Speech and language Therapist and Review

[admum]

Help! Son is 9. Has dx of adhd, dyspraxia and aspergers. Attends small special school and gets weekly OT and until v recently SALT. He has a statement providing for SALT but they have stopped and didnt tell us until this week although report in March. Just got SAlt report from school SALT ( nb not a special autism school) and salt says that no social skills probs!" This is so wrong. They have stopped social skills lessons and she says no longer needs SALT. We won on costings at tribunal and review is coming up. Hes in year 5 and review is to look at provision necessary in secondary. Our ed psych told us last year that she didnt rate this SALT and in fact we had an indep SALT report which recommended more help than this SALt recommended and so at tribunal, school only supported their SALT so although won the SALt was reduced to just social skills. I know that this SALT is wrong. She says he has good eye contact! This is rubbish. Yes on a good day in the right environment he can do it. But stressed or in other settings cant and gets more and more autistic in his behaviour. She only sees him in a structured setting in a classroom. He has been ill with headaches and hates playtime as excluded from playing football etc but she writes that has friends - who? Only last night he sat at the table rocking and humming something that he does increasingly - didnt used to as much. Hes a bright kid and on first appearances on a good day looks NT but when stressed ! This SALT is supposed to be on our side for god sake - its like saying to the lea that the autism dx is wrong ! Im so annoyed i could explode - He was dx by a leading specialist centre and seen by many professionals - how can they be wrong and her right? She has assessed him as having no language difficulties - yes ok hes bright but she doesnt accept that he has literal probs etc Her whole report appears to be an attempt to undermine his dx. I dont know where to stat. Do I get a updated indep salt assessment to see if shes wrong. She claims autism experience but our ed pschy disagreed last time with her report and found language difficulties which this SALt denies! On review can I say that we have our own evidence and insist they look at that? Can a SALT be wrong, could she be overlooking his difficulties? Any advice please.

[oracle]

Last Question first - Can a SALT be wrong? YES of course they can. First of all is she a specific ASD SALT. There are different kinds of SALT's and only a few of them specalise in ASD. So does this one?

 

I do not think that they can just stop something that is written into a Statement. Was the SALT quantified and specified in the Statement? Or was it just vauage as in the SALT is already part of the school set up so he will benefit from that?

 

What has this SALT based her assessments on? How many times as she seen him to come to these conclusions? I know that I am asking a lot of questions but you should be asking these questions too.

 

I think that the give a way line in your post is that he is in year five with a review coming up, and that this is needed to look at the provision that will be needed in Secondary School. In our area we no longer have SALT's working in our Secondary Schools. They can no longer provide the service because they do not have the SALT's. I fear that this could be why they are now saying that your son no longer requires SALT or Social Skills. I know that SALT is meant to be on your side but more and more they appear to work hand in glove with LEA's.

 

I would certainly speak to IPSEA about this and asap. You want to know what you need to do now and for the review.

 

Carole

 

PS Nellie can probably answer this one much better than I can.

[nellie]

PS Nellie can probably answer this one much better than I can.

 

I'm not sure she can. I am a bit confused by Social Skills provision being under S&L.

 

If S&L provision is specified in part 3 of your sons statement then the LEA have a legal duty to provide it. The LEA would need evidence to prove that your son no longer needs this provision before altering the statement.

 

Do you know when they stopped the S&L provision. You would have reason to complain about this.

 

Can a SALT be wrong?

Yes, they can, all professionals can get it wrong. You could challenge her.

 

I agree with Carole, you should seek advice from IPSEA or NAS education advocacy.

 

Try not to worry.

 

Nellie <'>

[admum]

Thanks Carole and Nellie. Salt is quantified as being a social skills session. We didnt get language Salt ie looking at literal interpretations as the school SAlt didnt support what our independent one said. This is a private special school and hence why im concerned. The school specialise in Dyslexia and Dyspraxia ( he has dyspraxia and adhd as well). Im not sure if she is asd qualified - how do I check? Think Salt stopped in March but not sure as know one has told us, just report says no longer needed review in a year. Even when in state school was getting SALT. Ill call IPSEA. Im thinking of getting our own asessment.

[oracle]

I would like to check this out with my friend - the one who runs the local group with me. She is really the brains of the outfit. I can't do this until Monday as she has company this weekend. Would that be ok?

 

As for checking about the SALT - I would ask. I knw that we have specalist SALT's in our area but only two or three. It's worth checking.

 

Carole

[admum]

Have spoken to Nas who were brilliant. They have told me to look at the ASLTIP website but it says areas of specialism but of course no way of knowing - experience of high functioning must be relevant. Am phoning around to see who has experience. He has a real problem with facial expression. Should he be getting that as part of his package? We bought those CDs but even if has no language disorder as she suggests he still has a communication problems. I cant get over the comment that "as usually goes hand in hand with a deficit in reading comprehension related to acuracy skills" Ive just notoiced that she has looked at an old report and not the most recent ed psch report which said there was a language disorder. Have just talked to her ie SALT. I think im going mad. She said well he only has mild Aspergers! Really so why was he rocking and humming the other night. Why does he say inappropriate things. She only ses him in school in a structured environment. She has been told by his teacher that is grammar school material - when HIs HT told me 6 months ago to forget entering him for any entrance exams as would be too stressful for him! She has him down as going to uni! When his teacher told me that would never catch up with Maths and no point giving instensive help. She was adamant that As kids do not have high levels of comprehension in language. Her report says no concern re socail skills - but she says that doesnt mean that - god shes a slt is she incapable of saying what she means- I asked her if she doesnt accept the dx and she kept saying how mild he is !

[oracle]

There is no such thing as mild AS or mild ASD. If you fit the criteria for a dx then you have the full triad of impairments. What it can however mean, is that some people with AS will have great difficulty in some areas that others don't and visa versa. Hope that makes sense? But if he has the dx, and he has, then he has a social and communication problem which impacts on his life to whatever degree. The degree, I believe, is often determined by the amount of suuport and structure that a child is receiving in school. If the support is OK then the AS may well 'appear' to be mild and not giving too many problems. But if the support and structure or lacking then the AS will present more problems. Again I hope that this makes sense? The support must include helping the child to understand and make sense of the things that most kids take learn without trying. Like how to 'be' with other people and what is expected of you with out being told?

 

The fact that he is now humming and rocking suggests that he is stressed and not coping too well. I have long said that many of our young people have the ability to go onto Uni and do well - the thing that often stops this from happening is the total lack of social skills and knowing how they are supposed to act in this environment. The stress and worrying if they 'can' make it usually leads them to fail.How will they learn if they pull the plug on social skills training? The HT must realise that your son 'could' do well but the stress factor would be just too much for him.

 

I don't think that you are going mad but they could be as they are way of target here. To the point that it makes you wonder if they are talking about the right child?

 

Carole

[admum]

Thanks Carole. I made the same comment re no such thing as mild. She just kept talking about the spectrum. She did at the end accept that what the school was saying to her didnt accord with what they are telling me. I didnt appreciate that I can submit info to say she is wrong just like parental advice. I feel a bit calmer now and will start drafting a document about his needs. She did accept that hasnt ever considered facial expression but only beacuse not mentioned in previous SLT reports - but I pointed out that the hospital reports make a big issue of it and she said well they werent SLTs! No there a leading UK team- are they making it up ? He needs help as that is part of his communication dificulties. She did admit that have stopped SLT but because review is coming up- I pointed out that NAs had told me not allowed as in statement. Im sure shes well meanng. She kept saying I should be pleased at the fantastic progress he has made- I would be if it were real! She does claim Aspergers experience. We have no choice but to get our own report.

[Helen]

Have spoken to Nas who were brilliant. They have told me to look at the ASLTIP website but it says areas of specialism but of course no way of knowing

You could try phoning The Royal College of Speech and Language Therapists, explain that you want confirmation details i.e. the credentials/area of expertise of a particular therapist. Try not to diss the SALTherapist during your conversation...

 

http://www.patient.co.uk/showdoc/26740260/

[Helen]

Admum,

 

I think you're going to have to go through the painstaking task of writing down everything that the SALT has said to you, I think you'll have to provide a contradictory response for each of her comments. If you don't challenge her comments it will be as though you are accepting her opinion about your son. Provide all your responses in bold.

 

The task of implementing a social skills programme is usually delegated to the Senco or to the SEN support teacher or even to an LSA. A SALT had been allocated to implement your son?s social skills programme ? you can use this fact to your advantage in an argument, as not every child who has SALT problems receives this 'high level category of support' (I'm only referring to her status as a SALT). You need to focus on the fact that there was a definite need for the intervention of a SALT, otherwise this high level of support wouldn?t have been authorised in the first place.

This SALT is supposed to be on our side for god sake

Your SALT is on the side of the person(s) who pays her wages - I wouldn't trust my son's SALT as far as I could throw her.

Edited April 22, 2005 by Helen

[lsw146]

Haven't read all replies but have worked around SALTS and have an undx daughter (AS) and the comments of "the parents seem to have real problems but i can't see any,drive me mad. "she/he has all these autistic behaviours at home but when see them there is nothing wrong"AAARGHHH I have tried to communicate how jekyll and hyde profile and the sublties of AS behaviours can have a profound impact on the children but it often falls on deaf ears

Good Luck and keep pushing for a resolution

[admum]

Just an update. Had meeting with school HT and senco. They are really nice people but they are I think naive. They back SALT and will not get her to change report but have said that they accept he does have social skills probs - just he is much better now and doesnt need SLT as that it for children who are much worse. The idiom they relied on is in fact a proverb - so much for her skillls. I checked what idioms he knew and he knew none except pigs might fly - and that sonly because i have told him it so many times. Im not sure what is age appropriate but although hes 9 he has reading age of nearly 13 which they rely on to say thats why mild. They accepted that hes ok in their small calm environment but that in the o/s world he has diffs. Isnt that why he needs input? Is it normal for a 9 year old to make inappropraite comments on a busy city bus to sb sitting next to him? Doesnt that need help? Just because he can play their stuipid games in a small class setting they think he no longer needs input and other children are much worse in their langauge skills - they even claim he has good understanding of facial expression- . I get the feeling that its all a bit self congratulatory - havent we done a good job- yes but he still has problems! They do at lesat believe that still needs a small school with small class sizes as wont cope with social skills needed for a larger setting. They were v defensive about SALT and obviously felt that I had no right to question. I got v emotional as I feel that they are walking into a trap. If we won at tribunal on costings lea cld remove now and send back to mainstream as no longer needs salt? Can I object to them disclosing the report? Or do I just have to write our comments about report and show inaccuracies? At lesat they will support us through tribunal again.

[slt101]

Your SALT is on the side of the person(s) who pays her wages - I wouldn't trust my son's SALT as far as I could throw her.

And I am sure your SALT has many complementary things to say about you too.

[CarerQuie]

I'm wondering how the situation panned out?The SALT wants to discharge my son,with similar observations and I feel rather like you that she just doesn't 'get' it.

 

In our case,SALT is in part 6 of the statement,so it can be withdrawn quite easily.Although there is still plenty that I want worked on,the School are doing much of it anyway,so I'm tempted to let it go.xx

[Lesley]

Hi admum

Sounds like you're in exactly the same boat as me except you have a statement to challenge them on. They are not allowed to change that without good reason - I'd be asking for evidence through assessment results

My son has been in SEN pre-school for 2 years now going mainstream primary & they wont assess him

Their SLT says his language delay has caught up

The independent & specialist NHS SLT consultant from the Nuffield says he has a language disorder

They are disregarding the AS dx

They claim they have to decide how much weight to give the dx as the independents 'don't know the system' excuse me I thought it was about medical diagnosis

They say they want to wait and see how he gets on in mainstream as he's made so much progress

Yes he's made progress but what about the AS, ADHD, S&L disorder that hasn't gone away?

Tribunal Oct

 

Lx