English literature

[Canopus]

Many secondary school students with AS struggle badly with traditional English literature such as Shakespeare and poetry. This is despite often having good English language skills. What is your opinion of studying traditional English literature at secondary school?

[Suze]

I think it can depend greatly on the individual student.Some other subjects such as religious studies and languages my son struggles with and has been disapplied from them at secondary school.I loved english literature at school and got an A grade o-level in it,

[sueeltringham]

Well I voted that it was pointless for me! I can see the value in studying it, but not for everyone -btw, I hated it at school, but we had the choice to drop the subject back then!

 

Sue

[chris54]

Being severely dyslexic I find all reading hard work and am never really fully able to appreciate the written word. However I do appreciate the classics using audio or video.

 

My son just does not get poetry and prefers factual books.

[Kathryn]

Well as English Lit. was my major and I taught it for a while at secondary school you can probably guess which two answers I will not choose!

 

I think it's essential to study literature: it helps us to understand ourselves better: there isn't an aspect of the human condition that hasn't been dealt with by a writer in some form somewhere, ancient or modern. And it's fun if taught properly - it beats heating up some bubbling stinking concoction in a testube, or doing calculus, or reciting off by heart the growing conditions of winter wheat in Canada, - I haven't felt the burning need to do any of those in the last 30 years and I'm sure my life hasn't been any poorer as a result. But I've continued to read.

 

And just to blow the AS stereotrype out of the water, my daughter loves literature and although she's studying IT, what she she really wants to do is study English. There's barely a classic that she hasn't read: including Shakespeare, she loves the language, she gets the figurative stuff and I think reading a wide range of fiction and poetry has enhanced her own language and communication skills considerably.

 

English literature needs to be imaginatively taught at school in a way that engages pupils without distorting the work itself. That takes skill and patience: I wasn't up to the challenge - which is why I don't do it any more.

 

K x

Edited October 15, 2008 by Kathryn

[jb1964]

Hi,

 

Bit mixed here - when I was in school - English Literature was a separate subject from English Language - and I think perhaps that was a good thing - grammar, spelling, understanding, etc was a very important part of English Language and I have to say that from what I've seen of my daughter's schoolwork over the years - it isn't their main focus.

 

However, my ASD daughter absolutely loves the literature element - I find it does open up her mind to thinking about the written word - to discuss and understand what is meant beneath the surface - and this is definitely helping with her communication skills.

 

She recently had a Macbeth essay marked perfect - the first time her teacher has ever awarded it - and it's being kept as a model example for future pupils - so I assume she must also be against the stereotypical AS.

 

Ask her about Welsh lessons though and it's a totally different ball game.

 

Take care,

Jb

[pearl]

Wot Kathryn said

My degree was in Eng Lit, & I was turned onto it by a superb teacher.

 

Quite a coincidence finding this thread as I have literally just posted on baddad's thread how difficult JP found Eng Lit. So I'm a bit torn - love it myself, but it was so difficult for him. He will read stuff like Harry Potter now, but usually needs a film version of what he is reading to help him along. It makes me sad, as reading can be such an escape.

[ScienceGeek]

For me it really depended on how it was taught. I had a really passionate young teacher for yrs 8-10 who got my grades up from C/D to As and Bs, as soon as we changed teacher when she left it went back down again. I enjoy reading, I just never really got into studying it and never really understood all these 'hidden meanings' beyond the obvious. I still find factual/biographies a lot easier to read.

[Tally]

I think it is very important that English Literature is taught in schools, but I do accept that there are some students who do not benefit from the subject.

 

I did not particularly enjoy English Literature in school. Though I enjoy reading as an adult, I often fail to understand endings. I often feel that the book just stopped without drawing any conclusions, but the conclusions must be there - just too subtle for me to understand. Perhaps a discussion of the book would help me understand better. I have not been able to read some of the "classics," which makes me sad. I have recently considered doing a short course on 3 Shakespeare plays, which would have been unimaginable when I was in school!

[Kathryn]

Quite a coincidence finding this thread as I have literally just posted on baddad's thread how difficult JP found Eng Lit. So I'm a bit torn - love it myself, but it was so difficult for him. He will read stuff like Harry Potter now, but usually needs a film version of what he is reading to help him along.

Film can be a really useful way in to literature. I couldn't really engage with Shakespeare when we first started to study it at school, the language just seemed too remote and the characters unreal. Then our teacher showed us the Zeffirelli film of Romeo and Juliet and I was blown away and hooked on Shakespeare ever since! It's seriously dated now, of course, but to a 14 year old it was pure magic.

 

I did not particularly enjoy English Literature in school. Though I enjoy reading as an adult, I often fail to understand endings. I often feel that the book just stopped without drawing any conclusions, but the conclusions must be there - just too subtle for me to understand. Perhaps a discussion of the book would help me understand better. I have not been able to read some of the "classics," which makes me sad. I have recently considered doing a short course on 3 Shakespeare plays, which would have been unimaginable when I was in school!

 

When a book is puzzling, it definitely helps to have several people throwing in their ideas - often there's no single right answer. For A level we had to study "Voss" by an Australian author called Patrick White: an elusive and intriguing book if ever there was one. Even the teacher didn't really get it, and freely admitted it, but we all had great fun dissecting it, and some really profound discussions resulted.

 

I hope you do the Shakespeare course Tally. Visit the Globe next time you're in London and be inspired.

[Canopus]

It appears there's considerable support from the cultural point of view. I personally think it would be much better if architecture was taught rather than literature because it's in your face whereas literary classics aren't.

 

A critic of education told me that he thinks English literature is a vastly overrated subject and one with the least relevance to the economy. He also thinks other subjects are overrated including maths and science. They have the advantage of being useful in some careers but the number of jobs wanting any knowledge of English literature, with the exception of teaching, is next to nothing. The same critic of education is very interested in Persian culture including Persian literature. If he tried to make it compulsory in British schools then there will almost certainly be outrage by parents because they will consider it a waste of their children's time on a pointless subject. The same parents strangely don't respond in the same way when the school forces their children to study Shakespeare and Chaucer. Why?

[pookie170]

I went with the cultural vote too....I think it can open up the mind to different points of view, experiences and has the added advantage of building on vocabulary and grammar- and all the while, the reader is simply (hopefully) enjoying a good read. Having said that, if someone really struggles with it then I could see how nightmarish it would be to have to sit through lessons.....

I've often thought that it would be great if every child had the opportunity to drop some subjects to concentrate on those that they excel in, but am aware it's an idealistic...um....idea. I can see so many problems this would throw up, from too many kids wanting to do a particular subject, while too few want to do others (FRENCH!! Bleurgh!!), not enough resources to support this..... fluidity isn't terribly suited to mass education, is it? But I know of sooooo many kids who would not have become disenfranchised from education if they'd been able to concentrate on subjects they were good at....

And I can also think of a few who, if they'd had that option, would not have found a subject that they persevered with until something clicked and they found a new passion.....

 

Just on a personal level, I adore books and devour them whenever the opportunity arises (not literally, of course! I prefer a good spag bol!) but as my Aspie lad gets older, I'm finding he's veering away from the story books he used to love and is opting for factual books instead.

 

Whatever he likes, he's reading a book, he enjoys it, and I do actually think he gets as lost in his factual literature as I do in my fiction......

 

Isn't PSD all about teaching kids about other cultures and viewpoints, from religion to social mores? I think it's a very important subject too, but needs backing up with more hands on experiences like mosque visits, helping at care centres and stuff......ooh, I think I'm babbling now!!

 

Tally made a good point about endings- hands up, anyone who knows what the heck 'Catcher in the Rye' was all about??? Its a bit abstract for me- I enjoyed the read, but I've no idea what I was meant to take from it!!