Mild Autism?

[MrsD]

Hi all,

 

I'm new to this forum, I posted on Meet & Greet recently. I have twins, soon to be 3 years old. I posted originally about my son who I know has autism (moderate has been suggested by the psychologist). He's not been formally diagnosed yet but the CARS form was done last week. There's loads of stuff going on with professionals and he will be diagnosed soon.

 

Anyway, this post is about his twin sister! She has some odd behaviour. I would call it odd but these are my only 2 children so they're all I've known. She is on the waiting list for the psychologist too. I've spoke to the psychologist in the past about her minor quirky ways and last week she suggested my daughter may be mildly affected by autism. I'm not too worried because it's so minor I think she will overcome the problems in time.

 

I would really appreciate any opinions you may have on her 'strange' behaviour. I personally do think there is some ASD there. This is what I think is strange:

 

If she has a cardigan/coat with a hood on, it ALWAYS has to be up, even if it's hot and sunny.

She absolutely refuses to move to a bed, says she doesn't like it. I bought her a bed a year ago and sold it 6 months later because there was no way she was going in a bed.

There's a small extra quilt hanging over the end of her cot which was used on cold nights. As it's warmer now, I took it off to put it away in the airing cupboard. She got very distressed and told me to put it back.

Shoe shopping is a complete nightmare. I took her to Clarks last week, you had to see it to believe it. She tried to hit the assistant, threw the new shoes, kicked/ screamed/shouted, tried to grab and throw the shoe gauge at the assistant (needless to say we didn't get any new shoes).

She refuses to wear anything in her hair. I put my hair in bunches (and her dollies), she went spare, pulling them out.

She refuses to wear skirts & dresses. If you can manage to get one on, she's hysterical/distressed.

Our car is parked in the drive, when we go anywhere, 99% of the time I turn right. When I turn left, she creates, shouts, screams, "wrong way" "other way".

She's just started having to walk up into the car (she used to be lifted in to the car seat). Recently she has to say "up the step" and get herself into the car. If I don't allow her to do this she creates, goes rigid on me and wants to get out and do it again.

I bought a different coloured beaker, same as she already has. She said she don't like it, pushes it away and won't drink out of it.

 

That's most of the things which I think are strange. Saying that, she has brilliant eye contact, is a little behind with her speech and is very good in social situations, maybe a little shy sometimes.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

Dee

[pookie170]

ooooo, shoe shopping!!!!

We went through that today, my eldest would have spat one shoe off his foot if he could have, he said it felt terrible.....

 

I really can't say whether or not I think your daughter is on the spectrum. It's impossible without knowing her, IMO. I agree, some of her foibles seem rather impassioned, but a holistic approach is vital for DX'ing....

One thing I ask you to bear in mind is that my youngest, who is NT, has displayed many behaviours that I'm positive he's learned from being with his AS brother so much. He's only really mixing with other kids now, because I can't let his big brother out alone and didn't feel he was old enough to go it alone....or even that it was fair to give such freedom to one child, but deny it to the other. His big brother was his only benchmark for interacting with other kids......that was one of the reasons why I was keen for him to get extra hours at nursery, which really helped him. Do you think that might be a factor for your daughter?

I'm not pooh-poohing your concerns- I have such great respect for parental instinct, and you're doing the right thing by getting her on the list to be assessed. Hopefully it won't be too long till you get some answers.

 

Take care,

Esther x

[MrsD]

Thanks Esther. I understand what you're saying. Yes, I know there is no doubt in my mind that my son has ASD. I do not need a diagnosis to tell me that. If the professionals spent a week in my house (even 24 hrs) they would know themselves!

 

However, I'm not sure about my daughter being on the spectrum but I do have concerns. It's not possible that she has learned the behaviour from her brother because he does not present any of the same ASD traits as she does. He doesn't object to change of routine, no problem with clothes or shoes (although getting fitted for a new pair can be a bit difficult).

 

As for shoes, I don't even want to think about it. I told my daughter again that today we would go to the shop and get new shoes. It was an absolute "no, I like the ones with holes in". I may try and get an exact pair like she already has but in next size, do you think she might accept that?

 

I'm heard people mention "autistic tendencies". Does this mean they are not on the spectrum?

 

Thanks.

 

Dee

[Sally44]

Most of the things you've mentioned my son would also do. He has an autistic spectrum disorder.

Most of the things you mention are about 'change' and 'transitions' and 'sensory issues'.

As you know, those on the spectrum like things to be the same. Even the smallest change in the routine or environment can make it unrecognisable to them, or confuse them to the extent that they don't know what to do.

This can also be tied into a way of learning called gestalt. It is when things are learnt in whole chunks, or routines, or sequence/order. For example a child might be able to recognise the words in one book, but not in another one.

Transitions is about moving from one thing to another. There can be difficulty with the actual 'change' or difficultings with 'starting' or 'stopping'.

My son also sometimes talks himself through tasks. He also often repeats words/dialogues or dance routines he has seen on TV.

He too likes to play with other children. Now he is 8 he has been supported and is having more success. When he was younger he still wanted to play but wanted the children to say and do exactly what he wanted, which was usually a repetition of something he had seen on TV.

Sensory issues, yes we have lots of those! The shoe shopping might have been about not wanting to stop wearing her old shoes. Or it might have been how the new shoes felt. Or the sensory demands of the environment or the language demands of the task. My own son is hyper sensitive to touch, smell, taste etc. Yet he can also not feel when he has hurt himself. So sensory issues can mean that they fluctuate between being over and under sensitive.

I found a really useful book by a woman called Olga Bogdashina called Sensory and Perceptual Differences in Autism and Aspergers.

I would also recommend that her language and social interaction skills are assessed. Girls are typically quicker to talk and are better at it. But she may still have significant difficulties with receptive/expressive language or literaly interpretation although her language 'sounds' okay. And she may struggle more as she gets older as the demands on her become greater.

[baddad]

Soon-to-be-three year old's do behave strangely sometimes - it's part of being three. Some of the things you write sound more like confusion in the parent/child role dynamic - she's telling you what she will/won't do rather than the other way around. Of course, that doesn't rule out the possibilty that she has autism, but the fact that she is very good in social situations (when she wants to be! Obviously not in shoe shops!) and makes good/appropriate eye contact intuitively) are definitely contradictory. Additionally, autism - if she did have it - wouldn't necessarily be the reason for the behaviours you describe. She could be autistic and still be behaving like a three year old.

 

Hope that's helpful

 

L&P

 

BD

[bid]

What about more specifically 'autistic' behaviour?

 

Does she engage in symbolic play with her toys and so on?

 

Does she walk on her toes, flap her hands, have non-maintained eye contact?

 

Does she 'share' things with you, i.e. pointing to show you things, bringing things to show you/engage with you (e.g. toys, books).

 

Does she line things up, spin things, do exactly the same things on everyday walks (i.e. touching the same wall at the same places every single time)?

 

These are just some of the things that I can remember my DS doing/not doing when he was 3...don't know if that helps at all.

 

Bid

[MrsD]

Thanks all for your replies. You've certainly given me more to think about!

 

Bid - Sorry about quoting your post, I'm sure I clicked on reply, must have done something wrong there!

 

There is no specific 'autistic' behaviour, only the things I mentioned. No spinning, hand flapping, 'deafness' or lining things up. I've not seen much symbolic play.

 

The things which don't add up to autism is:

 

Her imaginary play is very good - for instance when she is playing in the garden she sometimes goes to the shops for me with imaginary shopping bag, brings back imaginary food and hands it to me.

She plays with dolls houses & figures really well.

Her eye contact is excellent.

Pointing excellent and often.

 

She is definitely behind with her speech, so much so, that my son's speech therapist noticed on a home visit and has 'taken her on'.

 

The psychologist is visiting us again next week, purely to chat about my daughter. I will mention all these things to her.

 

Dee

Edited June 9, 2009 by MrsD

[julieann]

 

I'm heard people mention "autistic tendencies". Does this mean they are not on the spectrum?

 

Thanks.

 

Dee

Hi Dee

Don't be fobbed off with "autistic tendencies and traits of autism " These diagnosis give you no help in the education system. It means the person accessing isn't sure if your child ticks all the boxes. Your child either has autism or they don't. If you get this diagnosis you need to ask to be reaccessed. I can't find the information at the moment but I think it is Tony Attwood and Lorna Wing who both agree that tendencies and traits of autism are not a proper diagnosis.

 

Julieann

[julieann]

 

 

Hi Dee,

 

 

There is no specific 'autistic' behaviour, only the things I mentioned. No spinning, hand flapping, 'deafness' or lining things up. I've not seen much symbolic play.

 

Hi Dee,

 

My son 19 has asperger's syndrome. He doesn't hand flap,spin or line things up. he does however wear coats and hats in the Summer and T-shirts with not much else in the Winter.

 

The difficulties with imagination that people on the spectrum encounter is "Theory of mind" - understanding what other people will think and do. Many aspies have very good imagination and enjoy role play and writing very imaginative stories.

 

Julieann

[ScienceGeek]

My son 19 has asperger's syndrome. He doesn't hand flap,spin or line things up. he does however wear coats and hats in the Summer and T-shirts with not much else in the Winter.

 

Julieann

 

Wow! I never met anyone else that did that. I used to wear a coat and jumper in the height of summer, and hardly anything in winter. I'm a lot better now than I was.

[gaijin]

Have you looked at OCD? Goes hand in hand with aspergers alot of the time. Just a thought.

[baddad]

The difficulties with imagination that people on the spectrum encounter is "Theory of mind" - understanding what other people will think and do. Many aspies have very good imagination and enjoy role play and writing very imaginative stories.

 

Julieann

 

Hi julieann -

theory of mind is something children only start to develop at around the age of two - it's one of the key milestones in development ("terrible twos" - exactly the kind of awareness that children start to develop of their own ability to 'control' their environment via behaviours). A child who is displaying imagination/imaginative play at the age of 2 - 3 is hitting that milestone. Not hitting it is one of the 'key' elements of diagnostics of autistic spectrum disorders, though most at the AS/HF end of the spectrum will subsequently develop some skills in this area.

A diagnosis of autistic tendencies is not 'fobbing off' - it is a term used to describe children who show some aspects of autistic behaviour but do not have a range of behaviours that would indicate a clear diagnosis of autism. I don't like the term either - because I think it's a 'catch all' diagnosis that completely undermines the realities of the condition. I think it's often used now to placate parents who have made their own diagnosis and pursue it rigorously despite the assurances of professionals who feel that no ASD is in fact present. In that sense it is a 'fobbing off' and not a proper diagnosis, but offered for very different reasons. Autistic 'traits' are observable in every human being on the planet.

The thing is, a small percentage of people with AS/ASD appear not to have any issue with eye-contact/a small percentage of autistic people appear not to have problems with wider imaginative play/A small percentage of autistic people appear comfortable with most aspects of socialisation. Of these small percentages, most develop these skills later: they do not acquire them at the usual times or in the usual way at the predicted ages. A two year old child who didn't have any of these problems would not fit the criteria for diagnosis. TBH I'd find it disturbing if an adult evidencing no problem in any of these areas achieved diagnosis - but not entirely surprising because (as i've said many times) I think the diagnostic boundaries have been stretched so far in recent years that pretty much anyone could fit somebody's criteria of autism if they looked hard enough.

None of which is to say that the OP's daughter could or couldn't have autism - I'm certainly not qualified to say, and even if i was i've never met the child. On the other hand, i can say that a child who has yet to reach her third birthday who displays no problems with imagination/imaginative play, displays no obvious social delays, displays none of the 'key' features associated with ASD's and appears to be socially aware enough to be 'shy' (rather than oblivious) to the advances of others, seems unlikely to meet the criteria for diagnosis.

 

L&P

 

BD

Edited June 10, 2009 by baddad

[bid]

Reading through your opening post again, Mrs D, I personally wouldn't see your list of concerns as particularly indicative of autism if there is no other specific autistic behaviour...obviously I'm only going on what you have written, and I don't know your daughter and I'm not qualified to diagnose

 

Some of what you describe sounds to me just like normal toddler-type behaviour (e.g. the refusal to get in the car unless she gets to do it the way she wants).

 

Hope the professionals can set your mind at rest.

 

Bid

[keepingmesane]

hiya

 

im probably not really 'experienced' enough to answer you but wanted to say that my girl who is autistic spectrum, has very different behaviours to my lad who is autistic spectrum. i was told that girls present in a very different way. some of the things you mention sound very like mine... the car direction thing is a definate problem here!!

is it possible some of her behaviours are copied? that is what i am seeing in my younger children though my younger boy definately has traits but not strong enough to get a diagnosis... he is being put forward for a statement anyway as everyone has difficulty with him.

 

best thing i would advise is keeping a diary of anything you find 'odd', 3 is a very young age to say for definate and the professionals dismissed my daughter until she was over 4 and had loads of evidence from her nursery who were luckily very switched on!

 

good luck with it all

[westie]

Have you researched Pathological Demand Avoidance Syndrome (PDA)?

 

PDA children generally have better eye contact (unless they are using it to avoid demands) and also show better social skills that ASD children.... nothing that you have posted has brought up a "red flag" to make me think PDA as such, other than but you say she shows SOME signs of ASD but doesnt fit the profile, has good eye contact and appears more social.

 

 

It may be that she does have autistic traits without fitting the full criteria for a diagnosis. I hope your visit next week makes things clearer and if necessary she gets assessed - better to be sure than to miss something and for it to be picked up later. My friends son is now 10 and showed signs since early age but always dismissed by professionals until this age when you can't ignore and its affecting him at school as well now.

 

Below are some examples of things my son does, and things to think about that PDA children can display....

 

Is her "imaginative play" truly imaginative (i.e. she makes it up from her head rather than copying something she has seen on tv, or someone has shown her to do) for example if you spend hours with her encouraging her to feed the doll she may actually do this and she may say things to the doll, but it may always be the same words, or the same sequence of events, with no variation in her play - or it may be recognisable as a scene from a show......

 

If someone else is playing an imaginative game can she take part and follow what other person is doing and add in their own imaginative ideas??

 

My PDA son was (and still can be) overcontrolling in his play with peers, telling everyone what to do and say and having a mad hissy fit if the other person drove the car the "wrong way" etc (when younger he threw a car at his older cousins head because he drove the car the wrong way)

 

He will go up to strange children in parks or play areas and talk to them and play with them even appearing overfamiliar at times, but if someone comes to our home unexpectedly he will hide on the stairs and not come in. When a lady from CAMHS came the other week he refused to come down for ages, when he did come in the room he would not look at her or make eye contact and had to be "forced" to reply to her questions......

 

He can be charming and lovely one minute, but then totally flip and overreact the next.

 

He often develops obsessions with people, he has two close friends and he doesnt really like them playing with anyone else, equally some people he DOES NOT like and if he doesn't like someone, this can be a trigger for outbursts and poor behaviour.

 

If you ask my son to do things in an indirect way he will often comply, but say in a direct autocratic way and he will do whatever it takes to NOT do it!

 

PDA children often act like mini adults, quite controlling and bossy, love playing the teacher (and this can be channelled in a positive way).

 

Also, my son often works out in his head what is going to happen in a particular scenario and then will react as if whats in his head has really happened, when it may be total opposite. For example one day he asked to go to neighbours house and before I could answer he started having a tantrum shouting "you never let me do anything etc etc etc" - I had not said A WORD!!, But in his mind I had said no...... he often does this sort of thing at home and school.

 

Does she avoid doing things that you ask of her? Not necessarily by having a mad fit but by withdrawing, refusing to speak or look at someone, by talking at or over them to drown out demands, or by disracting with questions?

 

Are her routines and fixations only at home (if she goes anywhere else regularly does she also show similar behaviour?

And one last point is that PDA is more commonly diagnosed in girls (1:1 ratio girls to boys, rather than the 1:4 ratio for AS).

Edited June 10, 2009 by westie

[westie]

Oh and I hate taking my PDA son shoe shopping as well, they are always too tight and often I spend a fortune to get them home and find he wont wear them (he would prefer barefoot everywhere I think he takes shoes and socks off even in class)

I have got him some croc type shoes and because they are really roomy he seems to like them better than the others. He once put a pair on and then straight away said his feet were "burning becuase they are so hot" I said I couldnt see how that could be the case unless someone had placed hot coals in them" but looking back that is not really a nice reaction from me because maybe that is how they felt/ feel to him and if that is case then why would he want to wear them.....

[Sally44]

My son also has good eye contact, brought things to show me, and had some imaginative play. I found it quite hard to see the 'autism' in it. But the professionals showed and explained to me how what he was doing was autistic. For example many children/adults on the spectrum have imagination. But they may find it hard to be flexible in their play. So they may want to re-enact something they have already seen. If another child were to try to 'change' the game in any way they might become distressed or remove themselves or play alone. Some autistic children persistently try to play with other children and cannot tell the other child does not want to play with them because they don't understand expressions or voice tone, or they may come across as very bossy and controlling because they play in a rigid way. This is all inappropriate. But it needs to be observed over time as all children can show these tendencies at times. But if that was the only way that they could play and they could not sustain play with peers in any other way then that would be a pointer.

My son also hardly ever flaps and he can have good eye contact. He tends not to look at you when he is trying to think about what he wants to say. He used to spin as a toddler, but not to an extent that it was obviously excessive. He would need to be in a very excited state (usually watching a DVD) to jump up and down and flap a bit. Sometimes when he is thinking he walks round in circles.

I feel that many of my sons 'autistic behaviours' he uses because he has not learnt any other way to do things. Once he is taught he replaces the autistic behaviour with the learnt skill to a great extent. So I can have days when I think there is very little different about him, then I will have another day when he is so autistic and everything is pushing his buttons.

I have heard of many autistic children who get upset if the parent tries to go somewhere via a different route. This might be down to rigidity of thought or problems with change. Those on the spectrum can be very stubborn about how they think something should be done, and going to school, the supermarket, the petrol station a certain way or in a certain order or on a certain day/time can be part of that.

The Autism Outreach Teacher noted in her report that my son always puts his coat hood up (and usually wanted a hat on as well regardless of the weather). He used to fasten the velcro around his wrists very tightly. She thought he might be trying to either screen out alot of the playground noise or bustle, or that he was doing this to help him feel his body sensation. But again observation can help give professionals clues. Now he likes to dress up for the part when watching a DVD. So if he was watching Star Wars he might want to dress up as a droid. He can use clothes and materials to achieve that (so that is using imagination and flexibility), and will almost become another actor in the film as he runs around shooting the baddies. Many children without autism will do that.

Shoes and socks are common difficulties. My son has great problems with the seams on socks (and fabrics/clothes in general). He finds it difficult to put them on, then he finds it difficult to take them off. It is the change in sensation. On one occasion my son got very upset at school and threw his shoes at the TA after P.E. As soon as I made sure an extra pair of socks were put in his school bag for PE lesson that behaviour stopped. He said his socks were damp and didn't fit his feet after he had stretched them taking them off and that it hurt him to wear them afterwards. So I do think it is very useful to talk to your child about 'what they are experiencing'. Sometimes they cannot tell you, but sometimes they can and you have to believe what they tell you.

And every child on the spectrum is totally different.

One mum told me that her child refused to go into school because there were road works outside. That change totally freaked him out and they had to come to some arrangement as to how to get him into school whilst the works were being carried out. Her son gets very upset with the smallest amount of change. I went to a seminar where an autistic adult was talking about how 'changes' in the environment make her feel. She said she literally doesn't recognise it as being the same place or experience with even a small change. It somehow feels 'familiar' and yet is 'unrecognisable' at the same time. Some on the spectrum have 'face blindness' and cannot recognise people from their face at all and have to rely on other sensory information such as smell or movement to recognise even close family members. I have heard of high functioning aspergers pupil getting lost in a school he was familiar with just because the school walls had been painted a different colour during the holidays.

My son doesn't seem to mind change. But if you say something is going to happen then it has to happen. If there is a change to his schedule then he gets very anxious because he has no understanding of time and his schedule is the only way he can understand what is going to happen next. Without it he becomes very stressed and anxious to the point of vomiting on reflex.

I know some have said they wouldn't see the behaviours you have posted as being autistic. That maybe because they are not behaviours they or their children have. But those behaviours are the same as my son and he was diagnosed autistic spectrum disorder. I think only indepth assessments can really put your mind at rest. But her difficulties with speech should be a good starting point.

What specific speech difficulties does she have.

Does she repeat words or phrases? Does she pronounce letters and words correctly?

Does she respond to questions with the right answers?

Does she appear to respond to questions but maybe 6+ seconds later than someone might typically respond?

Does she take language literally?

Can she explain something she has seen or something she wants and you understand what she is talking about?

Can she tell you a story and identify the key features of that story?

Can she predict outcomes in stories if asked 'what do you think happened next'?

[cmuir]

Hi

 

Some of the things you said, I can relate to - particularly shop shopping and change in route. I too had to stop my son from hitting the shop assistant!

 

I noticed a comment about autistic tendencies. I'm not referring to anyone on the forum, but neighbours, etc have often commented 'oh, nothing wrong with R, we all have our funny little ways'. It's true we do, but there's a big difference between idiosyncrasies amd ASDs! I kept a diary over a year and looking back it makes very interesting reading. Lots of things in it, including how R would refuse to open wrapped gifts at christmas/birthday, how he'd react during family occasions eg birthdays, etc, how he didn't seem to feel the cold, how his pain threshold seemed unusually high, didn't sleep, etc. It was fully of things that were a bit unusual or struck me as odd. There's a big difference between a few 'funny little ways' and a lot of them! A lot of them can build a very interesting picture and could equate to having an ASD. Sounds like you're in the system, so that's good. If you genuinely believe something isn't quite right, then stick with it. I didn't have a positive experience relating to diagnosis - our GP and HV and even a Paed were emphatic that R didn't have AS. I stuck with it because by that time I felt as sure as I could be - he was diagnosed with AS. As time has went on, there's no doubt in anyone's mind now. Sadly, not everthing happens quickly, mainly because it take a number of professionals to diagnose a child and the signs often become more obvious with age (from 3+), but dependent upon presentation, it can be difficult to diagnose.

 

Hope you get answers soon.

 

Caroline.

Edited June 10, 2009 by cmuir

[ian stuart-hamilton]

I'm heard people mention "autistic tendencies". Does this mean they are not on the spectrum?

 

Many researchers in autism spectrum disorders (ASDs) believe that people with ASD are at the extreme end of the spectrum and that milder cases of ASD merge into cases of 'typically developing, but with unusual behaviours'. So on one side you may have someone with ASD with all the classic symptoms, but in relatively mild form, and on the other an ardent trainspotter who is socially awkward and a bit fussy about everything having its proper place. The dividing line between the two is not clear cut. Whilst the difference between a child with florid ASD and a child with typical developing behaviour sticks out like a sore thumb, diagnosis at the borderline is difficult, and one expert's diagnosis will probably differ from another's. So some clinicians and researchers will be more prepared to say that people with 'autistic tendencies' belong in the ASD group than others.

 

It's like looking at a rainbow. Everyone can clearly see the different colour bands of red, orange, yellow, green, etc. However, if you look carefully, you can see that each band of colour merges gradually into the next. For example, looking at the red and orange bands, where does the red definitely stop and the orange definitely begin? It's a matter of individual judgement, or otherwise you decide on boundary marker ('this side everything is red, that side it's orange') that is essentially arbitrary.

 

With regard to the specific case here, I'd be wary of making any sort of on the spot diagnosis. If you go by the textbook, a lot of the classic ASD symptoms are missing, but there's no 'law' stating that all the symptoms have to be present for a diagnosis to be made. On the other hand, it's possible that this little girl will 'grow out' of some of these traits. I know my own (Asperger) son had some traits (particularly obsessions about sequences and numbers) that he has shed as he has grown older, and I'm sure other folks here can give similar instances. And it is also perfectly possible that she will carry some ASD behaviours that in and of themselves can be controlled. Although our knowledge of how ASD is inherited is still not perfect, we do know that ASD-like behaviours are often found in close genetic relatives, even if they don't have a diagnosis of ASD themselves. In the case of my own family, I've been able to trace back what were clear symptoms of ASD and many more of ASD-like symptoms back through several generations.

Edited June 10, 2009 by ian stuart-hamilton

[katie123]

Hello Dee.

 

My son who has mild autism has done most of the things you mention at some point or another, He used to insist on going certin ways in the car or out walking, still has to have a "yellow" drinking cup, has to have his bears arranged in a certin way on his bed etc etc, he is also great at role play and has delayed speech, right now he wants to ware his "doctor who" jumper to school and asks every morning. I found the best way to deal with him is never giving in to him EVER!, its hard cause he does go crazy sometimes but I try just to ignore him, its made a big differance he knows he can kick off all he likes but still wont get what he wants.

[Sally44]

Hello Dee.

 

My son who has mild autism has done most of the things you mention at some point or another, He used to insist on going certin ways in the car or out walking, still has to have a "yellow" drinking cup, has to have his bears arranged in a certin way on his bed etc etc, he is also great at role play and has delayed speech, right now he wants to ware his "doctor who" jumper to school and asks every morning. I found the best way to deal with him is never giving in to him EVER!, its hard cause he does go crazy sometimes but I try just to ignore him, its made a big differance he knows he can kick off all he likes but still wont get what he wants.

 

If that is working for you then that is great.

I just wanted to give another angle on this behaviour as I heard at a seminar by Olga Bogdashina which you might find useful. Some children with autism can mix up different sensory information. So one child might always associate certain colours with numbers. To the extreme this is synesthesia. But many autisitic children connect totally unrelated sensory information as essential. So a drinking cup has to be in a certain colour etc. That is what they 'feel' is right. And furniture may need to be in a certain way or the room becomes unfamiliar. Going a certain route maybe because their sense of direction is linked to the place they know they are going to. By taking a different route you can make the end environment unrecognisable to the child. This linking of information helps the autistic child to make sense of their environment and what they are doing. By removing that connection they have made it brings them back into a place of chaos. There is a famous autistic called Tito who wrote about an experience he had as a child when he was frightened by something whilst sitting on the lawn. For years after that, walking on grass terrified him because he associated grass sensation with fear.

This way of connecting the wrong sensory information can also happen with language too. For example, a child was once bitten by a neighbours dog called Jack. The bite hurt the child and made him very scared. From that incident, every time he felt those same emotions he said 'Jack'. It took his parents a long time to work out what he was trying to tell them. But once they understood that, alot of his limited language suddenly made sense.

[katie123]

If that is working for you then that is great.

I just wanted to give another angle on this behaviour as I heard at a seminar by Olga Bogdashina which you might find useful. Some children with autism can mix up different sensory information. So one child might always associate certain colours with numbers. To the extreme this is synesthesia. But many autisitic children connect totally unrelated sensory information as essential. So a drinking cup has to be in a certain colour etc. That is what they 'feel' is right. And furniture may need to be in a certain way or the room becomes unfamiliar. Going a certain route maybe because their sense of direction is linked to the place they know they are going to. By taking a different route you can make the end environment unrecognisable to the child. This linking of information helps the autistic child to make sense of their environment and what they are doing. By removing that connection they have made it brings them back into a place of chaos. There is a famous autistic called Tito who wrote about an experience he had as a child when he was frightened by something whilst sitting on the lawn. For years after that, walking on grass terrified him because he associated grass sensation with fear.

This way of connecting the wrong sensory information can also happen with language too. For example, a child was once bitten by a neighbours dog called Jack. The bite hurt the child and made him very scared. From that incident, every time he felt those same emotions he said 'Jack'. It took his parents a long time to work out what he was trying to tell them. But once they understood that, alot of his limited language suddenly made sense.

 

I know where your coming from, I do sound abit hard on him, What you have written is very intresting, but my son does have mild autism, we dont just say "no, you cant have that" end off!, we would always explain why that couldnt happen etc, I really believe its helped him us being firm, he can now drink out different cups and never asks for his "yellow" one, he's getting on well at school (they are also very firm with him), but I understand this wouldnt work for a lot of kids.

 

[Goody]

Hi all,

 

I'm new to this forum, I posted on Meet & Greet recently. I have twins, soon to be 3 years old. I posted originally about my son who I know has autism (moderate has been suggested by the psychologist). He's not been formally diagnosed yet but the CARS form was done last week. There's loads of stuff going on with professionals and he will be diagnosed soon.

 

Anyway, this post is about his twin sister! She has some odd behaviour. I would call it odd but these are my only 2 children so they're all I've known. She is on the waiting list for the psychologist too. I've spoke to the psychologist in the past about her minor quirky ways and last week she suggested my daughter may be mildly affected by autism. I'm not too worried because it's so minor I think she will overcome the problems in time.

 

I would really appreciate any opinions you may have on her 'strange' behaviour. I personally do think there is some ASD there. This is what I think is strange:

 

If she has a cardigan/coat with a hood on, it ALWAYS has to be up, even if it's hot and sunny.

She absolutely refuses to move to a bed, says she doesn't like it. I bought her a bed a year ago and sold it 6 months later because there was no way she was going in a bed.

There's a small extra quilt hanging over the end of her cot which was used on cold nights. As it's warmer now, I took it off to put it away in the airing cupboard. She got very distressed and told me to put it back.

Shoe shopping is a complete nightmare. I took her to Clarks last week, you had to see it to believe it. She tried to hit the assistant, threw the new shoes, kicked/ screamed/shouted, tried to grab and throw the shoe gauge at the assistant (needless to say we didn't get any new shoes).

She refuses to wear anything in her hair. I put my hair in bunches (and her dollies), she went spare, pulling them out.

She refuses to wear skirts & dresses. If you can manage to get one on, she's hysterical/distressed.

Our car is parked in the drive, when we go anywhere, 99% of the time I turn right. When I turn left, she creates, shouts, screams, "wrong way" "other way".

She's just started having to walk up into the car (she used to be lifted in to the car seat). Recently she has to say "up the step" and get herself into the car. If I don't allow her to do this she creates, goes rigid on me and wants to get out and do it again.

I bought a different coloured beaker, same as she already has. She said she don't like it, pushes it away and won't drink out of it.

 

That's most of the things which I think are strange. Saying that, she has brilliant eye contact, is a little behind with her speech and is very good in social situations, maybe a little shy sometimes.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

Dee

 

Hi Dee,

 

In my case, I have minor problem for Autistc Spectrum, Asperger's Syndrome. But I had worked over 25 years and it was hard. Now, I know what kind of functional problems that i have.

First thing that I did was to know myself reading books and correcting many informations on the net. Now, i am the only person what kind of fuctional problems i have. Not doctors and professionals. It isn't curable and it continues with my life. The life goes on; How we cope with it.

 

Goody,

 

 

[Goody]

Hi all,

 

I'm new to this forum, I posted on Meet & Greet recently. I have twins, soon to be 3 years old. I posted originally about my son who I know has autism (moderate has been suggested by the psychologist). He's not been formally diagnosed yet but the CARS form was done last week. There's loads of stuff going on with professionals and he will be diagnosed soon.

 

Anyway, this post is about his twin sister! She has some odd behaviour. I would call it odd but these are my only 2 children so they're all I've known. She is on the waiting list for the psychologist too. I've spoke to the psychologist in the past about her minor quirky ways and last week she suggested my daughter may be mildly affected by autism. I'm not too worried because it's so minor I think she will overcome the problems in time.

 

I would really appreciate any opinions you may have on her 'strange' behaviour. I personally do think there is some ASD there. This is what I think is strange:

 

If she has a cardigan/coat with a hood on, it ALWAYS has to be up, even if it's hot and sunny.

She absolutely refuses to move to a bed, says she doesn't like it. I bought her a bed a year ago and sold it 6 months later because there was no way she was going in a bed.

There's a small extra quilt hanging over the end of her cot which was used on cold nights. As it's warmer now, I took it off to put it away in the airing cupboard. She got very distressed and told me to put it back.

Shoe shopping is a complete nightmare. I took her to Clarks last week, you had to see it to believe it. She tried to hit the assistant, threw the new shoes, kicked/ screamed/shouted, tried to grab and throw the shoe gauge at the assistant (needless to say we didn't get any new shoes).

She refuses to wear anything in her hair. I put my hair in bunches (and her dollies), she went spare, pulling them out.

She refuses to wear skirts & dresses. If you can manage to get one on, she's hysterical/distressed.

Our car is parked in the drive, when we go anywhere, 99% of the time I turn right. When I turn left, she creates, shouts, screams, "wrong way" "other way".

She's just started having to walk up into the car (she used to be lifted in to the car seat). Recently she has to say "up the step" and get herself into the car. If I don't allow her to do this she creates, goes rigid on me and wants to get out and do it again.

I bought a different coloured beaker, same as she already has. She said she don't like it, pushes it away and won't drink out of it.

 

That's most of the things which I think are strange. Saying that, she has brilliant eye contact, is a little behind with her speech and is very good in social situations, maybe a little shy sometimes.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

Dee

 

Hi Dee,

 

In my case, I have minor problem for Autistc Spectrum, Asperger's Syndrome. But I had worked over 25 years and it was hard. Now, I know what kind of functional problems that i have.

First thing that I did was to know myself reading books and correcting many informations on the net. Now, i am the only person what kind of fuctional problems i have. Not doctors and professionals. It isn't curable and it continues with my life. The life goes on; How we cope with it.

 

Goody,

 

 

[Sally44]

I know where your coming from, I do sound abit hard on him, What you have written is very intresting, but my son does have mild autism, we dont just say "no, you cant have that" end off!, we would always explain why that couldnt happen etc, I really believe its helped him us being firm, he can now drink out different cups and never asks for his "yellow" one, he's getting on well at school (they are also very firm with him), but I understand this wouldnt work for a lot of kids.

 

I think you're right in that.

It does all depend on how 'autistic' the child is and whether they can cope with being refused the need for certain 'sameness' or 'rigidity'. I too push the boundaries with my son. Sometimes it works and other times it doesn't. I'm not being judgemental at all. I just wanted to try to explain what the reason behind the need for this behaviour might be.

[baddad]

I think you're right in that.

It does all depend on how 'autistic' the child is and whether they can cope with being refused the need for certain 'sameness' or 'rigidity'.

 

I agree with that. One thing that bothers me, though, is that very often I see parents of HF children who can cope perfectly well with change etc when it suits them but absolutely refuse to accommodate it when it doesn't, and that inconsitency is completely overlooked by the parent. The fact that something may be a factor for a small percentage of autistic people (i.e. hypersensitivity to food textures) is held up as 'evidence' that it applies to other children who seem completely selective in the circumstances under which and with whom it applies. The regular answer to that is 'well all children are different', which is perfectly true, but as all parents are too it's really little more than gainsaying. I've said it a few times now, but I find it increasingly worrying that autism is seen as a 'can't do' disability whereas with most other disabilities the fundamental aim is to maximise potential.

 

L&P

 

BD

 

[Mumble]

I agree with that. One thing that bothers me, though, is that very often I see parents of HF children who can cope perfectly well with change etc when it suits them but absolutely refuse to accommodate it when it doesn't, and that inconsistency is completely overlooked by the parent. The fact that something may be a factor for a small percentage of autistic people (i.e. hypersensitivity to food textures) is held up as 'evidence' that it applies to other children who seem completely selective in the circumstances under which and with whom it applies. The regular answer to that is 'well all children are different', which is perfectly true, but as all parents are too it's really little more than gainsaying. I've said it a few times now, but I find it increasingly worrying that autism is seen as a 'can't do' disability whereas with most other disabilities the fundamental aim is to maximise potential.

Can I add to that as a HF person - I completely understand what you are saying and agree with it on the whole, however, there are some things that I can do perfectly well in one set of circumstances/context/environment that I struggle greatly with in a different set of circumstances. What I can do is very strongly tied in with what else is going on around me and everything else about me as an individual. It really upsets me when I'm struggling with something and being pushed and pushed relentlessly to the point of breakdown by someone who says "well I know you did it last month when..." without taking the different contexts/pressures into account. Just to clarify, I'm not saying you're doing this and I understand and agree with your point generally, just that it's so frustrating and makes you feel pretty damn awful when you know in yourself that you've done something before, that you want to do it, that you have all the skills to do it, but something still holds you back.

 

To give what I hope is a good example: I've been on holiday independently - I've taken sleeper trains, changed trains, ferries, coped with Youth Hostels so I can 'do' trains and even delays and staying away from home. Yet, when I have to go to a conference I really struggle with the transport (and have got myself lost at 4am in the morning having taken several wrong trains ) and couldn't cope with the staying away bit to the extent that I actually didn't go to one. The whole conference thing and thinking through everything to come and having to socially interact and possibly meeting others on the train who knew me but I couldn't recognise and the problems that would be caused if there was a delay reduced my tolerance levels which in a self-perpetuating cycle impacted on my coping strategies - not coping = more stress, more stress = harder to cope etc etc.

 

So yes, the things I had to do were the same, but the surrounds were different - this isn't just (or even is) about a different environment making it different/unrecognisable - it's about the impacts of the everything else. So what I can do/cope with does change and that's very difficult to explain but it's very unhelpful to be told 'you've done it before'.

 

 

[Goody]

Hi Dee,

 

In my case, I have minor problem for Autistc Spectrum, Asperger's Syndrome. But I had worked over 25 years and it was hard. Now, I know what kind of functional problems that i have.

First thing that I did was to know myself reading books and correcting many informations on the net. Now, i am the only person what kind of fuctional problems i have. Not doctors and professionals. It isn't curable and it continues with my life. The life goes on; How we cope with it.

 

Goody,

 

 

What is the key point difference between Autism and Asperger's Syndrome. There is a speech delay for Autism but there isn't speech delay in Asperger's Syndrome. Other than is in the myth, I think. So, we call AS as PDD nowadays. Is it correct?

 

 

Goody,

(Yoshi)