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call me jaded

1 in 10 children with autism overcome the condition

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mm does intense behaviour therapy not just mean they LEARNED not to display autistic red flags? also i wonder if this would work with issues like speech delays?

like yourself jaded i would like to see this report in full.

sonj

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Some of the children in the study, which is still ongoing, were diagnosed by an autism specialist before the age of five but no longer meet the diagnostic criteria for autism.

 

Mmmm, wonder what that means?!

 

Bid :unsure:

 

 

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Hi

 

I believe that children and adults can learn to live with having an ASD ie develop ways of coping or managing. I do not believe that children or adults can effectively be cured of a condition which is a neurological lifelong condition.

 

Caroline.

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Hi.If the research was conducted on teenagers up until the age of 18 then I have an interesting thought.I wonder what long term research over the life span would show regarding ASD.I think that with an awful lot of intensive input and with a supportive environment it might be possible for a teenager to become so well functioning that they appear to not fit the criteria.However I wonder what the picture might be like several years later when support and intensive input is not provided and the individual experiences events which are stressful.

There is a significant but extremely important difference between suggesting that an individual with ASD might be adapted well enough to the environment to not appear to fit the criteria for a diagnosis at the time reassessed and stating that they are cured.Karen.

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I keep seeing these words 'cured' and 'recovered'. Would someone please explain what exactly is it that needs to be 'cured' or what I'm supposed to 'recover' from? :angry:

 

On a more serious level I do wonder if this kind of 'recovery' is very much down to mis-diagnosis at an early age (I stress, this is just an idea off the top of my head - more than happy to be told I'm talking gibberish)(as per usual). At such a young age the brain is still developing so that could imply that it simply hasn't finished developing to 'normal' standards (term 'normal' used reservedly). In other words, the child never was autistic and naturally gets 'cured'...as there was nothing to 'cure' in the first place.

 

The flip side could be as Caroline and Karen say - they don't 'recover', they learn to adapt, manage and cope. In a sense this can be seen as a 'recovery' but the 'cure' is cognitive rather than the underlying neurological structure being changed. In effect the 'problem' (term used reservedly) hasn't changed (i.e. the brain doesn't physically change) but the person has 'learned' how to fit in, how to respond etc.

 

When are the 'experts' going to realise that you don't 'get better' with an ASD, you simply develop alternative approaches and strategies that allow you to better deal with the world. As way of a really awful analogy (and apologies in advance if I offend anyone - that's not my aim), someone born without legs isn't 'cured' of 'not having legs' by being given a wheelchair - they've simply been given a tool to better deal with their lack of mobility. The same applies to an ASD - you are what you are...and, over time, you get given and develop 'tools' to help deal with the world - that's not the same as a 'cure'.

 

I'm an idiot and I understand this...so why can't professor types? :huh:

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Erm... just my personal opinion, but Cods - and dangerous cods at that.

The likilihood that a five year therapy plan can overcome a genetic difference in the structure of the brain seems erm, unlikely...

Much more likely - in an era when diagnosis has gone through the roof, is often being made earlier in a changing climate where boundaries are being redifined almost daily and where casual diagnosis appears to be on the increase - is that 1 in ten children are being inappropriately diagnosed in the first place. While that figure sounds shocking, consider that in context to the percent of children being diagnosed now to, say, 10 years ago, and that still leaves an absolutely massive increase in need of explanation...

Couple that with the additional factor of very intense behavioural modification programmes (the subjects of which - if this quote from the article is accurate : The findings, presented by University of Connecticut psychology professor Deborah Fein, suggest the children recovered after undergoing years of intensive behavioural therapy - are the very children being scrutinised) designed to 'norlmalise' the physical characteristics usually apparent, and you've actually got a scenario where NOT finding indications of more 'normal' behaviours would be surprising!

 

None of that, of course, even begins to take in really serious considerations like the validity of the study in terms of information gathering, how the results were 'measured' how the tests were conducted, potential personal, political or commercial bias etc etc etc...While it would be unfair to speculate, what is Dr Feins 'interest' in this study and what is the 'interest' of the clients who have engaged her services?

 

And how can the results of this survey possibly be attributed to any sort of intervention in the first place? How can anyone reasonably 'prove' that the 'cure' happened because of the intervention? Even if they had a study group of children who didn't receive the therapy and didn't improve it would still be purely speculative unless every other factor of the child's life was controlled to provide completely identical conditions, and the underlying 'cause' of the behaviours was accurately pinpointed to a specific and identical trigger!

 

L&P

 

BD :D (aka professor plum)

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Hi.I would not be surprised if there is an element of over diagnosis.Even for older children as I have debated at length elsewhere the current system of diagnosis still very much involves a degree of professional opinion.Diagnosis is not an exact science.

Ben would be an ideal candidate for involvement in this study.He has a diagnosis of AS having fulfilled the criteria stipulated in the 3di which is supposed to be the most accurate assessment tool.However the psychotherapists who know Ben better than any other professionals were absolutely convinced that the 3di would show he does not have AS.They still say that at times Ben is able to show a level of empathy and theory of mind that an individual with AS should not be able to have.To be honest there are times when I ask myself whether Ben has AS.However at other times,most usually when he is excited or anxious it is much more obvious why Ben has an AS diagnosis.

 

I don't think from my experience that it is so remarkable that the results of the research could be obtained.

However evidence that would be far more convincing would be if the individuals were less ''borderline '' AS.

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Gosh this got me thinking :blink: .......

 

my son was dx aged 7 yrs with an ASD/damp, he also has dyslexia and dyspraxia and sensory problems.

 

.............When he was 7 all the behaviours/characteristics he had were attributed to autism.When the ed physch saw him in school it was noted he made no ye contact appeared deeply depressed and unable to communicate.I remember him as he was then quite distinctly he had a very unsympathetic teacher who kept him in every break to finish his work and re write all his work as well (as he made so many mistakes due to his dyslexia).At the time he was also starting to be ostracised by his peers as he struggled socially .

 

 

Today he is 13 and he has been statemented and attends a high school autism resource.Most of the triggers to his more extreme autisic symptons have disappeared, he uses the unit at break and dinner so does,nt get picked on or suffer the noise and crowds so this makes him happier / more comfortable.He has a TA to help him in classes with his writing etc, He still has periods of depressive behaviour and likes to be by himself etc , but I wonder if he saw a physch now if he would be dx .However take away the support he gets and I,m sure without a doubt that he would deteriorate rapidly again , we ,ve seen it hapen during holidays and stressful times.

I guess what I,m saying is give kids the support and treatment to help them and behaviours will improve and lessen , but underlying all that my son still is autistic and blinkin lovely :thumbs:

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I have been thinking about this research today and another thing struck me.

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.ph...rmal+pretending

 

Although this long term thread that is a long time interest of Nellie [ :notworthy::) ] is not a scientific study many people have identified with the idea that some children with ASD are able to adapt to some extent.They must have found some way of adapting at school in order not to be noticed.However this obviously does not support the theory that they no longer have ASD.

I wonder whether children with ASD who undergo an intensive behavioural programme where they are rewarded for suppressing ASD type behaviours might learn to appear to not have ASD.That would not make them cured any more than a child who is pretending to be normal in school is cured.

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Simply, autism is a check-list of behavours, and therapy that addresses those behaviours WILL be effective. I donn't think we can read anything more into it than that.

 

Did I post the research about the 1000% increase in autism diagnoses in California?

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It is a bit different for me than most here because when my son was diagnosed 12 years most professionals did not know what it was in the education and medical system and the diagnosis was given by paediatrician who clearly understood what it was but was reluctant to label due to predjudice the child would receive and did so in order to access the help he needed but he never got it because they didn't understand it, it was very frustrating and did a lot of damage as then he just got a whole bunch of predjdice, that made things worse. I think if he had got speech therapy at ayounger age such as 2 or 3 instead of insulting me and calling me an overanxious ambitious mother etc as they did not understand it, finally it was decided he severe language problems by the time he was 12, and I could not force him to have speech therapy at that age as they made him feel like c**p, had he had it younger maybe those problems would not have got worse but they did not know what semantic pragmatic disorder was.

 

I used to work more than 20 years before I knew what autism was on sensory processing materials for montessori work,, I didn ot know my son had asd as Ihad nothing to compare until my second child, but I did a lot of work with him which I think masked the level of difficulties he actually had and we did our own speech therapy at age 3 and 4 for rewards etc. that is how he learnt to talk, he just learnt parrot style whole sentences as clear as day but meant nothing to him, so for many years it did mask the level of difficulty he was having, he was very distressed in school, it was awful and that was how I eventually worked out that there was something really not right as he regressed each year rather than improving.

 

I think it is possible improve to a level where the difficulties are managed and no longer a problem but I think depending on type/level of difficulty some children may improve more than others, it depends how much other factors such as environmental causes or another reason are involved. I believe improvements will be most by trying and utilising all resources that are specific to you from sensory integration, cranialosteopathy, diet, etc.

 

 

 

I guess everyone is different too

Edited by florrie

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When I was a teenage, not longer after Dx(AS) I did quite a bit of cognative behavoural therapy.Before Dx i found it difficult to see where I was different from other and what i did differently. Once you are at an age where you can understand you are different and you do/see x, y and z differently its much easier to do CBT to learn how to react the way a NT person would react. I did the CBT for about a year and the results have really helped me get much further in my life then I would have as a typical aspie. Now when people meet me at first and often when they are around me in a non intense environment they would never be able to tell I have AS, which has caused me no end of issues. At one point an organisation I worked for wanted me to "change" the way i communicate as it was convienent for them that when Im suffering sensory overload and you phone me and add more pressuere I will just hang up the phone! people dont see my AS so expect me not to have AS. I would say I am far from being cured or recovered. I literally developed mechanisms and systems to be ables to act like a NT person. However it takes a great deal of concentraition and energy to pull it off and often r/ships are hard as when you get home you just want to relax or are tired and find it hard to be like a NT person. All in all I would say dont put your hopes in it being a cure, however being able to help yourself or child after Dx by helping yourself/them develop the mechanisms I have will help you/them in life massively.

 

kerr

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I'm with BD on this one. it don't add up for me, and that's coming from an Aspie who did sociology at A level and still retains such a high interest in the matter.

 

please note the following point; the article is clearly titled with the phrase 'overcome the condition'this in itself makes a huge difference from what we thing as people and what we perceive the article to say but it also tells us that it is a study which for the majority of will reek of bovine by product, as it is already telling us something we already know.

 

from what I gather, Like some of the other contributors in this thread, is that this study is in fact showing that 1 in 10 children/people with autistic conditions (saves me writing all those abbreviations in that article) can be, let's say, 'trained' to not exhibit certain behaviours or natures, which to me isn't really overcoming the condition in it's true sense. it is overcoming the condition, but what one has to realise, step back and dwell on is that fact that this is only short term unless long term support (and the correct support at that) is provided to keep this up.

 

on a whole, it really does depend on the child, that is another problem that I find with these reports and study cases. A lot of these cases ignore the fact, or do not factor into their statistics, that the way one asperger's child will behave will be different from another asperger's child. I'm A-typical Asperger's and if you stuck me in the room with an asperger's child yes, certain behaviours would remain the same, admittedly, but I would perhaps do things or exhibit different behaviours in some areas.

 

this then raises more questions on validity. if the above paragraph is taken into true context, then how can this study be valid at all? (Of course, If I get the opportunity to read it, I shall do so) because if you can't measure autistic progresses and behaviours in a standardised way, which i will admit is quite difficult, then how can you have a reputeable report which says that XYZ is the answer when it could be FGH which is?? the way the medical world diagnoses children with ASD/AS and all that have that set criteria from the studies of hans asperger and such other researchers from years ago, what it doesn't do is say what those little differences between two kids are, if you get me????

 

Anyway it will be interesting when the report is complete and it is published publicly for all to see.

 

bbkr

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