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      Depression, Mental Health and Crisis Support   06/04/2017

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westie

Organisational Skills - ADHD???

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Kathryn   

Can't find your link Sally but - executive function disorder??? Who coined that one and what's the point? :wacko:

 

Executive functioning involves all the higher level tasks that the human brain does - among many other things: planning, adapting, organising, anticipating, monitoring the environment and adjusting behaviour accordingly.

 

People with ASD have problems at various levels with executive functioning. But so do people with dementia, head injury and many other conditions, so to list it as a separate disorder is surely misleading and not particularly helpful - it's a symptom of something, not a condition, and treatment will surely depend on the cause?

 

K x

Edited by Kathryn

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My son (age 10, diagnosed PDA) has over last few months improved so much in terms of reduction in aggressive behaviour, controlling his temper more and behaving better in school and he seems to be much happier nowadays. A number of things may have contributed to this (new teacher, mum at home now, some work at home relating to anger management, behaviour chart at school - not needed now ) WE are SO pleased with this (and as ever hoping that it continues!)

 

However I do have some other concerns about things which I am not sure are PDA/ ASD related or if its something else as well (ADHD?) .I have listed a number of things about him below (would say they are centered around organisation, think some points may also fall under "executive functioning") and I wonder if any others have noticed similar traits in their PDA children/ themselves?

 

1)I have to prompt him to get dressed, and remind him to wash/ brush teeth each morning or evening.

 

2) He often rushes out of the door in a morning forgetting his lunch/ bag/ coat/ pe kit and myself to walk him there - he is focused on going to school but forgets all the things he will need in the day

 

3)If you speak to him it often appears he is not listening.

 

4) He does not sit still even when on pc or watching tv he constantly fidgets. He is same in school and the teacher overlooks a lot of it if it is not disrupting the others too much (I think if she pulled him up every time he would have been banned from the classroom. I have seen this for myself as I go in to help the children in the class once a week)

 

5) He takes off his coat/ shoes/ any other clothing he does not want to wear as soon as he walks in to the door and drops it on the floor and goes off to do whatever. This is same whatever he is doing, as soon as he loses interest it is abandoned.

 

6) He loses money, and other things that you would think are important to him

 

7) His bedroom is very untidy

 

If you ask him to look for something he can never find it even when its under his nose, and he appears to have no idea on how to make a logical plan to start searching for it.

 

9) After much effort on both our parts homework that he does finish often does not get handed in (and I have to stand over him and help him to make sense of it and keep him focused on finishing - I know the reluctance to do it is part of PDA)

 

10) He often leaves items at school such as PE bag, homework, shoes.

 

11) His mind is often focused on his obsessions (at the minute army, lego, bionicles and Bakuman) rather than what he needs to do

 

12) He is just starting to get the hang of telling the time

 

13) If he wants your attention he will be really obvious in your face no matter what you are doing and he often puts his hand up or shout out when he does not know the answer to a question

 

Part of his objectives on his statement are to work on these skills at home and school, but I do not have any bright ideas as to how (other than telling him each time, and to be honest I am getting fed up of hearing my own voice ). I have stuck up visual charts for weekday morning and evening routines - one of each in his bedroom and also the morning one in the kitchen, so he sees it before he runs out on me for school. Can anyone help with other ideas that do not involve so much verbal prompting/ reminding from me or the teacher?? Do you think more visual aids will help or will he just learn to ignore them?? Any books you can recommend?

Is it worth pursuing an assessment for ADHD? Would medication help with these things or are the other strategies enough in themselves to work therefore meaning a formal diagnosis not necessary to help him... Am worried about how he will cope in secondary school, and if he cant his behaviour will deteriorate again...

When we last saw the paediatrician we discussed the fact that our 10 year old seems so disorganised, in similar ways to yours. She said very clearly that boys will be boys and that at 10 most of them are seriously disorganised. Having spoken to parents of NT boys aged 10 I can confirm that theirs are just as bad as mine. That might reassure you!

Mel

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westie   

The other day this happened and the bizareness of it was a real shock to us, perhaps you may not think so, and apologies if I have posted this before on here:

on thursday J's friend came round for a couple of hours (both are obsessed by computers, both on spectrum so they can clash but generally get on rather well) Because it was raining I took him home in car at about 5.45 as he had no coat - its about 5 mins walk to his house, but across 3 roads.

I left both kids at home with dad. And after I dropped his friend off I called in my niece's, who lives straight across the road from J's friend to look at her new kitchen. I had been there a few minutes when my mobile rang - it was J's friends mum who told me J had turned up at her door with no coat andbarefoot to return his friends mobile phone as he left it at our house, then J turned round and started walking back home (he must not have seen my car as it was directly across road which shows how one track mind he is). Now at this point I ran out of my nieces house, and could not see him anywhere so I got in car and drove home. I caught up with him on street near our house, soaking wet and indeed barefoot no coat and seemingly oblivious. Note: He is not allowed to go to his friends on his own because he has poor road sense, and he knows this and has never done anything like this before, though has ran off in temper etc.

His need to return the phone was all that was in his mind and he just had to run out and take it.

His dad thought he was upstairs in his bedroon, he had not said anything to him about leaving the house or about his friend leaving the phone. luckily J's young brother was too busy watching tv to follow.....

 

J has no road sense, he runs off all the time and tries to cross at bottom of street, I have seen him two times try to cross directly behind bin wagon and nearly get run over by car coming down that he could not see - I walk him to school or at least try but he runs off all the time in front and recently I have seen him cross at bottom without looking both ways, he doesnt realise cars can come out of drives and get him, he walks on edge of kerbs, pushes people wherever they are near road or whatever (playing not to deliberately hurt them, although this is danger if he pushes them onto road)

 

When we went out on his birthday for a walk with his aunty to a wildlife park he kept trying to climb and balance on the thin metal barriers that act as barrier between road and pedestrians. He was told each time but once he saw another one he HAD to climb onto it. Last time he did it a wagon passed on road (passed within about 2 feet from him) at time he had got on it and if he had overbalanced and fell(he doesnt have good balance/ co-ordination so this is real possibility) he would have been under the wheels of a 40ton wagon, and likely dead. Its like he has tunnel vision and is focused only on whats in his head and he has to act on it. Once walking back from taekwondo he fell in snow and a group of older teenage boys across the road laughed at him so he started launching snownballs at them although he had no idea who they were. I am sure they would have done something had I not been with him.

 

I suppose I did not list these in first post really but this is really worrying aspect and I wrote this in letter to doctors as this type of stuff also fits in with ADHD type behaviour from what I have read. The other stuff I posted at start of thread will I am sure cause him problems at secondary school, and I think if he cant cope he will slip back into aggression. Also he puts himself and others in danger by his inattention and fixation on whatever is in his mind, and his need to act on it without thinking it through.

 

Sorry I do seem so negative in my posts on this thread about J, he does have positive qualities and has done great recently in trying to control his anger.

 

I stopped with relatives over the hols and their teenager's bedrooms (16 and 18) were a LOT worse than J's!

 

I know that some of these things are common in kids this age, but not all of them together to that degree?? I sure many ASD kids do share these traits and point is when does it move from "just" ASD to ASD plus ??????? - I read about dyspraxia and some things fit but its all so overlapping that I just getting more confused so hope that someone at CAMHS will see us and answer our questions!

 

Surely kids don't normally take off out of house without telling anyone what he was doing and why, barefoot, with no coat on just trousers and thin cotton top, and walk in rain to somewhere they not allowed to go alone to return a phone that no one had missed and which could have been returned later with no harm done????? Even his dad was shocked and surprised and that says something :huh:

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Sally44   

No I don't have anymore information about it. I just found this website very useful.

From what I have read about it it can be a separate diagnosis. When discussing some of my sons difficulties with professionals I did question about EFD, and was told that many of the 'symptoms' of EFD are common amongst other disorders. But the thing is that those with ASDs, for example, don't all have problems with executive functions. But there are a few skills in that list that I know my son struggles with, especially time. Yet other children with an ASD may have a very good, and even rigid understanding of time. But I just thought it was very interesting, and certainly made some aspects of my sons difficulties easier to understand.

I don't believe EFD has to have involved some kind of brain trauma, although that maybe a possibility. But my understanding is that EFD is developmental. This site says that the only way to 'test' executive functions is through functional testing of the various skills.

I also think that problems with executive functions are probably going to show themselves more as the child gets older because they involve higher skill levels.

There also seems to be alot of cross over of symptoms of EFD and other disorders, but that seems relatively common with alot of disorders.

I just thought I'd put it out there for information and discussion purposes.

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Sally44   
Can't find your link Sally but - executive function disorder??? Who coined that one and what's the point? :wacko:

 

Executive functioning involves all the higher level tasks that the human brain does - among many other things: planning, adapting, organising, anticipating, monitoring the environment and adjusting behaviour accordingly.

 

People with ASD have problems at various levels with executive functioning. But so do people with dementia, head injury and many other conditions, so to list it as a separate disorder is surely misleading and not particularly helpful - it's a symptom of something, not a condition, and treatment will surely depend on the cause?

 

K x

 

My purpose in posting about EFD is that many don't know what you have posted and therefore will see that their child has problems with some higher level tasks and won't know what that is all about. They won't know or assume it is to do with ASD/ADHD or anything else because you don't see or hear about executive functions unless you are reading up about it. And most parents will say that on diagnosis they received no information at all about anything. It is just something to read, to inform people. So they can go to their childs paediatrician (or any other professional) and say 'Johnny does xxxx and I have read about executive functions - is that what this is?' And by identifying the difficulty, maybe the paediatrician will make recommendations or a referal about that particular difficulty and maybe something positive will come out of it. Not every child has difficulties with executive functions, and those that do may have difficulties with different ones. But the problems they cause for the individual are quite major. Without knowledge we are all groping in the dark.

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Sally44   
The other day this happened and the bizareness of it was a real shock to us, perhaps you may not think so, and apologies if I have posted this before on here:

on thursday J's friend came round for a couple of hours (both are obsessed by computers, both on spectrum so they can clash but generally get on rather well) Because it was raining I took him home in car at about 5.45 as he had no coat - its about 5 mins walk to his house, but across 3 roads.

I left both kids at home with dad. And after I dropped his friend off I called in my niece's, who lives straight across the road from J's friend to look at her new kitchen. I had been there a few minutes when my mobile rang - it was J's friends mum who told me J had turned up at her door with no coat andbarefoot to return his friends mobile phone as he left it at our house, then J turned round and started walking back home (he must not have seen my car as it was directly across road which shows how one track mind he is). Now at this point I ran out of my nieces house, and could not see him anywhere so I got in car and drove home. I caught up with him on street near our house, soaking wet and indeed barefoot no coat and seemingly oblivious. Note: He is not allowed to go to his friends on his own because he has poor road sense, and he knows this and has never done anything like this before, though has ran off in temper etc.

His need to return the phone was all that was in his mind and he just had to run out and take it.

His dad thought he was upstairs in his bedroon, he had not said anything to him about leaving the house or about his friend leaving the phone. luckily J's young brother was too busy watching tv to follow.....

 

J has no road sense, he runs off all the time and tries to cross at bottom of street, I have seen him two times try to cross directly behind bin wagon and nearly get run over by car coming down that he could not see - I walk him to school or at least try but he runs off all the time in front and recently I have seen him cross at bottom without looking both ways, he doesnt realise cars can come out of drives and get him, he walks on edge of kerbs, pushes people wherever they are near road or whatever (playing not to deliberately hurt them, although this is danger if he pushes them onto road)

 

When we went out on his birthday for a walk with his aunty to a wildlife park he kept trying to climb and balance on the thin metal barriers that act as barrier between road and pedestrians. He was told each time but once he saw another one he HAD to climb onto it. Last time he did it a wagon passed on road (passed within about 2 feet from him) at time he had got on it and if he had overbalanced and fell(he doesnt have good balance/ co-ordination so this is real possibility) he would have been under the wheels of a 40ton wagon, and likely dead. Its like he has tunnel vision and is focused only on whats in his head and he has to act on it. Once walking back from taekwondo he fell in snow and a group of older teenage boys across the road laughed at him so he started launching snownballs at them although he had no idea who they were. I am sure they would have done something had I not been with him.

 

I suppose I did not list these in first post really but this is really worrying aspect and I wrote this in letter to doctors as this type of stuff also fits in with ADHD type behaviour from what I have read. The other stuff I posted at start of thread will I am sure cause him problems at secondary school, and I think if he cant cope he will slip back into aggression. Also he puts himself and others in danger by his inattention and fixation on whatever is in his mind, and his need to act on it without thinking it through.

 

Sorry I do seem so negative in my posts on this thread about J, he does have positive qualities and has done great recently in trying to control his anger.

 

I stopped with relatives over the hols and their teenager's bedrooms (16 and 18) were a LOT worse than J's!

 

I know that some of these things are common in kids this age, but not all of them together to that degree?? I sure many ASD kids do share these traits and point is when does it move from "just" ASD to ASD plus ??????? - I read about dyspraxia and some things fit but its all so overlapping that I just getting more confused so hope that someone at CAMHS will see us and answer our questions!

 

Surely kids don't normally take off out of house without telling anyone what he was doing and why, barefoot, with no coat on just trousers and thin cotton top, and walk in rain to somewhere they not allowed to go alone to return a phone that no one had missed and which could have been returned later with no harm done????? Even his dad was shocked and surprised and that says something :huh:

 

No, my son would do that. He recently came upstairs to tell me 'sorry'. When I asked him what he was 'sorry' for, he said he wanted to go and say hello to the neighbours, but because the front door was locked he went down the garden and over the wall at the bottom. He knocked on their door, but no-one answered. When he went into the garden the dog followed him and went through the hedge into the neighbours garden and then out onto the road. So my son had gone into the road to retrieve the dog (OMG!!), but couldn't. So he returned over the wall and came to say 'sorry' for letting the dog out!! No idea why he had the sudden urge to go visiting. It has never happened before or since.

He has frequently put himself in danger from drowning, suffocating. Only last week we went swimming and he walked out of the changing rooms and jumped in the deep end. He can't swim. The attendant had to rescue him. He's never done that before either.

We have to keep all doors and windows locked. He has taken my keys, unlocked the door (after standing on a chair) and started the car engine when he was 3 years old!

He has decided to go visit his grandparents before and we've just been lucky in seeing him heading down the drive.

My son has 'impulsiveness' as part of his 'behaviours', but no additional diagnosis at this stage. He doesn't always predict the outcome of his actions. Putting things down the plugholes seems to be a favourite at the moment.

Any disorder is a bunch of behaviours and you need enough of them to get a diagnosis. It is quite possible to have some behaviours from many disorders, but not enough of any of them to get a full blown diagnosis of anything.

This is only my personal opinion, but if my child was showing additional behaviours associated with another diagnosis I would discuss it with professionals. Depending on how significant those other behaviours were I might want those behaviours mentioned - so that everyone involved with my son was aware that it was ASD plus. I have been told by professionals that these types of difficulties are typical of being on the spectrum, and that might be true. But the EP or AAT know that. But it is the everyday people (usually in school) in contact with the child that need to know the specific difficulties. If they don't know the difficulties they aren't going to meet the need or may interpret the behaviour as being naughty.

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Kathryn   
My purpose in posting about EFD is that many don't know what you have posted and therefore will see that their child has problems with some higher level tasks and won't know what that is all about. They won't know or assume it is to do with ASD/ADHD or anything else because you don't see or hear about executive functions unless you are reading up about it. And most parents will say that on diagnosis they received no information at all about anything. It is just something to read, to inform people. So they can go to their childs paediatrician (or any other professional) and say 'Johnny does xxxx and I have read about executive functions - is that what this is?' And by identifying the difficulty, maybe the paediatrician will make recommendations or a referal about that particular difficulty and maybe something positive will come out of it. Not every child has difficulties with executive functions, and those that do may have difficulties with different ones. But the problems they cause for the individual are quite major. Without knowledge we are all groping in the dark.

 

 

Sorry Sally I'm not quite sure what point you're making here.

 

I can't see Executive Function Disorder listed anywhere at all. I doubt that it is widely recognised as a separate disorder so I doubt whether many parents will have heard of it, let alone read up on it. I don't think there is any point in parents pursung this route at all - it's hard enough trying to get a dx of ASD. All children with ASD will have some trouble with some executive functions - it's part of ASD- as I said in my previous post. Any professional who knows about AS will understand that.

 

 

K x

 

 

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bid   

OK, wading in wearing my riot gear now! :)

 

In the 15 years since my son was first diagnosed with special needs there seems to have been almost an explosion of ever more specific diagnoses (ODD, PDA, EFD etc). Whenever I have a quick look I think they just sounds like aspects of autism and way back then they would have been recognised as such. I know that if my son was little now, he would definitely have more initials after his name!

 

BUT, and I'm echoing my line manager here who is a paediatric health care specialist...you end up with a child with a huge list of diagnoses at the risk, IMO, of no longer focusing on the child. The child really can get lost under the labels.

 

I wonder if there is a newish trend of dissecting the child's difficulties and giving a clutch of diagnoses rather than taking each child as an individual on the spectrum?

 

Well, I know this opinion won't be popular! :ph34r:

 

Bid :)

Edited by bid

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Sally44   

I'm not arguing for a separate diagnosis!

I'm just trying to put some information about executive functions because the original post appears to be talking about difficulties I would associate with executive function difficulties and doesn't appear to know about executive functions.

Executive functions can be part of many disorders.

The website I mentioned is very useful in explaining what the difficulties are and makes suggestions on how those difficulties could be supported.

Presently the diagnostic criteria for ADHD doesn't seem to mention executive functions. Indeed there used to be the opinion that ADHD behaviours have to have surfaced by the age of 7 and that many grow out of it as adults. Executive functions however run in the opposite direction ie. they are higher brain function levels and therefore difficulties may not become apparent until after the age of 7 and are likely to have an increasing affect on the child as it struggles with cognitive functions into adulthood.

A year ago I don't think I, or others, involved with my son would have said, yes he fits the criteria for ADHD. But if I bring in executive functions difficulties that are becoming more and more obvious, then at some point that might be something we have to consider. There are some similarities between ASDs and ADHD. Some parents find it very hard to get a dual diagnosis because of that.

And some executive function difficulties would fall under autism as well.

And for those 'in the know', there may be no need to even mention executive functions because they know all about them. But for a teacher or teaching assistant or parent who has a child with these difficulties they don't automatically know what is causing it or how to support the child.

For example, in the first SALT report about my child when he was around 5 years old it said 'xxxx repeats words and phrases from TV or DVDs'. His school at that time had no idea that this meant echolalia, or understood the language, learning and social implications of this. Infact on his IEP target it stated that they would check my son understood what he should be doing by getting him to repeat back what they had said! So I asked the SALT to explain to school what it was and what that meant. And the headmistress phoned me up and apologised to me because it became immediately obvious to her that some things they were doing were not appropriate for my son. She also found it very interesting, and had had no idea previously about echolalia. We do assume our teaching staff know about all these things, but how can they? Most have no training about either autism or ADHD.

Every one of us lives the diagnosis 24/7, and once you get the diagnosis you start to find out as much as you can. We are motivated to learn about our children. A teacher may get sent on a training day once a year. I am not disrespecting teachers. But the expertise and knowledge needed to understand and teach children with these complex disorders is not easy, especially when every child is presenting differently. And parents who are not given any information at diagnosis stage can find it very difficult to know where to start finding out about the diagnosis and how it affects their child.

Since a year ago, I can see that there is more about executive functions and ADHD. In the same way that there is more about sensory integration and autism. But neither are requirements under the diagnostic criteria at the moment.

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Karen A   

Hi.Westie.I have checked the link and am still no wiser.The article describes executive dysfuncion.There are no details regarding executive function disoder. :wacko: Karen.

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westie   
OK, wading in wearing my riot gear now! :)

 

In the 15 years since my son was first diagnosed with special needs there seems to have been almost an explosion of ever more specific diagnoses (ODD, PDA, EFD etc). Whenever I have a quick look I think they just sounds like aspects of autism and way back then they would have been recognised as such. I know that if my son was little now, he would definitely have more initials after his name!

 

BUT, and I'm echoing my line manager here who is a paediatric health care specialist...you end up with a child with a huge list of diagnoses at the risk, IMO, of no longer focusing on the child. The child really can get lost under the labels.

 

I wonder if there is a newish trend of dissecting the child's difficulties and giving a clutch of diagnoses rather than taking each child as an individual on the spectrum?

 

Well, I know this opinion won't be popular! :ph34r:

 

 

Bid :)

 

Just to clarify, its not that I want another "label" to put after his name, I want just an understanding of how to help him, and by raising the issues I see with the GP and school then at least it gets discussed and hopefully they suggest some actions that we can take with or without an additional label and they will be aware of what he does find difficult and maybe help him or at least take that into consideration. (at present we do not see anyone from CAMHS or anywhere else to get advice from) and school are perhaps not seeing it as much as we are so are not pushing but I do know he will not cope if he is not supported in secondary, or given help from now to be able to help himself.

 

What would your line manager recommend/ do if a child shows signs from a number of disorders, (and perhaps there is not enough "ticks in boxes" to be able to diagnose any of them, or only one for definite). Would they

1) diagnose none - and risk parents/ teachers getting none/very little help and input from professionals as a result as there is seen to be nothing wrong)

2) diagnose one thing only (and just treat that ignoring other things),

3) or something else?

In this scenario these things are seen by school and home, and I am assuming there are not "parenting issues" at fault!!!

 

Of course an incorrect label(s)/ help can as damaging as no label/ help, so I do understand that you have to be careful.

 

Just my opinion specifically about PDA (not other labels/ multiple labels for same child) When my eldest was first assessed I and professionals looked as ASD/ AS (this assessment was from age 3 to almost 5 and involved multidisciplinary assessment groups, attending special nursery, being observed at playschools/ home and still no answers ,though others still thought ASD) you could tick some parts of the ASD/ AS diagnostic criteria but there were not enough for a diagnosis. I thought personally he had traits but it did not sit entirely comfortable as described in the DSMIV criteria

 

Alternatively, when the professional went through the list for PDA it was like it had been written for him. I had never heard or read up on it before this professional mentioned it (they had been part of the team assessing him since age 3 but had recently attended some training about PDA in the centre at Nottingham which is why it was only brought up then). I do personally think it is part of the ASD spectrum (and if you read the new factsheet on the NAS website you may see their opinion of PDA is different to what it used to be), as is Asperger Syndrome and would you say that should be called ASD, and not recognised/ treated as slightly different????

 

Of course all kids (even with same diagnosis) are of course different anyway and to me the label acts as a guideline towards things which might work rather that flailing around on your own with no idea what to do, and it also allows you to find other parents who may be experiencing similar things so that you can share and offload to someone who understands (like this forum does for us!).

 

There was an interesting article in the autumn 2008 edition of the NAS "communication" magazine, called diagnosing difference by Dr Stephen Shore has anyone read this?

Edited by westie

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Karen A   
Just to clarify, its not that I want another "label" to put after his name, I want just an understanding of how to help him, and by raising the issues I see with the GP and school then at least it gets discussed and hopefully they suggest some actions that we can take with or without an additional label and they will be aware of what he does find difficult and maybe help him or at least take that into consideration. (at present we do not see anyone from CAMHS or anywhere else to get advice from) and school are perhaps not seeing it as much as we are so are not pushing but I do know he will not cope if he is not supported in secondary, or given help from now to be able to help himself.

 

What would your line manager recommend/ do if a child shows signs from a number of disorders, (and perhaps there is not enough "ticks in boxes" to be able to diagnose any of them, or only one for definite). Would they

1) diagnose none - and risk parents/ teachers getting none/very little help and input from professionals as a result as there is seen to be nothing wrong)

2) diagnose one thing only (and just treat that ignoring other things),

3) or something else?

In this scenario these things are seen by school and home, and I am assuming there are not "parenting issues" at fault!!!

 

Of course an incorrect label(s)/ help can as damaging as no label/ help, so I do understand that you have to be careful.

 

Just my opinion specifically about PDA (not other labels/ multiple labels for same child) When my eldest was first assessed I and professionals looked as ASD/ AS (this assessment was from age 3 to almost 5 and involved multidisciplinary assessment groups, attending special nursery, being observed at playschools/ home and still no answers (though others still thought ASD) you could tick some parts of the ASD/ AS diagnostic criteria but there were not enough for a diagnosis.

 

Alternatively, when the professional went through the list for PDA it was like it had been written for him. I had never heard or read up on it before this professional mentioned it (they had been part of the team assessing him since age 3 but had recently attended some training about PDA in the centre at Nottingham which is why it was only brought up then). I do personally think it is part of the ASD spectrum (and if you read the new factsheet on the NAS website you may see their opinion of PDA is different to what it used to be), as is Asperger Syndrome and would you say that should be called ASD, and not recognised/ treated as slightly different????

 

Of course all kids (even with same diagnosis) are of course different anyway and to me the label acts as a guideline towards things which might work rather that flailing around on your own with no idea what to do, and it also allows you to find other parents who may be experiencing similar things so that you can share and offload to someone who understands (like this forum does for us!).

 

There was an interesting article in the autumn 2008 edition of the NAS "communication" magazine, called diagnosing difference by Dr Stephen Shore has anyone read this?

 

Hi Westie.

I am sorry but I do not intend to have another debate on this thread that is almost identical to the one I had elswhere on Friday.I made my views very clear.I see no point in repeating them to be honest.

I am sure others may wish to debate the issue.

I will find the other thread if you wish to read my views.

Just to say I don't have a line manager other than my husband. :) I am currently a fulltime carer.

I thought I should clarify.I have not discussed PDA anywhere.

The issue here is with executive dysfunction disorder which is not recognised as a condition anywhere as far as I have been able to establish.Karen.

 

Edited by Karen A

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westie   
Hi.Westie.I have checked the link and am still no wiser.The article describes executive dysfuncion.There are no details regarding executive function disoder. :wacko: Karen.

 

Hi, this is the article I think Sally pointed me to when she first replied in the thread, though I may be wrong and looking at something completely different! This article didnt suggest a separate condition but that these things can be associated with many different conditions like ADHD and ASD amongst other things......

 

I am not sure it is classed as a separate condition????? I cant find anything that clears this question up either, but it is interesting info.

Edited by westie

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Karen A   

Hi, this is the article I think Sally pointed me to when she first replied in the thread, though I may be wrong, it didnt suggest a separate condition but that these things can be associated with many different conditions like ADHD and ASD amongst other things......

 

I am not sure it is classed as a separate condition?????

 

Westie.I do not feel inclined to repeat a lengthy debate that I had on Friday on another thread .

I will find a link for you.You can read my views if you wish.Karen.

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westie   
Hi Westie.

I am sorry but I do not intend to have another debate on this thread that is almost identical to the one I had elswhere on Friday.I made my views very clear.I see no point in repeating them to be honest.

I am sure others may wish to debate the issue.

I will find the other thread if you wish to read my views.

Just to say I don't have a line manager other than my husband. :) I am currently a fulltime carer.Karen.

 

Karen, my reply was in response to Bid's reply on the thread, and she specifically mentioned a point of view of herself and her line manager. My questions are not intended to be offensive, but everyone is entitled to their opinion and I am just being brave enough to include mine for a change as I try if possible to not really state an opinion as I have seen some threads get a bit crazy, with people getting upset which is not my intention and I doubt it is intention of others but still misunderstanding occur. I would be very interested in reading your point of view about labels etc. if you want to point me in the direction of this other thread. I am also very interested to hear how professionals deal with this scenario, and bid being - i think??- on both sides as a parent and someone working in that field qualifies on that front.

 

 

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Karen A   

Westie.I should very clear that I am not debating whether PDA is a recognised diagnostic category within ASD.I honestly do not know.

My issue is with regard to Executive Function Disorder.Karen.

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Karen A   
Karen, my reply was in response to Bid's reply on the thread, and she specifically mentioned a point of view of herself and her line manager. My questions are not intended to be offensive, but everyone is entitled to their opinion and I am just being brave enough to include mine for a change as I try if possible to not really state an opinion as I have seen some threads get a bit crazy, with people getting upset which is not my intention and I doubt it is intention of others but still misunderstanding occur. I would be very interested in reading your point of view about labels etc. if you want to point me in the direction of this other thread. I am also very interested to hear how professionals deal with this scenario, and bid being - i think??- on both sides as a parent and someone working in that field qualifies on that front.

 

Sorry.I had just posted and as I had been involved in the debate I thought the post was intended for me.Now I have checked I realise it was posted for bid. :)

I was not intending to suggest that you are not entitled to an opinion. >:D<<'>

I will find the thread from Friday.Then you can read my views if you wish.I have to say they were not with regard to PDA. :)

I am sorry if I overreacted. It is the end of what feels like a long easter holiday.Karen.

Edited by Karen A

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westie   

ok hope that bid is not offended by the questions, or my comments. do you think I should change them before she sees?? :whistle:

 

 

ps would still like to read that other thread with your opinion about EFD, if you want to point me in right direction.

Edited by westie

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Karen A   

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.ph...=21021&st=0

My point on that thread was regarding the importance of having an ASD dx in order to access appropriate provision for ASD.

I am very concerned that if parents attempt to access provision by breaking down a diagnosis into various different difficulties with different labels they could then end up with no clear case to access specialist provision for ASD.If PDA is a recognised condition within ASD then that is a different issue.

However the issue of EFD and whether it is helpful is very similar.Too similar for me to wish to repeat myself.Karen.

Edited by Karen A

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westie   
Sorry.I had just posted and as I had been involved in the debate I thought the post was intended for me.Now I have checked I realise it was posted for bid. :)

I was not intending to suggest that you are not entitled to an opinion. >:D<<'>

I will find the thread from Friday.Then you can read my views if you wish.I have to say they were not with regard to PDA. :)

I am sorry if I overreacted. It is the end of what feels like a long easter holiday.Karen.

 

Its maybe me being a bit sensitive about it as I was not quite sure what I had said to offend. I know you not meaning I not entitled to opinion, this is another example of how it can all get a bit messy and why i try not to get posting my opinions - I hate arguing or feeling like I have upset someone (I would be terrible on a debating team I want to please everyone, and everyone to be happy!)

 

So I am sorry if I have upset you KarenA.

 

I am pleased that people are reading and replying to my queries as many things said have helped me with ideas to try etc.

 

By the way I also know Bid was not singling out or querying PDA in particular its just that it was listed and many others do have other views on its classification as a diagnosis on its own, including many professionals as well. I was just saying what I thought about PDA.

 

Edited by westie

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Karen A   
Its maybe me being a bit sensitive about it as I was not quite sure what I had said to offend. I know you not meaning I not entitled to opinion, this is another example of how it can all get a bit messy and why i try not to get posting my opinions - I hate arguing or feeling like I have upset someone (I would be terrible on a debating team I want to please everyone, and everyone to be happy!)

 

So I am sorry if I have upset you KarenA.

 

I am pleased that people are reading and replying to my queries as many things said have helped me with ideas to try etc.

 

By the way I also know Bid was not singling out or querying PDA in particular its just that it was listed and many others do have other views on its classification as a diagnosis on its own, including many professionals as well. I was just saying what I thought about PDA.

 

Sorry.It was me being a bit sensitive.You have not said anything to offend anyone.Please do not worry.I would hate you to feel you could not express an opinion. >:D<<'> Karen.

 

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westie   

Hi, I have read the other thread with your posts, and it is very interesting!

 

I am lucky in that for J he is statemented and has been since 4yrs (as he started full time school) for firstly emotional, bahavioural and social and secondary for ASD. As to content of statement it is a bit woolly in terms of actual provision to be given (no times, specifics really - to allow flexibility??) but it did describe his needs as we understood them at the time (2006) and really they do still remain as concerns its the other stuff that also needs to be recognised. It should be changed next year (after annual review at end of this year actually) to reflect change to secondary school, and hopefully the help he needs with regards the issues described on the thread will be addressed, as well as his other needs....

 

As my eldest has always had a statement when youngest was diagnosed I thought, "should he have one too?" He doesn't have the same level of behaviour issues as eldest, so doubt he would qualify tbh, but there are definite issues that need addressing and working on. (they give him some 1:1 for co-ordination he has low muscle tone and hyper mobile joints too - this is in nursery he only there for 1/2 days till sept.) If I feel he needs more help I will ask them whether they feel there is a need to apply and if not ensure that he does get some support - new head next year so hope they are as good as last one!!!

 

I was not aware that low level "needs" would not qualify you for statement even if across a number of areasThe whole statementing thing can get very complicated I have heard some tales about peoples battles to get needs recognised in school and feel lucky to have one for eldest.

Note being expelled from nursery at almost 3, and then trying two other playgroups before finding one where he managed to stay for a while even though behaviour challenges still there was something I would rather not have had him experience but feel this is reason why they perhaps did assessment with no protest, it was very clear from early on that he was going to struggle :tearful: .

Thanks for pointing me in direction to read,

Debbie

 

 

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Karen A   
Hi, I have read the other thread with your posts, and it is very interesting!

 

I am lucky in that for J he is statemented and has been since 4yrs (as he started full time school) for firstly emotional, bahavioural and social and secondary for ASD. As to content of statement it is a bit woolly in terms of actual provision to be given (no times, specifics really - to allow flexibility??) but it did describe his needs as we understood them at the time (2006) and really they do still remain as concerns its the other stuff that also needs to be recognised. It should be changed next year (after annual review at end of this year actually) to reflect change to secondary school, and hopefully the help he needs with regards the issues described on the thread will be addressed, as well as his other needs....

 

As my eldest has always had a statement when youngest was diagnosed I thought, "should he have one too?" He doesn't have the same level of behaviour issues as eldest, so doubt he would qualify tbh, but there are definite issues that need addressing and working on. (they give him some 1:1 for co-ordination he has low muscle tone and hyper mobile joints too - this is in nursery he only there for 1/2 days till sept.) If I feel he needs more help I will ask them whether they feel there is a need to apply and if not ensure that he does get some support - new head next year so hope they are as good as last one!!!

 

I was not aware that low level "needs" would not qualify you for statement even if across a number of areasThe whole statementing thing can get very complicated I have heard some tales about peoples battles to get needs recognised in school and feel lucky to have one for eldest.

Note being expelled from nursery at almost 3, and then trying two other playgroups before finding one where he managed to stay for a while even though behaviour challenges still there was something I would rather not have had him experience but feel this is reason why they perhaps did assessment with no protest, it was very clear from early on that he was going to struggle :tearful: .

Thanks for pointing me in direction to read,

Debbie

 

Glad you found it helpful.I am really very sorry that I did not do a good job of explaining better rather than upsetting you. >:D<<'> Karen.

 

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Karen A   
Hi, I have read the other thread with your posts, and it is very interesting!

 

I am lucky in that for J he is statemented and has been since 4yrs (as he started full time school) for firstly emotional, bahavioural and social and secondary for ASD. As to content of statement it is a bit woolly in terms of actual provision to be given (no times, specifics really - to allow flexibility??) but it did describe his needs as we understood them at the time (2006) and really they do still remain as concerns its the other stuff that also needs to be recognised. It should be changed next year (after annual review at end of this year actually) to reflect change to secondary school, and hopefully the help he needs with regards the issues described on the thread will be addressed, as well as his other needs....

 

As my eldest has always had a statement when youngest was diagnosed I thought, "should he have one too?" He doesn't have the same level of behaviour issues as eldest, so doubt he would qualify tbh, but there are definite issues that need addressing and working on. (they give him some 1:1 for co-ordination he has low muscle tone and hyper mobile joints too - this is in nursery he only there for 1/2 days till sept.) If I feel he needs more help I will ask them whether they feel there is a need to apply and if not ensure that he does get some support - new head next year so hope they are as good as last one!!!

 

I was not aware that low level "needs" would not qualify you for statement even if across a number of areasThe whole statementing thing can get very complicated I have heard some tales about peoples battles to get needs recognised in school and feel lucky to have one for eldest.

Note being expelled from nursery at almost 3, and then trying two other playgroups before finding one where he managed to stay for a while even though behaviour challenges still there was something I would rather not have had him experience but feel this is reason why they perhaps did assessment with no protest, it was very clear from early on that he was going to struggle :tearful: .

Thanks for pointing me in direction to read,

Debbie

 

Hi again.I would not put it as strongly as low level needs ''would not '' qualify you for a statement even across a number of areas.However it is certainly clear enough within the COP to say might not qualify you for a Statement.I certainly think if there is the possibility of demonstrating a need for support for Social Communication Difficulties then it is worth being clear that that is what is needed.The difficulty with using lower level needs to build up a case is that the need for support for Social Communication Difficulties may not be recognised or the LA may say that the needs are all low level and so can be supported without a Statement.Karen.

 

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westie   

you know lets just forget the whole upsetting thing, it was a big misunderstanding!

I have to go and put kids to bed now, first day back tomorrow and its going to be a bit of a shock for all of us I think, so am expecting protests (at least) in the morning.

Like you said earlier its the end of a long hol and it sets me on edge as well as most parents I imagine (not even trying to think about the summer)

Also doing this course and have loads to type up for it, and cleaning and washing to fetch in so really must tear myself away now,

enjoy the rest of the evening

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Karen A   
My son (age 10, diagnosed PDA) has over last few months improved so much in terms of reduction in aggressive behaviour, controlling his temper more and behaving better in school and he seems to be much happier nowadays. A number of things may have contributed to this (new teacher, mum at home now, some work at home relating to anger management, behaviour chart at school - not needed now ) WE are SO pleased with this (and as ever hoping that it continues!)

 

However I do have some other concerns about things which I am not sure are PDA/ ASD related or if its something else as well (ADHD?) .I have listed a number of things about him below (would say they are centered around organisation, think some points may also fall under "executive functioning") and I wonder if any others have noticed similar traits in their PDA children/ themselves?

 

1)I have to prompt him to get dressed, and remind him to wash/ brush teeth each morning or evening.

 

2) He often rushes out of the door in a morning forgetting his lunch/ bag/ coat/ pe kit and myself to walk him there - he is focused on going to school but forgets all the things he will need in the day

 

3)If you speak to him it often appears he is not listening.

 

4) He does not sit still even when on pc or watching tv he constantly fidgets. He is same in school and the teacher overlooks a lot of it if it is not disrupting the others too much (I think if she pulled him up every time he would have been banned from the classroom. I have seen this for myself as I go in to help the children in the class once a week)

 

5) He takes off his coat/ shoes/ any other clothing he does not want to wear as soon as he walks in to the door and drops it on the floor and goes off to do whatever. This is same whatever he is doing, as soon as he loses interest it is abandoned.

 

6) He loses money, and other things that you would think are important to him

 

7) His bedroom is very untidy

 

If you ask him to look for something he can never find it even when its under his nose, and he appears to have no idea on how to make a logical plan to start searching for it.

 

9) After much effort on both our parts homework that he does finish often does not get handed in (and I have to stand over him and help him to make sense of it and keep him focused on finishing - I know the reluctance to do it is part of PDA)

 

10) He often leaves items at school such as PE bag, homework, shoes.

 

11) His mind is often focused on his obsessions (at the minute army, lego, bionicles and Bakuman) rather than what he needs to do

 

12) He is just starting to get the hang of telling the time

 

13) If he wants your attention he will be really obvious in your face no matter what you are doing and he often puts his hand up or shout out when he does not know the answer to a question

 

Part of his objectives on his statement are to work on these skills at home and school, but I do not have any bright ideas as to how (other than telling him each time, and to be honest I am getting fed up of hearing my own voice ). I have stuck up visual charts for weekday morning and evening routines - one of each in his bedroom and also the morning one in the kitchen, so he sees it before he runs out on me for school. Can anyone help with other ideas that do not involve so much verbal prompting/ reminding from me or the teacher?? Do you think more visual aids will help or will he just learn to ignore them?? Any books you can recommend?

Is it worth pursuing an assessment for ADHD? Would medication help with these things or are the other strategies enough in themselves to work therefore meaning a formal diagnosis not necessary to help him... Am worried about how he will cope in secondary school, and if he cant his behaviour will deteriorate again...

 

Hi again.I have just looked through this original post.I thought I would say as I mentioned before that Ben is 10 and exactly the same.All of the things on the list apply to Ben and we have the same concerns about secondary school.As I said Ben has a dx of AS and dyspraxia.I don't know how much of the difficulties relate to dyspraxia.However you may be able to request a seperate assessment for dyspraxia via your GP.Ben was assessed by an OT and the assessment only took a couple of hours.I don't know whether you would gain any more support that way however there is the chance you might be able to access OT.

I should say I do not have a problem with a child having more than one dx.I am just concerned about you attempting access support for a condition that nobody is aware of.Karen.

 

 

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Karen A   
you know lets just forget the whole upsetting thing, it was a big misunderstanding!

I have to go and put kids to bed now, first day back tomorrow and its going to be a bit of a shock for all of us I think, so am expecting protests (at least) in the morning.

Like you said earlier its the end of a long hol and it sets me on edge as well as most parents I imagine (not even trying to think about the summer)

Also doing this course and have loads to type up for it, and cleaning and washing to fetch in so really must tear myself away now,

enjoy the rest of the evening

 

>:D<<'> >:D<<'> Hope the morning is easier than you expect.Ben is not back until Tuesday.I am mixed up....it has been a long holiday but Tuesday will not be fun either.Karen.

 

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Sally44   
Just to clarify, its not that I want another "label" to put after his name, I want just an understanding of how to help him, and by raising the issues I see with the GP and school then at least it gets discussed and hopefully they suggest some actions that we can take with or without an additional label and they will be aware of what he does find difficult and maybe help him or at least take that into consideration. (at present we do not see anyone from CAMHS or anywhere else to get advice from) and school are perhaps not seeing it as much as we are so are not pushing but I do know he will not cope if he is not supported in secondary, or given help from now to be able to help himself.

 

What would your line manager recommend/ do if a child shows signs from a number of disorders, (and perhaps there is not enough "ticks in boxes" to be able to diagnose any of them, or only one for definite). Would they

1) diagnose none - and risk parents/ teachers getting none/very little help and input from professionals as a result as there is seen to be nothing wrong)

2) diagnose one thing only (and just treat that ignoring other things),

3) or something else?

In this scenario these things are seen by school and home, and I am assuming there are not "parenting issues" at fault!!!

 

Of course an incorrect label(s)/ help can as damaging as no label/ help, so I do understand that you have to be careful.

 

Just my opinion specifically about PDA (not other labels/ multiple labels for same child) When my eldest was first assessed I and professionals looked as ASD/ AS (this assessment was from age 3 to almost 5 and involved multidisciplinary assessment groups, attending special nursery, being observed at playschools/ home and still no answers ,though others still thought ASD) you could tick some parts of the ASD/ AS diagnostic criteria but there were not enough for a diagnosis. I thought personally he had traits but it did not sit entirely comfortable as described in the DSMIV criteria

 

Alternatively, when the professional went through the list for PDA it was like it had been written for him. I had never heard or read up on it before this professional mentioned it (they had been part of the team assessing him since age 3 but had recently attended some training about PDA in the centre at Nottingham which is why it was only brought up then). I do personally think it is part of the ASD spectrum (and if you read the new factsheet on the NAS website you may see their opinion of PDA is different to what it used to be), as is Asperger Syndrome and would you say that should be called ASD, and not recognised/ treated as slightly different????

 

Of course all kids (even with same diagnosis) are of course different anyway and to me the label acts as a guideline towards things which might work rather that flailing around on your own with no idea what to do, and it also allows you to find other parents who may be experiencing similar things so that you can share and offload to someone who understands (like this forum does for us!).

 

There was an interesting article in the autumn 2008 edition of the NAS "communication" magazine, called diagnosing difference by Dr Stephen Shore has anyone read this?

 

Now I know what PDA means!! I'm next door to Nottingham, and I read up about that and discussed it with Sutherland School as to whether that might be relevant to my son as he didn't seem to fit into any DSM IV criteria. I don't think it was PDA. But this subject does get professionals all hot under the collar doesn't it!! Personally I don't see the problem with another aspect of the spectrum. Is it a different diagnosis or children with similar personality traits or similar deficits - I don't know, and to a certain degree I don't care if it helps get what you need. I found some useful information on Donna Williams website, as it sounds like she had behaviours that were similar to PDA as a child.

 

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Parly   

My son (age 10, diagnosed PDA) has over last few months improved so much in terms of reduction in aggressive behaviour, controlling his temper more and behaving better in school and he seems to be much happier nowadays. A number of things may have contributed to this (new teacher, mum at home now, some work at home relating to anger management, behaviour chart at school - not needed now ) WE are SO pleased with this (and as ever hoping that it continues!)

 

However I do have some other concerns about things which I am not sure are PDA/ ASD related or if its something else as well (ADHD?) .I have listed a number of things about him below (would say they are centered around organisation, think some points may also fall under "executive functioning") and I wonder if any others have noticed similar traits in their PDA children/ themselves?

 

1)I have to prompt him to get dressed, and remind him to wash/ brush teeth each morning or evening.

 

2) He often rushes out of the door in a morning forgetting his lunch/ bag/ coat/ pe kit and myself to walk him there - he is focused on going to school but forgets all the things he will need in the day

 

3)If you speak to him it often appears he is not listening.

 

4) He does not sit still even when on pc or watching tv he constantly fidgets. He is same in school and the teacher overlooks a lot of it if it is not disrupting the others too much (I think if she pulled him up every time he would have been banned from the classroom. I have seen this for myself as I go in to help the children in the class once a week)

 

5) He takes off his coat/ shoes/ any other clothing he does not want to wear as soon as he walks in to the door and drops it on the floor and goes off to do whatever. This is same whatever he is doing, as soon as he loses interest it is abandoned.

 

6) He loses money, and other things that you would think are important to him

 

7) His bedroom is very untidy

 

If you ask him to look for something he can never find it even when its under his nose, and he appears to have no idea on how to make a logical plan to start searching for it.

 

9) After much effort on both our parts homework that he does finish often does not get handed in (and I have to stand over him and help him to make sense of it and keep him focused on finishing - I know the reluctance to do it is part of PDA)

 

10) He often leaves items at school such as PE bag, homework, shoes.

 

11) His mind is often focused on his obsessions (at the minute army, lego, bionicles and Bakuman) rather than what he needs to do

 

12) He is just starting to get the hang of telling the time

 

13) If he wants your attention he will be really obvious in your face no matter what you are doing and he often puts his hand up or shout out when he does not know the answer to a question

 

Part of his objectives on his statement are to work on these skills at home and school, but I do not have any bright ideas as to how (other than telling him each time, and to be honest I am getting fed up of hearing my own voice ). I have stuck up visual charts for weekday morning and evening routines - one of each in his bedroom and also the morning one in the kitchen, so he sees it before he runs out on me for school. Can anyone help with other ideas that do not involve so much verbal prompting/ reminding from me or the teacher?? Do you think more visual aids will help or will he just learn to ignore them?? Any books you can recommend?

Is it worth pursuing an assessment for ADHD? Would medication help with these things or are the other strategies enough in themselves to work therefore meaning a formal diagnosis not necessary to help him... Am worried about how he will cope in secondary school, and if he cant his behaviour will deteriorate again...

Hi Westie. OK, my son is also ten years old and although not formally diagnosed at the moment, it’s felt almost certain the eventual findings will be Asperger’s, Dyspraxia and / or ADHD. There is also an element of Tourette’s too I reckon! He’s not as bad anymore but still has this overwhelming, almost uncontrollable urge to blurt out whatever pops into his head – usually the most inappropriate thing he could possibly say at that particular moment!

 

Just running through your questions and answering as and how I can relate really.

 

1) Yes. Sam would roll out of bed and not get washed, brush his teeth, hair and would quite happily leave the house with his clothes on inside out and back to front.

 

2) Yes. He’s bawled his eyes out before now because he thought he’d missed a trip he wanted to go on after forgetting to tell me about it. I spent ages messing about and getting him on it etc, then left the consent forms in an envelope right beside his bag. “DON’T FORGET TO GIVE THIS TO YOUR TEACHER” x 10... he moved the letter off the top of his bag and walked out without it.

 

3) Yes. I have to make sure I’ve got his attention and insist he looks at me when I’m saying something and then repeats it back to me afterwards.

 

4) Yes. Even in his sleep, Sam is extremely restless and spends the whole night tossing, turning and shouting out loud to whoever is featuring in his dream

 

5) Yes. Sometimes, there’s even a clear “trail” of items leading from the front door to the kitchen, where he just discarded items of clothing as he walks.

 

6) Yes – see answer 2.

 

7) Yes. It’s an absolute disgrace.

 

8) Yes. Sometimes I think so much effort goes into actually trying to find whatever he’s looking for that he can’t scan things right under his nose.

 

9) Yes! It really annoys me that he’ll put time and effort into doing his homework over the weekend and then not hand it into his teacher. Just this week I spoke with his teacher about it. You’d think the teacher would want it off him to be honest but I think Sam sometimes says he’s forgotten to bring it in – even though it’s inside his bag where he put it.

 

10) Yes. He came out of school once with someone else’s shoes and couldn’t work out why his feet had suddenly shrunk in size.

 

11) Yes. Sam’s is Xbox and the computer. I have to put a time limit on how much he’s on them and tell him he’s not allowed anywhere near unless and until certain things are done.

 

12) Yes – mainly with the 24hr clock.

 

13) Yes. He often gets rollocked for interrupting and knows straight away that he’s going to get rollocked. “Mum can I – sorry....” Again, I think there’s something going on behind the scenes that isn’t too unlike Tourette’s. Sometimes I can see that it takes physical effort NOT to say something.

 

We also had home / school plans and goals on how best to manage it, including charts, reminders and other things to prompt him. However, his short term memory is so poor that he even forgets about the reminder sheets he’s supposed to use – seriously!

 

I’ve had to get out the white flag with this one because he genuinely can’t help a lot of the issues and no amount of sheets and charts will change that. Sam has cried before now because he kept getting told off for making noises, fidgeting and shifting about etc, because he knows he shouldn’t do it but he doesn’t know when he is.

What I find works is hitting him where it hurts so to speak. I know he would spend his entire life playing the Xbox and that as soon as he walks though the door, that’s all he wants to do.

The deal is that he isn’t allowed anywhere near it until he’s done what needs doing. This is the thing I find motivates him and gets him shifting. He now comes straight home, rags off all his clothes, bags and shoes as he normally would – then retraces his steps and puts them all away, does his homework and whatever else he has to do and then he’s free to play when it turns 6.00

 

The issue of medication has been discussed with our GP but personally, I won’t consider that an option unless and until Sam feels life is too hard work without that extra bit of help and I can’t help but agree.

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Can't find your link Sally but - executive function disorder??? Who coined that one and what's the point? wacko.gif

 

Executive functioning involves all the higher level tasks that the human brain does - among many other things: planning, adapting, organising, anticipating, monitoring the environment and adjusting behaviour accordingly.

 

People with ASD have problems at various levels with executive functioning. But so do people with dementia, head injury and many other conditions, so to list it as a separate disorder is surely misleading and not particularly helpful - it's a symptom of something, not a condition, and treatment will surely depend on the cause?

 

K x

 

Check this link out:

Executive function

 

And this one to see which parts of the brains are affected:

The Brain

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1)I have to prompt him to get dressed, and remind him to wash/ brush teeth each morning or evening.

 

2) He often rushes out of the door in a morning forgetting his lunch/ bag/ coat/ pe kit and myself to walk him there - he is focused on going to school but forgets all the things he will need in the day

 

3)If you speak to him it often appears he is not listening.

 

4) He does not sit still even when on pc or watching tv he constantly fidgets. He is same in school and the teacher overlooks a lot of it if it is not disrupting the others too much (I think if she pulled him up every time he would have been banned from the classroom. I have seen this for myself as I go in to help the children in the class once a week)

 

5) He takes off his coat/ shoes/ any other clothing he does not want to wear as soon as he walks in to the door and drops it on the floor and goes off to do whatever. This is same whatever he is doing, as soon as he loses interest it is abandoned.

 

6) He loses money, and other things that you would think are important to him

 

7) His bedroom is very untidy

 

If you ask him to look for something he can never find it even when its under his nose, and he appears to have no idea on how to make a logical plan to start searching for it.

 

9) After much effort on both our parts homework that he does finish often does not get handed in (and I have to stand over him and help him to make sense of it and keep him focused on finishing - I know the reluctance to do it is part of PDA)

 

10) He often leaves items at school such as PE bag, homework, shoes.

 

11) His mind is often focused on his obsessions (at the minute army, lego, bionicles and Bakuman) rather than what he needs to do

 

12) He is just starting to get the hang of telling the time

 

13) If he wants your attention he will be really obvious in your face no matter what you are doing and he often puts his hand up or shout out when he does not know the answer to a question

 

This does sound alot like dyspraxia. I have dyspraxia along with my autism.

 

1- I am okay with it now. I had to be taught alot of personal hygiene from social services

 

2- I still have difficulty with- but i have to use something that shows me remember to put keys in bag, purse, mobile phone, bus pass. a visual timetable what to do before go to school.

 

3- people we dyspraxia have trouble with understanding verbal and auditory things when talking to us. so for me its useful for pictures and to be shown. Make sure he is understanding whats being said- although this can be a common thing in ASD too.

 

4- i also have trouble sitting still.

 

5- encourage son to put the coat on a the school peg. put shoes in the cupboard where belong. Mostly we find it hard to organise things where to put what is helpful for me is stickly labels telling me where to put things.

 

6- if he looses money he need to be shown it needs to be in the wallet, and then put it into the bag and only take out when needed. And he needs to also learn not to give money if people are asking for it as may not get it back.

 

7- again us dyspraxics have difficulty with organising. My bedroom gets messy a lot. You could do a visual timetable showing him where to put his things, and also label his drawers, cupboards etc what goes with what so its easier to find.

 

8- that is something i have trouble with. If you see it, try and make conversation and say you can see it and tell him as it may get upset a lot.

 

9- maybe his school should ask him for his homework and make sure gets it out of his bag.

 

10- that is again same with question 2

 

11- obsessions are relating to ASDs, I am obsessed with dolphins.

 

12- thats also common with dyspraxia. I cannot to tell the time even someone says 20 to i think 20 past the hour. So make sure he understands the time and maybe show him the big hand clock and digital to learn the different types of times.

 

13- he may not understand the question posed to him so he may benefit saying what you mean in a clear and concise way. I can get confused if not explained clearly and concisely

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You don't have to have dyspraxia or ADHD or ADD or whatever other abbreviationalised things there might be that I haven't included here to have poor organisational skills.

 

This affects a great deal many of us. For example often I go through life and I don't bother with basic things like cleaning the dishes, etc because to be honest I get by perfectly happily not doing these things. I can for example eat perfectly well without a plate. It is also possible to use a straw while the tap is running water. I mean I wouldn't do these things in practice but I think you get my drift...often times we all see things differently and what some people see as a priority others might not. And quite frankly tidying ones bedroom is definitely way down the list on priorities!

Edited by Mike_GX101

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