Jump to content
JsMum

What would you do?

Recommended Posts

We are due to SENDIST appeal in the middle of September to appeal for a special school,

 

LEA want J to attend a mainstream Secondary school from the beginning of september until the d day of tribunal,

 

I fear that we will be in the same situation as the last term, J becoming very challenging and aggressive and increased anxiety in a mainstream setting, though this time it will have over 700 children and changes every hour, due to different classrooms, subjects and teachers.

 

I have requested alternative provisions but the LEA are unwilling as we are going to tribunal,

 

What would you do, I have no alternative but to send him, knowing it isnt meeting his SEN, Camhs and GP said he will be fine as he has a TA full time,

 

What if its the actual enviroment that is the problem?

 

JsMum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi JSmum,

 

We are in a similar situation, our appeal is the 2nd week in september for a special placement. The difference is that our daughter has refused to go to school since Easter so isn't expected in at the beginning.

 

Where ours gets strange is that, we have been told that as the LEA want our daughter back in the school she is refusing to go to, and have named that school in her statemnt and in the appeal case statement, if we are found against, and the panel says she must go back to main stream, it will be my respinsibilty apparently to get her back in or i could be prosecuted!!!! And I must admit that is definately time in prison i would be happy to do if it protected her from the stress she was suffering until she left.

 

When our daughter first stopped going to school her paediatrician had to sign her off sick so we weren't reported for her non attendance. But if you go down this route and are found against, then it could make things much harder for JS to go back to school. Its a catch 22, we are forced to 'harm' our kids by forcing them into a school that is totally inappropriate, and if we don't do that, then we can be punished, and meanwhile nothing gets solved for the children,.

 

Sorry i haven't really given any advice. But good luck with your appeal.. i hope your preperation is going well... do you have representation or legal help? feel free to PM me if yu want to compare notes..... what date is your appeal?

 

Anne x

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi J's mum I really don't know what to advise you. I think if you think it will be detrimental to your son's health then I wouldn't be prepared to send him, however if you tried it and the provision failed i.e. school refusal then it would show that the provison isn't right so could make your argument for a special school stronger. However on the other side the LA could say that it is meting his needs, put everything in place immediatly for it to meet his needs so that when you go to tribunal they say things are working.

 

This is the problem I am at now, son is in special school and they have said they are meeting his needs, his behaviour in some areas has improved but the provision is still not working 100% as some days he still refuses to attend and other days is excluded, however school awarded him the most improved child for last term. I know that when I go back to SENDIST this will be part of their evidence to say they are meeting his needs.

 

If I knew my son was going to attend school daily and behaviour improve I would stop my fight as he is at last enjoying school most days but some of the behaviour hasn't changed at all and he's at times still not getting the therpay he needs.

 

It's so difficult to know what to do, on the days my son refuses to attend school my sol has advised me not to take him in as it's the LA responsibility because when we went to the first tribunal the LA said with other agencies they would have him attending school etc etc but I still find it my responsibility to take him in and get all the backlash myself because I know that if that's the school he has to attend then it will lay with me to get him there and back (have to add though my LA have not been one bit bothered by his refusal to attend some days and just see it as one of those things). I think what ever you do make sure you keep a diary of everything and ask the school to do the same.

 

The head of my son's school has said so many times to me I do not pick the children that come here, we are forced to have them, this spells it out to me that schools are forced by LA's to have children that even they know sometimes they just can't meet the needs, it also makes you wonder how much other underhand stuff goes on behind the scene.

 

I wish you luck with whatever you decide as I know it's not an easy job >:D<<'> >:D<<'>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi JsMum

 

Could you get the dr to sign him off school until after the apeal due to the stress and anxiety it would cause him to go?

 

Good Luck with everything

 

Hpe you find a way

 

Zosmum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Anne,

 

Thankyou for sharing with me your situation too, in July 07 and September 07 J was signed off school with a GP sick note and the LEA wouldnt even put in place anything at all, having J 24-7 was a tall order and I worked with Js school and we arranged a part time table, which went well in short periods until his anxieties raised, then it was back to challenging behaviour and aggression with any attempts to get him to school, he has been on a part time table ever since simply because that is his statement hours, and he requires full time attention, In may this year this was increased to full time and we struggled even more to get J in, I had to use a firemans lift Just to get him to sit his second science test.

 

It became really dangerous to use any physical force and the GP wrote a letter to this effect and all forced school attendances where stopped, we saw a termpary reduction in anxiety and things improved for a couple of weeks, he then broke his arm, we moved house and then since then J became really challegning with attempts to get him to school, he hasnt attended since June 08 and part time table which has resulted in a 29 day school attendance out of a year.

 

In September 2008 he is in a larger building, more subjects, hundreds of children, and aparently a high percentage of ADHD and Aspergers of which some are bullied.

 

Its horrible to think that the LEA are forcing J into this situation again when we have battled with the same issues for over a year in a safe and secure primary school, what makes them think that J will cope in this situation.

 

Whats really hard now is that J is now backtracking a bit on the residential school as he says he just cant sleep away from home and he will miss me, there is absaloutly nothing here that he could attend daily, except one school that has a very minimal number of children and he would there for spend large amounts of time on his own, and not interacting with other children, the residentail specaialsit school has over 50 boys, and with similair difficulties and diagnosis.

 

Its getting really stressful, I have come to the dicision to keep him at home as I do feel it would be detrimental to his health, but as its not covered by a sick note Im worried I will be prosicuted, but I cant send J to a school he can not cope in, but the thought of prison does scare me, and the consequences of that because J would almost likely end up in LAC because I am his only parent.

 

It really is a very stressful time.

 

JsMuM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi JsMum

 

Could you get the dr to sign him off school until after the apeal due to the stress and anxiety it would cause him to go?

 

Good Luck with everything

 

Hpe you find a way

 

Zosmum

 

 

I have been to both his Psychiatrist and Gp,

 

The GP said what is ADHD? A new GP as we have moved area, well there you have it, he wont sign him off as the LEA have been in contact with him and have reasured the GP that J has full time support and a statement.

 

The psychiatrist again feels happy that J has full time statment, though this made no difference in May 08 and J hasnt attended school to access his statement throw anxiety and challenging behaviour.

 

I can not get him signed off school.

 

JsMum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi JsMum

 

So sorry to hear that. Maybe if you phone the school on the first day of term saying J won't be in as he is ill. If they wan to know the nature of the illness, tell them he is suffering from stress, anxiety and depression. If he is recorded on the school records as being off due to illnes I don't think that you will get into trouble with the EWO

 

Better just check that it's ok or not from someone who maybe more in the know about thi

 

Good Luck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi SM2

 

J has virtually school refused for the last 3 years, though the last year the LEA said I agreed to Part time flexi schooling, which I did because they wouldnt offer anything else, aparently if they state it as school refusal it is a unauthorised absence, so I agreed to the flexi schooling, it was incredibally hard and time consuming and I would prefer for him to be in a school, the planning and organising was emense as it had to be practical and fun, or J wouldnt of co operated, writing and reading excersices he requires too much specialist help, he becomes frustrated and angry to the point I am at risk of his hurting me, home education is absalout no, I would crack up, I already up until 2am with his sleeping difficulties and then add on his challenging behaviour during the day, add on education at home I think I would be a blubbering wreck, also if schools make it so dismal for children with SEN knowing parents just home educate them it doesnt get the schools to change acordingly, 90 percent of HE kids have a SEN, its a major factor why parents home educated, but the more that leave for them reasons the less schools will do to help our children, who I feel need it the most.

 

He needs a school, but not run like one, and one that is specialist in his diagnosis, there in another planet I think.

 

JsMum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Soz JsMum

 

Don't know what else to suggest

 

Know these won't really help but sending hugs

>:D<<'> >:D<<'> >:D<<'> >:D<<'> >:D<<'> >:D<<'> >:D<<'>

 

Sounds very much like Z and always being stuck between a rock and a hard place

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

I was in a simlar(ish) situation with Bill when he started secondary. He'd been turned down for a statement and out of school for the last term of primary. I took advice and decided to send him to the secondary school with full time 1-1 in place and on a part-time time-table. Things seemed ok the first few weeks then started to go awry culminating in him being signed off by the camhs consultant in the March. He was out of school for a year (during which time he got a statement) until we went to tribunal and won funding for him at an AS specific special school.

 

I got the distinct impression that the panel at the tribunal don't like 'what ifs' or any unknowns.

 

I think you need to send him to school and let it go wrong if it's going to go wrong, which will put you in a much stronger position at tribunal.

 

Good luck.

 

Flora

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I got the distinct impression that the panel at the tribunal don't like 'what ifs' or any unknowns.

 

This is not in our case, It already known how Anxious and challenging J is in mainstream setting, I understand what your saying about having it failed and essence it has in primary school, the LEA want us to try again in a mainstream secondary school.

 

I can not let Js mental health continue to suffer just so we have proof in a secondary school.

 

JsMum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This is not in our case, It already known how Anxious and challenging J is in mainstream setting, I understand what your saying about having it failed and essence it has in primary school, the LEA want us to try again in a mainstream secondary school.

 

I can not let Js mental health continue to suffer just so we have proof in a secondary school.

 

JsMum

mattis mental health suffered a lot throughout his school time too ..we alaways felt that being in a school setting of less than 30 children would be best for him ..which is what he as now still not 100 % sure if we have done the right thing in sending him were he is but his anxiaties are a lot less now....problem is now is he wants to take exams like his twin as he says he as a rite to .....do what you think is best for him now

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I can not let Js mental health continue to suffer just so we have proof in a secondary school.

 

JsMum

 

Jsmum, I felt exactly the same as that when Bill went to secondary school. However, that means nothing to the panel. They may be sympathetic, but they have to stick to the COP. In their quest to leave no stone unturned, they may ask the question 'how do you know it wouldn't work unless you tried?'. It may well be that they are content with the amount of evidence you have from primary school; I was only pointing out that the panel, or at least the one I had, really do explore every single avenue, and if there are unanswered questions they will adjourn until those questions can be answered.

 

It's horrible, but you do often have to allow something to fail before you can prove that it isn't right.

 

Flora

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jsmum, I felt exactly the same as that when Bill went to secondary school. However, that means nothing to the panel. They may be sympathetic, but they have to stick to the COP. In their quest to leave no stone unturned, they may ask the question 'how do you know it wouldn't work unless you tried?'. It may well be that they are content with the amount of evidence you have from primary school; I was only pointing out that the panel, or at least the one I had, really do explore every single avenue, and if there are unanswered questions they will adjourn until those questions can be answered.

 

It's horrible, but you do often have to allow something to fail before you can prove that it isn't right.

 

Flora

 

Hi Flora, I really apriciate and value your opinion and thankyou for sharing this with me, but the thing is since Ive told J he has to go to Mainstream setting his anxiety has shot up again, he isnt eating as much, he is having nightmares, his behaviour is moody, uncoperative and attention seeking all day.

 

I also have nothing at all sorted out with how we intergrate J back into mainstream setting, he doesnt know any of Teachers, doesnt know or understand the structure of the school, and Personally putting him under stress throw changing classrooms, changing teachers, and changing students throw been in different sets of abililty will be disabilitating J, I just know he wont cope with it, he couldnt even cope a full day in a room he was in all day at primary school.

 

I personally cant see him even stepping one foot in the place on the 2nd of September just as I couldnt get him to stay at a primary school in July 2008 and due to his behaviour increasing in aggression he was allowed to leave early as attempts to get J to school was increasingly leading to him harming others or himself.

 

I have really really really thought about this predicament loads, and I know what you are suggesting it the right thing to do to get the proof I am just worried that while trying to get the proof may lead J to come to serious harm.

 

I may still try to get J to school, but how, and what time scale I have I still dont know, there has been no transition plan and J knows nothing of the school, the school wasnt even a choice of ours, it was automatically placed on, we didnt even consider this school in the first place but its on Part 4 of his statement so he has to go.

 

We may well still try him in this school, but I did my absalout best to get J into mainstream Primary school and I feel this has damaged him psychologically, the long term effects of doing again with secondary may be a lot more severe because of the complexities a mainstream school has on a child like J.

 

I will really consider again sending him, but my heart will be ripped into shreds, I wont be able to say anything to console him, like Its ok darling its a nice school, you will be safe, because it isnt. and it wont meet his SEN needs Hence the whole reason were going to SENDIST but not for another fourteen days and that could damage J emensly, that isnt even including the stress I will be under.

 

JsMum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I personally cant see him even stepping one foot in the place on the 2nd of September

 

Hi Jsmum, this is the bit I'm latching on to because it's so important.

 

One week before our tribunal my LEA offered a local special school (as oppose to the mainstream school they had previously offered).... I took bill to visit it once and he couldn't last more than 2 minutes inside the building. His dad took him to visit a second time and he actually vomited. If it hadn't been for these two visits the panel would have very likely suggested we go away and try him at this school (even though it offered no more than the primary school he'd left a while previously which had failed very clearly).

 

I'm not trying to force you to force J into a horrible situation, I just want to illustrate to you while you know it will fail, they may not accept this without absolute evidence.

 

It's horrible, criminal even, what our kids sometimes have to endure in order to prove a case :(>:D<<'>

 

Flo' XX

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I wouldn't play games with my child's mental health or risk abusing his trust in you; in your shoes (and I have been in similar situations with my daughter with ignorant EWO's breathing down my neck) I would keep my child off and away from somewhere that could cause them damage as it is just setting them up to fail. You are doing all that you can for him. Good luck whatever you decide.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Personally I wouldn't play games with my child's mental health or risk abusing his trust in you;

 

Hiya wassup,

 

Not sure what you mean by this. I sent my son to his last secondary school because I knew at that time that without giving it a chance there was no way I could prove it would fail, even though I could hazzard an educated guess that it would, I couldn't prove it (and there was always the possiblity I might have been wrong). Are you implying that by doing so I abused his trust or played games with his mental health? If that's not what you're saying then I stand corrected but that's how it read from where I'm sitting.

 

As parents we can guess what might or might not work for our kids, but we can never be sure until we've/they've tried it. As it happens my educated guess was right, and my son was eventually taken out of his secondary school and is now at an AS specific special school. I doubt we would have won at tribunal if I'd refused to even give the local secondary school a try though because my proof was in what actually happened not what I thought might happen. The difference between 'actually' and 'might' is huge to the panel at tribunal when they are making a decision that could cost the LEA hundreds of thousands a year, as was the case with the school they awarded for my son.

 

If we as parents are going to close our minds to trying things with only an outside chance of working, or trying anything new, how on earth can our kids ever gain the confidence to try things for themselves? We teach by example, and yes sometimes just saying 'no' is the right message to give, but other times something has to fail before you give up, otherwise they'd spend their life sidestepping everything that takes them outside their comfort zone.

 

Flora

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nothing meant just my view from my experiences, I respect each and every parents own view of what they think is right for their child and am not criticizing just giving my opinion as asked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know, Js Mum. I think I'm right in thinking that this is an ASD-specific school that you're appealing for, and the problem is that you don't have an ASD dx. Add to that the (probably wrong) suggestions of attachment disorder and I think that the Tribunal is going to be tricky to win if you look like you're not even giving mainstream a chance.

 

If you lose the Tribunal, he'll have to go to state school. Didn't they offer you a state school place at the local special school? I think it would be worth trying to get him and interim place there while you wiat for Tribunal rather than the local mainstream. They will be used to children with SEN at the special school.

 

I know that J has lots of issues. My J is the same. But I think that Flora is right in two ways A) that the Tribunal will be more winnable if you show that you have tried - not just to show that it will fail - it might succeed, but to show that you're not an overprotective mother and that B ) we have to let our kids go beyond their comfort zones.

 

At the moment, J knows that he can always come home or not go to school if he kicks off enough. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but he's learnt that kicking off will make you give in. You, rightly, want to protect him from becoming anxious, but how will he move on if he just gets to stay at home in his nice comfy bubble?

 

He HAS to go back to school at some point. If he doesn't want to go to residential, I see no option but to move or to try the local special school. Either way, he must go back to school in September and he must not know what the Tribunal is about. You can't cloud his view of what might be his permanent school. You might lose (I hope you don't) and you have to proceed on the basis that you might, for J's sake, and so prepare him for the back up plan as well as for the best case scenario.

 

I think it will be very difficult for you to win the Tribunal without a dx and without your co-operation to at least try J in school in September. With no dx, the panel might decide that his symptoms are close enough to ASD to be best met in your chosen school BUT if you won't send him to school, the LEA may muddy the waters by blaming you for his problems (have seen it happen) and that would be awful.

 

Send him. Whichever school he goes to will be difficult, but he HAS to get used to going to school again.

 

Good luck. x

Edited by teachermum1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Late to this thread, but here are some thoughts...

 

First of all, if you keep J out of school without a formal letter from his consultant or GP declaring he is unfit for school on medical grounds the LEA can say that they have no obligation to educate him as you are taking responsibility for his education. This was made extremely clear to me when my DS was out of school for 6 months.

 

You say there's nothing in place for his transition to secondary school. If he is going to have a full-time 1:1 and a full Statement, you need to contact the LEA and school to see what can be organised, although it is very late now. There is still time to put together an 'orientation pack' for J, with pictures of the school, his tutor room, his 1:1, etc. Staff will be in and out of school for the last two weeks of the holiday, so hopefully you should be able to get some support in this. If none is forthcoming, the fact that you have actively pursued it without success can be used as further evidence in your Tribunal case.

 

I do think Flora is right about needing to prove that things haven't worked. We didn't have to go to Tribunal for my DS' residesi AS special school, but there was a paper trail of us trying a reduced attendence at his mainstream school, work with teachers via the internet, LEA home tutors.

 

I really do know how awful it is, but you need to appear to be 'reasonable' and co-operative with the LEA, as well as being your child's advocate...a difficult balance to find I remember only too well :(>:D<<'>

 

Good luck >:D<<'>

 

Bid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nothing meant just my view from my experiences, I respect each and every parents own view of what they think is right for their child and am not criticizing just giving my opinion as asked.

 

 

Hiya wassaup,

 

That's ok, a healthy debate/exchange of views is all good.

 

I was just wanting to highlight the importance of having solid proof as oppose to 'opinion'. A very important distinction when it comes to tribunal.

 

Having just recently been through the tribunal process with my son, who was out of school for over a year, I am only too aware of how much a parent's 'opinion' is valued as 'evidence'... which without professional back up or documented proof, is not a lot!

 

Flora :D

Edited by Flora

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will also say that it's not your responsibility to make sure that he stays in school once you've dropped him off.

 

If he becomes challenging and anxious, the school and he need to develop strategies to deal with this. My J tries to run out of school and often has to be restrained to keep him in. It then takes a while for him to 'come down', but then he goes and rejoins the class. His challenging behaviour comes in the form of hurling furniture, biting, spitting, scratching, kicking, hitting etc. and this is in a mainstream school. But there has never been any suggestion that I should go and collect him when he kicks off. The school know that this is something that J does so regularly that they have got to deal with it. Obviously it is sad that both our Js have times of not being able to cope with the classroom environment, but it's up to the school to find a way of reducing that anxiety - small group or 1:1 teaching, perhaps, in a separate room in times of anxiety - they both have full time 1:1 support after all.

 

I also think that if J is so unable to separate from you to even try going to school, the panel will find it hard to believe that he can cope with going away to a residential school. That will surely be an even bigger wrench for him in their eyes.

 

I think that the previous post about trying to set up a transition plan now is good. See what they say about HOW they will cope when J kicks off. It's not up to you to stay there at school on call all day!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Having just recently been through the tribunal process with my son, who was out of school for over a year, I am only too aware of how much a parent's 'opinion' is valued as 'evidence'... which without professional back up or documented proof, is not a lot!

 

So very true!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just my tuppence worth, based on our own experiences only of course. With my girl, at her last mainstream school she did not cope well. She began self harming and became selective mute. It was horrible to see. The school insisted she was doing fine, but getting reports that she got lost and was found wandering round by the swimming pool did not fill me with confidence. I went up the school early with witnesses so I could see afternoon playtime. She was left to her own devices all the time and spent her time picking things up from the floor or spinning in circles. Then it was time to go in, and there was never any attempts from staff to interact with her or encourage her. Quite often she would be the last child returning to class with no supervision. It was always hard to see her walking across the field and playground alone, she could have easily wandered off or be taken. She was in yr 1 at the time. The school were telling me how wonderful she was getting on socially, but it was never anything I witnessed, and at the time, even the consultant commented on how detatched she had become.

 

With my son, he was very anxious. He started soiling himself every day, and started exhibiting challenging behavior at home with regards anything to do with school. He was petrified of being late, he threw his books and kicked off daily at the gate and would never do homework without a battle. This is all the short version of what happened there. It was horrible.

 

I was soooooooo reluctant to try another mainstream. My daughter is very complex as well. She often paddies and says she does not want to go to school, but she goes, and now in a different school with more help, she is doing really well. My son has improved so much in his "new" school. His anxiety is more or less gone now, certainly nothing like it was. This last year I saw both of them blossoming. My son stared in a production of Oliver, both of them have made friends and are thriving. I HONESTLY did not think for one second this could happen.

 

I have learnt now that despite the anxiety, meltdowns or aggression, I don't hold them back or pre empt what I think or how I think they may react or fear how they will react or protect them from expressing emotions. My girls anxiety was so high at one point we were prisoners in our own home. Worse than that she wasn't experiencing life or pushing her own boundries. Now we try everything, and I try not to think of consequences because my children have surprised me so much. If they get anxious or afraid we deal with it there and then, but we will keep going back and trying things that have made them anxious because there are times they can manage it.

 

I don't really know what I am trying to say. I think I am trying to say that, as parents it is our job to protect them, and of course we worry so much about things going wrong or what could happen. I think if our children stand any chance of becoming sucessful adults, then they need to try things and live different experiences. They need to understand that if things don't work out, actually it's ok because life is like that all the time. It is only through experiencing these extremes of emotion they learn eventually some control or their own limitations.

 

I think Flora makes some good points. A tribunal can only ever look at evidence. I have heard that evidence even 6 months old can be classed as out of date. I think you may have to try this school and cooperate with the LEA, because a friend of mine, the LEA tried to say it was the parent who was unwilling and if they had been given the chance, the placement might have worked. Without recent evidence of what has been tried, or what recent difficulties have been experienced, and if the LEA have a plan to integrate J, and if their own professional reports agree, I fear (geniune concern) that you might lose, and to be honest, what I have seen in the support group with parents, is the odds do seem stacked against the parents. The LEA don't seem to have to prove much, and cases can even be lost for the sake of a few hundred pounds difference funding a child to attend a special school as opposed to a mainstream. The system is geared towards inclusion in mainstream where ever possible, and it is WRONG that children have to get to breakdown point before anything else is considered. The tribunal is supposed to be a fair and impartial way or sorting out decisions, but if you ask me, it is more like the ducking stool for parents. So in order to attempt to get the provision that you feel is right, you have to jump through all the hoops, cooperate as much as possible and get that evidence. Just a thought, because I have no idea, but have you considered that J may equally refuse to attend a specialist placement?

 

I really DO wish you all the luck in the world. I have known you for a long time now, and I know you always do your best for J. None of this is in any way a slur on your parenting at all. I do sincerely hope that you get the right decision. >:D<<'>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have heard that evidence even 6 months old can be classed as out of date

 

Darky this is absolutely true. When I went to tribunal back in Febuary the panel chatted to Bill prior to the hearing starting. They made it quite clear that they were only interested in what he is like now not what he had been like when he was last in school almost a year before.

 

It was very fortunate that I'd always cooperated with the LEA and we had a very long paper trail illustrating so; the panel were very aware of that and as such more or less told one of my LEA's witnessess that he'd had enough opportunity to work with Bill in the past and they could see nothing to suggest that he wouldn't make as much a mess of it in the future as he had previously.

 

One thing my solicitor told me months before the hearing was 'give them enough rope and they will hang themselves'.... this proved to be so true, which is why I would urge Jsmum to go along with the LEA right up to the day of the tribunal, not despite the fact she believes the placement will fail, but because of it

 

Flora

Edited by Flora

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm right in thinking that this is an ASD-specific school that you're appealing for, and the problem is that you don't have an ASD dx. Add to that the (probably wrong) suggestions of attachment disorder and I think that the Tribunal is going to be tricky to win if you look like you're not even giving mainstream a chance.

 

Hi Teacher mum 1 The school is a spersific school and the criteria matches Js statement Now, it is a Specialist school that meets the needs of children with Average to high Cognitive Ability but have ADHD/ODD, Symptoms/ features/DX of an ASD,AS, Spersific Learning Difficulties, Dyslexia, Dyspraxia, Speech and language Delay, Socail and Communication Difficulties, Attatchment Disorder and are experienced and have knowledge in PDA so will meet Js needs exceedingly, J doesnt need the DX of ASD to get into this school.

 

J has been DX as having Social and communication Difficulties/Disorder, and the Socail communications panel have DX him as having Features of Autism Spectrum Disorder, and he is to have the same support as a child who has a full DX of Autism, as he has done throw out the year of his IEP of which is why Autism was been investigated.

 

The panel did not DX J with Attatchment Disorder it was been investigated but proved to be not the case for Js difficulties, he does not have Attatchment Disorder, he has ASD with severe comorbids.

 

I have defo tried the mainstream setting, every morning and every afternoon, never giving in, the stress was unbearable, the exhaustion nearly killed me, but I wanted J in school but it didnt work, this was may, june and july of which he already had a full time 1-1 support.

 

 

J knows that he can always come home or not go to school if he kicks off enough. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but he's learnt that kicking off will make you give in.

 

I was advised by the GP and the HT not to force J physically as he had Injured me, he is nearly the same size as me and in a rage he has exceptional stregnth, so to reduce the risk of been hurt or J becoming injured throw been restrained, I was told not to use any force, of which I didnt but it was impossible to get him to school or on occasions he did get to school he was then returned home because his behaviour became a concern it was decided by the school and not me,

 

believe me I have taken J to school kicking and screaming, but if he is a danger to himself or others then he has no option but to return/remain home.

 

J doesnt just display his stress and anxiety in kicking off, it starts days and weeks before, he cant sleep, has nightmares, doesnt eat, gets agitated that it effects his free time, rage outburts, and generally just difficult to manage, it effects his evenings, and weekends too, it is very distressing.

 

I also think that if J is so unable to separate from you to even try going to school, the panel will find it hard to believe that he can cope with going away to a residential school. That will surely be an even bigger wrench for him in their eyes.

 

I understand what your saying here, it is so deverstating to even contenplate a residential school, and I know we will both find it really hard, but if we keep to mainstream school then I am worried it wont be long like in Febauary were I cant cope and he requires CARE, that will be a much bigger wrench.

 

I know that the specialist school has a lot of experience and trained knowledge of how to manage children who are reluctant to stay at a residential school so I am reasured that if it goes in Js favour for a residential school he will be well cared for and supported as I will be too, he has come around the idea of residentail school again, though it will be very difficult to deal with.

 

 

I will also say that it's not your responsibility to make sure that he stays in school once you've dropped him off.

 

This is one of the valid reasons J may not be attending school on Tuesday because if J was to abscond secondary school and he became without adult supervision he would be at considerable risk, he is too vunrable to rome the streets, he becomes disorentated and has a no road sence whats so ever, he would be at massive risk if he were to leave the premisis, I have been told already if J leaves the premisis they just inform the parent and its classed as Truency and what if I cant find him and he gets lost, or come to harm. it is enough for me right now to think No Way, its just too dangerous.

 

 

I still have not come to a final decision to what I am doing,

 

I have a letter prepared of all the reasons J is remaining at home until the tribunal, and I am still in two minds to send him on Tuesday but nothing at all has been set up, I will ring on Monday to see what arrangements have been made,

 

At the moment I am thinking of Js mental health of which has deteriated since he understands he has to go to school on Tuesday, I have written again to his Psychiatrist as I feel they are ignoring vital warning signs of J mental health and if anything serious happens then I want it known that I expressed my concerns over Js mental health and school issues.

 

Its going to be a really rocky stressful month, I have been preparing for SENDIST on top of this issue too, its soo stressful, lets see what happens on Monday and I think the saying take one day at a time is going to be something we are going to do practically every day and I will let you know what happens on Tuesday.

 

We now have the venue and the time of the Tribunal, just a couple of weeks to go!

 

 

Thankyou for your support and advice.

 

JsMum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi J's mum, you are in a very difficlut situation and I really don't know what I would do, as you know before my tribunal was looming I chose not to try the school the Local Authority were suggesting for my son, it was an EBD school and I lost my case and he had to go there.

 

I have heard from one professional in particular who has said to me that parents have completly refused to send their child to a school which they feel can't meet their child's needs and this is what has won them places in special schools, but they have had to proove why it is not the right enviroment and I have also heard it from other professionals who say that tribunals are only happy when everything has been tried and failed.

 

My son will also still at times refuse to attend school and school will not use physical force to get him inside and it is very hard to manage.

 

I just wanted to send you a hug >:D<<'>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its only natural for parents to protect children, but sometimes our protection can become overprotective and hence is not for the benefit of our children. (Sometimes this is for our benefit of a way of coping). This is especially true in children refusing to go to school.

 

In the past I have had to stay with my child in the school( part time placement) as it was the only way to get him into school. Also all the difficult things such as meltdowns at school, school exclusion etc have all been documented.

 

I am afraid going to tribunal means you need all the information documented and evidence of things tried and failed or things tried and have been successful.

 

If we did not go through all the difficult things than we would not of been successful in our tribunal and statement and our child would not be happy or progressing well. He is now a happy confident child.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a tough time for you, J's mum, thinking of you and sending you >:D<<'> >:D<<'>

 

Hope next week goes OK, whatever you decide to do.

 

K x

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Coming to this very late so apologies.

 

My friend completely refused to send her son to the school that the LA has named on her son?s statement until she had been to tribunal. You do not have to prove that you have tried in some cases this can actually work against you - sorry if that goes against the flow. IPSEA supported my friend and supported her decision not to send her son to the LA named school. Like you she had lived a nightmare and had for a time home educated. She won her tribunal and her son is now settled in his new school and doing very well - he is a changed child. I can not of course say that you will win your tribunal no one can but I do know that you do not have to show that you have tried to appease an LA.

 

Cat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cat, it's true you don't have to show that you have 'appeased' a LEA in order to win a tribunal. However you do have to be able to prove that every local resource has been explored (and failed or proven to be unsuitable) before they will name an independent school (which I think jsmum is asking for). The panel will also look for evidence that you have cooperated with what's been on offer.

 

It may well be that Jsmum has enough evidence from last term for the panel to order the LEA to at least offer a local alternative. On the other hand, if there are unanswered questions and/or un-tapped resources within the present situation (ie a higher level of support in mainstream etc) then it's possible that the panel may go with the LEA's choice or order an adjournment while the alternatives are thoroughly investigated. However, if jsmum can prove that she can't even get him through the door and/or if he does get through the door that he is absconding then at least she's covered some of the un-answered questions. But without even paying lip service to taking him to that school (even if it's just a case of trying to get him to leave the house and ringing the school to let them hear the results of that!) then there is a risk of adjournment or the LEA winning on a technicality.

 

I'm not condoning this at all mind.... I know as well as anybody how far the LEA are willing to push a child to the limits before they even agree there's a problem in the first place! But I also know how pedantic the tribunal panels are. They have to make all their decisions based on the COP and they really do leave no stone unturned, especially when they are potentially making a decision that could cost the LEA over �100,000 a year if they decide in the parent's favour.

 

Flora

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cat, it's true you don't have to show that you have 'appeased' a LEA in order to win a tribunal. However you do have to be able to prove that every local resource has been explored (and failed or proven to be unsuitable) before they will name an independent school (which I think jsmum is asking for). The panel will also look for evidence that you have cooperated with what's been on offer.

 

My friend did not do this. The school that her son was attending closed and the school that the LA wanted to send him to was brand new but my friend did not feel that it was going to meet her sons needs. She was more than happy with his old school because it had a language unit our LA have closed all of their Language Units but the new school did have SALT's attached. She refused to let him start at the school and home educated him for 10 months leading up to the tribunal she also refused the LA access to her son during this time. And she still won her case. She got her judgement within a week which is un-heard of where we live. Her son was given a place at an independant school out of our area.

 

Cat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cat, she must have had compelling evidence to prove that the new school couldn't meet her child's needs. Perhaps there were features of the new school that were not compatable with her child's SEN, or they were lacking in something.

 

I'm not saying that if Jsmum doesn't try this school that she won't or can't win; I'm just saying that without evidence of some sort that it will make it difficult for the panel to say it isn't suitable. Even her child refusing to put the uniform on and refusing to leave the house on Tuesday morning will be evidence; after all in order for a placement to succeed you have to be able to get the child through the door of the school. This was one of the things I won my tribunal on; the LEA came up last minute with a local special school, I took Bill to see it and he walked out after 15 minutes and the HT reported that she was very concerned at his reaction. The second time he visited with his dad and he refused to even go in the school. The HT phoned me when they'd left and said that she would not be a great witness for the LEA because she didn't think the placement would work if Bill couldn't tollerate the building (this was the day before the hearing and she was one of the LEA's witnesses). This was crucial evidence for us winning the tribunal, but without the visits there with Bill we wouldn't have had this evidence.

 

Flora

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't help with the question of tribunals as we didn't have to go to SENDIST to get a residential special school (independent, out of county).

 

But I do know for a fact that to get an out of county/independent placement the parent has to show that absolutely nothing within county will meet the child's special educational needs as set out in their Statement.

 

It doesn't matter what the out of county/independent school can offer your child...the LEA/Tribunal is not interested in this. The only thing they are interested in is whether any LEA in county provision can meet the child's needs. Only if nothing in county can meet the child's needs will they then look at an out of county/independent school.

 

This is what the parent has to prove: that nothing the LEA can offer in county will meet the child's needs as set out in their Statement.

 

Good luck, JM >:D<<'>

 

Bid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have made a decision that I feel is the right decisions for me and J, as I have failed to access a sick note and the LEA are unwilling to provide alternative Provision I have no real choice but to send J on Tuesday, I have bought his Uniforms and equiptment and ready for Tuesday.

 

I want to give it one last try, and if J doesnt cope with secondary school it will go towards evidence for Tribunal.

 

Already J has become very stressed and anxious and he is already refusing to go on Tuesday, he was very challenging when buying his uniform and he is very confused to what is happening, I feel I am setting him to fail, and the confusing will increase if SENDIST agree J needs a specailist setting and again J will have yet another change.

 

I want to ensure on the day of Tribunal I have exhausted every avenue of support and really make sure J can not learn in a mainstream setting.

 

I will stop instantly if J comes to any harm or destress and I am not using any physical force as this has led in the past harm to myself and even J when he has placed himself in danger trying to escape.

 

I feel totally demoralised in this process, its heart breaking to place my son in a school I know can not meet his needs and where he is not safe, why should it have to go to these lengths and have little hearts in peices.

 

Shame on the Education system. total disgrace.

 

I will let you know how things go, we have everything ready on this side, I wounder if school do? I have no choice but to try and send J on Tuesday.

 

I have written letter expressing my concerns and fears about J been in Mainstream Setting again to the SEN department and I have also written to the HT to express again my concerns.

 

 

Bid to answer your question about countys, there is nothing whats so ever here in this county that can meet Js spersific needs, they have offered totally inapropriate schools including a moderate learning special school.

 

There is nothing here in this county or the next county or the next, we are having to look at the heart of England to get the right specialist placement for Js SENs.

 

 

 

JsMum

Edited by JsMum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi JsMum

 

You ahve brought a tear to my eye. :tearful:

This must have been such a difficult decision.

I hope you and J get through this without too much stress and stuff

 

Good Luck with everything

>:D<<'> >:D<<'> >:D<<'> >:D<<'>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good luck, J's mum. A difficult decision, but as others have said, think of it as an evidence gathering process. Keep a diary of everything that happens.

 

>:D<<'>

 

K x

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good luck, feel so sorry for you. thats when it all went wrong for mine, starting secondary school. H`es now at EBD school and attends and was coping well by the end of the summer term, but it is not the best place for him, I too have been looking at residential, but how often would they get home if they were soo far away? Have seen one specifically for boys with ADHD/ASD, with challanging behaviour, Thats mine to a tee :tearful: I actually know another boy who goes, but its 3 hrs away so would be a long journey. Thinking of you Enid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...