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bjay

Website you may like - from Barbara J

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Could you explain what 'autistic intelligence' is please? I read this on the website and wasn't familiar with the term.

 

It's the term used by Hans Asperger.

 

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if this attitude prevailed I can imagine a future where courts of law introduce a new type of plea: 'How do you plead? Guilty, not guilty or autistic?'

:lol: :lol: Sorry, I know you were making a serious point and this is not supposed to be funny but tough :lol::D I love that and I needed a laugh. BTW, what happens if we plead 'autistic'? Are we let off immediately (in which case I'll save myself a small fortune on car insurance/tax and certain people may find themselves 'accidentally' slipping into shark-infested tanks) or are we led away never to be seen again to protect all the poor NTs who find 'us' 'scary' :devil::ph34r:

Edited by Mumble

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Rose or lemon flavoured?

 

Just watch out for the White Witch of Cair Paravel :ph34r:

 

It's alright, Mumbley...I understand it's difficult for you :devil:

 

Bid :whistle:

 

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:lol: :lol: Sorry, I know you were making a serious point and this is not supposed to be funny but tough :lol::D I love that and I needed a laugh. BTW, what happens if we plead 'autistic'? Are we let off immediately (in which case I'll save myself a small fortune on car insurance/tax and certain people may find themselves 'accidentally' slipping into shark-infested tanks) or are we led away never to be seen again to protect all the poor NTs who find 'us' 'scary' :devil::ph34r:

 

 

It was a question asked of Barry George.

 

Or have you forgotten?

 

:)

 

 

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When I accused you of being patronising I was referring to your comment on this thread:

 

Perhaps you and Bid could really try to be rather less literal and definitive and selective in your reading. I know this may be difficult for you to do, and I do understand.

 

You appear to be making sweeping assumptions about people you know nothing about.

 

Forgive me, but it does seem as though you have come here with a mission to educate us all rather than to engage in genuine conversation and debate.

 

I'd still be interested in knowing the answer to Baddad's question - for those of us not doing PhD's but still pressed for time nevertheless :rolleyes: , perhaps you could provide some links to the relevant information?

 

Thanks

 

Kathryn

 

 

 

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It was a question asked of Barry George.

 

Or have you forgotten?

 

:)

 

OK, I'm really annoyed now.

 

I don't care if you're good friends with old Tone or indeed Hans Asperger himself...

 

And can I just say that your website, PhD and book will most certainly not speak for this person on the autistic spectrum!!

 

Patronising, patronising, patronising!!

 

Gah!! :wallbash::angry:

 

Bid

Edited by bid

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Bjay,

 

So is there any research to indicate that the 'neurological incident' is a physical thing (electrical or whatever) and if so is there any research to indicate that if it is a physical thing this is exclusive to the autistic condition?

 

What's your answer to this please?

 

:)

 

K x

 

As I've said, the question isn't relevant. I'd said, 'treat a meltdown AS IF it is an epileptic seizure' and said in my two alternative answers, because there's a possibility it might be

 

So, you're asking if a neurological incident is a physical thing. Of course it is. Every time you speak, move your hand, blink, make a decision, it's a neurological incident. And it's all under the control of various brain domains. And then, the decision-maker, the pre-frontal cortex, decides what to respond to and what to filter out. And if the connections are sound, it will make the 'typical' decision. But in autism, the 'local processes' are more strongly wired. These are the five senses and the motor cortex. These take precedence over the 'global processing' defined by the pre-frontal cortex which is the filtering system. So, in autism, the local, sensory, processing is alert to everything - over-connected in neuro-speak. This is what causes meltdowns, overload, and whatever. But it can also produce genius. It's an intelligence that's underrated, except in major scientists and mathematicians, because this local, patterned-focussed intelligence, enables the consideration of detail, which is an alternative form of intelligence and is why those on the spectrum don't do well on conventional IQ tests, but can perform brilliantly on Raven's Progressive Matrices, which are a test of fluid, real, intelligence.

 

Autistic intelligence is the ability to construct untaught patterns within a cognitive framework. This is why some autistic children line things up. It's pattern formation for counting. Autistic intelligence is the stuff that Newtonian physics and Einstein theoretics is all about, at its highest level.

 

It's instinctive pattern formation from local processing, without the 'edit for meaning alone' (pre-frontal cortex) button.

 

It is priceless.

 

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When I accused you of being patronising I was referring to your comment on this thread:

 

Perhaps you and Bid could really try to be rather less literal and definitive and selective in your reading. I know this may be difficult for you to do, and I do understand.

 

You appear to be making sweeping assumptions about people you know nothing about.

 

Forgive me, but it does seem as though you have come here with a mission to educate us all rather than to engage in genuine conversation and debate.

 

I'd still be interested in knowing the answer to Baddad's question - for those of us not doing PhD's but still pressed for time nevertheless :rolleyes: , perhaps you could provide some links to the relevant information?

 

Thanks

 

Kathryn

Kathryn, I'm an old woman, with a lifetime behind me and not much time left. If baddad wants answers, he can get them from links to the research papers on our website instead of taking it third hand.

 

I hope you'll all join us on the AWARES online conference next week?

 

:)

Edited by Kathryn

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Bjay,

 

I took the liberty of fixing the quote tags in your previous post, hope you don't mind.

 

 

I'm sure Baddad can go to your site if he wants to and has the time - I don't speak for him, but for myself. I was merely suggesting that you continue the debate here by answering the direct questions that have been asked here. :)

 

 

"I'm an old woman, with a lifetime behind me and not much time left"

 

My sentiments exactly. I haven't got time myself to join the Awares conference this time round, but there are many regular attenders on this site who will probably drop in.

 

Kathryn

Edited by Kathryn

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I don't intend to answer any more questions here to people who just want to take pot shots at me, without caring to look at our board and the links.

 

How interesting that the Mods on this forum aren't willing to listen to the latest research on ASC s in the AWARES forum.

 

I think that says it all.

 

But heck - who am I? Just a patronising old epileptic who doesn't know neurology from a tantrum. Hey hey.

 

Whatever.

 

I've been dissed before by bigoted neurotypicals, but never on an ASC board.

 

It's a first.

 

xx

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As I've said, the question isn't relevant. I'd said, 'treat a meltdown AS IF it is an epileptic seizure' and said in my two alternative answers, because there's a possibility it might be

 

So, you're asking if a neurological incident is a physical thing. Of course it is. Every time you speak, move your hand, blink, make a decision, it's a neurological incident. And it's all under the control of various brain domains. And then, the decision-maker, the pre-frontal cortex, decides what to respond to and what to filter out. And if the connections are sound, it will make the 'typical' decision. But in autism, the 'local processes' are more strongly wired. These are the five senses and the motor cortex. These take precedence over the 'global processing' defined by the pre-frontal cortex which is the filtering system. So, in autism, the local, sensory, processing is alert to everything - over-connected in neuro-speak. This is what causes meltdowns, overload, and whatever. But it can also produce genius. It's an intelligence that's underrated, except in major scientists and mathematicians, because this local, patterned-focussed intelligence, enables the consideration of detail, which is an alternative form of intelligence and is why those on the spectrum don't do well on conventional IQ tests, but can perform brilliantly on Raven's Progressive Matrices, which are a test of fluid, real, intelligence.

 

Autistic intelligence is the ability to construct untaught patterns within a cognitive framework. This is why some autistic children line things up. It's pattern formation for counting. Autistic intelligence is the stuff that Newtonian physics and Einstein theoretics is all about, at its highest level.

 

It's instinctive pattern formation from local processing, without the 'edit for meaning alone' (pre-frontal cortex) button.

 

It is priceless.

 

Good grief. I actually understood that, and it made sense :thumbs: as the mum of a 13yr boy with ASD it was very enlightening, as was your site, I need all the help I can get, thats why I`m on this forum at this time of night. >:D<<'> Enid

 

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How interesting that the Mods on this forum aren't willing to listen to the latest research on ASC s in the AWARES forum.

 

I take it your comment is directed at me bjay? I don't know how you arrive at this assumption - I never said I wasn't willing to listen. I don't have time to take part in the Awares conference this time - I have a day job. I have attended previous Awares conferences and found them very worthwhile and stimulating. :huh: If you're participating, I hope it goes well.

 

Kathryn

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi bjay -

 

TBH I don't think I'll bother looking at your site, because the attitudes you've displayed on this one tell me everything I need to know

 

I don't want to be stroked, I want fair comment, and genuine feedback which will help me create a website which will, like my book, and like my PhD, publicise and disseminate the words and thoughts of those on the spectrum, so that everyone can hear.

 

You seem to be dictating for yourself what equates to 'fair comment and genuine feedback', and also seem only to want to hear, publicise and disseminate the words and thoughts of those on the spectrum who agree with your (a non autistic persons) definition of what autism is!

I have no idea if you're an 'old epileptic' and that really is an irrelevancy (unlike my still unanswered question as to whether there is research to back up your sweeping generalisations), but I think you've more than adequately demonstrated the other quality you mention.

I've not read your book, and the following should not be taken as a comment or criticism on it, but what I do know is that if you publish a book that tells people what they want to hear it will be successful. There are certainly millions of parents and many, many autistic people who would like the 'get out of jail free' card the views you have expressed represent. As for 'autistic intelligence' to me it sounds like savantism wrapped in pretty paper and ribbons. It may well be

 

the stuff that Newtonian physics and Einstein theoretics is all about, at its highest level.

But it applies to a tiny, tiny percentage of autistic people, and to an even tinier percentage who have all of the other skills to actually apply it in a coherent and practical manner. It's 'fluff' - sensationalist fodder for the masses that totally overlooks the real difficulties of autistic people.

 

Finally, I've got to say you' gave me the best laugh I've had in ages with your closing comment so thank you for that. :thumbs: You start with an assumption that I disagree with you because I am autistic and therefore incapable of understanding you, and then when I point out that i've not said I'm autistic you come back with:

I've been dissed before by bigoted neurotypicals, but never on an ASC board.

 

Priceless.... absolutely priceless... :notworthy:

 

L&P

 

BD :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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So, you're asking if a neurological incident is a physical thing. Of course it is. Every time you speak, move your hand, blink, make a decision, it's a neurological incident. And it's all under the control of various brain domains. And then, the decision-maker, the pre-frontal cortex, decides what to respond to and what to filter out. And if the connections are sound, it will make the 'typical' decision. But in autism, the 'local processes' are more strongly wired. These are the five senses and the motor cortex. These take precedence over the 'global processing' defined by the pre-frontal cortex which is the filtering system. So, in autism, the local, sensory, processing is alert to everything - over-connected in neuro-speak. This is what causes meltdowns, overload, and whatever. But it can also produce genius. It's an intelligence that's underrated, except in major scientists and mathematicians, because this local, patterned-focussed intelligence, enables the consideration of detail, which is an alternative form of intelligence and is why those on the spectrum don't do well on conventional IQ tests, but can perform brilliantly on Raven's Progressive Matrices, which are a test of fluid, real, intelligence.

 

Hi Bjay, I am a psychology student, having just started my degree, with the aim of specializing in SEN and particularly ASD research. I have a child on the spectrum and a parent, a sibling, a partner and a nephew who are un-dx but suspected (very justifiably).

 

I have looked on the links page of your website but can't find the link to the research you've taken this information from. Can you please let me know where to look as I find this very fascinating, especially as it backs up ideas i've been having based on my own experiences with my family. I do agree that there does seem to be a difference between an average loss of temper and a meltdown, as I know I can tell with my son and my partner but I was unaware that there was research corroborating this.

 

I do have to say also though, that I agree with baddad that everyone should learn the concequences of unacceptable behaviour regardless of their neurotype, and it is difficult to know how to handle this when faced with someone having a meltdown especially if the two coincide, I deal with this by giving my son some quiet time in his safe place (under his cabin bed) before he gets put on the step, I tell him exactly what is going to happen so he's aware that his punishment is only delayed not negated, and the only toys he's allowed are his 'twiddles' that help him calm down. This system seems to work well for us, but as he's only 5 and his needs are increasing as he progresses through school I couldn't say that it would definately work for others or even for us as he gets older.

 

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Hi Bjay,

 

I find it interesting that while I apologised for being rude, you haven't apologised for being extremely patronising to me:

 

I know this may be difficult for you to do, and I do understand

 

Bid :(

 

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Hi Bjay, I am a psychology student, having just started my degree, with the aim of specializing in SEN and particularly ASD research. I have a child on the spectrum and a parent, a sibling, a partner and a nephew who are un-dx but suspected (very justifiably).

 

I have looked on the links page of your website but can't find the link to the research you've taken this information from. Can you please let me know where to look as I find this very fascinating, especially as it backs up ideas i've been having based on my own experiences with my family. I do agree that there does seem to be a difference between an average loss of temper and a meltdown, as I know I can tell with my son and my partner but I was unaware that there was research corroborating this.

 

I do have to say also though, that I agree with baddad that everyone should learn the concequences of unacceptable behaviour regardless of their neurotype, and it is difficult to know how to handle this when faced with someone having a meltdown especially if the two coincide, I deal with this by giving my son some quiet time in his safe place (under his cabin bed) before he gets put on the step, I tell him exactly what is going to happen so he's aware that his punishment is only delayed not negated, and the only toys he's allowed are his 'twiddles' that help him calm down. This system seems to work well for us, but as he's only 5 and his needs are increasing as he progresses through school I couldn't say that it would definately work for others or even for us as he gets older.

 

Are these what you're looking for? :)

 

Authors: Belmonte,M.K.; Allen,G. ; Beckel-Mitchener,A.; Boulanger,L.M. ; Carper,R.A.; Webb,S.J.

Title: Autism and abnormal development of brain connectivity

Periodical, Full: Journal of Neuroscience

Pub Year: 2004

Volume: 24

Issue: 42

Start Page: 9228

Other Pages: 9231

 

Authors: Dawson,M.; Soulières,I.; Gernsbacher,M.A. ; Mottron,L.

Title: The level and nature of autistic intelligence

Periodical, Full: Psychological Science

Pub Year: 2007

Volume: 18

Issue: 8

Start Page: 657

Other Pages: 662

 

:)

Edited by bjay

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Thank you for those :) they really are facinating, especially the incidence of prefrontal and medial teporal hyperactivation in non-ASD siblings, I wonder if this would lead to an understanding of the apparent familial link between ASD's and other learning dificulties, that present similar symptoms, such as ADHD, dyslexia, dyspraxia, PDD-NOS, etc, that often appear alone or as comorbids with high frequency in familys where some members are on the spectrum?

 

Is there any research that has been done specifically about the occurance of meltdown? Although the two above are highly suggestive of it being a neurological incident there is nothing in there that directly relates to it, IYSWIM. I truly do not mean any offence, as I have a huge respect for anyone who uses their learning and experience to help people (especially with regards to autism as it has impacted on myself and my family deeply), but if there hasn't been any direct research into meltdowns it may be detrimental to present as fact somthing which is still conjecture, especially on a public forum where many people are unlikely to have accessed the information that would lead to this conclusion.

 

Being in the middle of both sides as it were, as both an aspiring proffessional and a member of a family where ASD's are prevailant, I watched this topic unfold with interest as, from a parental perspective, I'm aware of how much so called "scientific studies" and so many so called "proffesionals" have been useless and sometime damaging in what they have done and said, let alone the amount we encounter that know less about ASD's then we have managed to learn ourselves. But, as a student wanting to become a proffessional, I'm also aware that proffessionals are only human and as prone to the same mistakes and slips of tounge as anybody else. Unfortunately, no matter how long people study they can never become superhuman, and when it's your child affected everyone forgets this fact. I wouldn't wish to speak for anyone else but it is my personal opinion that this is what led to the hasty words, on all accounts, last night. (again I apologise if I cause anyone offence. I don't mean to, just voicing my POV)

 

Perhaps, if there hasn't been any direct research done into meltdowns, it is an issue you could raise at the AWARES conference if you get chance? I'm sure that, although finding the reasons behind ASD'd is important, finding out the cause of, and better management stratagies for, meltdowns is something that would have more practical use to those who are affected and their families/carers.

Edited by kinky j

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Is there any research that has been done specifically about the occurance of meltdown?

 

 

No. Would you like me to do some? Let me know. On the website, all I'm giving is a mindset guidance issue - treat it AS IF, because this may help you as a parent, and it may help your child. It's just a help thing. It may not work. Who knows?

 

Would you like me, or others, on the AET, to go more deeply into that issue? And if so why? And can you gather enough others who will fund the research? That would be really useful.

 

Thank you for your kindness, empathy, and interest.

 

And please join us all on the AWARES conference, starting online on November 24th.

 

:)

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No. Would you like me to do some? Let me know. On the website, all I'm giving is a mindset guidance issue - treat it AS IF, because this may help you as a parent, and it may help your child. It's just a help thing. It may not work. Who knows?

 

Would you like me, or others, on the AET, to go more deeply into that issue? And if so why? And can you gather enough others who will fund the research? That would be really useful.

 

Thank you for your kindness, empathy, and interest.

 

And please join us all on the AWARES conference, starting online on November 24th.

 

:)

 

As much as I would love to, I'd have no idea where to start looking for people to fund any kind of research :huh:, I've only just begun my degree course and have no professional contacts at all. This is why I suggested raising the idea on the awares conference, there's likely to be more people there who will see the benefits of researching this area and be in a better position to arrange all the details. Is it free to access? Being a full time carer to my son and a student doesn't leave me in the greatest of financial positions :rolleyes: But if it's open to all I'll definately pop in.

 

The reasons I think this is an area that should be researched is because it is one of the most difficult aspects to manage on a day to day basis and one that impacts on many areas of day to day life, due to the emotional strain on all involved, the violence displayed to both themselves, others and inanimate objects, the way it impacts on their education and financial issues to name just a few issues involved. If there is a possiblity that meltdowns are uncontrolable neurological incidents then we, as a society, have an ethical duty to investigate it, more so if it leads to methods of management.

 

Finding the cause of meltdowns could help protect the physical and psychological well-being of people with ASD's and those around them (parents, carers, teachers, peers, siblings etc) by highlighting better management and prevention stratagies and by creating better understanding. the beneficial impact of this could be immense.

 

To any professional genuinely interested in why this would be a worthwhile area to study I would recommend taking some time to read through some of the posts on this forum and any others pertaining to ASD's. The three most prevailent topics are; Lack of provision for adults -from diagnosis to support, Difficulties within the educational system, and the issues raised by, and methods to deal with, meltdowns. And the first two topics are already being addressed.

 

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No. Would you like me to do some? Let me know. On the website, all I'm giving is a mindset guidance issue - treat it AS IF, because this may help you as a parent, and it may help your child. It's just a help thing. It may not work. Who knows?

 

Would you like me, or others, on the AET, to go more deeply into that issue? And if so why? And can you gather enough others who will fund the research? That would be really useful.

 

Thank you for your kindness, empathy, and interest.

 

And please join us all on the AWARES conference, starting online on November 24th.

 

:)

 

Hi bjay - sorry, I'm not being deliberately 'challenging' but I've got to say i really feel any research you undertook on this would be inherently flawed as you obviously have very significant expectations about what the research would 'reveal'.

I hope you don't mind me asking, but why do you include 'empathy' in your thank you to Kinky J? Given the patronising tone of some of your earlier posts relating to autistic members it seems a particularly 'pointed' term to use; almost as if suggesting that the negative responses you received lacked empathy.

 

:)

 

OH - PS: as i posted I saw Kinky-j's new post...

 

Totally agree about this:

Finding the cause of meltdowns could help protect the physical and psychological well-being of people with ASD's and those around them (parents, carers, teachers, peers, siblings etc) by highlighting better management and prevention stratagies and by creating better understanding. the beneficial impact of this could be immense

but I think the first place to start is from a level playing field where you assume that the 'triggers' for rage/frustration etc are the same as they are for neurotypical people with anger management problems and proceed from there, rather than theorising that it's something inherently different that demands completely different responses...

Look at society; do you think that 'meltdowns' are exclusive to the autistic community? Do you not think that identifying a single group as potentially more likely to go 'out of control' when all the evidence suggests that undercontrolled personalities exist in all social groups is dangerous? Why look for something 'different' in autistic people than in the rest of the community, when text book psychology already offers clear models for the kind of things that trigger 'rage'? Look at why autistic people have a lower threshold (or heightened susceptibility if you want to look at it from the other direction) for coping with those events, rather than looking for a unique difference in the way the brain behaves on receiving those signals.

And its all a moot point anyway, because even if there is 'something else' there some of the time you've still got to have the expectations of self control and self management as the bedrock on which you build a recovery plan.

 

:D

Edited by baddad

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Mumble, I'm talking about the moments BEFORE the ACTUAL meltdown. If you look at the site, Debi is very specific about the signs and symptoms of going into a real meltdown, and they're very similar to the signs and symptoms of an imminent seizure - clamminess etc.

 

That's interesting, because in Managing Epilepsy. A Clinical Handbook. M.P.Taylor, p.37, 'pallor and sweating' are noted as being uncommon preceding an epileptic seizure, as opposed to other events.

 

I still have difficulty equating the autistic meltdowns I have experienced (myself, my son and at work) with the epileptic seizures I deal with at work. Maybe this is because I work with young people with severe epilepsy?

 

Your advice to deal with an autistic meltdown as if it were an epileptic seizure concerns me in a number of ways. Firstly I cannot see this similarity through my own personal and professional experience. Secondly, I wonder how parents will react to this advice, especially if they have no experience of seizures...it seems to me that there is a risk of either panicking them unnecessarily about meltdowns, or almost trivialising the impact of epileptic seizures.

 

You advise treating the meltdown as if it's a seizure...but how can you do that when they are two different things? For a start, a meltdown however distressing is never going to be life-threatening (although I recognise a child in a meltdown may put themselves in danger). I have never had to give a child in a meltdown oxygen, put them in the recovery position, give them emergency front-line intervention, e.g. rectal diazepam, and so on. You described a seizure as 'merely a neurological incidence', but for some people with refractory seizures it is far from this.

 

I know there are different seizure types, but I genuinely cannot see how the way I would treat a child during any of them equates to how I would treat a child during a meltdown, other than the use of simple language and non-threatening body language. Maybe you could explain the similarities in your experience, please? :)

 

Bid :)

 

Ditto the 'empathy' comment BD :o

Edited by bid

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but I think the first place to start is from a level playing field where you assume that the 'triggers' for rage/frustration etc are the same as they are for neurotypical people with anger management problems and proceed from there, rather than theorising that it's something inherently different that demands completely different responses...

Look at society; do you think that 'meltdowns' are exclusive to the autistic community? Do you not think that identifying a single group as potentially more likely to go 'out of control' when all the evidence suggests that undercontrolled personalities exist in all social groups is dangerous? Why look for something 'different' in autistic people than in the rest of the community, when text book psychology already offers clear models for the kind of things that trigger 'rage'? Look at why autistic people have a lower threshold (or heightened susceptibility if you want to look at it from the other direction) for coping with those events, rather than looking for a unique difference in the way the brain behaves on receiving those signals.

And its all a moot point anyway, because even if there is 'something else' there some of the time you've still got to have the expectations of self control and self management as the bedrock on which you build a recovery plan.

 

:D

 

I completely agree, and I appologise if it came across as if I believed that meltowns are specific to those with ASD's and different from other forms of rage. TBH I don't know for certain if this is the case or not. Nobody does and that's the problem.

 

I don't like to have set expectations of what any type of research will find, it's bad practice. The easiest path to learning is through an open mind. I know I did write my post from the veiwpoint of one possible outcome though, I was going to write both but I'd already wrote a small essay and know that I can bore people when I go into too much depth.

 

The main reason I would choose people on the spectrum to be participants in this kind of study would be because there seems to be a high rate of meltdowns or rages in this section of society possibly due to the high levels of stress, frustration and anxiety inherent with asd's. If the neural processing that occurs during this time could be monitored and recorded, possibly by using MRI, it could identify exactly what happens, which could be used to identify if there is a difference (with further research) and if there's any way of managing it better, either outcome.

 

I have a fair few plausable theories about meltdowns (another of which being that it's related to the fight or flight reflex, as the flip side of meltdown is shutdown both of which seem to be caused by strong emotional triggers), but these come soley from my own experinces and ideas and without evidence to back them up I would never express any as fact .

 

The main crux of my arguement was purely that there's so much still unknown about the subject, despite it being one of the main issues raised and one that has so much impact on daily life, and that needs to be addressed.

 

There's plenty of helpful tips about that may or may not help, what we NEED is hard facts so that we can begin to understand and address it properly, whether thats as an ASD specific thing or on a general basis.

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but I think the first place to start is from a level playing field where you assume that the 'triggers' for rage/frustration etc are the same as they are for neurotypical people with anger management problems and proceed from there, rather than theorising that it's something inherently different that demands completely different responses...

Surely the fact that autistic individuals are part of the same environment as non-autistic individuals means that all are exposed to the same triggers - for instance, there can't be a different trigger that I as an autistic individual am exposed to that my non-autistic student flatmates aren't, because we share the same environment. I would go further than BD above, to remove the phrase "with anger management problems", leaving it at: "the first place to start is from a level playing field where you assume that the 'triggers' for rage/frustration etc are the same as they are for neurotypical people.". All people, NT/ND/ASD have the potential for rage given the 'right' circumstances.

 

Everyone copes with, or indeed needs, different inputs based on a massive and probably not fully known list of reasons. What is right for one person can range from annoying through to painful for another person. It's part of what makes us unique.

 

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Thinking some more about this...

 

I have sometimes been absolutely incandescent with rage...but that is just temper, not a meltdown (for me).

 

The only 'true' autistic meltdowns I have ever had have been through complete sensory overload, and have not been about rage.

 

Obviously that's just me, but just thought it highlights the fact that all of us on the spectrum are individuals with a different meltdown profile.

 

Bid :)

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Bid and Mumble, I have been thinking about your posts above and it's raised an interesting question for me. (bear with me cos I'm not great at explaining myself so I'll appologise in advance in case I cause offence, I don't intend to :unsure: )

 

Do you think that the behaviours commonly associated with meltdown are symptomatic rather than what a meltdown actually is? IYSWIM. Kind of like how a cold is caused by an infection and the coughing, sneezing, fever etc are the symptoms that make it outwardly visable and different in everyone.

 

If this is the case, do you think that meltdown and shutdown are just two different aspects of the same issue?

Edited by kinky j

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Just wanted to clarify, I want to thank Bid and Mumble for the insight they gave me, but the questions are to anyone who has an opinion on them. I was quite tired when i posted last night and reading it through and I didn't think I'd made this apparent.

 

sorry for any confusion (and possibly for over explaining myself :unsure: , which I do alot of and probably over appologising too)

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