son excluded! school send tutor?

[Karen A]

http://www.ace-ed.org.uk/advice-about-educ...ual-reviews.htm

This is the same information from ACE.Karen.

[Karen A]

http://www.autism.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly....1763&a=8791

This link contains lots of helpful hints re meetings that might be helpful for Wedensday.Karen.

[jordansmum33ok]

hi, description of unit he "was" attending until last exclusion..

The ........ currently caters for up to 40 Key Stage 3 and 4 pupils who have been identified as having severe behavioural, emotional and social difficulties. This means that they are currently unable to access mainstream education. All pupils have a statement of special educational needs.

 

It is hoped that all pupils will eventually be able to access a mainstream setting, but it is recognised that their current needs mean that they benefit from a longer-term placement at .......

 

this is where he is hving.."therapy" tomo and is a building on the same site

 

description.. this is also where tutor is based

 

The ..........provides assessment and tuition for 40 Key Stage 3 and 4 pupils with a variety of needs. The majority of pupils have been permanently excluded from their mainstream school for persistent disruptive behaviour. All pupils may or may not have additional learning needs. Many of the pupils have been identified as having behavioural, emotional and social difficulties. Some pupils have statements of special educational needs.

 

Pupils at The ........ are currently unable to access mainstream education. It is hoped that they will eventually be able to access a mainstream setting.

 

have no meeting on wednesday just be makinga call to ace.. as i have minder for my son..

 

they have not replyed to my email and no post as yet either..

[Karen A]

hi, description of unit he "was" attending until last exclusion..

The ........ currently caters for up to 40 Key Stage 3 and 4 pupils who have been identified as having severe behavioural, emotional and social difficulties. This means that they are currently unable to access mainstream education. All pupils have a statement of special educational needs.

 

It is hoped that all pupils will eventually be able to access a mainstream setting, but it is recognised that their current needs mean that they benefit from a longer-term placement at .......

 

this is where he is hving.."therapy" tomo and is a building on the same site

 

description.. this is also where tutor is based

 

The ..........provides assessment and tuition for 40 Key Stage 3 and 4 pupils with a variety of needs. The majority of pupils have been permanently excluded from their mainstream school for persistent disruptive behaviour. All pupils may or may not have additional learning needs. Many of the pupils have been identified as having behavioural, emotional and social difficulties. Some pupils have statements of special educational needs.

 

Pupils at The ........ are currently unable to access mainstream education. It is hoped that they will eventually be able to access a mainstream setting.

 

have no meeting on wednesday just be makinga call to ace.. as i have minder for my son..

 

they have not replyed to my email and no post as yet either..

 

Hi.Looking at the above information it looks like provision for children with severe emotional and behavioural difficulties.

It does not look ASD specific at all.

Do they have support from any professionals re ASD ?

Anyone like an ASD outreach teacher ?

It is probably better that the meeting is not Weds.It gives you more time.

I don't know where I got the idea of Wed .

Is there anything documented in the Statement re ASD ?

 

[jordansmum33ok]

Hi.Looking at the above information it looks like provision for children with severe emotional and behavioural difficulties.

It does not look ASD specific at all.

Do they have support from any professionals re ASD ?

Anyone like an ASD outreach teacher ?

It is probably better that the meeting is not Weds.It gives you more time.

I don't know where I got the idea of Wed .

Is there anything documented in the Statement re ASD ?

 

hi no unsure what statement reveiw says but on final which i got in 2004 it states that was awaiting diagnosis of aspergers but it was felt that thiswas

his main condition..was confirmed without doubt few weeks after.

also says other things to about 10hrs support with 1-1.. plusmore

 

at prev school which was also same type of unit they apparently recommended additions to hisstatement.. but do not know if they was added

we had numerous meetings each term so was unsure which was the statement review

i thought once you had it that was it.. only since comin on forum here i realised its reveiwed every year.. they had reveiws but we just though was reveiw of his progress

 

 

found out today from tutor that bit about recommendations.. also she isin contact with autism outreach now and talking to her tomorrow now too

 

prev school did say they did not see my son ever being able to cope in mainstream

Edited April 28, 2009 by jordansmum33ok

[jordansmum33ok]

tutor said today that his level of understanding is really quite low as even age appropiate words he did not get

i had to explain it to him.. she also said he very defensive when he doesnt understand and that "she" could sense he was anxious and getting bit stressed

ie eye contact was iratic plus fidging.. avoiding doing any work.. writing/reading.. he got annoyed at her choice of books as he saidhewas a free reader

and hates them books! ones with pics in..

 

he did show her lots of his obbession though.. lol which is a virtual world..online

 

after leaving she said to me that its his misunderstood and obv he s having huge difficulties in education, even in last school she commented on his file and exclusions

 

im getting a strong feeling he is actually being assessed.. not 1-1 tutoring

also that he is no longer allowed at school as shesaidto my son that theyare looking at a new school..

 

wish they would let me know this in writing

[Kazzen161]

The second unit sounds a bit like a PRU (Pupil Referral Unit). In our County, this is where they send children for part of the week, when they are permanently excluded (or at risk of being so). They are taught in very small groups (sometimes 1:1), and there is a strong element of working on any issues (behavioural or emotional). The staff do feed into assessments to decide if the child can rejoin mainstream after a while or if they need a different school.

[Karen A]

The second unit sounds a bit like a PRU (Pupil Referral Unit). In our County, this is where they send children for part of the week, when they are permanently excluded (or at risk of being so). They are taught in very small groups (sometimes 1:1), and there is a strong element of working on any issues (behavioural or emotional). The staff do feed into assessments to decide if the child can rejoin mainstream after a while or if they need a different school.

 

Hi.Any wisdom at all.

Could the LA transfer a pupil with a Statement to a PRU without amending the Statement ? Karen.

 

[jordansmum33ok]

The second unit sounds a bit like a PRU (Pupil Referral Unit). In our County, this is where they send children for part of the week, when they are permanently excluded (or at risk of being so). They are taught in very small groups (sometimes 1:1), and there is a strong element of working on any issues (behavioural or emotional). The staff do feed into assessments to decide if the child can rejoin mainstream after a while or if they need a different school.

 

hi yes its exactly that...

i know of 2 children.. 1/ has adhd i think diagnosed.. but i know her personally and she is very much unloved or cared for

so yes id say emionally damaged.. bless her.. but yes she does anything for attention and i mean anything. mum just gives her money an goes back to the pub

this child has attended there off an on.

 

the other is actually a relatve and mum found it funny when he stole office phones an printer

he too was violent.

 

not critizing or anything.. just explaining the 2 i know off who attended.

 

my son class is max of 6 with couple of teachers too so really is already small group.. plus i know he dont fit the critiria..

seems they are just labelling him as behaviuoral without considering the Aspergers aspect

maybe wrong but its how it seems..

The small groups they have here are older as well so tutor said so would not be option him mixing with them as there subject talk would be destressing for my son.. tutors comments.. but i agree

 

[Karen A]

hi no unsure what statement reveiw says but on final which i got in 2004 it states that was awaiting diagnosis of aspergers but it was felt that thiswas

his main condition..was confirmed without doubt few weeks after.

also says other things to about 10hrs support with 1-1.. plusmore

 

at prev school which was also same type of unit they apparently recommended additions to hisstatement.. but do not know if they was added

we had numerous meetings each term so was unsure which was the statement review

i thought once you had it that was it.. only since comin on forum here i realised its reveiwed every year.. they had reveiws but we just though was reveiw of his progress

 

 

found out today from tutor that bit about recommendations.. also she isin contact with autism outreach now and talking to her tomorrow now too

 

prev school did say they did not see my son ever being able to cope in mainstream

 

So do you not have a Statement with AS dx documented or provision for AS documented at all ?

Am I understanding you right ?

I think it might be worth contacting the LA again re the Statement.

Write to the LA SEN department [The officer responsible for Statements].Ask for a copy of the latest Statement they have for your son so that you can be certain you have the latest one.

It might also be worth asking for a copy of the report from the last annual review.There has to be an annual review for all children with Statements it is a legal requirement within the Code Of Practice.

If people are saying they do not consider your son could ever cope in mainstream please do ask them to document their views.

Please do mention the Statement and lack of documentation re ASD to NAS and/or ACE when you talk to them on Wedensday.Karen.

 

[Karen A]

tutor said today that his level of understanding is really quite low as even age appropiate words he did not get

i had to explain it to him.. she also said he very defensive when he doesnt understand and that "she" could sense he was anxious and getting bit stressed

ie eye contact was iratic plus fidging.. avoiding doing any work.. writing/reading.. he got annoyed at her choice of books as he saidhewas a free reader

and hates them books! ones with pics in..

 

he did show her lots of his obbession though.. lol which is a virtual world..online

 

after leaving she said to me that its his misunderstood and obv he s having huge difficulties in education, even in last school she commented on his file and exclusions

 

im getting a strong feeling he is actually being assessed.. not 1-1 tutoring

also that he is no longer allowed at school as shesaidto my son that theyare looking at a new school..

 

wish they would let me know this in writing

 

What is the latest you have in writing ? Karen.

 

[Karen A]

Hi .Thanks for the pm.

I had a look at the web site.There is nothing documented anywhere regarding ASD provision.

It looks like a complicated situation.The fact that the LA has a PRU based on the same site as the behaviour unit may enable the LA to attempt to argue that is an internal exclusion .They may also argue that because the move was within seperate units on the same site the Statement does not have to be amended.I am not sure.

It would be worth asking ACE.

If the tutour is only seeing your child for two hours per weeek then Kazzens earlier advice still stands.It is nowhere near the number of hours required for a full time education.Karen.

[jordansmum33ok]

What is the latest you have in writing ? Karen.

 

hi,

i have a CAF RECORD OF MEETING 5/2/09... we did have another one but no minutes from that 2/4/09

on the1st CAF its documented that he has full diagnosis of Aspergers and mild ADHD

 

other than that I have the 5day exclusion letter and the letter quoted above.. informing me ofa tutor

 

thats it.. no reply to my email either which i do normally get replies from as school know its best way to contact me, other than in writi.ng

[Karen A]

hi,

i have a CAF RECORD OF MEETING 5/2/09... we did have another one but no minutes from that 2/4/09

on the1st CAF its documented that he has full diagnosis of Aspergers and mild ADHD

 

other than that I have the 5day exclusion letter and the letter quoted above.. informing me ofa tutor

 

thats it.. no reply to my email either which i do normally get replies from as school know its best way to contact me, other than in writi.ng

 

I if you have not had a reply to the Email I think it would be worth sending a letter.Send the letter recorded delivery so that there is evidence school have recieved it.

The CAF is a different procedure.The CAF cannot replace the Annual Review.They could probably have the CAF meeting and AR at the same time but they would still have to submit a report on the AR to the LA.

Do contact the LA as I said and ask for minutes or the report from the last AR.Karen.

 

[Kazzen161]

It does sound quite messy.

 

In our County, I have known several children with Statements, who have been sent to the PRU, but they are kept on the books at the school too. Often ours attend the school for a few half-days and the PRU for two or three half days. They are kept as pupils of the school, as the aim is to get them back into mainstream full time.

 

Often the child ends up permanently excluded and then the child just goes to the PRU (still only for a few half day sesions), and they use the information from the unit, together with information from the school, in order to find another placement. This can take as long as a year, because the LA don't seem to be in any hurry. I don't think the Statement is amended until a permanent placement is found, as the PRU is only supposed to be temporary.

 

If it is decided a new school is needed, do not rely on the LA. Do you own research, and find the most suitable school for your child - where they have a good understanding of asd. It may be that he needs an asd specialist school, which may mean an independent school.

[jordansmum33ok]

thanks everyone,

i try come on here later but just quick update

i emailed The NAS and they called me today and did say to ask for emergency reveiw

apparently it isin guidlines that they can temp move to other unit etc but shesaidprovision of just 2 hrs home tutor isnot adequate

to hiseducation andalso the way they have done it doesnot seem legal

should have had ameeting etc.

 

She also said they cannot just leave it at 2hrs without a plan and til end of term is still too long

she is going to send me the guidlines to the move they took so i will post that up.

 

He has just gone off to "therapy" session now.. he was very anxious today so im hoping he be ok

only be away for about 1 an half hrs as jorney too.. so im just getting abit of head rest..

 

thanks again

[jordansmum33ok]

HI, just been given the date of annual reveiw.. June 4th

tutor just been going through it all

update more later but am pleased

[Karen A]

HI, just been given the date of annual reveiw.. June 4th

tutor just been going through it all

update more later but am pleased

 

It is good to know you are pleased.I missed your post yesterday and just noticed.

Thankyou very much for passing on the the feedback from NAS.I had not come across some of the issues before so it is nice to know that the experts broadly agree with the information we had given you. Karen.

[jordansmum33ok]

hi here is update from NAS,

MANAGED MOVE IS OPTION THEY THINK SCHOOL IS USING

 

Dear Julie

 

Further to our phone conversation earlier, please see the following extracts from guidance issued to all schools and local authorities (LAs) by the Department for Children Schools and Families in relation to exclusions in September 2008:

Alternatives to exclusion

11. A number of options may be available to head teachers/teachers in charge in response to a serious breach of behaviour policy:

a) restorative justice, which enables the offender to redress the harm that has been done to a ‘victim’, and enables all parties with a stake in the outcome to participate fully in the process. This has been used successfully to resolve situations that could otherwise have resulted in exclusion. All the professionals need to be thoroughly involved in the process and this can only work with the consent of all parties; further information is available from the Youth Justice Board at http://www.yjb.gov.uk/en-gb/practitioners/...JinSchools.htm;

mediation through a third party, usually a trained mediator, is another approach that may lead to a satisfactory outcome, particularly where there has been conflict between two parties, e.g. a pupil and a teacher, or two pupils;

c) internal exclusion which can be used to defuse situations that occur in schools that require a pupil to be removed from class but may not require removal from the school premises. The internal exclusion could be to a designated area within the school, with appropriate support and supervision, or to another class on a temporary basis, and may continue during break periods. Internal exclusion should be for the shortest time possible and should be subject to review. Learning Support Units should not be used to provide internal exclusion (further guidance on using internal exclusion is available at http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/docbank/index.cfm?id=12506 ).

d) managed move to another school to enable the pupil to have a fresh start in a new school. The head teacher may ask another head teacher to admit the pupil. This should only be done with the full knowledge and co-operation of all the parties involved, including the parents, governors and the LA, and in circumstances where it is in the best interests of the pupil concerned. In order fully to address the pupil’s difficulties it may be helpful for schools within an area to have a protocol in place and to have a full support package in place for the pupil. Parents should never be pressured

into removing their child from the school under threat of a permanent exclusion, nor should pupils’ names be deleted from the school roll on disciplinary grounds unless the formal permanent exclusion procedures set out in statute and in this guidance have been adhered to or unless a managed move has been agreed by all the relevant parties (see section on unofficial exclusions in paragraphs 27–30 of this guidance).

Unofficial exclusions

27. If a head teacher/teacher in charge is satisfied that, on the balance of probabilities, a pupil has committed a disciplinary offence and needs to be removed from the school site for that reason, formal exclusion is the only legal method of removal. Informal or unofficial exclusions are illegal regardless of whether they are done with the agreement of parents or carers.

28.Where a pupil is sent home for disciplinary reasons for part of a school day, some head teachers have viewed this as a ‘cooling off’ period, and have not taken action to exclude the pupil formally. There is no basis in law for this. The relevant regulations do not state a minimum length of exclusion. If pupils are sent home in response to a breach of discipline, even for short periods of time, this must be formally recorded as an exclusion.

29.In every instance where a pupil is sent home for disciplinary reasons, head teachers/teachers in charge must formally record and specify the length of the exclusion (for reporting purposes this should be recorded as a half day, whole day or lunchtime). They should ensure that:

they are meeting their legal duty of care towards pupils, and

that parents are formally notified of the exclusion;

child protection issues are taken into account e.g. bearing in mind the child’s age and vulnerability, that a parent/carer is at home and

the child is not placed at risk by, for example, being left to wander the streets; and

that work is sent home or alternative provision is arranged.

Guidance on good practice in preventing unofficial exclusions is available at: http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/exclusions/exclusionsguidance

30.Local authorities are required by section 436A of the Education Act 1996 to identify children of compulsory school age in their area who are not on a school roll and who are not receiving a suitable education otherwise than at school. There is a person/team in each local authority responsible for

identifying these children and systems will be in place for schools and other agencies to notify them when they believe a child may be missing from education. If it becomes apparent that these children have been unofficially excluded the local authority will need to challenge the school as this practice is illegal. More information on the duty to identify children not receiving education is available on the Every Child Matters website at: http://www.everychildmatters.gov.uk/ete/ch...ssingeducation/

Technically speaking, the school and LA are acting unlawfully by not making suitable arrangements to provide education for Jordan following his fixed term exclusion of 5 days. They may be trying to act in Jordan's best interests by trying to avoid a permanent exclusion, however, the current situation should not continue for any length of time and arrangements should be made as a matter of urgency to hold an emergency annual review meeting.

 

If you would like any further advice as things progress, please get in touch

[jordansmum33ok]

ALSO.. has anyone heard of an reveiw being held at home?

although tutor said she will invite the LEA? .. i thought they would attend anyway.. so she saidthen it would be in school..

 

she gave me copy of ammendments to statement but said it didnt look like they had been added onto statement so just reading the final statement

would not have given the staff theinformation they needed for the best education for him as they wouldnot have seen the recommendations!

 

Im actually thinking the tutor isdoing an a+ job she isalso going to get all that i asked school for via email.. so i have it all it written documentation..

 

 

[Kazzen161]

It doesn't sound like a managed move to me.

 

Generally, if a child is not doing well at a school, then the school are in communication with the LA, and when the child has had several exclusions, relations have become difficult between the child/parents and the school, and permanent exclusion is imminent - a managed move may be suggested. This usually means from one mainstream school to another. It should be discussed and agreed with all parties (including parents), and is usually done for a trial period. The child stays on the books of the original school, until the trial period is over and it is agreed that things are better at the new school. I am not keen on managed moves (as they can be used by the LA to delay providing a more suitable/specialised placement), but I know one child for whom it worked well.

 

I don't think your child was in a mainstream school, and the tutoring can't be permanent, so I am not sure how this can be a managed move.

 

June 4th is another month away - why do they need to wait so long? Unless the LA is proposing some assessments during that time, I can't see why they need to delay. The Review does not sound as though it will achieve much if the LA do not attend (eg: if the Statement needs to be re-written properly or a change of placement is needed).

[Karen A]

It doesn't sound like a managed move to me.

 

Generally, if a child is not doing well at a school, then the school are in communication with the LA, and when the child has had several exclusions, relations have become difficult between the child/parents and the school, and permanent exclusion is imminent - a managed move may be suggested. This usually means from one mainstream school to another. It should be discussed and agreed with all parties (including parents), and is usually done for a trial period. The child stays on the books of the original school, until the trial period is over and it is agreed that things are better at the new school. I am not keen on managed moves (as they can be used by the LA to delay providing a more suitable/specialised placement), but I know one child for whom it worked well.

 

I don't think your child was in a mainstream school, and the tutoring can't be permanent, so I am not sure how this can be a managed move.

 

June 4th is another month away - why do they need to wait so long? Unless the LA is proposing some assessments during that time, I can't see why they need to delay. The Review does not sound as though it will achieve much if the LA do not attend (eg: if the Statement needs to be re-written properly or a change of placement is needed).

 

Kazzen.Just wondering and know you will have more idea than me.

Don't the LA have to attend an emergency AR ? I thought the LA would have to be represented even if was the EP or another professional ?

I have looked at the web site for the current placement [pm from Jordans mum] it looks like three seperate units on one site

An BESD school [original placement]

A PRU [i think where current therapy takes place]

A unit for short term support for pupils being assessed or for short term support before reintegration to school.

I cannot understand how it can be a managed move if there is nowhere to move to. Karen.

[jordansmum33ok]

hi if its not a managed move do you know if it falls into any allowed propsal? thanks

[Karen A]

hi if its not a managed move do you know if it falls into any allowed propsal? thanks

 

Hi.Sorry I don't know.

It might be worth contacting NAS again.This one is getting a bit out of my league.

I know a bit about the general stuff but have very little experience or knowledge regarding PRUs and I don't know if the rules differ.

My gut feeeling is back with what kazzen stated several posts back.

At the very leasy you should have had a formal letter regarding the exclusion [whether it is permanent or not].

Arrangements should have been made to provide education for more than two hours a week.Karen.

 

[Kazzen161]

Don't the LA have to attend an emergency AR ? I thought the LA would have to be represented even if was the EP or another professional ?

I have looked at the web site for the current placement [pm from Jordans mum] it looks like three seperate units on one site

An BESD school [original placement]

A PRU [i think where current therapy takes place]

A unit for short term support for pupils being assessed or for short term support before reintegration to school.

I cannot understand how it can be a managed move if there is nowhere to move to. Karen.

 

Have the LA actually said it is an EMERGENCY Review? (worth checking). If the Tutor is saying that the school could not meet his needs as they did not have all the info, because it was not in the Statement (though I was always told that recommendations in Review Reports counted as updates of the Statement, and so should be read as well as the actual Statement - makes you wonder how much of the other info they read), then they may argue that if the Statement is re-written properly then he will be fine back at the original school.

 

It is difficult to work out if the LA see these schools/units as separate or as different parts of one school/provision (do they have different Ofsteds?).

 

The Code of Practice 9:36-38 talks about the annual review for children whose education is otherwise than at school (which he would be classed as in our County) - that does talk about where a Review might take place, so might be worth reading this section. Also 9:44 Interim (Early) Reviews.

 

Do you want him to go back to the BESD unit?

[Karen A]

Have the LA actually said it is an EMERGENCY Review? (worth checking). If the Tutor is saying that the school could not meet his needs as they did not have all the info, because it was not in the Statement (though I was always told that recommendations in Review Reports counted as updates of the Statement, and so should be read as well as the actual Statement - makes you wonder how much of the other info they read), then they may argue that if the Statement is re-written properly then he will be fine back at the original school.

 

It is difficult to work out if the LA see these schools/units as separate or as different parts of one school/provision (do they have different Ofsteds?).

 

The Code of Practice 9:36-38 talks about the annual review for children whose education is otherwise than at school (which he would be classed as in our County) - that does talk about where a Review might take place, so might be worth reading this section. Also 9:44 Interim (Early) Reviews.

 

Do you want him to go back to the BESD unit?

 

.I have checked the link that Jordansmum sent me.It is one pupil referal unit comprising the three sections.The OFSTED report was on the PRU unit link and I checked it.Ofsted inspected it as PRU compising the three sections.Karen.

 

 

[Kazzen161]

.I have checked the link that Jordansmum sent me.It is one pupil referal unit comprising the three sections.The OFSTED report was on the PRU unit link and I checked it.Ofsted inspected it as PRU compising the three sections.Karen.

 

It is all very messy - has he been excluded from the PRU provision as whole - or just excluded from one part and transferred to another?

 

Whatever, you need to clarify what has happened and what might happen. You need to consider whether you want him to go back to the BESD school, or if you would rather he be sent to a more specialist provision, as that will determine what you say at the review.

 

Unless they change the Statement in some way, you will not be able to go to appeal. You could always ask for a re-assessment though.

 

Are you confident that the school understands ASD and tackles you child's behaviour with that in mind?

[Kazzen161]

The info about all three parts of the PRU say that the intention is that the pupils will return to mainstream. As it seems that this is unlikely to happen for your child, perhaps it is time for the LA to think about more appropriate (ASD) provision.

 

If it was a managed move from the previous BESD school to this BESD/PRU provision, then it should have been for a trial period (a term?) and only been continued if it proved to be successful. I can't see that that is the case, in which case alternative provision should have been sought.

[jordansmum33ok]

hi, tutor said from what she has seen "the recommendations" was not on the statement.. just on seperate sheets..

she didnt say if it was emergency reveiw.. just said annual reveiw.. so i asked if it was thestatement reveiw she confirmed it was

 

said that 2 more sessions at home.. then half term.. one more session.. then reveiw.. but she said home tutoring is not helping him

its helping her understand his level of need.. a plan? finally..

 

she said they need to find out why he is still displaying same behaviuor as when he was 5.. suggested maybe itsa learnt tecnique

when he finds things difficult..

asked if he everwitnesed violence.. er.. no!

 

she is in contact with autism outreach now and saidthey are taking strong interest in this case

 

i wouldnt like him to return to any of the behaviuor units as i dont think they are working for him.. as he has had numerous exclusions

just want all the opinions in writting..

 

 

he was stressed yesterday and told his therapist he just wants to go to school.. misses he friends.. wants to be good

 

then he told tutor he wants to go mainstream.. got quite anti with her.. when she asked why he thought it would be better.. he said it just was..

 

he said all i was doing was playing wrestling with my friend then the teachers followed me/grabbed me

 

surely school should know the difference? andalso not let the wrestling play start.. its written down he does not know boundaries.. ie where limit is..

 

im worred one day he wont want to go to any school..

 

tutor saihe is a 12yr old with the understanding of an age 8.. although intelligent.. but strength of a man..

 

sorry ranting abit today..

 

on a good note he said i can teach him PE and SEX education..

pe is his favourite lesson..Sex ed.. being his worst..

 

i would like him to go to autism school or unit.. but dont want another placement where its just exclusion after exclusion..

thanks again and if missed anything im sorry.. frantic morning

Edited May 1, 2009 by jordansmum33ok

[jordansmum33ok]

It is all very messy - has he been excluded from the PRU provision as whole - or just excluded from one part and transferred to another?

 

he was on a 5 day fixed term exclusion.. to this 2 hrs home tutoring.. from tutor in the other unit.. does not seem to be allowed in the unit he was based..

was told "home tutor" or "nothing"... had no meeting with school to discuss and they have not responded to my email.. tutor has list of my questions/reports so said she will chase up the answers..

so basically.. i dont know.. i just know the above.

 

Whatever, you need to clarify what has happened and what might happen. You need to consider whether you want him to go back to the BESD school, or if you would rather he be sent to a more specialist provision, as that will determine what you say at the review.

 

Unless they change the Statement in some way, you will not be able to go to appeal. You could always ask for a re-assessment though.

 

im told they are changing the statement as his needs have changed alot even in line with the recommendations.. that did not appear to have actually been added to statement.. no diagnosis of ASPERGERS added onto statement..

 

Are you confident that the school understands ASD and tackles you child's behaviour with that in mind?

 

whenever we had regeneration meeting after exclusion they would say thats typical as behaviour..

so to me itappeared they had experience in ASD plus came highly recommended by his previous head of unit

he thought it would be great for him..

me personally i feel like he has gone back to his 1st yr off school.. mainstream..

teachers who said "we have experience ofAUTISM" BUT "never had a boy like this! too many triggers.. too hard for us to deal with"

 

never thought we would be back at that stage.. so no.. no confidence.

 

 

hope itsok me answering underneath as i loose myself otherwise

thanks again

 

[Sally44]

Your situation does sound very complex. Please be sure to get advice from the agencies posted, especially before you agree to anything. Is there anyone coming with you to this annual review/emergency review? I would recommend you had someone with you - I don't know who it would be. I don't know if the parent partnership are up to this. I presume so because they do know all about exclusion procedure and SEN procedures. So they might be worth considering.

From your last post it says that he is intelligent. So any new suggested placement has to bear that in mind. And the behavioural placement he has been in doesn't sound ASD specific. So, maybe an ASD specific placement for children on the national curriculum levels, which also has experience of behavioural issues - just a suggestion. But an ASD specific placement should be more able to actually identify what his areas of difficulty are as his behaviour may be coming from just not understanding and coping and the inappropriate behaviour is the only way he has got that shows he isn't happy. They may need to go right back to the beginning with supports and build up from there to teach him lots of different strategies to communicate his emotional state and whether he needs help etc.

I really, really hope that something good and positive comes out of this for all of you.

[Karen A]

hi, tutor said from what she has seen "the recommendations" was not on the statement.. just on seperate sheets..

she didnt say if it was emergency reveiw.. just said annual reveiw.. so i asked if it was thestatement reveiw she confirmed it was

 

said that 2 more sessions at home.. then half term.. one more session.. then reveiw.. but she said home tutoring is not helping him

its helping her understand his level of need.. a plan? finally..

 

she said they need to find out why he is still displaying same behaviuor as when he was 5.. suggested maybe itsa learnt tecnique

when he finds things difficult..

asked if he everwitnesed violence.. er.. no!

 

she is in contact with autism outreach now and saidthey are taking strong interest in this case

 

i wouldnt like him to return to any of the behaviuor units as i dont think they are working for him.. as he has had numerous exclusions

just want all the opinions in writting..

 

 

he was stressed yesterday and told his therapist he just wants to go to school.. misses he friends.. wants to be good

 

then he told tutor he wants to go mainstream.. got quite anti with her.. when she asked why he thought it would be better.. he said it just was..

 

he said all i was doing was playing wrestling with my friend then the teachers followed me/grabbed me

 

surely school should know the difference? andalso not let the wrestling play start.. its written down he does not know boundaries.. ie where limit is..

 

im worred one day he wont want to go to any school..

 

tutor saihe is a 12yr old with the understanding of an age 8.. although intelligent.. but strength of a man..

 

sorry ranting abit today..

 

on a good note he said i can teach him PE and SEX education..

pe is his favourite lesson..Sex ed.. being his worst..

 

i would like him to go to autism school or unit.. but dont want another placement where its just exclusion after exclusion..

thanks again and if missed anything im sorry.. frantic morning

 

Does the tutour have any experience or training in ASD at all ?

I am just a bit concerened because from what you have posted it sounds like she may not understand ASD very well ?

It is a concern if she is saying she is the one assessing his level of need ?

I do not have any experience of PRUs however we do work with CAMHS psychotherapists who work with children with BESD.Some professionals with that sort of background can tend to think that challenging behaviour is related to witnessing violence or learned behaviour.They do not always have a lot of knowledge of ASD and may not know that in ASD challenging behaviour can also be related to lack of social understanding or as a response to stress.

Do you know what the therapists actual job title is ?

I am confused.

Is Jordan seeing tutor at home and the therapist at the unit ?

Is the therapist seeing him as part of an assessment or this regular therapy that is contiuing ?

Sorry to keep asking questions but it is very complicated.

Have you had a response from the director of children's services yet ?

I cannot understand how they can continue with just two hours a week tuition and that could be legal .I also cannot understand how they can remain within the COP if the five day exclusion is long gone and they have not formally excluded him.

Did you write requesting an emergency review ? I can't see things getting very far if the LA are not present.Karen.

[jordansmum33ok]

hi letter has been sent.. no reply as yet.. but tutor has given me reveiw date now so unsure if there would be 2 meetings?

 

autism outreach are advising tutor.. i think she has some experience.. she gives examples of other children she worked with.. but yes im right there

with ya! on the behavioural andnot linking it to autism..

im going to ask ifautism outreach can attend as they was invited prev to the caf meeting and failed to attend or appologise also his consultant peadatrician

did not attend or appologise..

 

his therapy..used to be at his prev school too so she knows him well.. she actually has soft spot for him..

saidshe fit him in no matter what.. so its been ongoing and is there to help his self esteem and confidence building.. i look up her

job title as cannot think at moment..

 

i have had experience of parents /partnerships.. so yes its an option.. as im not great at meetings

not imtimidated by proffesionals as worked with them.. for very long time but it can get complicated and im not up on all the thingsthey should be doing so yes am looking atwho would be best to take to reveiw.

[Karen A]

Hi again.I had not spotted Kazzen161 last two posts from last night and have just read them.

She has far more knowledge in this area than myself and has given some excellent advice.

 

If the BESD school does not understand ASD very well then having a placement in that sort of environment can make challenging behaviour worse.

Children with ASD may copy challenging behaviour which is being demonstrated by others with BESD.

As Kazzen says the difficulty is that if at the annual review they do not make any changes to the Statement then you cannot go to tribunal to appeal.

You could however then request a reassessment as Kazzen says.

I think Kazzen and myself appear to be in agreement that it would be worth looking at specialist provision for teenagers with ASD.

That could be within your area or out of area.

It could be LA or private and funded by the Local Authority through a Statement that documents that specialist provision in ASD is required.

There is specialist private provision that can manage teenagers with ASD and challenging behaviour and who have average or above average intelligence.It might be worth considering whether it might be an option you would want to consider.It might be residential and out of area but may be worth thinking about.

As I said there are others who have decided that that was the most appropriate option.Karen.

[Karen A]

hi letter has been sent.. no reply as yet.. but tutor has given me reveiw date now so unsure if there would be 2 meetings?

 

autism outreach are advising tutor.. i think she has some experience.. she gives examples of other children she worked with.. but yes im right there

with ya! on the behavioural andnot linking it to autism..

im going to ask ifautism outreach can attend as they was invited prev to the caf meeting and failed to attend or appologise also his consultant peadatrician

did not attend or appologise..

 

his therapy..used to be at his prev school too so she knows him well.. she actually has soft spot for him..

saidshe fit him in no matter what.. so its been ongoing and is there to help his self esteem and confidence building.. i look up her

job title as cannot think at moment..

 

i have had experience of parents /partnerships.. so yes its an option.. as im not great at meetings

not imtimidated by proffesionals as worked with them.. for very long time but it can get complicated and im not up on all the thingsthey should be doing so yes am looking atwho would be best to take to reveiw.

 

Hi again.I would strongly recommend asking Parent Partnership to attend.Also do ensure that Autism outreach are invited.

To be honest if there are any professionals who could come and support you I would be enclined to invite them to attend.

All of the professionals involved should be invited to an annual review.

You could ask the therapist although the person that works with Ben never comes because she prefers to keep her work with him seperate.The psychotherapist that works with OH and myself does usually attend though.

If you find that Autism outreach and other significant people cannot attend it might be worth asking that the AR is rescheduled for a date when they can.

If the AR goes ahead and nothing is changed because the people that might support you are not there it could do more harm than good. Karen.

 

[Karen A]

Do you have a named professional ?

They would have been appointed at one of the CAF meetings to coordinate the various support and input ?

Edited to add.You should have had a response from the Director Of Children's Services regardless of whether the Annual Review was arranged.

When did you send the letter ? Karen.

Edited May 1, 2009 by Karen A

[jordansmum33ok]

Hi again.I had not spotted Kazzen161 last two posts from last night and have just read them.

She has far more knowledge in this area than myself and has given some excellent advice.

 

If the BESD school does not understand ASD very well then having a placement in that sort of environment can make challenging behaviour worse.

Children with ASD may copy challenging behaviour which is being demonstrated by others with BESD.

As Kazzen says the difficulty is that if at the annual review they do not make any changes to the Statement then you cannot go to tribunal to appeal.

You could however then request a reassessment as Kazzen says.

I think Kazzen and myself appear to be in agreement that it would be worth looking at specialist provision for teenagers with ASD.

That could be within your area or out of area.

It could be LA or private and funded by the Local Authority through a Statement that documents that specialist provision in ASD is required.

There is specialist private provision that can manage teenagers with ASD and challenging behaviour and who have average or above average intelligence.It might be worth considering whether it might be an option you would want to consider.It might be residential and out of area but may be worth thinking about.

As I said there are others who have decided that that was the most appropriate option.Karen.

 

yes im very interested in getting him into asd school.. not residential as at home he is manageable.. i think he would be deeply upset to be away from me..

as im his safe person.. well im his mum lol

 

if he wanted to of course i would not stop him but at present just a school that understood him and could manage him would be great.

 

i was told before ifthey have severe beh problems and are violent then an ASD school would not accept him..

 

i have alist of schools i have seen notfar from our area and covered by LEA ..

 

 

 

[jordansmum33ok]

Do you have a named professional ?

They would have been appointed at one of the CAF meetings to coordinate the various support and input ?

Edited to add.You should have had a response from the Director Of Children's Services regardless of whether the Annual Review was arranged.

When did you send the letter ? Karen.

 

letter was only sent monday i think.. i check

 

i did have a co-ordinator but since he now not at school .. they are not communicating with me..

seems all been passed to "tutor" who seemsto be liasing now with everyone..

not sure of her job title.. according to Jordan she is an art teacher!!... she did suggest craft work.. she gota very strong frown from Jordan

 

 

[Karen A]

yes im very interested in getting him into asd school.. not residential as at home he is manageable.. i think he would be deeply upset to be away from me..

as im his safe person.. well im his mum lol

 

if he wanted to of course i would not stop him but at present just a school that understood him and could manage him would be great.

 

i was told before ifthey have severe beh problems and are violent then an ASD school would not accept him..

 

i have alist of schools i have seen notfar from our area and covered by LEA ..

 

Some ASD specialist schools do take teenagers with challenging behaviour as it is a specialit area of their work.However usually they are residential.

People here in similar situations to yours are usually managing very challenging bahaviour at home as well as school and hence the need for a twenty four hour curriculum.

I was just wondering is it that you feel that you are prepared to cope with challenging behaviour in order for Jordan to stay at home or is he not as challenging at home ?

If Jordan is not as challenging at home then that just raises a question for me about whether it is the school environment or provision that is not right.

I can understand your feelings as I think I would feel exactly the same about Ben being in residential.

There was a thread about residential a while ago I will see if I can find it.Karen.

 

[Karen A]

letter was only sent monday i think.. i check

 

i did have a co-ordinator but since he now not at school .. they are not communicating with me..

seems all been passed to "tutor" who seemsto be liasing now with everyone..

not sure of her job title.. according to Jordan she is an art teacher!!... she did suggest craft work.. she gota very strong frown from Jordan

 

Sorry have to laugh.Ben would have told her where to put her craft equipment and it would not be in her bag.