wouldn't have happened?

 

It's good that someone made the phone call- too many people just walk past without caring or doing anything or wanting to get involved.

 

I've been looking after patients for 20 years, that first approach is so important.

I always introduce myself before I do anything. I always explain what I am going to do. I never make patients jump. That includes the elderly, cancer patients, heart/stroke patients, children, orthopaedic patients, attempted suicides, psychiatric and aggressive patients. It makes such a difference to how patients react to me. Other nurses who go steaming in - make the situation worse.

 

Anyway, that was just my take on what happened.....

hope it doesn't make things worse.......I totally understand all the issues around terrorists...but think that that only occured to them when you reached for your bag.....before that I think they were concerned about a possible suicide.

 

s

xxx

 

Hi sally, i agree with all of that, but it is all very situation specific. In a situation where the police (or any other service) believe there is a clear danger to themselves or others and the situation is 'open' to a degree that suggests the potential for escalation they have to take the safest option. Sometimes 'steaming in' may be the appropriate solution, because anything less actually heightens the potential for serious consequences. Softly softly may catchee monkey, but it's a lousy form of defence from a charging rhino. Not suggesting you're a charging rhino, mumble, or a monkey, but I think the police probably responded in the way they felt most appropriate based on how they perceived the situation at the time, and it's impossible to guess how that might have been from where they were standing...

 

:D

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