AJ up in court again!!

[Stella63]

Hi,

 

For those who followed the previous thread about AJ stealing OJ's games and then getting arrested for having cannabis on him and attacking us AGAIN with a metal pole, he has been charged with possession, affray and criminal damage (although the police missed out the huge chunks of plaster gouged out of our walls all the way up the stairs, landing, spare room and his room and focused on the very cheap, old, plastic garden chair that got destroyed!!).

 

He seemed to accept his fate until yesterday when he started on me telling me to withdraw the charges or we would be ruining his life cos he would get a criminal record - he cannot see that he has done this to himself and the consequences were made very clear to him! He was very intimidating towards me, which he can't see or doesn't want to and ended up losing his part time job cos he was too angry to go (and that was all my fault as well!!).

 

Today, amazingly he went into school (first time for several weeks) to take a science module exam and he knew we were having a meeting with SS and Youth Justice. They tried to talk to him about taking responsibility and consequences etc but he wouldn't budge from this view point that we were messing up his life by pursuing charges.

 

Later, after going round in circles with this he got very angry, punched more holes in his wall, smashed a lamp in the lounge, DH told him to go, he went up to his room and started sobbing. I have only seen him cry maybe 3 or 4 times in his whole life and when that happens you know that he is very stressed and upset. He was supposed to have his interview for his work placement with a landscape gardener but obviously was not in a fit state so I managed to get a second chance for him.

 

He then calmed down, sat down and we tried talking again but still not getting anywhere, other than him promising us that if we drop charges he will sort his life out but probably not until after Xmas cos he needs more time!!!!!! then phone rings and the police want him to go to station to be arrested for something that happened last saturday!!! Luckily, he was ther but not involved so did statement and was told that there wouldn't be any further action, probably!

 

he was very calm and nice early evening but while I was upstairs with OJ in the bath, he snuck down, saw DH asleep and stole �10 from his wallet!!!

 

So, the big question is, what do we do? If he goes to court for all the charges he will get a criminal record ( 2 charges of affray), the possession of cannabis is a lesser charge as it was only a tiny bit. If we back down he is not learning from it but if he gets a criminal record thats with him for a long time and these days it seriously affects your chances of getting any job as any employer can access the CRB and that could mean he will go further down the illegal route and the repurcussions for us as a family could be huge. But if we don't follow it through he has got away with it and we can't cope with these increasing, violent assaults on us.

 

any advice would be appreciated, as always.

 

 

Stella xx

[Elouise]

 

Stella,

I do not think you can afford to back down, I guess the ODD combiened with the ADHD makes taking any responsibility very hard.

 

It might be worth contacting the Challenging Behaviour Foundation as AJ has such a fiery mix of conditions, http://www.thecbf.org.uk/ Whilst the majority of their work is with severe learning disabilities they do offer support to parents of children with ADHD+++. Might be worth calling them so they can point you in the right direction.

ADDISS may also be able to help as may 'Positive Parenting', some facilitors are trained to help parents come up with strategies for mind numbing behaviours from their little bundles of joy.

 

 

BIBIC http://www.bibic.org.uk/ have some folk trained to give advice and practical ideas to parents whose children have 'behavioural challenges that impact on their education or ability to cope in society with law and rules enforcement'

 

Hope that is of some help in a grim situation.

 

 

[stressedmumto2]

Hi Stella I am so sorry you are going through this and I do not know what to suggest at all. I really would not want to be in your situation because even though it would be teaching him a lesson would it really? it could also ruin his life chances of securing a job, but if you don't he may continue. It's also worth taking into account if he did end up with charges against him and couldn't get a job could he then turn to even more crime or worse case scenario prison, if he ended up in prison could it do more harm than good? I really do not know what to suggest at all and I am so sorry you are in this situation. What have the police said about how how it may effect him with trying to find employment.

 

I was reading the bibic site today and there was actually an interesting article on there about crime and people in prisons, I hope they may be able to offer you some help, take care

[chris54]

If he doesn't suffer the consequences of his actions this time, what about next time?

 

A criminal record may affect some types of employment. But does not rule out getting a job. At his age he has plenty of time to turn things around before entering the job market.

I don't know the details but after a certain time convictions are spent and for most jobs not longer has to be mentioned.

[Tally]

It does not look to me like he is making any attempt to sort his life out. Someone who was serious about doing that would recognise that they have behaved unreasonably and would not need to wait until after Christmas. I think that you have to pay more attention to his behaviour than his words, since his promises don't seem to mean very much.

 

Employers should be reasonable about his criminal record, given the offences and his age. Unless he chooses to escalate his criminal record, it needn't stop him getting a job.

 

The court should be able to take into account his conditions when deciding what to do with him.

[sueeltringham]

An incredibly difficult situation to be in for all of you and sending lots of hugs.

Of course you don't want to back down, but I was wondering if there was some sort of compromise, otherwise your relationship is going to downward spiral even further and also his behaviour, etc. I'm thinking along the lines of a police caution which would mean that if he ever gets in trouble with the police again, then he will be charged. He needs to understand this. Also, a written contract drawn up with your son agreeing what he has to do to improve NOW -step by step and agreed by both/all of you with a timescale and targets. If he can't agree to this then you have to go ahead and press charges and he needs to understand this. You would be offering him a 'way out' but he's going to have to take responsibility. Sorry if this sounds ridiculous, I was trying to think of a solution and, of course, I don't know the history.

 

Sue

[Kathryn]

Oh Stella,

 

<'>

 

Just from your post above, my impression is that this is a young man whose life is out of control at the moment, and even if he sincerely wanted to turn his life around, he doesn't have the personal resources to do that at the moment. He still has a problem with anger and needs help with this urgently before there are worse consequences. He is still stealing. You and especially OJ need respite and protection from his behaviour. I think the right decision is to follow it through, but I can't imagine how tough it is to have to make this choice as a parent.

 

K x

[Cat]

 

Stella <'> <'>

 

100% agree with Kathryn. This young man will not be able to turn this round alone he needs serious help. BUT backing down is not an option really. There comes a point when standing firm is all we have left to do no matter how hard that may be. I have a friend who has been where you are now and wore the T Shirt. It was eventually taken out of her hands and that was when her son finally did get some help. My friend was rightly very angry because she had, like you, been begging for help before things were taken out of her hands. When it was finally taken out of her hands her youngest was placed on the child protection register and that was something that my friend never quite got over

 

Cat

 

 

[Kazzen161]

This group supports parents who suffer from violence from their children. Maybe they can advise.

 

http://www.hertsdirect.org/comdirectory/co...cchild/12607033

[Enid]

An incredibly difficult situation to be in for all of you and sending lots of hugs.

Of course you don't want to back down, but I was wondering if there was some sort of compromise, otherwise your relationship is going to downward spiral even further and also his behaviour, etc. I'm thinking along the lines of a police caution which would mean that if he ever gets in trouble with the police again, then he will be charged. He needs to understand this. Also, a written contract drawn up with your son agreeing what he has to do to improve NOW -step by step and agreed by both/all of you with a timescale and targets. If he can't agree to this then you have to go ahead and press charges and he needs to understand this. You would be offering him a 'way out' but he's going to have to take responsibility. Sorry if this sounds ridiculous, I was trying to think of a solution and, of course, I don't know the history.

 

Sue

 

Stella, although I know most of the other answers are probably the right way, I think this is something to consider. whatever your choice we will all be supporting you on these boards. <'> <'> <'> <'> <'> Enid

[NickyB]

Stella <'> <'>

 

Personally, I feel that following things through is probably the best way, although I have no idea how hard it must be for you. He's still young enough to turn things round and for it not to have a completely devastating effect on his future. It seems to me from reading your post that something drastic needs to happen before he can accept that he needs help.

 

However, these are just my own views and I wouldn't pretend to be an expert in any way - I truly hope that you can find a solution which helps all of you.

 

Take care <'> <'>

 

[mossgrove]

Stella

 

I am sorry you are having to deal with this.

 

What I can't answer because I don't know your son is whether he is serious about sorting his life out or he is working from the notion (possibly given to him by a friend) that if he tells you he is going to sort his life out then that should be enough to get him off the charges. I fear it may be the latter.

 

You are as you say caught between a rock and a hard place, but having got this far you are down to two options, follow through or allow him to avoid the consequences of his actions and however difficult, unpleasant and guilt-inducing the first option would be, the second could possibly lead to him feeling he las learned a set of actions that will allow him to avoid the consequences of his misbehaviours and the long-term consequences could be even worse.

 

 

<'> <'>

 

Simon

 

 

[puffin]

This is a very tough decision - I can understand your dilemma. There DO need to be consequences - but what would be the right consequences

 

Given his age and medical conditions I wonder if he is really capable of "sorting his own life out" by himself or whether he needs some for of residential treatment/placement to give him the structure he needs? - the question is what sort of placement would be best suited to his problems? If he is sentenced for example to youth custody will he get the help he needs or will your family just end up in the same position down the line

 

The thing that really jumped out at me was the "affray" charge - I always thought that this was a really serious crime that almost always resulted in a custodial sentence. It's usually used after riots etc - I'm not sure I have ever heard of it used in a domestic incident - but perhaps I'm wrong - it might be worth clarifying the likely sentence with the lawyer

Edited November 21, 2008 by puffin

[Clare63]

Stella, I do so wish I had some answers for you. You have good responses above and I hope these give you some clarification on how you wish to take this forward.

 

All I have to offer Stella is my support, I am here at the end of the phone if you need to talk.

 

Thinking of you ~ <'> <'> <'>

 

Clare x x x

[Stella63]

Hi,

 

Well, firstly thanks so much for all your support, comments and opinions and links - it really does help get things into perspective because everyone looks at things differently.

 

As it turns out, it wasn't as simple as us withdrawing the charges cos the police decide what they proceed with and also he already has a criminal record for the previous conviction. AJ didn't mention anything for a couple of days - it was almost as though he realised, or was told by friends, that there was very little anyone could do, so he has been behaving himself. Both DH and I spoke to the DS in charge of his case and he suggested that if AJ came down to the police station for a chat with him it could have a positive effect on his court case. AJ was up for this so I took him down today. The guy was really great with him and basically told him that he would never be a true 'hard' criminal cos he doesn't have the background and if he continues the way he is and ends up in prison he would get eaten alive by the real hard guys! He talked about the drugs thing and about hanging around with youths several years older ( basically that they have been left behind by their own peer group and therefore need to look to younger kids to get the respect they so desperately want). That makes perfect sense to me!!

 

Anyway, all is quiet, AJ assures me he has learnt his lesson and will not be dealing or messing about with drugs, no more stealing etc. I am adopting the positive approach with him but realistically I don't believe a word he is saying (please don't say I'm being negative cos if he really means it we will start to see signs but on the other hand we have been through so much and witnessed his barefaced lies etc). We are his parents and we love him, whatever mistakes he makes but, and we have made this clear to him, any drugs found, anything stolen will result in the same course of action.

 

I will let you know what happens on Wednesday, his 16th birthday, what a way to celebrate!!!!????

 

 

 

 

Stella xx

[Tally]

Stella, I don't think you are being negative. You have seen that what he says cannot be relied on. That doesn't mean you don't love him, because you love him even though he has lied to you. It might be that he even means it when he says it but can't sustain it. You need to see a change in his behaviour before you can believe him, and that is completely understandable.

 

I hope Wednesday goes OK. Maybe it will even result in him getting some support, considering he has shown that he wants to sort himself out.

[Enid]

Stella <'> <'> Thank god we dont know the future when they are tiny babies and we have such great hopes!!!!!! You are doing great, day at a time is how I cope, and dont expect too much, then you dont get dissapointed. <'> <'> Be thinking of you Wednesday. Enid

[Clare63]

Stella,

 

Here's hoping AJ has turned a corner, I don't think you are being negative either, just realistic.

 

Be thinking of you all on Wednesday.

 

<'> <'> <'> <'> <'>

 

Clare x x x

[NickyB]

I'll be thinking of you on Wednesday, Stella <'> <'> <'>

[Moll]

I missed this earlier as I have not been online, you are right not to take his word actions always speek louder than words, this must be so hard and I hope things go well on Wednesday.

[stressedmumto2]

Stella I hope everything goes ok on Wednesday and that your son turns a corner, thinking of you <'>

[joybed]

Stella hope he means what he says, good luck on Wednesday I will be thinking of you.

[oxgirl]

Is there any way you can keep him away from these 'friends' of his, Stella. Sounds like they could influence him into going back to bad ways and it might prove too difficult for him to refuse them. Would he agree to stop seeing them or to a curfew of some sort, do you think? Maybe you could agree with him a written contract, I think someone suggested that already, that he doesn't go out at certain times or that he stays away from certain people who could lead him astray. If he were to agree to this and sign it, then it could be a positive sign that he was willing to work towards changing. If he just carries on seeing all the same old people then it'd be easy for him to be carried along by them into doing things that he might not want to do anymore.

 

~ Mel ~

[Kathryn]

Hi Stella,

 

It's good to hear all is quiet at the moment,

 

At least now that the decision to proceed has been taken out of your hands, you needn't feel guilt over that part. Thinking of you on Wednesday and I hope whatever the outcome, it marks a turning point for AJ.

 

Stay strong

 

<'>

 

K x

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cat]

 

Hi Stella,

 

You are not being negative you are being honest with yourself and that is important. I love my three sons dearly but I know that they are far from perfect and all have faults. Admitting this does not make me love them any less. It just means that I accept them warts and all as you do with AJ.

 

stay strong <'>

 

Cat

 

 

[kinky j]

Is there any way you can keep him away from these 'friends' of his, Stella. Sounds like they could influence him into going back to bad ways and it might prove too difficult for him to refuse them. Would he agree to stop seeing them or to a curfew of some sort, do you think? Maybe you could agree with him a written contract, I think someone suggested that already, that he doesn't go out at certain times or that he stays away from certain people who could lead him astray. If he were to agree to this and sign it, then it could be a positive sign that he was willing to work towards changing. If he just carries on seeing all the same old people then it'd be easy for him to be carried along by them into doing things that he might not want to do anymore.

 

~ Mel ~

 

While keeping him away from the people most likely to bad influence him is a brilliant idea, a written contract between any parent and child is just likely to make them put more pressure on him. Think back to being a teenager, imagine how your friends would have reacted if you'd told them you couldn't hang around with them any more because your mum had said your not allowed! You could be risking them using humilliation as a means of co-ercing him into doing what they want as no teenage lad wants their mates to call them a "mummy's boy".

 

Would it be possible to contact the officers involved and asking about whether they think it might be worthwhile putting him 'on tag' ?(those tracking device thingys that alert the police if you go somewhere 'out of bounds' or break kerfew? I know they get used a fair bit in my area for tackling young offenders and ASBO's. this way it would be the court imposing it rather than you IYSWIM and He's less likely to be influenced to rebel against it if he knows that breaking the rules means going back to court and a possibly worse outcome.

 

 

[Clare63]

Been thinking of you all today ~ <'> <'> <'> <'> <'> <'>

 

Clare x x x

[Enid]

And me. <'> <'> Enid

[NickyB]

Me too - hope you're OK <'> <'> <'>

 

[puffin]

Hope all went OK yesterday

[Stella63]

Hi

 

Thanks so much for all your support and kind thoughts. I haven't had the energy until now to get on the computer!!

 

Well, after a very long day, they were in and out of court from 9.30 til 3pm, they have put AJ on a 3 month supervision order which means he has to have weekly contact with his youth justice officer and she will be able to get him on an anger management course starting in Woking after xmas and some drug counselling and whatever else they can come up with.

 

We're pleased with the result as the youth justice service are fantastic - they seem to be the only ones we have come into contact with who have the knowledge and experience of ADHD and AS teenagers and have access to a wide range of services. They also get on with things, unlike SS, who have done nothing since our big meeting!!!

 

It does mean that he will have a criminal record and this is something he will have to live with - a very real consequence to his actions!

 

So the rest of his birthday was reasonably quiet until I went into his room late last night to chuck his friend out and found his friend rolling up a joint!!! Needless to say, friend was booted out told never to return and the joint was flushed down the toilet. AJ's response was 'well it wasn't mine so whats the problem!'

 

Going to be watching him very closely for a very long time! Anyway, too knackered to say anymore for the moment, waiting for DH to come home with a nice curry! My parent support worker has told me we have to try and regain some normality in our house for all of our sakes and try and laugh several times a day - I know she is right but it ain't half difficult at the moment.

 

Thanks again everyone

 

 

Stella Is that a sort of smile?!!!

[stressedmumto2]

Aw Stella <'> I am so glad things have turned out well and that you all will be getting the support you need. Very hard isn't it when your children want friends who are somewhat inappropriate!!

 

Anyway congrats on a good result, although AJ has a criminal record he wil be getting some support. I hope things inprove and start to calm down for all of you <'> <'>

[Clare63]

Oh my goodness what a day !.... you must feel totally exhausted and numb.

 

Good news that AJ is finally going to get some help and support, hopefully it will open new doors and experiences for him.

 

You certainly deserve some "normality" here's hoping that it finally comes, well a bit of peace and calm anyway.

 

<'> <'> <'>

 

Clare x x x

[Suze]

Just wanted to send you some best wishes, sounds like its been a horrid roller coaster, the youth justice officer sounds like she might be able to access some help for him and you, good luck, suzex

[Enid]

Stella, these blumming kids, good job we love em <'> Enid

[NickyB]

Stella <'>

 

I'm soooo pleased he'll be getting some support

 

You must all be completely shattered. I hope you manage to regain some 'normality' (whatever that is )

 

Take care of yourself and have some smiles on me :D :D

[Kathryn]

Hope you enjoyed that curry Stella, well deserved, and I hope life settles down a bit for you all. <'>

 

K x

[warrenpenalver]

Glad hes finally getting support now. What i find absolutely shocking is that for your child to get the support he desperately needs, he had to go to court!!! Shows plainly how the resources DO exist and that camhs/SS etc are just incompetant in many cases.

 

I wouldnt worry too much about the criminal record as he will be protected in the future by the Rahabilitation of Offenders Act so its only likely to effect his first few years in the workplace and if he is working for a disability friendly employer then chances are they will be understanding of the situation surrounding his younger crimes. Theres a LOT of people with criminal records from teen year bad behaviour so generally as he gets older people will overlook it more.

 

The important thing is he gets the support now so he doesnt continue to offend.

[Elouise]

Stella,

 

I am so glad that someone is offering AJ something positive to help him.

I also hope the supervision order gives him the space he needs to think a bit about what he would like to get out of life and more constructive ways of dealing with life.

Sadly teens with ADHD and ASD do tend to end up in the youth justice service thanks to the mix of poor social skills and risk taking. Unlike SS they have some funding to offer help. {got to love budget restraints!]

 

IF I have remembered correctly a supervison order is kind of halfway as it allows the youth justice to offer support to a kid whose struggling but who is not really a harded criminal. The idea is to give them one last big chance to get thier lives on track rather than end up being eaten alive in the adult system.

 

Warrenpenalver- it is not that SS and CAHMS are incompetant it is just that child services are governed by thier own policies, their own very limited budgets and remain seperate agencies, youth justice is seperate too so unlike adult services that offer a combeined Mental health SS package you have to fight each individual service for what your kid needs.

CAHMS tends to only be able to offer drugs for ADHD, SS can only offer for those most at risk of being harmed rather than causing harm and youth justice is the one who was goiven the funding.

What is needed is a parity of services and better communication and a policy of interagency working together...and whilst I am dreaming....*sighs*

 

[Stella63]

Eloise

 

You have absolutely hit the nail on the head!!!

 

And when we are in this utopia can someone arrange for me to have free vodka on the NHS please?!!!

 

Stella xx