Paper Work for school needs to be in by the end of term

[Sooze2]

SENCO can graciously meet me on Friday to go over DS's timetable!!! School breaks for the holidays next Tuesday!

The LEA told me school needed to submit his IEP and timetable for next year by the 13th July which was yesterday.

SENCO was off sick last week, came back on Friday. She didn't bother to come and speek to me yesterday so I popped in this morning, after starting at me for a second when I said we need to have a meeting to go over IEP and timetable she said she has spoken to the LEA and she only needs to send in a timetable, she can meet me Friday morning. When I said they told me it had to be in by the end of term she said she can Fax it to the LEA after our meeting.

 

So, who is messing me around here, the LEA for saying they need a detailed IEP and Timetable on the 13th or the SENCO who can't even be bothered to approach me at all ever over anything and who plucks an appointment out of the air when she sees the look on my face when I ask if when she will be meeting with me?

 

Please be honest, am I annoyed over nothing here or are they leaving it a tad late to sort out what will be happening with my son and the money they have been given for him. Ive got his class info for September and the set up is staying the same as this year by the looks of it, 1 TA for his ASD statemented freind and 1 part time TA for everyone else. There is a meeting on Monday for parents to meet year 5 teachers which is when I will be able to find out how the classes will work, isn't that too late for me to find out who is covering my son and for what next year?

 

Aslo the LEA are doing an ammended proposed statement after our meeting a week and a half ago and I haven't seen it yet, should I have it before this meeting, or do they just sent it straight to the school, I'll phone them later I think.

 

God, I think I'm going mad.

 

Thanks for reading and putting up with my rantings, I think I'm probably out of order as most people probably just go along with what the school say which is why they don't know how to deal with me. Perhaps I'm just a pushy annoying parent.

Edited July 14, 2009 by Sooze2

[Sally44]

I don't know about the IEP or Timetable needing to be submitted to the LEA. Never come across that with our LEA.

However you appear to be at the Proposed Statement stage? Well all your questions you have asked should be answered in his Statement. A statement should identify every need/difficulty in section 2 and recommendations as to how those needs will be met in school should be itemised in section 3.

 

So if your child needs it (it should be itemised in School/SALT/EP/OT reports that you will have received copies of that the LEA requested they make towards a statement), then section 2 might read something like this:

 

XXX finds it hard to concentrate or participate in whole class environments. He is easily distracted and can get upset and frustrated when he does not know what he should be doing. He finds change difficult to cope with and needs his work to be presented to him in a highly structured way. His language processing and level of verbal understanding means that he cannot access whole class learning without support.

 

Then to meet that need in section 3 it might say:

 

XXX is to be supported throughout the school day by a nominated key worker that school will identify. All learning to be carried out in small groups of XX pupils. All class work should be highly structured with an indivisual timetable and with work being broken down into smaller tasks. XXX should have access to a work station if needed. School will use the TEACHH approach. XXX needs 1:1 support if he is involved in whole class learning. His dedicated TA to be the main person working with him who will then generalise learnt skills out into other environments and to other staff. School will be aiming to present work in such a highly structured and ASD friendly way that XXX becomes more independent in his work.

 

(Although you say that your child needs constant 1:1 support why is that? If he needs that because he doesn't understand the work, then when the work is presented in a way he understands, once the TA has gone through it with him and he understands what he should be doing, he should then be able to go and complete it independently). This is also a good argument for a school with experience in ASDs. It isn't doing your child any favours for him to be totally reliant on someone before he does anything. He needs to be taught the skills to become more independent.

 

If your son needs any specific professional input it should quantify and specify that. Eg. the SALT will spend XX hours per term on direct one to one therapy. The nominated TA will observe these sessions and will carry this programme out in school on a daily basis. The SALT will be working on the following areas of difficulty: (list difficulties identified). The SALT will spend a further XX hours per term on training the TA, laising with school and home, observing and taking notes, advice to the Social Skills club, attend IEP/MEP meetings, write an up to date report prior to annual review.

 

As you can probably see, if the statement is this tight, everything you are questioning should be answered in the statement.

Hope that helps.

[Sooze2]

(Although you say that your child needs constant 1:1 support why is that? If he needs that because he doesn't understand the work, then when the work is presented in a way he understands, once the TA has gone through it with him and he understands what he should be doing, he should then be able to go and complete it independently). This is also a good argument for a school with experience in ASDs. It isn't doing your child any favours for him to be totally reliant on someone before he does anything. He needs to be taught the skills to become more independent.

 

As you can probably see, if the statement is this tight, everything you are questioning should be answered in the statement.

Hope that helps.

 

 

Thanks Sally, the statement was great but a bit vague as to where help was given so she is ammending it. The Ed Phyc said in her report that he needs 1 to 1 support in order to produce any work so he needs help getting started which includes making sure he has pencils etc and redirection once he is working to make sure he is working at all (he also has ADHD which he is medicated for but its not a cure all) he also sometimes needs someone to write for him so he can get instructions down. Your right, he needs to be taught the skills to become independant but the point is - who is going to teach him those skills - this is what I need to speek to the SENCO about because the school are supposed to be arranging for him to be taught skills to become independant but haven't shown me how this will happen.

 

The LEA are sending someone in to asses his writing and how badly it hinders his learning because he can't write much and the anxiety surrounding writting makes him preduce even less! They are going to see if he needs a lap top for some lessons.

 

He does need a lot of support but is also very very bright so this leads to extreme frustration when he hasn't got any help and this is why I feel it is unacceptable for the SENCO to not meet with me at all for the whole of year 4 except to say "oh, he's fine" and then fit me in for a quick chat about his timetable when some of his teachers especially the one who teaches cursive handwritting have no idea about ASD kids! Also the Statement says he needs input from SALT as part of his time table, SALT gave him speech therapy up till year 1 then discharged him, his IEP still states that he has input from SALT 3 years on even though he doesn't - they have to re-refer him for SALT who, I been told have a 2 year waiting list which would mean he wouldn't see them till Secondary School (!) but the LEA assumed they have been seeing him all along because the SENCO was writing it on his IEP!

 

He needs someone to make sure he has all his things with him when he needs them, including for going home otherwise he just leaves everything everywhere and needs to be sent back in a couple of times after school to get all the things he has forgotten. In year 5 they expect the children to be more independant which he isn't to be honest so I needed this on the statement. He needs help in PE to explain rules and keep him concentrating - the list goes on and if this isn;t in place for year 5 he is frankly stuffed and we need the whole thing working well during the next 2 years in order to build his confidence up in preparation for Secondary School or again he will be totally stuffed. What has got to me is the provision for year 5 is the same as year 4, the TA's are lovely but it isn;t fair on them or the teacher if at times there is only one adult in the class to manage and support children with statements and the rest of the class of 37 children.

 

My Husband was very similar to DS as a child and once he hit Secondary age the system had already failed him and there is no way that my son is going through the same as my Hubby to be honest its not just about what is written on the stateement its about whether the school are going to put it into practice. In year 3 the Statementented child was left with out a TA and was lost in a class with 37 children and only one Supply teacher because the regular teacher and his TA were off sick for months! This class had a lot of high maintenence children in it and the parents ended up having to go to the head and kick off to get anything done and even then they had to wait for year 4 for extra support (which school had been paid for) to be put into place. Bearing in mind that the Statemeneted childs TA was used as the whole class TA for 4 years and this is a very large class. This is why I need everything sorted and discussed.

 

xx

Edited July 14, 2009 by Sooze2

[Sally44]

If you are at the Proposed Statement stage, all outside professionals should have been asked by the LEA to produce up to date reports. Did that include the SALT?

I don't know if this is throughout the UK, but secondary schools do not provide SALT input unless your child has a speech disorder. This is something I fought to be included in my own child's statement and we did involve a private SALT who assessed my son and one of the things she did was diagnose Semantic Pragmatic Speech Disorder. If your child has an ASD, part of those difficulties are due to speech/language/communication/social use of language/language based play skills etc. And those difficulties will be for life - a disorder is for life. My argument was that it is the same thing. I won on that argument. Otherwise alot of children with an ASD have a 'speech delay' written in their records by a SALT. With a 'delay' there is supposed to be every expectation that the child will catch up. Also SALT can discharge a child if they feel they have improved. They cannot discharge a child from SALT if they have a disorder.

You are right to be asking 'who' will be putting these programmes into place. I presume he is at a mainstream school? If he was in a school that had specific experience and expertise in ASDs, then they would be expected to have knowledge on how to do that. But you would still require them to be specific in how it would be incorporated into their daily timetable and progress recorded through IEPs. If they don't have any experience of expertise then you are looking for at least termly reviews by the professional responsible for that area ie. Educational Psychologist, Autism Outreach Teacher, Speech and Language Therapist, Occupational Therapist.

Do you have an idea where his main area of difficulty is?

In my son's case it turned out to be mainly language based. So he has weekly therapy from a therapist that goes into school. His nominated TA observes this session and carries it out on a daily basis in school. If it is a new skill the therapist will show the TA how to generalise that skill into other areas ie. from the therapy session into the classroom or playground and then for other members of staff to prompt him etc.

From your post it sounds like he has difficulties with executive functions ie. organising, planning, sequencing, memory. You can ask for that to be included in his statement and for him to be supported in this area. And they can also work on specific areas of difficulty eg. with my son they are working on extending his short term memory. And they also use a networking system to teach him new words or topics so that he categorizes them correctly in his brain. Otherwise, although my son is also assessed as being above average intelligence, alot of the information he has stored is not stored in a way that he can easily access the information. Rather like a library after a tornado has been through it.

 

There are handwriting programmes that they can use and that too should be itemised ie. the Occupational Therapist will use a writing programme such as XXX and this programme will be carried out in school by his nominated TA and will be incorporated into his daily timetable and targets will be set in his IEPs. Progress will be monitored and reviewed on a termly basis by the Occupational Therapist.

 

Everything that is in the statement is legally binding. If anything is not being done you can query that with the LEA immediately and they would have to find another member of staff to cover in any long term absence of staff.

 

Are you confident with the school that they can carry out such a detailed programme. Do they have any experience of ASDs? If not have you looked at alternatives within your LEA. There might be another mainstream school that has alot more experience of ASD children. Or, as in my case, there may be a mixed mainstream/SEN school that has experience and expertise in ASDs. If so you might be able to move your child to that school just as a regular change of school (but you would be responsible for transport). Or you could request a SEN placement as part of the statement. If the LEA refuse and you go to tribunal the panel at tribunal can force the LEA to fund a further SEN place. In my own case the LEA 'found' an extra place just before we went to tribunal. However they were still refusing other things ie. SALT input. So we did go to tribunal. But we were literally 5 minutes into the meeting when the LEA suddenly said they would agree to everything we were asking for. So be prepared for the LEA to push you to the limit and go to tribunal over supports you are asking for especially when that involves the LEA having to fund additional supports, therapies, programmes, professional input.

But if you have the evidence in writing from reports that that is what your child needs, then the panel will rule in your favour.

[Sooze2]

Are you confident with the school that they can carry out such a detailed programme. Do they have any experience of ASDs? If not have you looked at alternatives within your LEA. There might be another mainstream school that has alot more experience of ASD children. Or, as in my case, there may be a mixed mainstream/SEN school that has experience and expertise in ASDs. If so you might be able to move your child to that school just as a regular change of school (but you would be responsible for transport). Or you could request a SEN placement as part of the statement. If the LEA refuse and you go to tribunal the panel at tribunal can force the LEA to fund a further SEN place. In my own case the LEA 'found' an extra place just before we went to tribunal. However they were still refusing other things ie. SALT input. So we did go to tribunal. But we were literally 5 minutes into the meeting when the LEA suddenly said they would agree to everything we were asking for. So be prepared for the LEA to push you to the limit and go to tribunal over supports you are asking for especially when that involves the LEA having to fund additional supports, therapies, programmes, professional input.

But if you have the evidence in writing from reports that that is what your child needs, then the panel will rule in your favour.

 

I am confident about the TA's because they are really nice and very caring (like class mummies) but its the total lack of communication and avoidance of any decent discussion from the SENCO that bothers me in a big way. He is in a mainstream school, I can't move him because his siblings also attend the school and I wouldn't be able to get them all to different schools at the same time plus moving him would mean leaving his freinds which would make him very very unhappy, take our relationship back to where it was last year which was horrendous and so it would be counterproductive. Its a shame because there is a mainstream school in our town (but a fair distance away) that is geared up for children with ASD and they are lovely, Ive heard about it through other parents and our LEA lady also mentioned it. I don't think he'd get in there anyway because places are scarce.

 

As for SALT, the proposed statement say that he needs continued involvement from SALT and the only thing written in part 5 says DS needs Speech and Language Therapy and intervention from CAHMS I'll be interested to hear the SENCO's reply when I ask if she has refered him to SALT yet!

 

The LEA said they had terrible problems getting all the paperwork sent to them and it delayed everything. The OT at CHAMS wrote a report for me the day before I saw the LEA (even posted it through my door on the morning so I could take it with me) because she haddn't even been asked for one, she was gutted because she has done a lot of work with him and has put a lot of things into place at school for me when I have had no luck getting them to talk to me.

 

What I wanted to ask as well is that the LEA said they are going to make all the amendments I asked for, will they send me a copy of the ammended proposed statement? She told me I could have it changed as many times as I needed and if the school needed more money so he got the help he needed then she would give it to them. This is why I am getting twitchy, I think I am going to ask them to request more money. I also think she told me that for a good reason because a few things that I said (without sounding like I was complaining) made her realise that even the statemented child may not be being supported as he should have been up till year 4.

 

I need the SENCO to show me when he is getting support - which lessons etc so I can decide whether he has help where he needs it - is this what this timetable will show me? If he doens't have support in all the area's that I requested and submitted to the LEA then I am going to ask them to ensure he has TA support at those times. He is currently funded for 18.3 hours which is roughly 3.5 days which is what he gets now really (shared) and this doesn't cover PE, swimming lessons, handwritting (where he needs it most) amoungst other things. I think this is because they don't see these subjects as accedemic so don't give support in those, I also know that the other ASD boy also doesn't get support in those lessons so there is only one teacher for 37. Also like you say once all the therapies they want done are in place I will need to make sure they are doing them but also not during important lessons. They have writen that he needs an individualised literacy programme that is carefully matched to his skills etc we will see how it works out eh!

 

DS's needs are different to his freinds because he is out there, everything he feels/thinks/likes/hates is said he can't lie or hide his emotions, he's trying to dampen down a bit but it still comes out a lot because he is so enthusiastic about everything and will show no embarassment about telling all about how rats reproduce or talking frankly about the size of my breasts in front of the whole class - his freind withdraws DS explodes/laughs he is a larger than life person so his needs are the opposite to the other boys so surely they can't be lumped together which is what has happened in the past.

 

Anyway, I will phone the LEA tomorrow if I haven't had any post from them to see when I will see the amended paperwork what needs to be on this timetable. Parent Parnership (who also works within the school) has warned against me talking to the head master about funding, DS's support and class TA's so I will need to do that at some point if the senco keeps talking jibberish to me and to let him know that he will get funding for extra hours for DS so he can have a TA in there all the time for DS and not just as a free whole class TA. He doesn't pay my wages and so can't intimidate me - blimey my solicior boss way back when I worked couldn't intimidate me so there is no way he will!!!

 

Blimey , what a lot Ive typed, idle ramblings mostly so sorry about that.

 

PS, thanks for the support - Ive got a few other BIG things going on in my life at the mo and really needed to off load this morning as I could do without this really. I think the SENCO saw the look on my face when I spoke to her this morning and was so shoked because I am always polite, smile and be NICE but today I was far from it. Hey ho, feel better now - thanks a lot

[Sally44]

I did have to move my own son from our local mainstream school. That meant separating him from his friends and sibling. However I had come to the point where I realised that they would be separated at some point because I don't think he would attend the same secondary school as them as he was not making progress.

He has settled well into his new school and has made new friends and is now making academic progress. So don't rule it out.

If you did ask for that other mainstream school then you can ask for that placement in section 4 of the statement. Have you spoken with this other school, or visited it. They should be able to tell you if there are any 'SEN' places left, or whether there are just mainstream places and whether your child could transfer on just a mainstream place. The difference is, if a child goes to a different school under the Statement then the LEA is responsible for transport. My son goes to/from school by taxi provided by the LEA. If you move him as a mainstream pupil then you would have to transport him.

 

If I had a child with an ASD/ADHD I would expect the Statement to provide cover throughout the day for the whole week. Whatever difficulties your child has they are going to be persistent. He isn't going to have difficulties in one lesson and then no difficulties during the next lesson. A Statement is about EVERY need, not just academic ones. So if he needs 1:1 support in PE then it should say that.

 

You should be the one telling the school to ask for extra money. You just concentrate on getting the statement as specific as it needs to be. Then the school and LEA can sort it out between themselves.

 

If you think it would be helpful, send me a PM with your email address and I can send you a copy of my son's statement to give you an idea of what is included and how it is worded.

 

You could also PM one of the moderators and ask for the link about checking through Proposed Statements.

[Sally44]

Sorry, misprint. I meant to say that you shouldn't be the one to be negotiating money with the school or LEA.

[Sooze2]

Thanks my lovely, will let you know. Off the phone the LEA now.

[Sooze2]

Just a quick update. I received the amended draft statement just now (in the nick of time) and the LEA have put everything in that I asked for and emphasised that HIS TA will be with him on a 1 to 1 basis at all the times I asked for! There were other things added about needing his TA there for PE etc, and the need for his TA to help with organisation at the end of the day and through all transitions to make sure he has eveything he needs and that he gets to where he's supposed to be on time etc, they have to speek to me at the end of the day and we'll have a meeting termly to discuss the wee man. Hoorah. Off to have my meeting with the SENCO tomorrow morning, bet she can't wait to see me.

 

I'm so glad that they put in the words His TA and 1 to 1 which is what I emphasised because I know that it probably wasn't going to be done unless it was in black and white and I think the LEA realised that. Ive just phoned them to thank them. Success at last.

Edited July 16, 2009 by Sooze2