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jlogan1

is it a control thing?

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Actually, my post above has made me think further about how you might be speaking to your DD.

 

It took us a long time to understand that while my son had very adult-sounding expressive language, i.e. how he spoke; his receptive language was actually at a much younger level, i.e. his understanding of what was being said to him.

 

We were advised to use much simpler language with him, as though talking to a much younger child. Use her name first to get her attention, then use simple, short sentences and try and avoid too much emotional content.

 

As an example, thinking about the book review situation above. State clearly that she needs to do this work: 'You have to write a book review for school' Then do the 'When...then' thing as in my last post with the TV/comp as the positive reinforcer. Really keep the whole thing that simple and clear.

 

Don't get drawn into an argument or use emotional language, e.g. 'You've really got to do this work, you can't just do nothing!', etc, etc. Repeat the two phrases maybe 3 times and then withdraw if she gets cross. If you have disabled the computer/TV hopefully she will return to this after a bit of crossness and comply. If not, just calmly repeat the same thing again.

 

This won't be easy, and it will feel strange talking to her like this, but I do think it's worth perservering with this. It's worth remembering that ASD is a communication disorder, so the simpler and clearer you try to make any communication the better.

 

Bid :)

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Kathryn/bid - sorry, but what is one heck of an assumption? I can't see anything in any of the posts made by the OP to suggest that her daughter is showing any sort of willingness to compromise whatsoever(?). And even if your own children were unable to compromise during their school refusal years it doesn't mean that this is the case here. I'm really sorry if that touches any raw nerves for either of you, but I'm going purely on what is posted here rather than trying to project my own experiences with my own child onto the situation - which is, quite perversely, exactly what bid has highlighted shouldn't be done.

I'm also not being judgmental - I'm just being honest and responding to what is written here rather than what I think might be happening because something similar has happened with my child. I do actually have a huge amount of experience of school refusal - but I have no idea whether any of it would apply to this situation because all I know about this situation is what's written by the OP.

 

Bid - you've used the term twice in this thread, but where has anyone suggested that these are just teenage 'tantrums' (in the context that you suggest as a judgement of the OP's daughter's behaviour)? Sorry - but that's a 'spin' too far for me to let it pass without comment. And, yes, I do know you haven't made any direct accusations, but i don't think there can be much doubt about the implication...

 

Kathryn - I totally agree with what you've said about the boundaries and expectations being managable - I can't imagine where you've got the idea that I'm suggesting unreasonable/impractical/impossible targets(?) I'm just suggesting exactly what the psychologist has suggested; 'actions and consequences'.

 

 

Jlogan - sorry to have slightly hi-jacked your thread to launch a 'defence' of my own posts, but i hope you'll appreciate that i'd prefer people responded to what i say rather than what they read 'between the lines'.

Re your last post: I think it should be a mix of the two: Rewards when they are earned/sanctions when they are necessary. And, yes, the sanction should be something that matters to her, because if it's something that doesn't really matter then it's not a sanction.

 

L&P

 

BD :D

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BD,

 

The tone and phrases you used in your last but one post in particular to jlogan were pejorative and judgemental IMO.

 

You repeatedly say that everyone else is making assumptions, but as far as I can see, you make far more sweeping assumptions than anyone else, largely about the parental mindset/ability of people you have never met.

 

Now I too am just going to be honest: this is only the OP's second thread I think? If I had received a post like the last but one you have made in this thread when I first joined this forum I would have left...and as a result my son would never have finally got the appropriate educational provision to which he had a right.

 

When people join this forum, especially if they are still waiting for a dx or the dx is very fresh or they have reached crisis point, they can be very vulnerable and fragile.

 

I think I have posted this elsewhere on the forum: it's not so much what people say, it's the way they say it.

 

Now, I'm not going to bow out of this thread, but I am only going to post in response to the OP from now on.

 

Bid :)

Edited by bid

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hi yes that is whats in place at moment,its a case of when youve done the work you can have it back,simple as that and the work should only take about half hour but she's digging in and says she's not doing it,so i'm keeping comp,although we are now in the situation of she only has 1 friend and she wont use the phone and says she needs to email her but i'm punishing her by not letting her have contact with her only friend.just so frustrating ,i'm sure shes capable of work ,but did read on one posting that perhaps shes struggling and cant do it because it needs her opinions and perhaps she cant do it,but i'm sure shes done things like this before,so should i ask her,although in mood shes in getting nowhere,she has said wont eat anything i've cooked and should go and drop dead,arent children wonderful!!!

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hi yes that is whats in place at moment,its a case of when youve done the work you can have it back,simple as that and the work should only take about half hour but she's digging in and says she's not doing it,so i'm keeping comp,although we are now in the situation of she only has 1 friend and she wont use the phone and says she needs to email her but i'm punishing her by not letting her have contact with her only friend.just so frustrating ,i'm sure shes capable of work ,but did read on one posting that perhaps shes struggling and cant do it because it needs her opinions and perhaps she cant do it,but i'm sure shes done things like this before,so should i ask her,although in mood shes in getting nowhere,she has said wont eat anything i've cooked and should go and drop dead,arent children wonderful!!!

 

Could you ask her if there is anything you can do to help?

 

Also, I think at this stage, just accept whatever she can produce.

 

Sorry, got to rush off to work now but will think some more!

 

Bid :)

 

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hi yes that is whats in place at moment,its a case of when youve done the work you can have it back,simple as that and the work should only take about half hour but she's digging in and says she's not doing it,so i'm keeping comp,although we are now in the situation of she only has 1 friend and she wont use the phone and says she needs to email her but i'm punishing her by not letting her have contact with her only friend.just so frustrating ,i'm sure shes capable of work ,but did read on one posting that perhaps shes struggling and cant do it because it needs her opinions and perhaps she cant do it,but i'm sure shes done things like this before,so should i ask her,although in mood shes in getting nowhere,she has said wont eat anything i've cooked and should go and drop dead,arent children wonderful!!!

 

It can be very difficult to 'stick' with a sanction when an emotional plea is attached - i.e. that you are stopping her having contact with her only friend. It might help if you can look at that from a different POV, and think of it in terms of a child being 'grounded' for the evening, when they would also be unable to contact their friends. The biggest difference in this case is that the 'grounding' is completely open ended and on her terms: if she does her work the 'grounding' is lifted, which is not the same thing as when a child is grounded as a punishment and the penalty is 'fixed'.

For now I would stop trying to look for explanations for why she can't do the work (which is not to say that it couldn't be for the reason you've thouight of, just that it's another 'grey' that makes things more complicated). Work on the assumption that she can, and if when she tries to do it you can see she's struggling in spite of trying consider the 'greys' then.

One other thing I would say is that this sanction has pretty much come out of the blue so she is possibly going to resist it more forcefully than something that was predetermined. That's not a reason for backing down, but if you do lose this round it's worth bearing in mind for next time.

Oh - one other thing that will (hopefully) make you feel less like the WWof the W is that you are only asking her to give you her best effort for half an hour. You're not 'judging' the results of that effort, just her willingness to try.

 

L&P

 

BD :D

Edited by baddad

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Kathryn/bid - sorry, but what is one heck of an assumption? I can't see anything in any of the posts made by the OP to suggest that her daughter is showing any sort of willingness to compromise whatsoever(?). And even if your own children were unable to compromise during their school refusal years it doesn't mean that this is the case here. I'm really sorry if that touches any raw nerves for either of you, but I'm going purely on what is posted here rather than trying to project my own experiences with my own child onto the situation I'm also not being judgmental - I'm just being honest and responding to what is written here rather than what I think might be happening because something similar has happened with my child. I do actually have a huge amount of experience of school refusal - but I have no idea whether any of it would apply to this situation because all I know about this situation is what's written by the OP.

 

Which is exactly what I've been doing: looking at what jlogan has actually said. I feel you are the one reading between the lines and making assumptions about the motivation of the child and the parent's handling of the situation. And you demand that people consider wider possibilities but won't acknowledge the possibility that your own analysis might just be wide of the mark. I'm not suggesting her situation is exactly the same as mine - I've said as much in previous posts. All I'm doing is posting about my own experience - something may ring bells of recognition, or it may not. At the very least it will show her that she's not alone in having struggled.

 

Anyway, back to your last post Jlogan - sorry.

 

This is purely my opinion, but if the strategy of withholding privileges isn't working in the case of school work, drop it. Let her contact her friend: I can see no benefit in further isolating her from the outside world. Again, just my opinion. At the risk of being accused of projecting my experience, I can say that such strategies, which I tried, made no difference whatsoever to my daughter. Your response will depend on the reason for your own daughter's behaviour. Until you've unearthed this, I don't see the point in forcing her to do things for the sake of it. All it's probably doing is turning her off the idea of formal education altogether.

 

There may be deeper issues which are preventing your daughter from doing the work - from bad memories of school, to a physical inability to get things down on paper. If that's the case, it's unlikely that any amount of force will help. I'm not in a position to judge the school's approach, but just from what you've posted there seems to be no long term plan in place to address the reason for her being out of school and to return your daughter to appropriate full time education, just an ad hoc arrangement which puts all the pressure on you and isn't working. Even if you win the Battle of the Book Review, you will be up against another one when she gets the next assignment, I fear.

 

In my opinion, take the pressure off for the moment save your energy to pursue the clinical and educational professionals because whatever the reason for your daughter's behaviour she clearly needs help here, and so do you.

 

As you can see there are loads of different opinions on this thread how to handle the situation. Hope we haven't confused you further. Rest assured that everyone posting in this thread is doing so with the intention of helping and supporting you. >:D<<'>

 

K x

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For anyone who is interested :lol:

 

My son wasn't a school refuser.

 

I took him out of school on the advice of his GP and consultant psychiatrist as they formally diagnosed him as unfit for school on medical grounds due to a severe breakdown.

 

Hope that clarifies our background :)

 

Bid :)

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Hi, what support do your recieve within the home, are you getting a break from your daughter and is your daughter getting a break from you, are there any social, recreational activities been offered, from sessional worker to a spersific provision, if she is only spending 45m x2 that must mean you have her for the rest of the time, do you feel your at crisis point at all, having to relentlessly support, motivate, protect, care for her, it must be absaloutly overwelming at times which will comprimise the way you manage your D.

 

From the discriptions you have given my opinion is she is shutting down, and going into a fantasy land, ie her books, if she is self harming and intent on a road of self distruct I think its time to get more assessment and urgently, she is very likely to go as far as she needs to show deep down she is very vunrable, the deep down she feels soo scared, when you back an animal into a corner, they do two things, either submit and curl up or attack and run, I think personally this situation is very likely to spiral out of control without specialist support, and quick.

 

JsMumxxx

 

Edited by JsMum

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For anyone who is interested :lol:

 

My son wasn't a school refuser.

 

I took him out of school on the advice of his GP and consultant psychiatrist as they formally diagnosed him as unfit for school on medical grounds due to a severe breakdown.

 

Hope that clarifies our background :)

 

Bid :)

 

 

J was officaillay signed off with Anxiety but then it left us at home for three weeks with no support at all, which is why we did part time flexi schooling, obvously that did not help either, but what im trying to say, is yes the school absence will be authorised but it will leave mum with nothing at all and have to deal with a very depressed child who is self harming, her needs to be looked at both educationally, but more essentially mentally and emotionally.

 

 

JsMum

 

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School refusal is also a need that has to be met, and supported, the book Ive recently read suggests if school refusal isnt managed carefully then emotional, mental and psychological can be comprimised in some cases long term damage, meaning the experiences can effect future employment, social events ect..... school refusal should still be addressed and managed.

 

JsMum

 

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For anyone who is interested :lol:

 

My son wasn't a school refuser.

 

I took him out of school on the advice of his GP and consultant psychiatrist as they formally diagnosed him as unfit for school on medical grounds due to a severe breakdown.

 

Hope that clarifies our background :)

 

Bid :)

 

And just to say - my daughter wasn't a school refuser either - taken out of school eventually for similar reasons. It might have been easier if she had been.

 

K x

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And just to say - my daughter wasn't a school refuser either - taken out of school eventually for similar reasons. It might have been easier if she had been.

 

K x

 

My son was not a school refuser either although school was making him physically and emotionally ill. My son was also signed off sick pre-diagnosis and following his breakdowns we never got him back.

 

When my son was as his worst emotionally which was pre and just after diagnosis his obsessions took over his life. His obsessions were games and certain films that he re-played over and over again. We tried sanctions we even removed leads from TVs and the X Box it made no difference to the way he was at all. The only thing that he could talk about was his obsessions and if he could not play the games then he talked about them. To say that we were at our wits end would be an understatement.

 

Only now can my son, he is 22 years old now, tell me why he became so obsessed and hyper focused on games and certain films to the exclusion of everything else. He said that the games that he played and the films that he was watching were predictable. They had a beginning middle and an end right down to the credits. He knew what to expect from them and they delivered every time. He said they did not apply pressure or have expectations of him and they did not keep moving the goal posts. He said that at that time he felt as if no one at all was listening to him and that they could not see that just being alive was killing him because he could no longer conform or 'be' what he was being told that he must be. He said that he started yelling and screaming abuse at us because when he spoke we never listened to him and he gave up trying speaking and started yelling instead. Now he understands that it was not that we were not listening to him it was that we did not understand what the problem was and at that time neither did he.

 

I was advised by those who home educate their special needs children to stop trying to force my son to learn or to produce work and to give him some time and some space to come to terms with himself and what his Aspergers Syndrome meant to him. Even though the professionals all said that that was the wrong thing to do I did it and it was the right thing to do for my son at that time. There is a great deal more to learning that reading and writing. I started to get my son to help me with the cooking and found that he loved cooking. We did life skills, self help skills, effective communication skills and we learnt about autism together. I do not consider those years to have been wasted. I know my son gained a great deal from them and at 16 he decided that he wanted to pick up where he left off academically and he did just that.

 

I have personally never seen autism as something that must be defeated, overcome, or a power struggle that I must win. If having diagnosis of autism is not at the very least an explanation for the way that someone is or on occasion can behave then why have a diagnosis in the first place. I think that it is Tony Attwood who says that is you know one autistic person then you only know one autistic person and having two sons with autism I fully understand what he means because they are as different as chalk and cheese. What is right for one of them is totally wrong for the other.

 

If you take away the battle of making your daughter learn in the accepted way does it make any difference to the way in which she behaves? I found taking my foot right off that pedal made a world of difference to our son and the way in which he behaved. I will never accept that we gave in to him we did what was right for him at that time. My son is now a wonderful guy who is a well rounded individual. He only ever had one friend and pretty much still has although he communicates well now with many people on line. He has always been able to communicate much easier in writing and it is a skill that he is now very good at in deed at the moment he is thinking about writing a book which he is going to call Living with 'normal' people!'

 

Cat

Edited by Cat

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Hi Everyone

 

This is a really interesting thread with lots of useful information and an interesting debate.

 

However please keep the topic on subject and continue offering constructive advice, guidance and feedback whilst bearing in mind that there is not always a solution which fits all circumstances.

 

Threads with differing opionions often lead to public arguments so please bear this in mind and lets not lose sight of the reason this forum exists :thumbs:

 

Regards

 

 

Lufty

 

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ok ,so she dissapeared last evening for an hour,luckily we are fairly rural so not too bad as she does that quite often,but normally just for a walk,however she even took her twilight book :wallbash: came back and what a surprise acted as though nothing had happened just waffled on about her things :wallbash: so eventually she asked for tv and comp back so said we needed to talk,got out of her the maths and history are fine but finds english too complicated but couldnt explain what she meant by complicated,but also said she doesnt like home education teacher and so wasnt prepared to do any work for him :wallbash: wants to just get work from school and do at home without going in.after reading all the new posts and finding myself getting extremely emotional gave her back tv and comp but said we must take one day at a time ( she is due in school this morning)but says not wanting to go .

with regards to any outside help ,no i get nothing ,yes feels like 24/7 job sometimes, only time off is perhaps couple of hours to go shopping and work outside the home for 2x2 hours a week,apart from that i home work which works fairly well as i can work round dd but the emotional side is there the whole time.

so will see what the day unfolds like and if we make it to school :tearful:

thanks for postings horrible to see that others been and going through same type of thing but in a weird way nice that there are so many people to help and understand what i'm going through,just dont want to be seen to be giving in to dd every whim,have told her we will start doing something even if for 1/2 hour each day when she is not twilighting,copm or tv,although her reaction was i'm not having a rota,but will try cooking or walking anything apart from the main obsessions,and as she has said she will do work if school send it will try( although not very easy) to see if school will give her some homework :robbie: ,right fingers crossed for scholl this am :thumbs::thumbs:

again many thanks.

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Hi, good luck with this morning, at school is there a school social worker or connextions, this could be where you could ask for social and recreational activities, the fact she just wondered off for an hour may be an indecation she needs space, problem a young girl in the middle of no where, and your not even sure where she is sadly isnt safe.

 

The rota is a new idea, she may be resistant at first, its still a change, the thing about a visual timetable is it is a structure and children like to be told what is next, when J went to recieve therapy we realised he didnt even know morning, afternoon and evening, no wonder he was all over the place, though he knew what 8am was he didnt understand the concept that in 20mins would be 8:20am, we worked on scedules and broke each task down in tiny achievable tasks, he now also has a visual timer, which gives children with special needs the concept of actual mins, we also have a calender clock with the time in large display, with day, date, time this has supported J with knowing time, date, and where in the day he is.

 

We use widgets so please do have a look at visual timetables, widgets is great because the child can even make the template and then help with creating it for the wall, or where ever it is required.

 

The rota/scedule/timtable is a building block to her day, lets her know were and when things are, the one reason my son was most resistant in following one was because when he followed it, there was more chance that he was going into school, it wasnt that the time table wasnt working, it was he was avioding the long term goal, of going into school.

 

What about for scedule/timetable there is two choices, so for the morning activity, there is a picture of an cookery activity, or photography, the fact there is a choice helps some children who seek control, or if you wanted her to do the cookery, have two recipies, are we making pizza for dinner or shall we make some cookies for after our sandwhiches.

 

I would consider taking all school based lessons out for now, get her into a routine, and like said do some life skills.

 

JsMum

 

 

 

 

 

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Following on from some of the points Bid makes, I agree with what she says about simplifying things. We have a similar problem with our daughter and youngest son, in that they both have a good use of language but their understanding is very poor. This is where I personally feel that higher functioning children are at the biggest disadvantage because it's hard to tell what they have understood. You describe how your daughter has wandered off without telling you, comes back in totally oblivious to how that action has impacted on you. This, in my experience is common, especially in ASD because they find it difficult to imagine or even think about how their action impacts on another person, unless it was done with intent. I know in the past I have thought why did she do that? It upsets me so much! Why doesn't she think how I feel? There layed the problem because for a long time I took the things she did personal, when actually, it wasn't. To get round this problem, we started with simple things to get her to understand simply how actions have consequences. Not always negative consequences I might add. We started with a light switch. Sounds daft I know. Asked her to press the switch and asked her what happened. She said, the light came on. So I said, what turned the light on, she said the switch, I said who pressed the switch? She said, I did. Pretty basic and obvious, but a simple way we used to get her starting to understand how her actions lead to consequences.

 

As for the prefering to email the friend rather than being on the phone. I totally understand that. I find it very hard to do small talk. I find it difficult to start a conversation and end one as well. Thank goodness for the internet. It might be that your daughter finds conversation difficult, and finds it easier to say what she has to say in writing. That's not a bad thing, because without knowing it she will be writing, spelling reading etc, which, when you think about it, is more constructive than verbal communication. My boys love talking to their friends online. It's all socialising. Not what some would consider socialising, but I think that it simplifies socialising for them.

 

Choosing arguments carefully is important. Like some of the other posters say, try not to look at what has been achieved, but the effort that has been put in. My daughter is one heck of a messy easter. I gave up a long time ago worrying about the mess she makes, but focused on what she was eating and the fact she was eating it. She sits to the table, I say, bottom on chair, feet on the floor and that's it. I can clean the mess up, but being drawn into a battle about the mess would not have been constructive. At the start I think you should take little steps and reward the fact your daughter has picked up a book rather than rewarding her after she has read it. I have also found it's much more constructive to say first I would like you to do xyz, then you can have xyz reward, in preference to saying if you do not do xyz you will go without xyz reward. Sometimes I have felt it helpful to say how much do you think you can do out of this task, then tailor the reward. We have found that using a timer can help, so they can actually visualise how long something is going to take. At first this was difficult because with our daughter she became focused on the timer running out rather than the task, but after a while she learnt that she was in control of what happened, and she learnt to ignore the timer but for only it's purpose!

 

I hope that all this information is not confusing you. You can see just how many people have experienced these difficulties due to the responses. You are not alone. I hope that helps you to know that as well. >:D<<'>

 

 

 

 

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thanks for post,well didnt make it to school,what a surprise,but have not turned it into battle ,dd said i suppose you are going to take comp and tv away now,so said no wouldnt but instead have phoned school and just on way to pick up todays work,have told dd when get back we will go out for 1/2 hour drive just to get out of house,which in its own way is a small step,cos normally she wont even go out.if it happens.and will consentrate on subtley turning her day round to do other things,well wish me luck!!

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thanks for post,well didnt make it to school,what a surprise,but have not turned it into battle ,dd said i suppose you are going to take comp and tv away now,so said no wouldnt but instead have phoned school and just on way to pick up todays work,have told dd when get back we will go out for 1/2 hour drive just to get out of house,which in its own way is a small step,cos normally she wont even go out.if it happens.and will consentrate on subtley turning her day round to do other things,well wish me luck!!

 

For what it is worth I think that you just did the right thing :thumbs: I know that there have already been a couple of posts advising that you pick your battles and I totally agree with that. 'You' could do with a break from the constant fighting with your DD. Taking your foot of the pedal for a while might just allow you and your daughter to enjoy time in each other's company. When you can both relax you might also find that your DD finds it easier to communicate her feelings to you. My son was always a whizz at maths and science but when it came to English he would always say that he did not know what to do. The teachers would say that he was being stupid because he did know what to do as he had been told what to do. I know now, but sadly not then, that my son’s autism meant that he found it very difficult to write about anything at all that he had not seen or done himself. This is down to problems that are in fact part of the triad of impairment, with imagination and rigid and fixed thinking. English was a nightmare for him and he hated every single lesson. However apart from saying that he did not know what to do he could not tell me what the real issue was.

 

My son also had a home tutor that he did not gel with and eventually he found it so difficult and stressful to even have them in our home that he ran away from them, only upstairs, but he tripped and fell and ended up with his arm in plaster for 8 weeks.

 

I do wish you luck with your daughter. I found that once my son had calmed down and realised that school work was no longer our biggest issue that he were able to compromise about other things, like going out, helping with the cooking and integrating back into the family.

 

Cat

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thanks for post,well didnt make it to school,what a surprise,but have not turned it into battle ,dd said i suppose you are going to take comp and tv away now,so said no wouldnt but instead have phoned school and just on way to pick up todays work,have told dd when get back we will go out for 1/2 hour drive just to get out of house,which in its own way is a small step,cos normally she wont even go out.if it happens.and will consentrate on subtley turning her day round to do other things,well wish me luck!!

 

That is good news. Little steps add up to big things. Sometimes just a change in tactics can be rewarding. You gave her a response that wasn't expected. It will be interesting to hear how the rest of the day goes. Good luck >:D<<'>

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thanks for post,well didnt make it to school,what a surprise,but have not turned it into battle ,dd said i suppose you are going to take comp and tv away now,so said no wouldnt but instead have phoned school and just on way to pick up todays work,have told dd when get back we will go out for 1/2 hour drive just to get out of house,which in its own way is a small step,cos normally she wont even go out.if it happens.and will consentrate on subtley turning her day round to do other things,well wish me luck!!

 

Like others have said, little steps.

 

Well done, just turning a day or a morning round is a real achievement :thumbs:

 

Bid :)

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Good luck - I hope you have a good day today. :)

 

As Cat said, if you can both relax she might be able to talk to you about what's going on and be more willing to work with you and others to find a way forward.

 

K x

 

 

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I agree that a visual timetable would be useful to reduce her anxiety (which in turn should reduce her need for her obsession). If she is reluctant to use one, just put one up on the wall where she can see it, and make a show of consulting it yourself regularly, and she will probably end up looking at it anyway! You could ask if she wants to remove the picture from the timetable, once that task has been done, as it can be quite therapeutic.

 

Giving her choices between pre-selected things is a good way to make her think she is in control, when really you are. You could have pictures of 5 things to be done that week (eg: cooking, swimming, a walk, etc) and she could choose which one she wants to do each day.

 

My instinct would be to let her have a set amount of time on the PC each day, and then let her earn a token for extra PC time by doing her school work. You then do not need to feel you are depriving her - it is her choice.

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My instinct would be to let her have a set amount of time on the PC each day, and then let her earn a token for extra PC time by doing her school work. You then do not need to feel you are depriving her - it is her choice.

 

I think that is a fabulous idea :notworthy::thumbs:

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thanks for all the support.we didnt manage to get out she chose to do some cooking instead! but thats something,except she then wants to eat most of the cakes herself,not good! did pick up work from school and have just managed to get her off compter to go do it should only take her 20-30mins,read 7 pages of a book( only half pages ) and then answer some questions,so we'll see how it goes,spoke to home ed teacher today as he sent letter saying as dd wont meet he is handing it back to the school for them to refer to area education office,not sure what that means and he wasnt particularly helpful,acted as though nose out of joint because dd wont see him!!!just requested that we give books back and that was the end of his intervention!so do i wait to see what school do or do i go to them,the letter i got was a copy that he also sent to school and area ed office?have got meeting with school at end of month .and will try something else for dd tommorow!!so compared to yesterday has been fairy quite,up til now anyway.

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Ahh but you can use cooking as a maths lesson! Weighing, measuring quantities etc, it's all maths. If she is reading a recipe she is following instrcutions and reading as well. There are many ways of swinging a cat as the saying goes! Glad you had a better afternoon. >:D<<'>

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Ahh but you can use cooking as a maths lesson! Weighing, measuring quantities etc, it's all maths. If she is reading a recipe she is following instrcutions and reading as well. There are many ways of swinging a cat as the saying goes! Glad you had a better afternoon. >:D<<'>

 

 

Cookery class could amount to many lessons, maths, english as your havin to read and follow instructions if your following a recipie, science, chemistry, and of course not to mention how this will increase self esteem, confidence, interaction, coperation and maybe expressions, especially if you get her licking the bowl.

 

Life skills can be more effective and last long term and stay with her forever. Not to mention the happy memories, what about a scrap book for pictures and memories and keep a log.

 

JsMum

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thanks again for mail,day not too bad although still having little battle for her to do homework i picked up this morning,but to be truthful am all done with battling for today,she says she will do it later,i've told her it has to go back tommorow,so we will see,was told by someone to try kalms for her but have decided to take them myself felt better for it last night so trying again tonight!!!and will see what tommorow brings,has already said not going to school so will try and get her to do something,not sure what but anything.have also decided to look out some work books for her,found bbc website had keystage 3 work on it and got her to do a few maths sums! til i turned my back and it changed to twilight,funny that!! any one know where i can find out info on which keystage 3 books she needs there seem to be sooo many different ones?

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oh yes she licked the bowl clean!!!but must admit did cheat and use packet mix,dont always but was handy,but yes she did read instructions and do it all herself,except the washing up!

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oh yes she licked the bowl clean!!!but must admit did cheat and use packet mix,dont always but was handy,but yes she did read instructions and do it all herself,except the washing up!

 

 

lol we use packets sometimes especially the cadburys buttons, for now its about doing something that brings back routine and a bit of fun, Im glad she licked the bowl, I was thinking about the Kalms for me too, especially for when I take my next driving test, (october) do they really work,

 

JsMum

 

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well they seemed to work last night but was extremely stressed,dont seem to have done much today,but are supposed to take 3x a day,my sister-in -law said she gave them to her ds who has aspergers( out in america) and going back a few years ,when he was about 7 to sort out his sleep routine,but she said it took about 6 months,he still takes now when he gets angry( now 13 years old)so we thought we would try but my dd looked at them as if i was trying to poison her!! so i'll use them!worth a try.

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i can understand some of what your daughter is going through because i went through something similar but at 15. i also refused to do my work, mostly because i was being lazy :oops: (but noone noticed, my parents evidently had other things on their mind at the time). i wasn't given any out of school support.

the WHEN and THEN comment bid made a while back is a really good one. everyone needs a little incentive, especially when you're feeling down and out of control. make the THEN bigger than the WHEN at first to get her doing the things you want - ie , when you do 5 minutes of maths work, then you can watch the twilight dvd without me nagging at you (make sure you've taken the dvd first!). then gradually build up the when and later decrease the then.

 

the comment about english is something i can really relate to. i can't get my words out of my brain into written form, but i didn't know this until someone talked to me about it, i couldn't work out why it just wasn't working. i'm very bright, and have a pretty good grasp of english (both lit and lang) but i can't write things down. i found that talking rather than writing worked. you couldl get her a digital voice recorder so that she could talk her book report etc rather than writing it, then at first you couldl type it for her, then get her to do some building up to her doing it all (its going to be a long process).

 

refusing to see visitors? perhaps use a when and then for that... reward her heavily for just staying in the room, then increase your expectations gradually.

 

i know it all sounds a bit childish for a teenager but the simple things often work the best. we do a lot of this work with the foster kids (of all ages) as they always come in with absolutely no self confidence or self control and have to learn that doing things is better than not doing them.

 

you could also be cunning about getting her education in by involving her intrest(s). i dont know how able she is academically but i know twilight pretty well ( i alo constantly reread the books) so some of these might be of use. they're obviously narrow in topic but at first at least the point is to get her doing anything rather than nothing art is easy - draw scenery/characters from the book/design promo posters for the new film. history she can research the bio of stephenie meyer, the cast of the film/history of vampires etc. geography... Forks (where its set) is a real town, she could learn about that, perhaps produce a tourist leaflet. maths and science are more tricky, can't really think what to do with them. if shes really obsessed by it she might be able to do multi-part tasks such as an entire project on forks producing a tourist leaflet, researching facts /getting photos etc. if shes into more detail you can do things like researching mental institutions at the time when alice was human, researching the souths history in the time of jasper... i know it sounds like its encouraging the obsession but if its already there then its just widening it really

 

have you tried rescue remedy? i swear by it, and now everyone in my family uses it (the orange sweets are the best for me as they dont really taste of much) it works really well to calml you down and reduce the stress response

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Sorry :unsure:

I know I'm probably going to be accused of being judgemental or something here, but I really am confused and, honestly, however people are choosing to interpret my posts I am trying to help.

But looking at the posts made by the OP today (and forgive me if i have missed something) her dd didn't go to school, hasn't done her homework, has had usual access to her computer and tv and has been rewarded with the opportunity to cook and eat a batch of cakes for herself?

 

Couple that with the 'resignation' of her home ed tutor (and tbh I can fully appreciate why his response to the situation might have seemed less than enthusiastic) and i honestly cannot see how any of today's events have helped the situation.

 

If anyone can explain that - rather than just making accusations that I am being judgemental or making assumptions - i would be really grateful, because if I am getting hold of the wrong end of the stick I'm completely at a loss to understand where?

 

L&P

 

(a very confused)

 

BD

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in reply to the above posting( and being new to all this i apologise but i dont know your circumstances) but yes i suupose that if you look at it it may look as though i've just given in to all my dd wants,infact the problem i have is a situation that i myself do not understand properly,and no dx as yet.i have been dealing with a worsening situation with dd for probably nigh on 3 years,including in this the teenage hormones ,i have got to the piont where punishments have no effect whatsoever so there fore i am trying to get advise from peolpe that may have been here to try other tacts( and thankyou for all the support from others)because living at home these days is a bit like a living nightmare so it is great for me as a newbie to get ideas from people that have tried and done these things.i just need another way of going round things because taking away and threats have no effect,have spent her entire 13 years saying dont draw on walls( 2 siblings got the message and dont do it) its only now that i'm beginning to know what i' m dealing with that I have come to realise that i can say til blue in the face dont do things and she's not listening, and that the same things apply to homework etc,basically she shuts off in her own world and then just talks about her subject.

so yes i can see what you are thinking but for me i've got to try different things,otherwise it will be me that needs the help.as said have 2 other siblings who need me as well so sometimes things have to be done just to get through the day,and there is no way i can phyisically get my daughter to school,so at the moment it is the softly softly approach,dont get me wrong she doesnt get everything she wants and yes i am still pushing on the homework( with a small reward at the end)although still not having much effect but i do think i need another way round apart from taking things away,maybe they will work and maybe not but in desparate circumstances i will try other things,so thankyou for your post,and an even bigger thanks for all that have given me some hope!!with regards to your comment about the home ed teacher no i do not see his view ,he has dealt with problem children of all kinds and i cant believe that my dd is the worst,so it would have been nice to have had a bit of support instead of 'i'm washing my hands of the situation'.but thats his choice .

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It is possible that your daughter is being controlling - it is equally possible that she is really desperately struggling - as her Mum, you know her best so can only act on your view not ours. I have made mistakes in interpreting my son's behaviour and its causes - we all do. Most of the time I think I'm pretty accurate - that's the best I can do. You can only do your best.

Good luck.

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I can see alot has gone on since i last posted, i didnt realise that things had got so heated. I feel like this is a really hard situation to advice on as your dd is at a probable all time low, she needs your help to get her out of it, does she like being where she is, has she ever opened up and said she's not happy, 'sorry if i missed it and someone already asked that'! Not much advice to offer but dont feel to discouraged as there has obviously been many in your situation before and who truly understand, so i am sure you are not the 'worse case' as the home tutor so kindly indicated! Carry on as you are little achievements to get her off comp, it will all add up to an eventual change. My ds2 is like your daughter in that he does not respond to any kind of discipline, some children just dont, so we just show him plenty of love and understanding and when he is willing to talk about his behaviour we tell him that we are very upset by the things he did but understand that he finds it difficult to cope sometimes but we want to help him, he responds to love more than discipline, all my children do. So love her and she will know you want to help and you will meet halfway soon :-) maria x

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is dd happy? well thats the things yes shes happy ,when doing her 'things' but as soon as anyone says lets do____ thats it different child ,and the thing i find difficult to cope with is the fact that she says if we all left her alone to be by herself she would be even happier,so shes not depressed at all,she just wants to be by herself doing her own thing ,basically in her own little world,which is why she goes out side at night when she knows theres no-one about to disturb her etc,with regards to a diagnosis i have explained that we think it maybe asp( purley on paed say that this may encourage her to go to assessment) but at moment she says not her and doesnt have a problem,so shes only not happy if i suggest going out or doing anything apart from the obsessions.

BUT ONE HAPPY MUM looked in her room this am and during the night she HAS done the homework,so the reward will be given( only a nail varnish but something she was after)so will carry on in this vein not always money rewards but thats what i had.

will also try as suggested trying to get her to do info for twilight,although she does lots of writing but no-one is allowed to see it!!!and she doesnt like being praised for anything she has done.so will work on that one.

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Hi again JL :)

 

My son was never a school refuser (he was taken out of school on medical advice as he had a severe breakdown) so I can't really offer any advice from that perspective.

 

But I do have experience of having a teenager at home out of school for 6 months before he went to a residential special school.

 

I think sometimes it is the right thing to take a step back from confrontation in order to re-establish a more positive atmosphere...already you've had a real turn around with doing a positive activity with you (cooking) and now she's done her homework! That's brilliant news :D

 

With regard to home tutors, my son did have two for the last 10 weeks or so before he went to the special school. The Ed Psych decided that it was best just to pick the two subjects he enjoyed most (Maths and Art), and we had two lovely women who came twice a week I think for a couple of hours. We were lucky that because he had a dx, they picked one tutor who had experience of working with AS young people, and the other was very quiet, gentle and open to learning about ASD although she didn't have direct experience. Overall it worked very well for us. I wonder if you've had a bad experience with your DD's home tutor because he didn't really have much experience of ASD?

 

I know I keep going on about this, but I found that keeping to a good home routine really did help structure my son's time. We had meals at set times, and I did try and factor in trips out. My son didn't want to go out either, prefering to retreat into his own world too. Does your DD like swimming perhaps, as I also think it's good to try some exercise. Or mabe quiet walks with you in the country or a local park?

 

I also know how hard it is if you have other children (I have 4) as you can't focus solely on your child with ASD/other difficulties...I used to sit and cry in the car after I'd dropped the others off at school because i felt physically and emotionally torn to pieces between them all.

 

Hang in there, and feel good that you've already had some really good positives to build on :thumbs:

 

Bid :)

Edited by bid

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in reply to the above posting( and being new to all this i apologise but i dont know your circumstances) but yes i suupose that if you look at it it may look as though i've just given in to all my dd wants,infact the problem i have is a situation that i myself do not understand properly,and no dx as yet.i have been dealing with a worsening situation with dd for probably nigh on 3 years,including in this the teenage hormones ,i have got to the piont where punishments have no effect whatsoever so there fore i am trying to get advise from peolpe that may have been here to try other tacts( and thankyou for all the support from others)because living at home these days is a bit like a living nightmare so it is great for me as a newbie to get ideas from people that have tried and done these things.i just need another way of going round things because taking away and threats have no effect,have spent her entire 13 years saying dont draw on walls( 2 siblings got the message and dont do it) its only now that i'm beginning to know what i' m dealing with that I have come to realise that i can say til blue in the face dont do things and she's not listening, and that the same things apply to homework etc,basically she shuts off in her own world and then just talks about her subject.

so yes i can see what you are thinking but for me i've got to try different things,otherwise it will be me that needs the help.as said have 2 other siblings who need me as well so sometimes things have to be done just to get through the day,and there is no way i can phyisically get my daughter to school,so at the moment it is the softly softly approach,dont get me wrong she doesnt get everything she wants and yes i am still pushing on the homework( with a small reward at the end)although still not having much effect but i do think i need another way round apart from taking things away,maybe they will work and maybe not but in desparate circumstances i will try other things,so thankyou for your post,and an even bigger thanks for all that have given me some hope!!with regards to your comment about the home ed teacher no i do not see his view ,he has dealt with problem children of all kinds and i cant believe that my dd is the worst,so it would have been nice to have had a bit of support instead of 'i'm washing my hands of the situation'.but thats his choice .

 

Hi again-

 

firstly. congratulaions on the homework! :thumbs::thumbs:

Brilliant!! :thumbs:

 

I've typed two big replies to your post above but have had two powercuts when 90% of the way through them. Perhaps it's God

 

trying to tell me something? She's never done that before but you never know!

I'll try to come back on the points you've raised later, God/SEEBoard willing. :)

 

Meanwhile, I'd like if i may to clarify something regarding the couple of times 'heated' has been mentioned in relation to

 

this thread... Looking back over my posts the only 'heat' I can see arises within posts made by other members in reply to

 

my posts or where I have defended myself from accusations/suggestions/assumptions made within those other member's posts.

 

I've asked people to clarify where they feel I'm making assumptions etc but so far that hasn't happened, so i don't know

 

what else I can do/say(?) I hope that can be 'dropped' now as any response to that can only derail the thread again and i

 

don't want that to happen, but looking back through my posts (ignoring the 'asides' to other members who have taken issue

 

with their content) i can't see anything that is fundamentally at odds with anything anyone else is saying(?)

 

As I say, i'll come back on the rest of your post later if my electricity stays on, but would reiterate that i am not a

 

stranger to any of the difficulties you are experiencing.

 

L&P

 

BD

:D

 

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