Anyone ever had a 'run in'with another parent at the school gates??

[connieruff]

I've always tried very hard to keep my cool with other parents, and am always biting my tongue.

But today I just flipped, I have had trouble with this particular boy bullying my son since playgroup, and it has escalated since October last year. (along with soem others) I was putting my son in his car seat today and I said to my son 'Did Aaron say anything to you today?' And just then his mum walked behind me (late as usual) as I straightened up she said 'You got a problem?' And I just saw red, I said 'Yes I have actually' and then told her what I thought of her son. And then she said 'My son was hauled in front of the head today WITHOUT ME BEING THERE' and I said well you should bring your son up properly then ...etc etc,

I know, I know shouldnt have done it - but it felt good!

 

[bikemad]

Im renowned up the school now....noone crosses me...my attitude is basically I look after me n mine cos noone else will n if that means telling someone exactly what I think then I will.....im sure some might not like that but I dont care tbh...my son was also bullied for 3 years n the stink I kicked up you wouldn't believe. Good for you I say.

[frogslegs]

Oh yes yes yes!!!!! Don't get me started on that one! I have a reputation, it is terrible and nobody speaks to me anymore as I growl past them.... I just can't do lovely anymore and I say it as it is because a lot of parents let their children get away with whatever... I have sorted my fair share of bullies in the past few years including the lot who wrote rude words on my car with a felttip pen(these were boys who are in the same class as my son) which really made me see red, children who threw stones at my house knowing very well we are in, people who swear at my son through the fence and cause a meltdown... I have got zero tolerance for this sort of behaviour and I have no hesitation anymore to go and approach parents and I have had very firm conversations. Sometimes I wish my husband put his foot down too but I think he is embarassed Afterwards I feel relieved and then crosser and crosser...I must say that I dream of living in a desert island, just for peace and quiet from all those nasty bullies. I think on the whole the parents are a lot worse than the children and they always side with the kids who therefore never ever learn from what happened.

You have my total sympathy! <'> <'> <'> Shall we start a club ?

[Enid]

Can I join? I want to live on that island, perhaps a few of us on here can club together. Enid

[aliwoo]

Oh yes yes yes!!!!! Don't get me started on that one! I have a reputation, it is terrible and nobody speaks to me anymore as I growl past them.... I just can't do lovely anymore and I say it as it is because a lot of parents let their children get away with whatever... I have sorted my fair share of bullies in the past few years including the lot who wrote rude words on my car with a felttip pen(these were boys who are in the same class as my son) which really made me see red, children who threw stones at my house knowing very well we are in, people who swear at my son through the fence and cause a meltdown... I have got zero tolerance for this sort of behaviour and I have no hesitation anymore to go and approach parents and I have had very firm conversations. Sometimes I wish my husband put his foot down too but I think he is embarassed Afterwards I feel relieved and then crosser and crosser...I must say that I dream of living in a desert island, just for peace and quiet from all those nasty bullies. I think on the whole the parents are a lot worse than the children and they always side with the kids who therefore never ever learn from what happened.

You have my total sympathy! <'> <'> <'> Shall we start a club ?

 

you sound just like my OH lol! i wish i had the balls to be like that but i dont sadly. mind you i haven't been round up enough yet i dont think.

[baddad]

I've always tried very hard to keep my cool with other parents, and am always biting my tongue.

But today I just flipped, I have had trouble with this particular boy bullying my son since playgroup, and it has escalated since October last year. (along with soem others) I was putting my son in his car seat today and I said to my son 'Did Aaron say anything to you today?' And just then his mum walked behind me (late as usual) as I straightened up she said 'You got a problem?' And I just saw red, I said 'Yes I have actually' and then told her what I thought of her son. And then she said 'My son was hauled in front of the head today WITHOUT ME BEING THERE' and I said well you should bring your son up properly then ...etc etc,

I know, I know shouldnt have done it - but it felt good!

 

Yes, it does feel good and i think from time to time we all end up doing it when the whole school gates thing gets too much, but I don't think it's ever a good thing to do, regardless of how justified we might feel...

If you think about it from the other mum's point of view, the conversation she would have had with her friends afterwards probably went something like this:

 

'So i was just walking past her car - she must have known i was there - and i hear here saying to that kid of hers "so has Aaron been bullying you today?", so i said "Excuse me? My son's not a bully and I don't take kindly to having him called that", and then she went off on one, ranting about what a nasty so-an-so my Aaron is and accusing me of being a bad mother and all... i dunno: you don't have to look far to see where her kid gets it from, do you?'

 

I'm not saying that's right or fair, or anything like that, and obviously the 'spin' she attached may be completely one sided and inaccurate, but that's probably exactly how it went and it's not done you or your son any favours. Compounding that, you've just demonstrated to your son that aggression and intimidation are acceptable (and adult?) responses to frustration, and reinforced in his head the idea that 'Aaron' is a bully and that it is acceptable to call him that in public, or to verbally abuse his mother...

 

Personally, I don't think even asking your son if someone has 'said anything to him' is a good idea (no matter how carefully you coach it - he knows the history here and he knows exactly what you're actually asking) because if you ask that question it's odds on your son will find something negative that's happened to tell you about. Ask any sales rep 'do you ask customers if they have service problems' and they will tell you 'no' - because human nature dictates that if you ask they will find a problem... human psychology, so if you can't find a sales rep ask a psychologist instead! If your son has had a problem and feels confident that you will listen he will tell you. (And before anyone says 'not if he's being threatened to keep quiet' - If he is being intimidated in some way and is genuinely fearful of the consequences of telling then he won't tell you because you've casually asked while strapping him in his car seat). If he doesn't volunteer any information then it's odds on that whatever 'incident' he recounts on being asked wasn't a significant event in his day in the first place, so why make it one?

 

As i say, no angel myself and i've occassionally slipped; but I've never viewed it as helpful after the event. Two wrongs and all that...

 

Hope that's helpful

 

L&P

 

BD

[bikemad]

Oh yes yes yes!!!!! Don't get me started on that one! I have a reputation, it is terrible and nobody speaks to me anymore as I growl past them.... I just can't do lovely anymore and I say it as it is because a lot of parents let their children get away with whatever... I have sorted my fair share of bullies in the past few years including the lot who wrote rude words on my car with a felttip pen(these were boys who are in the same class as my son) which really made me see red, children who threw stones at my house knowing very well we are in, people who swear at my son through the fence and cause a meltdown... I have got zero tolerance for this sort of behaviour and I have no hesitation anymore to go and approach parents and I have had very firm conversations. Sometimes I wish my husband put his foot down too but I think he is embarassed Afterwards I feel relieved and then crosser and crosser...I must say that I dream of living in a desert island, just for peace and quiet from all those nasty bullies. I think on the whole the parents are a lot worse than the children and they always side with the kids who therefore never ever learn from what happened.

You have my total sympathy! <'> <'> <'> Shall we start a club ?

 

O gawd I so know what you mean id love to live on a anti bullying island. My o/h is the same till he is really riles then the whole village knows lol.

[frogslegs]

Personally, I don't think even asking your son if someone has 'said anything to him' is a good idea (no matter how carefully you coach it - he knows the history here and he knows exactly what you're actually asking) because if you ask that question it's odds on your son will find something negative that's happened to tell you about. Ask any sales rep 'do you ask customers if they have service problems' and they will tell you 'no' - because human nature dictates that if you ask they will find a problem... human psychology, so if you can't find a sales rep ask a psychologist instead! If your son has had a problem and feels confident that you will listen he will tell you. (And before anyone says 'not if he's being threatened to keep quiet' - If he is being intimidated in some way and is genuinely fearful of the consequences of telling then he won't tell you because you've casually asked while strapping him in his car seat). If he doesn't volunteer any information then it's odds on that whatever 'incident' he recounts on being asked wasn't a significant event in his day in the first place, so why make it one?

Yes I agree with that. These days I avoid going to the school and my children take themselves there because the less I know the better I am. We have also drummed into my son that if there is a problem at school it needs to be dealt with immediately at school, that works on the whole. We also tell him that we don't need to know everything.

For our part the problems are far more in the street, and when I witness things what am I supposed to do, turn a blind eye? I think Baddad you may be too conciliatory. I can see your point of view but there is a point when enough is enough because believe me other parents don't put up with much either. To give you an example, we have had children getting into our garden while we were away and breaking our drying umbrella, taking all our children's toys and scattering them all over the estate (a fairly posh estate), I could give you a whole list of similar things that have happened. This is due to the fact that in their words, my son is odd, so we harass the odd one. Charming.

[baddad]

For our part the problems are far more in the street, and when I witness things what am I supposed to do, turn a blind eye? I think Baddad you may be too conciliatory. I can see your point of view but there is a point when enough is enough because believe me other parents don't put up with much either. To give you an example, we have had children getting into our garden while we were away and breaking our drying umbrella, taking all our children's toys and scattering them all over the estate (a fairly posh estate), I could give you a whole list of similar things that have happened. This is due to the fact that in their words, my son is odd, so we harass the odd one. Charming.

 

No, I don't think turning a blind eye is the right thing to do either, and I'm def not concilatory! And i'm not pretending I'm a saint, either, because i've had the occassional run in myself (usually as a result of 'holding my tongue' for too long and then getting flustered and tongue tied when i do let go) -but i've always regretted it after the event...

Far better, if you can, to approach people when you're calm and collected and the kids aren't around and just try to explain your POV. Chances are, they won't get it - but then they won't get it if you rant at them either, and you've already lost any MHG (moral high ground!) you might have had by descending to their level...

 

As i say, the italicised account i've given for the way the other mum perceived/recounted the event is probably pretty accurate - and given a reverse situation (where you walked past a mum and heard her asking her child about your son/daughter, and then got shouted at/accused of bad parenting) you'd probably interpret it the same way...

 

I posted this in the batcave about four years ago ('what's 'the batcave'? Ahhh... those were the days...), and it'll save me a lot of typing! sorry if the formatting's funny - thais forum doesn't like copy/paste sometimes:

 

Eye of the beholder…

(Or “The Interactional Paradigm” [Kelly, D et al, 1989], if you want to get technical about it!”)

 

Something that happened during a mostly marvellous week at Butlintz, that demonstrates brilliantly how individual perspectives can imply different meanings to a single set of circumstances, and how that can impact hugely on the lives of our kids…

 

Ben and I were a little bit late getting to the ‘club’ one evening (he’d been struttin’ his funky stuff rather energetically on the Konami machine and lost all track of time!), and by the time we arrived there were no seats available and the show was in full swing. Looking over people’s heads, I could see there was a good bit of sitting-space on the floor in front of the stage for Ben, and I suggested he make his way through while I stood at the back.

Ben, keen as mustard, couldn’t see the small gap between the edge of the seated crowd and the stage, and instead tore off THROUGH the crowd before I could stop him. Given the noise of the show, the size of the crowd and his own excitement, Ben couldn’t hear my directions, or those of the people who were blocking his path at the final hurdle…

 

PERSPECTIVE ONE:

Sitting in a fairly large group around several tables on the edge of the stage, LADY 1 becomes aware of a small boy trying to force his way between her chair and the one next to her. She asks him to wait, and tries to direct him around the edge of the chairs toward the small gap next to the stage. The boy ignores her, then tries to crawl UNDER her chair, between everyone’s legs. When he can’t get through this way, he tries to climb OVER her chair, using whatever he can grab as a handhold. She pushes him back, trying again to direct him around to the gap he can’t see, and in the process accidentally pulls off a set of love beads the boy is wearing on his wrist. At this the boy starts flailing his arms wildly, and calls her a “prat”. Interpreting the arm movements as aggression, she tries to hold the boy back, calling him a ‘horrible, vicious little boy”. As she shouts this a fairly large, flustered looking bloke arrives on the scene, saying, “He’s not horrible, love, he has autism”. At this, her friend (Lady 2) turns to the man and say’s (quite aggressively) “Well WE didn’t know that!!” to which the man replies (equally angrily) “No, I didn’t say you did, did I? Which is why I was trying to explain it to you!” Hearing this LADY 1 Then says: “Well we can see where he gets it from can’t we? No wonder he’s so rude and aggressive with a father like you to contend with!!” etc etc…

 

PERSPECTIVE TWO:

Baddad watches apprehensively as Ben fetches up behind a large group blocking his way. He’s trying to catch Ben’s eye by shouting and waving so he can point to the gap he sees at the edge of the stage, but Ben can’t hear him and is looking in the wrong direction. On seeing Ben trying to crawl under the chairs, Baddad starts making his way forward to intervene, but by the time he arrives, Ben’s ‘worry beads’ have come off, and he is having a hissy fit involving lots of non-directed arm flailing, which results in him being called, “horrible” and “vicious”. Rushing over to try and calm the situation, Baddad starts to explain that Ben has an autistic spectrum disorder, only to hear an explosive “Well WE didn’t know that!” from behind him. His response to this isn’t intended to sound aggressive (and he doesn’t really realise that it does at this point), but in reality it probably does because Baddad has been here many, many times before, and – rightly or wrongly – it does put his back up when people make the wrong assumptions about his son without ever giving a thought that there might be another explanation…etc etc

PERSPECTIVE THREE:

Ben is struggling to fight his way through the crowd to see the stage show. It’s the man off of CITV and Ben is very excited. He’s completely stuck behind this large group of people, and even shouting at the top of his voice he just can’t get their attention. Who knows, maybe Ben thinks they’re doing it on purpose? Lots of people ignore him completely at school when he tries to talk to them. Finally, a lady looks round, but instead of moving to let him past she just starts pointing in the opposite direction and shooing him away. He tries going under the obstacles, but that doesn’t work either. Seeing no other way forward, he next tries to climb over the back of the chair, but the lady pushes him backwards. Then she steals his new beads, which he’s only just put on after breaking his other set at the swimming pool. The beads are a new idea, to help him stop stimming his hair. They mean a lot to him. Ben gets angry, and calls the lady a prat [not a nice word, certainly, but Ben’s worst curse, which, given his age, is something to be grateful for!]. He starts stamping his feet and throwing his arms about in frustration. He sees dad coming to help out, but when he gets there another lady starts shouting at HIM… etc etc.

 

 

 

When things were calmer, I sent Ben over to apologise, then followed this up with a further apology myself when I explained CALMLY that Ben’s ASD is never used as an excuse for bad behaviour, but that responses to incidents sometimes call for certain allowances to be made.

For the most part, Ben probably lives with firmer boundaries than most kids of his age, and generally copes brilliantly given his compromised understanding of social rules and his inability to fully ‘read’ the intentions of others. The situation was also explained fully to Ben, to ensure he understood that the ladies weren’t being nasty, that they just hadn’t understood what was going on...

All in all, only a couple of minutes out of a whole evening and no major catastrophe, but it took the shine off the rest of the night for me if no one else…No ones ‘fault’ either: three adults and one kid all messing up to a degree, and all feeling hugely embarrassed and guilty as a result.

We did bump into the ladies occasionally afterwards, and they got the opportunity to see Ben (and me!) in a better light… Hope their holiday was as good as the rest of ours was, which (for the third or fourth year running!) was – in Ben’s reckoning – our “best one EVER!!”

 

Still trying to catch up on everything, but will get back soon…

Did everybody miss us?…

Did ANYBODY miss us?…

Oh… Right… … … …

I’ll just get my coat…

 

L&P, y’all

BD (and Ben)

 

L&P

 

BD

[bid]

This is a difficult balance to find, I think...

 

I agree with BD that public rows aren't helpful.

 

On the other hand, I have never, ever stood up to anyone at the school gates either! When DD#1 was in year 4 she was the victim of a really nasty bullying campaign by a little gang of other girls, led by the DD of one of my 'friends'!! I approached the school, who dealt with the whole thing very, very well. I know the ringleader's parents were called into the school, but I never once dared say anything to the mum. As a result I was the one ostracised by her and the one other mum who did speak to me!

 

I wish I could deal with these situations in the 'right' way, but I get so flustered I hide from any confrontation...which is no more ideal than the public row approach!

 

Bid

[frogslegs]

It is definitely a difficult balance and the example that Baddad lists is between an adult and a child. The incidents we face are children harassing another child. For my part I have had endless polite discussions with their parents asking kindly not to let their children do this or that. Once you have asked X number of times and that you end up being shouted at by parents, told that children will be children and that they don't want their own children in their own backgarden because they will damage the beautiful flowers (sic) but that it's okay for them to harass others then it pushes my limits. When the neighbours kids came into my garden and broke things, I went two days after to see mother so that I was calm and explained what had happened and that I was seriously upset. The mother said that she did not know what to do, I suggested to come and apologise might be a good start that was laughted at! I have ended up saying that if there is a next time I will call the Police. A few minutes later the said child was chanting in the street that Mel always calls the police (never done yet) . Before I had children had you asked me whether I had an angry side I would have said never. Unfortunately I have discovered it! I am still keen on the desert island!!!!

[baddad]

It is definitely a difficult balance and the example that Baddad lists is between an adult and a child. The incidents we face are children harassing another child. For my part I have had endless polite discussions with their parents asking kindly not to let their children do this or that. Once you have asked X number of times and that you end up being shouted at by parents, told that children will be children and that they don't want their own children in their own backgarden because they will damage the beautiful flowers (sic) but that it's okay for them to harass others then it pushes my limits. When the neighbours kids came into my garden and broke things, I went two days after to see mother so that I was calm and explained what had happened and that I was seriously upset. The mother said that she did not know what to do, I suggested to come and apologise might be a good start that was laughted at! I have ended up saying that if there is a next time I will call the Police. A few minutes later the said child was chanting in the street that Mel always calls the police (never done yet) . Before I had children had you asked me whether I had an angry side I would have said never. Unfortunately I have discovered it! I am still keen on the desert island!!!!

 

But the situation being described isn't a situation between child and child, or between an adult and a child - it's two adults, arguing while one parent is putting their child in a car. The point I'm trying to make is that no matter how angry you get it's only likely to make the situation worse rather than better (as your own story demonstrates). Okay, the 'reasonable' approach doesn't work either - but at least your modelling 'reasonable' for your child and keeping your dignity. You can't control what the other parent does, but if they have even the slightest shred of 'reasonable' about them you are far more likely to access it by behaving reasonably yourself. If they haven't, why waste your breath, and why set such a bad example to your child and or enable others to label you as the aggressive party?

 

 

[KarenT]

Sweet God in Heaven, I think I've just agreed with every word that Baddad has said

 

How very strange and unexpected

 

Off to have a large gin and a lie down now, I think I need it.

 

Karen

x

[sonj186]

I can see it from both sides to be honest as cam has been bullied and cam has bullied, and its heart breaking either way. i have not had any run ins though, there have been times when i have felt like going mental at some parents! but to be honest in my case i dont think it would do any good other than to make me feel better i think im just scared that if i start shouting etc i might never stop

[baddad]

Sweet God in Heaven, I think I've just agreed with every word that Baddad has said

 

How very strange and unexpected

 

Off to have a large gin and a lie down now, I think I need it.

 

Karen

x

 

I'm sure I'll redeem myself (if that's the word) later

meanwhile, enjoy the gin and lie down, and have one for me (gin that is, not lie down - you'll set tongues wagging!)

 

L&P

 

BD

 

[frogslegs]

I'm sure I'll redeem myself (if that's the word) later

meanwhile, enjoy the gin and lie down, and have one for me (gin that is, not lie down - you'll set tongues wagging!)

 

L&P

 

BD

OK Baddad, I surrender...

[cmuir]

Hi

 

The school gate environment can be a very difficult one to deal with! I was the subject of a great deal of gossip for a long time - oh, she's a soft touch, let's her kid away with murder, etc, etc. I recall one incident whereby my son was fine at home, fine in the car, but once bell went and was standing in the line decided to shout and ball at me (said he wished I was dead). Teacher came over and said that that must have been very hurtful. In full view and within earshot of the gossip brigade I advised her that R has AS and that he was upset because I put the wrong polo shirt on him, but what was even more upsetting was the audience that seemed to enjoy the entertainment every morning, when in fact what they were witnessing was a disabled child in a great deal of distress. I've also been faced with a six foot two wimp balling at me because my son pushed his son away in an act of self-defence. This was unacceptable to him as R was much larger than his child. I explained that I wasn't there to witness what had happened and by all accounts nor was he. I requested that he allow the children into school and the we could discuss it. He was having none of it and approached my son and shouted at him. I was obviously fuming, but was very much aware of how the situation could have escalated and advised him that he'd ignored my request to discuss this once the kids were in school and that instead if he ever shouted or approached my son again I'd be making the matter official and involving the police. I managed to stay calm even though I was shaking like a leaf, but I actually felt a great sense of satisfaction knowing that I'd dealt with things in a calm, reasonable and non-confrontational manner (gosh, that sounds smug - don't mean it to!) and that I do have standards. Standards which hopefully reflect how I bring up my child, etc.

 

I also recently had cause to complain to my son's HT about another child who has significant behavioural problems. I felt terrible doing it, because it felt like the pot calling the kettle black. I think that's key - in difficult situations, to try and put yourself in the other person's shoes (hopefully they'll do the same and if not, they're not worth bothering about).

 

I can see why you asked your child if anyone had said anything to him. It's so difficult when you know that they wouldn't know if they were being bullied. I've noticed how easily my son can 'react' to questions and I try to be very general and ask 'how was your day today?'. He doesn't always tell me about incidents straight away, it can be days later, but nevertheless he eventually seems to find a way of telling me about things that bother him. Maybe you could try him with a book eg 'How do you feel Thomas'? It gives very brief little stories about why, for example, Thomas is sad - because Henry left him, etc. Those types of scenarios are very simplistic, but I think are quite effective in getting the point across to a child, who can then in turn hopefully relate this to actual situations.

 

Hope you don't have anymore run-ins.

 

Caroline.

[Kathryn]

please delete mods

 

Please delete mods???

 

Now that's aggression for you. What have we ever done to you?

 

K x

[baddad]

Please delete mods???

 

Now that's aggression for you. What have we ever done to you?

 

K x

 

Well, apart from the needles under the finger nails, chinese water torture and force feeding with hummus and biltong...

 

OK Baddad, I surrender...

 

No need for that - 'agreeing to differ' is absolutely fine

[connieruff]

Baddad- not sure where you get the impression I have demonstrated ‘that aggression and intimidation’’ are acceptable. Where did I say that I was aggressive and intimidating?? I told her in no uncertain terms that ‘yes I did have a problem, her son has been bullying mine for a long time, and it was not my fault if the school were now bringing him to book', she seemed to think it was my fault that her son was in trouble.

One thing I have since found out via one of the TAs is that this particular child even when spoken to last year was caught putting his hand over his mouth so he could not be seen and whispering nasty things to my son, who would get upset and so they could all laugh at him

You say I have not done my son any favours – so by ignoring these people and their children and by letting the school deny there are any problems I am doing my son a favour? By being nice to them and polite to them, I am doing my son a greater favour by letting them torment him every day in the classroom and out of it?

Our children look to us to defend them and I had failed by being nice and polite so I owe it to him to make sure it does not happen again, and if I have to do that by taking on these people, their sons and the teachers then I will. The do not respond to anything else – why do you think the head suddenly took action??? Because I accused her of being a bully herself by letting it continue, I told her I had a solicitor champing at the bit to get at the school because they broke the law last year by discriminating against him. I let loose the dogs of war!

MY point is I should not have had to argue and fight with the school to get my sons basic human rights.

And I take great exception to you saying I verbally abused his mother in public! You make me sound like a fishwife!

I know my son better than you do, and I was asking if Aaron had said something to him as the head had told me that all 3 boys were going to apologise to him that day.

Also we are not sales reps, we are one very stressed out mother and one very depressed son who has been living and breathing this problem for many months.

Also the car door was closed while I spoke to the mother, and it was not in public, and shall I tell you what really annoyed me about this woman? The fact that she knew the facts and all she cared about was that her son had been caught out and brought to book. The other mothers involved had spoken to me and we chatted in a civilised manner about it.

But… at the end of the day the real culprits are the school, I’ve sent letters and phoned and spoken to the school – and because it wasn’t dealt with properly -, it wasn’t nipped in the bud, it has escalated to this, parents up in arms, solicitors advice sought, my son mentally scarred.

Sorry I have come across as aggressive now, I have not had a coffee yet! 

 

[Pippin]

Hope the coffee has worked !!!

 

I've just been thinking through the strategies we use (cos I'm an utter wimp and hate facing other parents!!). Our luckiest is that P goes to a rural school with no safe walking route, so the council bus all the children in, even if they live fairly close. Thus I havent had to face other parents in years and take all problems (and there are lots!!) straight to the school. The bus escort is also fantastic and keeps all the little horrors in line on the bus. Its not ideal but it does help. Is there any way of picking him up a bit earlier or later than the general chuckout time, and thus avoiding flashpoints?

The other thing I learned...the hard way....is never to discuss the school day until we are all in the house. Nothing can then be overheard and we can all rant as much as we like.

The school are pretty ###### with bullying, but at least we can take one step back from the school gate.

 

hope that helps

 

Pippin

[chris54]

The first day I went to pick my son up from his then new school, I think some of the other parents (Mums) were on the point of phoning the police to report an escaped convict hanging around the school gate, until the TA came up to me with my son in tow. I just growl and they stay away from me.

 

The little kids always seem fascinated sitting in their pushchairs smiling at me much to their mothers horror.

[baddad]

Baddad- not sure where you get the impression I have demonstrated ‘that aggression and intimidation’’ are acceptable...

 

You say I have not done my son any favours – so by ignoring these people and their children and by letting the school deny there are any problems I am doing my son a favour? By being nice to them and polite to them, I am doing my son a greater favour by letting them torment him every day in the classroom and out of it?...

 

Our children look to us to defend them and I had failed by being nice and polite so I owe it to him to make sure it does not happen again, and if I have to do that by taking on these people, their sons and the teachers then I will. The do not respond to anything else – why do you think the head suddenly took action??? Because I accused her of being a bully herself by letting it continue, I told her I had a solicitor champing at the bit to get at the school because they broke the law last year by discriminating against him. I let loose the dogs of war!

 

Hi connie -

I'm sorry if I've misunderstood, but I got the impressions that you had demonstrated that aggression and intimidation were acceptable from the statements:

 

And just then his mum walked behind me (late as usual) as I straightened up she said 'You got a problem?' And I just saw red, I said 'Yes I have actually' and then told her what I thought of her son.

and:

 

and I said well you should bring your son up properly then ...etc etc,

 

I think if i was the parent on the receiving end of that i'd think you were being aggressive and intimidating, and if you did that in frontof your son(whether the door was closed or not)/other children/other parents (as your original post made it appear that this was happening just outside of the school gates) that it was demonstrating those things as acceptable.

 

Obviously, I (like every other member of the forum) can only offer advice/comment on what you write, and I take what';s written at face value, and the language you have used to describe the scene - whether accurate or not - is aggressive and intimidating.

 

In the reply above you have written that you've accused the head teacher herself of being a bully, threatened legal action from a 'solicitor champing at the bit' and 'let loose the dogs of war'. To me, none of that sounds like a useful or productive dialogue to be having with a head teacher, and, again, it does come across (to me) as aggressive and intimidating.

 

You've said at the end of your post, 'sorry if i've come across as aggressive now'... I wouldn't go so far as 'aggressive', but i do think you've missed a great deal of what I wrote in reply to your original post, because I've not once suggested that:

 

by ignoring these people and their children and by letting the school deny there are any problems I am doing my son a favour? By being nice to them and polite to them, I am doing my son a greater favour by letting them torment him every day in the classroom and out of it?

 

I've just suggested there are better ways. If you feel that your way is going to work better for your son that's fine - I'm only giving an opinion (which you asked for) not trying to tell you what to do. My opinion is that 'letting loose the dogs of war', whether directed at other parents, other children or the school and staff is unlikely to improve the situation, or show you in the best light, or make things easier for your son, or demonstrate to your son that a reasoned, controlled and systematic approach is the way to solve these kinds of problems.

As I've said; reasoned, controlled and systematic may not work either, but IMO and experience it works better, and the people it doesn't work on are even less likely to respond to the tactics you've used.

 

L, P & coffee

 

BD

[bikemad]

Baddad- not sure where you get the impression I have demonstrated ‘that aggression and intimidation’’ are acceptable. Where did I say that I was aggressive and intimidating?? I told her in no uncertain terms that ‘yes I did have a problem, her son has been bullying mine for a long time, and it was not my fault if the school were now bringing him to book', she seemed to think it was my fault that her son was in trouble.

One thing I have since found out via one of the TAs is that this particular child even when spoken to last year was caught putting his hand over his mouth so he could not be seen and whispering nasty things to my son, who would get upset and so they could all laugh at him

You say I have not done my son any favours – so by ignoring these people and their children and by letting the school deny there are any problems I am doing my son a favour? By being nice to them and polite to them, I am doing my son a greater favour by letting them torment him every day in the classroom and out of it?

Our children look to us to defend them and I had failed by being nice and polite so I owe it to him to make sure it does not happen again, and if I have to do that by taking on these people, their sons and the teachers then I will. The do not respond to anything else – why do you think the head suddenly took action??? Because I accused her of being a bully herself by letting it continue, I told her I had a solicitor champing at the bit to get at the school because they broke the law last year by discriminating against him. I let loose the dogs of war!

MY point is I should not have had to argue and fight with the school to get my sons basic human rights.

 

Also we are not sales reps, we are one very stressed out mother and one very depressed son who has been living and breathing this problem for many months.

 

But… at the end of the day the real culprits are the school, I’ve sent letters and phoned and spoken to the school – and because it wasn’t dealt with properly -, it wasn’t nipped in the bud, it has escalated to this, parents up in arms, solicitors advice sought, my son mentally scarred.



 

Im with you on this totally.....ive had a nightmare for 3 years with my son being bullied n the mother does nothing except moan her kid has been told off the school do nothing...etc..involved the lea and police as I had a suicidal 9yr old....no need to go on cos I know you know exactly what I mean.

 

The only person who my son has to stick up for him is me and im not going to let me or him be walked over and if that entails having a go at someone cos noone else does then il damn well do it n id have a go at anyone else who had a go at me for doing so if that makes sense. We shouldnt have to do it but theres times theres no other option.

 

 

 

[frogslegs]

Baddad, I think you must live in a different world to the rest of us...A world were people are all sweet to each other. Peace and love?

Unfortunately, for the rest of us the world is a slightly different story. I wish being nice, polite and constructive worked. But it does not always. I agree that shouting and threatening should not be used unless under duress but as parents of our special children we are often under duress. A lot of heads do not want to see that there is bullying in their school (that would be easier wouldn't it?) and therefore don't act on it. We had a head (who fortunately retired) for the first two years of my son's education and it was awful because nothing was adressed, so it would fester between parents of bullies and bullied. Now we have a younger person and things are managed better and as I said before things that happen at school are dealt with at school.

Sometimes we end up at the end of our tether (certainly I do) when bad situations happen repeatedly and that our children are hurt physically or mentally and parents of perpetrators do not seem to see what the problem is. This is possibly because between two NT children these things don't become an issue. My daughter has never had a problem with anyone (touch wood) because she can take care of herself and sort her problems out herself. There is no one who can look after my son other than me and although I can try to help him sort himself out by giving him advice, there are times when he cannot handle things physically and emotionally and then we, his parents need to stand for his rights.

I am not prepared to have my property ransacked, my son called names in the street everytime he goes out, or knocked off his bike on purpose, or him living as a recluse because he is scared, simply to be accommodating and not make waves!!!! I know that not making waves and being passive is an English tradition, but there are limits! There are children who are professional bullies and we certainly have a couple in our street whose parents let them be abusive to others. It is obviously an easier mode of education. They are not children with special needs but they are streetwise, left out in the street for hours on end without supervision. These days to avoid conflict I end up putting very carefully worded notes through parents' doors, systematically, I get father on doorstep swearing at me (he is a teacher). Now you tell me who is agressive?

I must say I envy the fact that you obviously can stay calm in every situation, I wish I could be like that at all times.!

 

[bid]

Entering this forum 'gate' with trepidation!

 

I think parents of children with special needs do need to be assertive, no doubt about it...but I don't think being aggressive or threatening ever really works. It might in the short-term, but looking at the wider picture I don't think it is successful.

 

Last year I was sent on a Positive Communication training course through work. There was one woman there who was very opinionated and 'blunt', and as a result I certainly found her intimidating. Anyway, there was a discussion about how you could be assertive in different situations, including someone queue-jumping. Her response was something along the lines of 'Oi, behind me!'. Without thinking I blurted out that that was just rude, not assertive Interestingly, she was really taken aback and actually said she had always thought she was just being 'assertive' in how she communicated with other people.

 

At the end of the training we all had to say what we had gained from the day, and this woman said she felt she needed to re-think the way she communicated as it seemed that what she thought of as being 'assertive' was actually often just very rude.

 

Whatever our best intentions, we can all lose it sometimes and be rude...but IMO the thing to do then is apologise.

 

Bid

Edited April 24, 2009 by bid

[KarenT]

I wish being nice, polite and constructive worked. But it does not always.

 

Well, I've got to agree with that - it's the main reason J no longer goes to school. I got sick of being polite, reasonable and proactive with school staff who paid lip service to giving support then did nothing.

 

I later found out that another dissatisfied mother with an AS boy in J's class had gone in to see the teacher, really gone hell for leather at her and demanded X, Y and Z for him, and got it. They now have a good working relationship and the boy is doing well in her class. Being cooperative, open and trying to engage in a positive parent/school relationship wasn't the right approach as it got us nowhere, but I couldn't bring myself to be the shouty, rude and demanding person I'd have had to be to get results at that school. To me it was just wrong and could easily have backfired.

 

However, I still maintain that generally you're more likely to get a positive response from being reasonable and staying calm than if you let yourself lose your temper and shout at people, however irritated they may be making you. And like Baddad, I'm far from perfect and have lost my patience many, many times but have always made matters worse and have always regretted it. It's certainly not something I'm proud of afterwards.

 

As far as relationships with other parents are concerned, I've always found that apart from a small handful who appreciated the efforts I was making to teach J right from wrong, social skills and how to behave appropriately, most of them disliked me for the bad parent they assumed me to be and disliked J because he was just a horrible kid in their eyes. When people have that attitude they can rarely be swayed and they're always looking for proof for their opinions. Demonstrating anti-social behaviour myself would just have added fuel their fire that J had 'got it from the parents' so I felt it was in my best interests to demonstrate my parenting ability to counter their arguments.

 

I don't think anyone is saying it's easy to be patient all the time, and I don't know anyone who can achieve that consistently, nor is anyone saying we should tolerate negativity towards our children. It's just that there are good and bad ways of dealing with such situations, and many of us have learned that from personal experience.

 

Karen

x

[baddad]

Baddad, I think you must live in a different world to the rest of us...A world were people are all sweet to each other. Peace and love?...

 

Why do you think that? I'm sorry, but because i don't respond to the things in the same way that you do does not mean they don't effect me, and - very sorry - but to suggest that is the case is nothing more than 'gainsaying' to justify how you behave. My son has exactly the same issues in his life as the other children being discussed here, and I have to/have had to deal with exactly the kind of issues that other parents have... I could 'gainsay' that by saying that as a single dad my situation and my son's has been far worse, because we are 'doubly disenfranchised - but i won't..

 

I must say I envy the fact that you obviously can stay calm in every situation, I wish I could be like that at all times.!

 

I've already said, i don't and haven't... the difference is, I've always regreted it afterwards and have never for one moment seen it as a 'positive'.

 

I am not prepared to have my property ransacked, my son called names in the street everytime he goes out, or knocked off his bike on purpose, or him living as a recluse because he is scared, simply to be accommodating and not make waves!!!!

 

when have i ever said you should be? But has this all stopped, because you have 'shouted and threatened under duress'? On the occassions i have 'bitten back' it has made the situation worse rather than better, and without a doubt every positive dialogue has come about through reasonable negotiation and not losing my temper. As I've said, there are some people and some situations where nothing works, but that's not going to be changed by 'two wrongs' is it?

 

The thing is, with behaviour that is aggressive, confrontational etc etc you are, fundamentally, behaving in exactly the same way as the parents you are criticising - the only difference being that you are using your child's disability to justify it, and it doesn't. No matter how frustrating it is, responding like for like to aggression and abuse can only be aggressive and abusive.

 

In closing, can i just say that i get tired of people making assumptions about my life or my son's. there are very few 'topics' on this forum - be it bullying, education, behaviour management, social isolation, food & diet, LEA's, Medical etc etc etc that are not or have not been a issue. That we have resolved some of those issues and/or deal with the ones that have not been resolved in a different way does not mean that their impact, severity or implications have been any less. Successfully managing a situation or behaviour does not mean that I/we were dealing with a different situation or behaviour, no matter how convenient it is to draw that conclusion.

 

L&P (as always)

 

BD

[NobbyNobbs]

im not going to let me or him be walked over and if that entails having a go at someone cos noone else does then il damn well do it n id have a go at anyone else who had a go at me for doing so if that makes sense.

surely thats the same mentality the bully and their mother use to explain away their own behaviour?

 

i also noticed a lot - in general - of not taking into account any difficulties the other party have (which doesn't excuse bullying, no matter what, but can explain the reasons why) whilst expecting them to overly consider your own childs difficulties (whether they know of them or not).

 

the children i look after are almost always either bullied, or a bully themselves, so i've been on both sides of this argument, and nothing has ever been resolved by shouting offensive and hurtful things at each other. i've picked up children from the school gates and had to go appologise to another parent after witnessing the child i was collecting hurting their child, or being told about it by a teacher. thankfully i've never been shouted at for it!

[bikemad]

surely thats the same mentality the bully and their mother use to explain away their own behavior?

 

i also noticed a lot - in general - of not taking into account any difficulties the other party have (which doesn't excuse bullying, no matter what, but can explain the reasons why) whilst expecting them to overly consider your own child's difficulties (whether they know of them or not).

 

the children i look after are almost always either bullied, or a bully themselves, so i've been on both sides of this argument, and nothing has ever been resolved by shouting offensive and hurtful things at each other. i've picked up children from the school gates and had to go appologise to another parent after witnessing the child i was collecting hurting their child, or being told about it by a teacher. thankfully i've never been shouted at for it!

 

No, they say its jut their boy being a boy n being bullied is part of life n my son should toughen up n stick up for himself....the child has no problems and has a mum n dad who get into fights every weekend then go home n brag about it too their kids....why should my child have to toughen up n stick up for himself, she should bring her child up properly to be a decent child...not once was she even called up th school n she had a go cos her lad missed play...woopdedoo...my kid wanted to kill himself...im not goig to let that continue and if being nice n doing it 'right' dont work then yes il stick up for my son...no one else will.

[Sally44]

I think the original post, and connieruffs additional explanation of the background and what happened needs to be read again.

My understanding is that she asked her son 'did Aaron say anything to you today', because she had been told he was supposed to apologise to your son. That is not clear from the first post Then, at that moment, Aaron's mother walked past and asked 'have you got a problem', which related to her own son getting into trouble for bullying.

So, if anyone was being agressive it was Aaron's mum, who also seemed to be more bothered about the fact that he was caught and punished and not at all bothered by the fact that her son is a bully.

But is any dialogue with a woman like that going to get you anywhere? If you had been able to ask her 'do you think it is acceptable for your son to bully a special needs child (or indeed any child)', it would have been interesting to get her response. I've got visions of Vicky Pollard in my head now!!

And unfortunately, humans being humans, these kind of people can enjoy winding up the parents as much as their children enjoy winding up ours. We become the entertainment. Makes me wonder about the definition of 'special needs'.

Fortunately I haven't had any run ins with parents. Had some with school staff though. I always tried to leave it at least 24 hours before I did anything. Usually I would type up a letter, and then read it again 12 hours later to see how it sounded. Usually I had to alter it alot after the heat of the moment. Then I would send it in.

As our children's advocates we have to defend them. If the understanding and the supports are not there to begin with parents can be left behaving like a cornered lion defending their cub!

But it doesn't help when our children are not understood. I was once called into school because my son had been throwing duplo bricks at the TA. Which she said was very inappropriate. She explained that my son had chosen the duplo dinosaur to play with. Then after about 5 mins the TA had insisted that he allow two other children to join in and had also insisted that they build a dinosaur (and my son was halfway to completing his duplo robot), I wasn't at all surprised that he had got angry. And I told her that I thought that her behaviour had been inappropriate to let two other children take over the toy and ride roughshod over my son. She said 'but if we don't do these things he just stays on his own'. I'm sure other parents have had this type of scenario.

I've just remembered a run in I did have at a toddler playgroup. This was pre-diagnosis - but I knew something was wrong and my nerves were very frayed (see i'm trying to excuse myself). My son was sat with toys, and this other toddler kept coming along, picking them up one by one and walking off with them. My son was throwing a tantrum, but doing nothing to stop the other child. His mother was chatting with another mum and totally unaware of what her child was doing. When you have an autistic child you know that there is no way to 're-direct them' from a toy they have been enjoying and which has just been removed. I was livid. So I went up and took all the toys off her child and gave them back to mine. Of course her child disolved into tears. When she challenged me I said "if you had been paying attention to your child you would have seen that he took all those toys off my child." It felt good at the time, but it has never sat well with me over the years! I just write it off to experience.

[bid]

surely thats the same mentality the bully and their mother use to explain away their own behaviour?

 

i also noticed a lot - in general - of not taking into account any difficulties the other party have (which doesn't excuse bullying, no matter what, but can explain the reasons why) whilst expecting them to overly consider your own childs difficulties (whether they know of them or not).

 

the children i look after are almost always either bullied, or a bully themselves, so i've been on both sides of this argument, and nothing has ever been resolved by shouting offensive and hurtful things at each other. i've picked up children from the school gates and had to go appologise to another parent after witnessing the child i was collecting hurting their child, or being told about it by a teacher. thankfully i've never been shouted at for it!

 

A good point, Nobby.

 

Bid

[Suze]

surely thats the same mentality the bully and their mother use to explain away their own behaviour?

 

i also noticed a lot - in general - of not taking into account any difficulties the other party have (which doesn't excuse bullying, no matter what, but can explain the reasons why) whilst expecting them to overly consider your own childs difficulties (whether they know of them or not).

 

the children i look after are almost always either bullied, or a bully themselves, so i've been on both sides of this argument, and nothing has ever been resolved by shouting offensive and hurtful things at each other. i've picked up children from the school gates and had to go appologise to another parent after witnessing the child i was collecting hurting their child, or being told about it by a teacher. thankfully i've never been shouted at for it!

..........I agree, ...my son had a very difficult time at primary school with a group of about 6 pupils.Because my son had the disability he was seen as the problem.They banded together and things became incredibly difficult for me and I was dx with a depression/anxiety disorder I was under considerable stress with it all.However I never let myself sink to their level , and I have to say it does little to help the situation.

 

...........and why as always does it appear people are rounding on Baddad for making some very valid points?

[baddad]

I think the original post, and connieruffs additional explanation of the background and what happened needs to be read again.

My understanding is that she asked her son 'did Aaron say anything to you today', because she had been told he was supposed to apologise to your son. That is not clear from the first post Then, at that moment, Aaron's mother walked past and asked 'have you got a problem', which related to her own son getting into trouble for bullying.

So, if anyone was being agressive it was Aaron's mum

 

 

Hi sally -

 

My original response was based on the original post. My subsequent response to the second post took the additional info into account, as, I'm sure, did everyone elses... obviously i don't know anything about the other mother's attitude, or the backstory or anything like that, and yes, I would agree that her attitude to her child being disciplined wasn't (at least in so far as how she presented to connie) very reasonable... BUT

 

If you walked past a mum who was loading her child into a car and asking, 'Did (insert name of your child here) say anything to you today?' would you not ask 'do you have a problem/is there a problem?' ? That seems entirely natural to me(?)

If the mum then turned round and said 'yes i have, actually' and proceeded to tell you 'what she thought of (your) son [And i think it's safe to assume this was not a glowing report] and to tell you that you were an unfit parent ('you should bring your son up properly')' would you consider yourself the antagonist or the injured party?

Connie quite openly says in her original post 'I know i shouldn't have done it'... so why is it wrong of me or any other member to agree with her that it was not the best course of action she could have taken?

Of course, it's perfectly possible that connie was only seeking affirmation and reassurance about her behaviour from like minded parents and was seeking to 'normalise' her aggression. If that was the case, some posters have fulfilled that criteria - yourself, bikemad and frogslegs for example - and that's fine. But it is also fine, on an open forum, for other people to say 'No, i agree with the final part of connie's original post that it was the 'wrong' way to have responded', isn't it?

 

 

There seems to be this huge double standard that's being applied to the behaviour of parents of 'normal' children, and to the children themselves, and - to my mind - that's wrong. Simple as that.

 

L&P

 

BD

 

PS: Just seen Suzes post :

Thanks, hun... you've noticed, huh?

[bid]

I've always tried very hard to keep my cool with other parents, and am always biting my tongue.

But today I just flipped, I have had trouble with this particular boy bullying my son since playgroup, and it has escalated since October last year. (along with soem others) I was putting my son in his car seat today and I said to my son 'Did Aaron say anything to you today?' And just then his mum walked behind me (late as usual) as I straightened up she said 'You got a problem?' And I just saw red, I said 'Yes I have actually' and then told her what I thought of her son. And then she said 'My son was hauled in front of the head today WITHOUT ME BEING THERE' and I said well you should bring your son up properly then ...etc etc,

I know, I know shouldnt have done it - but it felt good!

 

Going back to the original post I have to say that there are phrases in there that do have aggressive connotations, and while Connie may not have meant them in that way I for one did think they came across like that Her closing sentence also implies that she knows her behaviour was not appropriate.

 

Surely none of us as parents can say that it is a good example to our children to engage in 'run ins' with other parents, whatever the situation or reason? Yes, we are advocates for our children, but we are also role models, albeit ones that may wobble sometimes.

 

Bid

 

 

 

[connieruff]

very interesting replies... and thanks everyone. I suppose my lingering thoughts about this whole saga will be that if the school had dealt with it when it was first brought to their attention then this would never have happened. Confrontation and even complaining does not come easily to me and makes me wake up in the night - cringing.

I've had a lifetime of turning the other cheek.

Anyway I've had my cofee now baddad, feel much better, thanks for your replies. Yes you do make sense, but equally so do all of the other posters here, we all have different boiling points and a lot depends on how long it has gone on for and the effect it has had on our children.

Have a good weekend everyone.

Cx

 

[Sally44]

Hi sally -

 

My original response was based on the original post. My subsequent response to the second post took the additional info into account, as, I'm sure, did everyone elses... obviously i don't know anything about the other mother's attitude, or the backstory or anything like that, and yes, I would agree that her attitude to her child being disciplined wasn't (at least in so far as how she presented to connie) very reasonable... BUT

 

If you walked past a mum who was loading her child into a car and asking, 'Did (insert name of your child here) say anything to you today?' would you not ask 'do you have a problem/is there a problem?' ? That seems entirely natural to me(?)

If the mum then turned round and said 'yes i have, actually' and proceeded to tell you 'what she thought of (your) son [And i think it's safe to assume this was not a glowing report] and to tell you that you were an unfit parent ('you should bring your son up properly')' would you consider yourself the antagonist or the injured party?

Connie quite openly says in her original post 'I know i shouldn't have done it'... so why is it wrong of me or any other member to agree with her that it was not the best course of action she could have taken?

Of course, it's perfectly possible that connie was only seeking affirmation and reassurance about her behaviour from like minded parents and was seeking to 'normalise' her aggression. If that was the case, some posters have fulfilled that criteria - yourself, bikemad and frogslegs for example - and that's fine. But it is also fine, on an open forum, for other people to say 'No, i agree with the final part of connie's original post that it was the 'wrong' way to have responded', isn't it?

 

 

There seems to be this huge double standard that's being applied to the behaviour of parents of 'normal' children, and to the children themselves, and - to my mind - that's wrong. Simple as that.

 

L&P

 

BD

 

PS: Just seen Suzes post :

Thanks, hun... you've noticed, huh?

 

HI BD,

I'm not rounding on you, I just thought the slant on the original post was different when the further posts were read.

But you are right in that the other woman could have totally interpreted what she heard as she walked past the car as you said.

But, there are some parents, with kids, who are a nightmare. And responding out of anger and frustration is not the right way to go about it. But if parents feel their child's difficulties are not being addressed in school, then it leaves parents to fight it out in the playground - not a nice thought.

Some parents are not reasonable, or even nice. I used to work for social services youth club for young offenders who were permanently excluded from school. And there was nothing wrong with those kids, that they hadn't learnt from their family environment, and there was little we could do to make those childrens' future prospects better when their parents were teaching them a life of crime.

Over time I have learnt to try not to react on the spur of the moment. But schools are also aware of the home situations of some of the children who tend to be pick on other kids and do cut them alot of slack regarding behaviour. I don't think that is a way forward either.

And as all of our children have difficulties with social interaction I think that there should automatically be adult support during playtimes and dinnertimes so that our children are not cornered out of sight of dinnerladies and submitted to all kinds of physical or verbal abuse and they have no skills available to them to defend themselves.

I'm sympathetic to all sides in this debate - and am enjoying the debate. No hard feelings towards anyone.

 

[baddad]

But if parents feel their child's difficulties are not being addressed in school, then it leaves parents to fight it out in the playground - not a nice thought.

 

 

Sorry, i still fundamentally disagree. If a child's needs are not being addressed in school there are other ways of addressing that than trying to directly engage with aggressive and dismissive parents of other children on the playground or outside of the school gates. I know some will disagree with that, and that's fine, but as bid put it:

 

Surely none of us as parents can say that it is a good example to our children to engage in 'run ins' with other parents, whatever the situation or reason? Yes, we are advocates for our children, but we are also role models, albeit ones that may wobble sometimes

 

Put it another way - if you engaged the services of a professional advocate, would you anticipate them performing in that role by having a toe to toe in the playground with the other party?

 

as far as:

 

No hard feelings towards anyone.

 

no worries and no need - I'm pretty thick skinned, and quite used to being misinterpreted around here!

 

[bid]

I don't think anyone here is denying that as parents we often get frustrated, and sometimes lose our tempers. I have never shouted at another parent, but I did once get very angry with an EWO.

 

We want the wider community to support and accept ourselves and our children. I feel very, very strongly that in return we should extend that same courtesy back to other parents and children. Within that context, it sits very uneasily with me that sadly I have often seen on various forums (both parent support ones and ASD adult ones) an aggressive attitude of 'no one messes with me or mine'

 

I was once in the surreal position (somewhere else in cyber-space) of having a very mild post expressing concern for an NT child involved in an incident with an ASD child deleted That sort of attitiude simply can't be right...can it?

 

Bid

[Karen A]

And as all of our children have difficulties with social interaction I think that there should automatically be adult support during playtimes and dinnertimes so that our children are not cornered out of sight of dinnerladies and submitted to all kinds of physical or verbal abuse and they have no skills available to them to defend themselves.

I'm sympathetic to all sides in this debate - and am enjoying the debate. No hard feelings towards anyone.

 

Hi Sally.Sorrry to digress a little but your slant on children with ASD does interest me.

I do not think Ben is some helpless soul who needs adult support because he is always the victim because of his Social Communication Difficulties.

To be honest he is more likely to be creating difficulties due to his rigid views and challenging behaviour and because he happens to be a challlenging individual like his mother.

Many children on the Forum have been extremely challenging and I do not believe they have always been challenging due to Social Communication Difficulties.

I am also aware of children with ASD being bullied by other children with ASD.

Karen.